Atlas - Possibly the Most Under-Rated Frame?

[000l000]

Il y a 23 heures, Leqesai a dit :

Atlas falls into a niche category of frames that are really quite good but may not be the most optimal choice. He has great tanking potential but inaros is better, great cc but nova is better, great damage but wukong is better etc.

So what, Atlas has great survivability, great CCs and great damages. The three frames you listed could only pretend to only one category. The only thing Atlas should have to get more popularity is a lazy "press 4 to win" ability cause that's how a frame becomes popular.

I don't think that most players take enough time or even care about gearing/building/learning every single frame - Perhaps they don't like him cause they don't want to play that way or just don't like his appearance (deluxe is really nice though), that doesn't mean he's bad or should be reworked (again), it's only a matter of taste and knowledge.

I wouldn't mind if they change/improve tectonics though, this ability still feels quite dated. The wall can be useful but the whole boulder ability isn't much interesting.

But he's no niche at all.

Edited October 12, 2019 by 000l000

[keikogi]

Atlas is just not particularly good at anything and he has 2 bad skills and 1 over costed skill.

His passive is great

His 1 is good, but requires you to effectively sacrifice your melee weapon

His 2 is terrible, does no meaningful damage, can’t be used to contain enemy movement, it is bad cover (can’t hold a candle to snow glove, electric shield or Gara’s wall)

His 3 is good but is over costed, it is just cone CC if it was 50 energy it would be good and if it was 25 it would be amazing.

His 4 summons 2 pet rocks, they don’t deal any meaningful damage, don’t buff warframe , don’t have reliable cc. They are just a distraction and are heavily outclassed by wuclone.

Atlas is just MEH! He is not terrible enough for reworks outcries nor good enough to get any attention. His prime stat buffs are #*!%ing ridiculous. DE essentially admitted Atlas kinda sucks when they doubled his effective health on his prime, but they also have no intention of doing anything about it (if they had, the rework would have drop with the prime or at least announced). The stat buffs are just a giant Band-Aid for Atlas somewhat underwhelming kit and a good carrot to get people to farm.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

-snip-

Edited October 12, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue
accidental double-post

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

22 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I will add this:  endgame players value efficiency... why is this?  because only efficient people have the 5000+ of hours needed in to be at endgame with a wide variety of load outs that can trivialize all content in the game to the point of falling asleep while doing it, and anyone that is there just for casual sake, doesn't have 10K+ hours needed to be at that level casually; I would likely bet that fewer than 100 people have over 10K hours in, and most of them aren't likely to be casual (in mission, not steam).

So, if I'm not one of those people, I'll enjoy Atlas?

 

Though I do agree with others that Atlas's Tectonics looks really bad and should probably be replaced with something, even if it was just skipping the wall so that it was just Atlas throwing boulders everywhere all the time. For the Rumblers, my only suggestion is simple: more Rumblers. If Atlas could turn the battlefield into a glorified bar fight, I'd be content with that, but I admit that's coming from the part of me that loves Nekros's 4.

If I was to replace Tectonics, I'd suggest something like a radial CC where Atlas summons stalagmites beneath the enemies around him, dealing Impact and Piercing damage and launch them directly upwards into the air like Vauban's soon-to-die Bounce pads. But have it not launch enemies under the effects of Petrify. Instead they can remain where they are (within punching distance) while suffering double damage and/or creating even more bonus rubble, allowing Atlas to focus damage while keeping other enemies off his back as he punches their friends to death.

But if Tectonics was reworked to a simpler-and-more-effective "just throw a boulder at them" that would be fine too. Those walls are just really lame.

Edited October 12, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue

[World]

On 2019-10-11 at 9:51 PM, Pizzarugi said:

Nobody would use Atlas in activities that have a more strict meta like eidolons.

I should also clarify that sorties and kuva floods aren't necessarily hard missions either, at least not in the current state of game balance. With how gross you can make some weapons and frames right now, they're just as much a joke as anything else.

Sure he might not be a good as a 1 trick pony frame in that field purely because those frames are specifically designed for that one purpose in mind - Im just curious as to why, given his potential, he saw less than 0.3% of overall playtime in 2018. Compared to a similar "themed" frame such as Excal (And umbra variant) who had roughly 16% overall playtime. Both of which have survivability (With Atlas being stronger in that regard), high damage output (Excal being arguably better VS armour enemies given the existence of chromatic blade + condition overload) and wide/long range AoE hard CC.

Excal of whom is also just as bad in Eido's, if not worse given he cant Life Strike the Eidolon to upkeep his health.

[World]

Also reading through a few replies I agree, as stated in my original post - Atlas' 2 and 4 ability are essentially useless or meme abilities that dont particularly add to the frame as a whole. Not necessarily in need of reworking but still might be in need of some TLC to bring them up to speed with the current game direction.

