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Alerts vs Nightwave


General_Durandal
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Alerts: 4 Nitain alerts every day
(you can get all 4 if you are awake when they show up)
Nightwave: 5 Nitain for 15 Wolf Creds
(at Rank 3, 6, 12, 16, 20, and 24, you get 50 NW creds, and 15 more creds each rank over 30)
(you can go up 4 ranks every week, maybe more if you find lots of fugitives)

Alerts: Multiple Helmet alerts every day.
(likely one you already have, or you'll miss the one you're looking for,)
(but new helmets usually show up the first time in an alert in the first week)
Nightwave: Each week there is a random assortment of helmets you can buy for 35 NW creds each.

Just now, General_Durandal said:

We are on the last week of Wolf of Saturn Six and Hydrin's alt helmet didn't show up once.


Alerts: Can have Forma Blueprints
(rare though)
Nightwave: Haven't seen Formas in the NW shop yet.
(but there are some bundles at higher NW ranks)

Alerts: Can have Catalyst Blueprints
(rare though)
Nightwave: Catalysts are 75 NW creds each
(you buy a built one, so you don't need to use resources to build it)

Alerts: Can have Reactor Blueprints
(rare though)
Nightwave: Reactors are 75 NW creds each
(you buy a built one, so you don't need to use resources to build it)

Alerts: Each mission gives 1 item from a large list.
(able to get 4 nitain, multiple helmets, and rarely a forma or catalyst bp each day)
Nightwave: Do many tasks which can include doing multiple missions, including sorties.
(Get 1 helmet and 5 Nitain every week, or save creds and get 1 Catalyst or Reactor every 2 weeks)
(no formas other then the high rank rewards that many won't get do to long work days/weeks),
(no formas, kubrow eggs, or kavat dna have shown up in the shop either)

~

Alerts: More rewarding with less work,
with a high chance of missing what you want because the alert might show up when you are sleeping, at work or school.
Good for anyone with patience enough to wait for the item they want to come back again if they missed it.

Nightwave: Less rewarding with more work,
with a medium chance to miss-out on what you're looking for because you might not have enough NW credits.
Bad for people with Jobs/school/collage that can't play Warframe all day every day since you need to do everything to get things associated with alerts.

~

I think Warframe should have both.
No real point removing Alerts just because Nightwave is a thing now.
 

Edited by General_Durandal
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Yeah, they can bring back Alerts. Just make them only 5000~ credit rewards and a couple hundred Endo so if you miss them it's no big deal.

Keep the really valuable stuff tied up in Nightwave, though the devs could stand to rearrange the rewards a bit.

Edited by TheGrimCorsair
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I'm here just hoping they switch to the "Cred per Rank" system a lot of players have asked for.

Edited by Tangent-Valley
Got the initial math wrong. Realized I didn't need it to get my statement out.
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How about we wait to see how the next Nightwave will change from WoS6? The old alert system was utter garbage for those of us working / studying most of the day. It was only ever rewarding for people playing the game all day long and rarely for anyone else.

Edited by TheRealShade
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I don't think we need to have alerts at all. Only no lifer that dedicates his life to Warframe can fully benefit by alerts. Alerts has no sign before it announces, and only last for up to 1 hour(or two hours if it is reactor/catalyst).

We are human being that need to sleep 1/3 of the daily cycle and need to work for 1/3 of the daily cycle, so even if you spend all the free times to Warframe you end up with losing 2/3 of the chance to get alert. Alert is not locally given so DE can't focus the alert to 'peak time', so it means people are usually lose the chance to get catalyst/reactor/nitain alerts even if it is luckily come out.

And in order to play alert we must need to access for Warframe - that needs either a PC or specific console depend on your server. Not even mobile games(that is far easier to access during a small amount of spare time) of nowdays are not stupid enough to put such a ridiculous system.

 

Perhaps Nightwave is not so good, but, not even a single idea seems worse than alert - unless you want Warframe plays you.

Edited by DroopingPuppy
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You missed that Alerts had a chance at giving 5 Kavat genetic codes. Rare but still.

