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Alt Helmet Tri-Count Increase

[DE]Taylor

By [DE]Taylor,
in TennoGen + Steam Workshop

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[DE]Taylor

[DE]Taylor

Posted
Posted

Hi Tenno,

Quick note for those of you working on a Warframe helmet right now: we're increasing the maximum tri count!

A lot has changed in Warframe in the past 3.5 years that TennoGen has been around, including more complex helmets and Warframes. So, to reflect the added complexity -- including FX and cloth details that you have with Warframes like Revenant and Wisp -- we are increasing the Alt Helmet tri count from 5000 to 8000. The guides have been updated, so this change is in effect immediately. 

Thank you for your continued support and feedback

:community:

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Tiltskillet

Tiltskillet

Posted
Posted

@[DE]Taylor , any chance of getting the missing triangles on helmets I've already bought?  If you could pack them in a box and mail them to me, that'd be swell.  I will glue them to my screen myself so you don't have to worry about that part.

PS. If you have a couple of spare vertices just lying around, feel free to throw those in too.

 

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Zahnny

Zahnny

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, SnowWarFr said:

Question: What is a Tri-Count? How will this benefit the helmet artists?

I'm no expert on this technical side of things, but I believe they are similar to polygon counts.

Polygons are used for detail in games for things like geometry, character design and probably countless other things, the higher the polygon count, the better.

It's one of the main reasons why older games have things looking so blocky or triangular, but overtime things appear to smooth out and become more realistic. I think one of the best examples is looking at the Tomb Raider character over the games.

https://i.imgur.com/0t5gJnP.jpg

 

TL;DR: It's going to allow for higher quality Tennogen helmet meshes and a much higher level of detail or even more creative meshes.

Edited by Zahnny
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SilentMobius

SilentMobius

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I'm no expert on this technical side of things, but I believe they are similar to polygon counts..

Tri as in "triangle", the lowest order of polygon. Most modern realtime 3d systems don't use "polygons" they use triangle-patches because triangle can never be non-planar (think of a 3-legged stool always being able to have all 3 legs on the ground but a normal chair can have a wobble due to an off-plane leg)

 

Edited by SilentMobius
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Zahnny

Zahnny

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Tri as in "triangle", the lowest order of polygon. Most modern realtime 3d systems don't use "polygons" they use triangle-patches because triangle can never be non-planar (think of a 3-legged stool always being able to have all 3 legs on the ground but a normal chair can have a wobble due to an off-plane leg)

 

I "think" I get it. Each Trigon thing is the same size in all directions, like perfect triangles I take it? (I'm really not the best at this kind of stuff.)

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SilentMobius

SilentMobius

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Posted
1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

I "think" I get it. Each Trigon thing is the same size in all directions, like perfect triangles I take it? (I'm really not the best at this kind of stuff.) 

No, triangles (AKA "tris") can have any edge length and any set of internal angles while still being a triangle.

Just think of a square, pin down 3 points and try to lift the fourth.. the square deforms it has to "break" into two triangles

Pin down two points of a triangle and move the last and it just pivots.

Google for "non-planar polygons" to see smarter people than me explain it.

Here is a good explaination:

http://trickgs.com/blog/introduction-to-3d-graphics-part-1/

 

 

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Zahnny

Zahnny

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

No, triangles (AKA "tris") can have any edge length and any set of internal angles while still being a triangle.

Just think of a square, pin down 3 points and try to lift the fourth.. the square deforms it has to "break" into two triangles

Pin down two points of a triangle and move the last and it just pivots.

Google for "non-planar polygons" to see smarter people than me explain it.

Here is a good explaination:

http://trickgs.com/blog/introduction-to-3d-graphics-part-1/

 

 

Oh, okay. now I get it.

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[DE]Syncrasis

[DE]Syncrasis

Posted
Posted (edited)

We've put a lot of careful thought and research into this polygon limit increase. As our game has grown and evolved, we've seen many complex new Warframes Join the Ranks, with helmets that have flowing cloth, moving parts, and intricate forms pushing the polygon count higher and higher.

While other categories of items have been kept fairly consistent in their polygon counts throughout the years, the Warframes themselves have grown in complexity. We feel it's time to increase the limit on helmets so TennoGen creators can see their own creations grow the same way.

This isn't to say that efficient topology on your lowpoly creations is any less important; in fact, the opposite is true. Regardless of your design, you are still expected to create a game-ready asset for Warframe: please pay attention to the character's polygon density and use that as a guide for how small your polygons should be. Remember to do test bakes often and zoom out to view creations at in-game distance to see if that tiny bevel leading into an even tinier emissive light is absolutely necessary. Get rid of lowpoly detail where your design never breaks the silhouette as you turn the piece, and let the normal map do the work on those parts. Every polygon should represent a significant change in surface direction. Make each one count!

We will be looking over each helmet's lowpoly model with great care when we are testing pieces that are close to acceptance, so that we can help you reduce polygons in places where they are too dense/not needed. This especially applies to pieces with higher polygon counts. Please keep this in mind when designing a cohesive piece, as excessive embellishments are usually not necessary to communicate a strong base design.

Auto-remeshing tools should be avoided, as they tend to create topology that violates the logic of edgeflow and polygon efficiency. For example: Such tools don't understand where the bottom/connection point of a helmet is, and might create a very dense mesh there that will never be seen. It can't tell what details are important to the silhouette of the piece, or where you might want a certain density/edge Flow for cloth. It's always best to learn how to create good topology by hand for maximum efficiency.

Edited by [DE]Syncrasis
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CV514

CV514

Posted
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В 16.07.2019 в 04:01, [DE]Taylor сказал:

The guides have been updated, so this change is in effect immediately.

From the guide:

  • Triangle budget: 8000
  • Maps: Authored at 2048 x 1024, in-game will be 1024 x 512 with your preference to orient vertically or horizontally.
  • Requires a full set of textures as per our texturing guide here.
  • Provide your own scrolling textures, and make sure any custom FX are given their own mesh (that still fits within the 5000 triangle budget).

Needs to be updated once more?

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