No chance from nightwave.

And those aura mods seemed to be more probable with alerts. Now there's only a few of them appearing every week. Every week now I'm hoping to see energy siphon and/or the melee mod. Previously I'd just pay attention to the current alerts.

 

On the other hand - we got some free slots and other fun stuff from Nightwave. You wouldn't see those on alerts.

 

Nightwave is good, but some details need a rework.

There's some 3-4 weeks left with this chapter and it's the first try at the topic, so there's bound to be some imperfections. High hopes next one will be better

Edited by Drakeley
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4 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

How about we wait to see how the next Nightwave will change from WoS6? The old alert system was utter garbage for those of us working / studying most of the day. It was only ever rewarding for people playing the game all day long and rarely for anyone else.

And your opinion completely conflicts with the opinions of people who work those long hours.

 

My husband works 12 hour shifts, and thinks Alerts was by far and wide vastly superior to NW in structure, and never hatched the Alerts system to get anything whatsoever. He played in 2 hour spurts once or twice a week. Won't touch WF with a 10 ft pole now, on account of NW being a complete waste of grind time he doesn't have, to accumulate over weeks for the same damn reward he could have got in a quick Alert. And he's a Founder, no less, played when the game was much less optimal than just having Alerts to whine about. When Founders are turned off, it's an issue. They, better than any of the rest of us, know the barrel-scraping the game has been through before and see writing on the wall more clearly.

 

My clanmates are similarly employed or work 2 jobs, and the feeling is mutual -- Alerts was superior in structure, they got more in less time and missed much less goodies. Nobody's logging in anymore, and those were rather long-term players as well. Nice job, DE.

 

We all feel NW shortchanges the hard working long-hours-clocked-in players whereas Alerts did not. The Alerts cycle was far faster than the NW cycle is. Miss something this week, wait a week, it'll be back. Miss enough NW junk because of, I dunno, working to pay the bills and stuff being more important than an aimless grind is, and you miss those rewards, period. Who knows then THOSE will cycle back in. If ever.

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49 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

And your opinion completely conflicts with the opinions of people who work those long hours.

 

My husband works 12 hour shifts, and thinks Alerts was by far and wide vastly superior to NW in structure, and never hatched the Alerts system to get anything whatsoever. He played in 2 hour spurts once or twice a week. Won't touch WF with a 10 ft pole now, on account of NW being a complete waste of grind time he doesn't have, to accumulate over weeks for the same damn reward he could have got in a quick Alert. And he's a Founder, no less, played when the game was much less optimal than just having Alerts to whine about. When Founders are turned off, it's an issue. They, better than any of the rest of us, know the barrel-scraping the game has been through before and see writing on the wall more clearly.

 

My clanmates are similarly employed or work 2 jobs, and the feeling is mutual -- Alerts was superior in structure, they got more in less time and missed much less goodies. Nobody's logging in anymore, and those were rather long-term players as well. Nice job, DE.

 

We all feel NW shortchanges the hard working long-hours-clocked-in players whereas Alerts did not. The Alerts cycle was far faster than the NW cycle is. Miss something this week, wait a week, it'll be back. Miss enough NW junk because of, I dunno, working to pay the bills and stuff being more important than an aimless grind is, and you miss those rewards, period. Who knows then THOSE will cycle back in. If ever.

Well, only people who already farms enough catalyst and reactor by alert may say like that, because they no longer need to await an alert to get it and already forget about the agony what alerts are caused. But you don't consider the situation of the newbies.

Man, wait a catalyst/reactor/nitain/Vauban parts for month and month was like a hell. Although I have a stock of spare catalyst/reactor/nitain enough to sustain for years, Vauban and and enough auras, by spend around two full years, but I remember these days when I have to await month or even years for it. Sometimes I have to wake up in order to farm a catalyst/reactor during sleep, not just once. Far more times I have lose the chance to do because I am out of my PC by either works, go out or sleeping. Alert may forcing me to quit the other games and enter Warframe as well. It was a terrible nightmare actually.

I don't think that forcing the misery to the newcommers is a sane idea at all. Mistakes to introduce ridiculous system such as alert may happen, but in order to advance we need to discard the cancer within.

Edited by DroopingPuppy
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4 hours ago, Drakeley said:

You missed that Alerts had a chance at giving 5 Kavat genetic codes. Rare but still.

Yup. Breeding Kavats is going to be a massive pain in the ass now, because the Derelict Kavats STILL have a terrible drop rate for their Genetic Codes even with the semi-recent increase. Why was THAT not carried over to the Nightwave store?

 

4 hours ago, Drakeley said:

And those aura mods seemed to be more probable with alerts. Now there's only a few of them appearing every week. Every week now I'm hoping to see energy siphon and/or the melee mod. Previously I'd just pay attention to the current alerts.

This absolutely infuriates me, personally. Why turn Auras into Baro Ki'Teer? Sure, your chance of getting the precise right aura you wanted from Alerts was difficult, but a selection of 4 Auras refreshed every week with seemingly no filtering for duplicates is almost offensive. Either offer more auras per batch or refresh them more often, because spending 6 weeks not getting the aura I'm after is starting to get annoying.

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16 hours ago, Nyx219 said:

And your opinion completely conflicts with the opinions of people who work those long hours.

 

My husband works 12 hour shifts, and thinks Alerts was by far and wide vastly superior to NW in structure, and never hatched the Alerts system to get anything whatsoever. He played in 2 hour spurts once or twice a week. Won't touch WF with a 10 ft pole now, on account of NW being a complete waste of grind time he doesn't have, to accumulate over weeks for the same damn reward he could have got in a quick Alert. And he's a Founder, no less, played when the game was much less optimal than just having Alerts to whine about. When Founders are turned off, it's an issue. They, better than any of the rest of us, know the barrel-scraping the game has been through before and see writing on the wall more clearly.

 

My clanmates are similarly employed or work 2 jobs, and the feeling is mutual -- Alerts was superior in structure, they got more in less time and missed much less goodies. Nobody's logging in anymore, and those were rather long-term players as well. Nice job, DE.

 

We all feel NW shortchanges the hard working long-hours-clocked-in players whereas Alerts did not. The Alerts cycle was far faster than the NW cycle is. Miss something this week, wait a week, it'll be back. Miss enough NW junk because of, I dunno, working to pay the bills and stuff being more important than an aimless grind is, and you miss those rewards, period. Who knows then THOSE will cycle back in. If ever.

This right here, the number one thing kids just don't seem to understand.

With Alerts if you miss something you just wait for it to come back in another alert.
With Nightwave you need to do everything that pops up so you can get enough NW creds to get anything you want.
There was several things I wanted on week 1 I couldn't get because I didn't have enough NW creds that haven't shown up again yet.

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I posted this in the official feedback thread, but just to add a voice to the limited time player (work/school/college/whathaveyou)'s side, I'll repost here too, in support of:

17 hours ago, Nyx219 said:
21 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

How about we wait to see how the next Nightwave will change from WoS6? The old alert system was utter garbage for those of us working / studying most of the day. It was only ever rewarding for people playing the game all day long and rarely for anyone else.

And your opinion completely conflicts with the opinions of people who work those long hours.

 

Since my friend is new to the game (Just reached Doer on Fortuna, thanks to my urging, but unranked on Cetus, for instance) he has missed many elite challenges, and hasn't had time or access to others. He's not even going to reach 50% - (nowhere near the 60% people love to say you only need to get for the mid-rank of 30), I estimate (his current rank is the first Kuva bundle (15), that he reached tonight, and spent it all rolling his only good riven to receive nothing good in return.) (He has finished the star chart and has ExcalUmbra with several, but not all planets completely unlocked)

He's missing a LOT of challenges.

My roommate barely gets up to 10hrs a WEEK to play (many times less, and almost exclusively at hours that I cannot play with him, as I work 2 jobs) sometimes we can play a couple hours a week together. He works full time and is going to college. He LOVES Warframe almost too much (he already bought the Mesa Prime Access when starting out, and several PS4 bundles/plat packs, to the point that our finances are strained and I regret introducing him to the game.)

He min-max's frames more than I do, watching Youtube videos and such, whereas I wiki things and experiment with builds that cater to my unique play style (melee 95% of the time, guns rarely, very exploratory, but quick - so my builds focus more on utility and speed than raw power and survivability)

He is going to miss out on the Umbra Forma that would greatly help his builds, whereas I'll certainly get it, but have no good use for it. I highly doubt they'll be tradeable, but I'd still keep mine for a time when we can obtain a useful amount, later, in the New War & beyond.

Nightwave has been practically useless to him because he's making little progress, and barely any Wolf creds, despite all the chores he has done.

Nightwave is practically useless to me, since I have almost everything I'll ever need from the cred shop that I obtained in the Alerts previously, but Nightwave is missing nearly everything I cared to get from Alerts (rare resources mostly).

As I've said before, there's something seriously wrong with this picture, given the goals of the Nightwave system.
 

Missing a week or two (which is highly likely during finals for my friend, or just wanting to play another game to the exclusion of Warframe to take a break, for me,) in his case, would certainly mean missing out. There is no "make-up" mechanic in place here for his situation. It may not bother him that much right now, that he missed an Umbra Forma, since he doesn't realize the potential it has for his builds yet... but it's sorta out of his hands anyway, as he couldn't work toward it given his circumstances anyway. If I were him, I'd be resenting the Nightwave system, and it may hit him once he realizes this, later.

His attitude is to not care about Nightwave at all and just ignores it for the most part, since he knows he'll never get the good rewards from it.

My attitude toward Nightwave is to do as much as I can, grind out as many fugitives as I can, to get the rank 30 rewards, and then ignore Nightwave from that point on.

Hmm...

Ignore Nightwave if you can.... that's what I'm seeing.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
(updated my roommate's event rank results from today's 1.5hrs play time)
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18 hours ago, Drakeley said:

You missed that Alerts had a chance at giving 5 Kavat genetic codes. Rare but still.

No chance from nightwave.

And those aura mods seemed to be more probable with alerts. Now there's only a few of them appearing every week. Every week now I'm hoping to see energy siphon and/or the melee mod. Previously I'd just pay attention to the current alerts.

 

On the other hand - we got some free slots and other fun stuff from Nightwave. You wouldn't see those on alerts.

 

Nightwave is good, but some details need a rework.

There's some 3-4 weeks left with this chapter and it's the first try at the topic, so there's bound to be some imperfections. High hopes next one will be better

Added eggs and dna to the post.

The rank rewards are where it's at,
but peeps with long work/school/collage days/weeks won't be able to get everything even if they use all their free time grinding.

The game is still a beta, so here's hoping the next one is better and more accessible for people that can't play warframe every day.

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I don't want DE to bring back alerts. I want DE to add the best traits of Alerts to Nightwave.

Alerts were nice because they were very non-comittal. You could start and finish any alert in a few minutes. They SUCKED because if you weren't able to play at just the right time, it would be an unknown amount of time before you could get what you missed.

Nightwave is nice because you can make gradual and guaranteed progress toward a specific reward. It SUCKS because it operates on a rigid schedule and requires way too much time commitment. I'm not about to religiously complete every challenge, and I resent the pressure to continue playing if I don't want to under threat of being unable to reach my goal before a deadline.

We need to trim out the negative aspects and combine the positive aspects of both systems. The drop-in-drop-out aspect of Alerts, and the non-RNG progression of Nightwave.

EDIT: Yes, I know that only 60% completion is needed for all rewards. That's still 60% completion over many weeks; between work, errands, and other games I am not able or willing to put THAT much time into Warframe exclusively.

Edited by DiabolusUrsus
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Alerts: Nightmare alerts with specific reward like Blaze mod. Nightmare alerts show up every day.
Nightwave: Only one week of "Night Terror" asking to do 10 nightmare missions, and is back to random mod rewards from each Nightmare mission itself.

Alerts: Synthula, Kavat Genetic Codes, and other materials
Nightwave: nothing... Back to farming materials and the need to have Synthula blueprint found in Dojo. I have 108 Synthula from alerts, with no Synthula blueprint.

 

Dojo and Xbox One without Gold subscription, unable to access Dojo? Without Dojo, this locks out some blueprints. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/966579-accessing-the-dojo-on-xb1/

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Alerts WITH Nightwave (Changes to incorporate both)

Nightwave now has Nightwave Alerts (originally I thought Fugitive Alerts, but this is keeping it non-themed to work with future seasons)
(Nora is broadcasting gossip and locations of fugitives and possible activities of these groups that are up to no good, so we Tenno can hear her and act on it if we so desire)

Now, we get an alert that there's a group of fugitives doing X on planet X. Sure would be nice if some kind Tenno stopped them. Or maybe the Corpus or Grineer have information about the whereabouts of the Wolf, but they're not in a sharing mood...
(I've listed a few other options in other posts, making use of Capture, Spy, Mobile Defense, etc, as mission objectives themed to the series. Nora would take over for the Lotus/Ordtus messages.)

3 of these Nightwave Alerts would need to be completed in "chains" (like Invasions and Sorties), opening up a Wolf Assassination Alert OR access to a Wolf Beacon in the Cred Shop.
There could be 3 main types of Nightwave Alert Chains:
* Acts of Kindness, Acts of Defiance, Acts of Generosity...

Some of the Acts of Kindness and Generosity could be new Alert types based loosely on current "challenges", focused on non-combat objectives (Mining, Fishing, opening lockers, finding mods), while Acts of Defiance are mostly the tried and true common mission types we all know.

These alerts could have rare resource rewards as extra briber... I mean incentives... Nora likes incentivizing. (these would be ALL the things the old Alerts used to reward - resources, credits - in larger amounts - , cosmetics, blueprints, mods - including the things Nightwave now has in its shop, just in case schedules don't work out, as an RNG equalizer - though, with the next changes, even that seems unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to have more options!)

Nightwave Alerts with their "incentives" would stay active for at least 6hrs, up to 12-24hrs before the "incentives" and/or objectives change. (While rare resources and credits could be offered for the minimum 6hrs, there could be a Capture for 12hrs with an Orokin Catalyst incentive, changing to an Interception for the same catalyst for the next 12hrs - or quicker 20min-1hr objective changes (like invasion mission types change every so often) to bring back the old alert rotation feel, while keeping the "Incentive" the same the whole time so you have all that time to run a mission to get it.

Now, it doesn't matter so much WHEN the Alert appears that you've been waiting for... no waking up in the middle of the night to catch the 20minute-2hr window. I'd even propose a way to "tag" an alert as "accepted" and that would stop it from disappearing until you run it. This "tagging" would be possible from in game, or the app or the official website, so people at work or on schedules that fall even outside of these generous windows still wouldn't miss out.)
Once a Wolf Assassination Alert has been unlocked, a new Nightwave Alert chain can open, letting people choose to go after the wolf, or ignore him. This would open up targeted farming of the Wolf and his sledge weapon parts drops.

* Nightwave Alerts would always contain Fugitives (or the series' currently theme'd enemy)
* Non-nightwave missions would never contain Fugitives or the Wolf.

This would let people gear up for the battles specifically, or put on low stuff to rank up, making the best use of their affinity gaining time, rather than having max weapons on hand "Just in case" the big bad Wolf shows up to ruin their day.

Nightwave Alerts would reward Wave-Cred. (not Event-styled ranks - prices in the shop would have to be rebalanced or give the shop a stock that limits purchases during each "series" and "re-stocks" when the event would have previously reset to a new series.)

Wave Cred would not expire. (steady progression at your own pace, even if RNG doesn't favor you with the above alert changes. This only really makes the "Series" restocked items obtainable day-one of each series, with evergreen rewards being the primary cred-sink.)

Nightwave Shop would not rotate. (no snooze you lose, not having enough credits when the item is in the shop and not returning before the event ends, wiping out your creds that you were saving just to get that thing.)

One forgotten benefit of Alerts lost with Nightwave: Alerts used to be a way to find a quick PUG all doing the same nodes. That's only really the home of Invasions now. (I only ever really PUG'd for reactors/catalysts in Interception or Archwing missions, but others PUG all day...)

 

There ya go, Alert system fixed, Nightwave system fixe... better.

Most current Nightwave "Challenges" would be moved to the master of sadisti... condescendi... demandi... um... Challenges... Cephalon Simaris studying the limits of Tenno prowess, and the Arbitrary Arbiters in their Arbitrations that just scream to be the handers-out of obscure ordeals and self-righteously judging the efforts of the Tenno and their merit of reward.

~*~

Still considering how to work in the Nightwave standing reward ladder. It's so much more "event-like" rather than "core game system", that it's difficult.

I'd rather not see the tiers locked behind Wolf kills. The "Nightwave Alerts" could provide standing as well as cred.

 

I'll keep thinking about it, and post/edit at some point. It's late (after midnight now.)

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
stray terminology artifact: change "Fugitive Alert" reference to the less series-specific "Nightwave Alert"
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2019-04-13 at 1:24 AM, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

-snip-

 

I was thinking along those lines too. 

Simply put, add nightwave alerts that give a reward that might not be in the 'loot table' for that week.

So You'd have 5 new daily missions each day, you can 'mark' two of them to do later (like you suggested).

So 5 missions

3 are guaranteed wolf credits with the ability for DE to make them into special alerts for forma, potatoes etc.

1 is a guaranteed wolf spawn and the hardest mission of them all (so.. level 35 enemies, right DE?)

1 is a medium difficulty mission that gives a reward that you could buy with credits in the nightwave 'store'. 

As for wolf credits existing past each season, I'm half and half on.

On one hand I like the idea of having the credits there and 'getting what I want now' - even though  I have everything that the 'nightwave store' has to offer.

On the other hand, because I have everything that it has to offer, even if they reset my credits - it doesn't really matter because there isn't anything new in there. So the only things vets are going for is nitain/potatoes.

 

 

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3 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

We are on the last week of Wolf of Saturn Six and Hydrin's alt helmet didn't show up once.

That's neither a point in Alert's favor or against Nightwave.  There were long periods of Alerts where particular helmets didn't show up at all, and once they did it was at two in the morning, until another few months went by for the next chance but this time at three.

And once it does appear, it will be easily acquirable for anyone who wants it mostly regardless of timezone or responsibilities.

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Fair options

Option 1: Bring back old alerts as it was, remove wolf cred shop completely.

Option 2: Bring back old alerts with only endo and credit rewards

Option 3: Keep it as it is currently

For increase in reward pool

Option 4: Bring back old alerts

Option 5: Restrict nightwave challenges to only "side missions" such as complete a mission and kill x enemies

For decrease in reward pool

Option 6: Increase Nightwave mission difficulty

Edited by Cephalycion
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10 hours ago, Seosa said:

It wasn't set to appear until next nightwave.

 

On 2019-04-11 at 7:50 PM, General_Durandal said:

Alerts: Multiple Helmet alerts every day.
(likely one you already have, or you'll miss the one you're looking for,)
(but new helmets usually show up the first time in an alert in the first week)

 

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Alerts will not return. They were removed to control and limit the rate at which players could obtain items. The finite and paltry number of "Wolf creds" available per week establishes the limit, as opposed to a player's available time which established the limit under Alerts. The assertion that Alerts were removed to benefit the game is hogwash. They were removed to control the economy.

If all Nightwave was supposed to do was benefit players by providing a definite path to desired rewards, they would have been added alongside Alerts. The fact that they threw away a developed and tested mechanic tells you that it was not about improving the game, it was about controlling the amount of calendar time required to obtain the rewards being awarded through Alerts.

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