Edited October 12, 2019 by -Atlas-

[Klokwerkaos]

this was some of brozimes rework ideas which are pretty decent: 
 

 

[Tatann]

A simple idea to make his 4 "great" :

every enemy hit by his golems (melee or thrown rock) are petrified

There you go : 

- more CC

- free rubble

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

You mash his 1 and occasionally use petrify.  that's boring.

His wall serves no purpose stationary or in ball form.

His rumblers do nothing damage wise and have a time limit on top of having health.  and you're encouraged to destroy them immediately because the less health they have the less armor you get from their rubble.

His passive is far too high maintenance for something that doesn't really increase his survivability enough to hang in end content.  he's more carried in that regard by his hard cc and invulnerability with mashing his 1.

Sure you can go predictable with a punchy boi build.  But I prefer using the summon of his 4 to AoE petrify enemies around me and rid them immediately.

[AceDeus]

Change Atlas' Tectonics to form a wall around him, creating a little arena that forces enemies to climb into the arena and fight him close combat.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

Trying Atlas out now via his Prime.

• Everything feels really expensive in terms of energy.
• The range on his 1 never feels long enough, but maybe I'm spoiled by frames like Garuda who will jump across an entire room.
• Tectonics really does suck. A lot. It is probably one of the worst abilities I've seen in this game. Barely hurts even low-level enemies.
• Why only 2 Rumblers? Why do they have health and a duration? What is the actual point of these things other than distractions?
• Rubble passive feels pointless when the only way to get it is via his most expensive abilities and it decays too quickly to stack high enough to matter.

Other than that turning enemies to stone and punching them is fun, too bad it's the only thing Atlas can do. No wonder they just beefed his Prime stats up and called it good enough.

[Aldain]

Atlas has the problem of being one of the earlier/earliest "Kit Synergy" frames released.

The issue is that his passive relies on his abilities to stack, but unlike say Nidus for example, the rubble decays at an alarming rate (and the grace period is only TWO SECONDS before decay starts) and all but relies on either spamming the vastly over-costed Petrify to keep it up, or spamming Rumblers to get the rubble they drop on death. Rubble also doesn't grant armor if Atlas is missing health at all which makes the decay of Rubble even harder to stop.

He needs the augment for his 1 just to have a chance at keeping the Rubble up, and to me when a frame NEEDS an augment or specific build to get the most out of a passive there is a problem.

That is just his passive as well, he has other issues that several people have stated. Tectonics is a joke, it does no meaningful damage and is worse cover than a Volt shield (and Volt can make MULTIPLE shields while Atlas can only make one) which makes it a plain waste of energy. Rumblers are just kind of...there at best, and at worst they are wasted energy, especially against Corpus since nullifier shields break them down fast; they also do almost nothing against Grineer because of their armor.

Really the issue of Atlas is that his toolkit is just a bunch of "This frame's ability, but worse/more expensive", aside from his 1 (which is still somewhat like a mashup of Excalibur's 1 and Rhino's 1) his 2 is a worse Volt shield, his 3 is worse crowd control than basically every other crowd control in the game and his 4 is just like a poor compromise between Nyx's Mind Control and Nekros' 4.

[(PSN)FK2P]

On 2019-10-11 at 9:40 PM, Pizzarugi said:

Atlas is fine, the problem is the players are expecting him to compete with overpowered frames for a game that doesn't even need them. He can't out-tank Inaros or Nidus or high-strength Revenant, but the game's not hard enough for those immortal frames to need to exist. Atlas can't out-CC Nova or Nyx or Limbo, but the game's not hard enough for those high CC frames to need to exist.

From a balance perspective where the hardest mission content is running sorties and kuva floods, Atlas is fine. The reason he's underrated is because several frames are OP, do everything he does but better, and need to be nerfed.

Correction, the game IS hard enough if you push yourself. And as a player that enjoys that, I certainly need warframe a that can do more than punch something for 2000 damage.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Everything in this thread is a meme. You are all memes. Soylent green is made of people, it's people!

 

I tried Atlas out and just found him to be too boring tbh.

[selig_fay]

1 час назад, SpicyDinosaur сказал:

I tried Atlas out and just found him to be too boring tbh.

Because it's a boy who can only punch in the face. 

[SpicyDinosaur]

20 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Because it's a boy who can only punch in the face. 

no, that wouldn't disqualify him. It was just not interesting for me and my preferences. Not a bad frame, mind you, just dull. His abilities didn't feel like they synergized entirely.

[Pizzarugi]

2 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

Correction, the game IS hard enough if you push yourself. And as a player that enjoys that, I certainly need warframe a that can do more than punch something for 2000 damage.

If you're talking endurance runs, not really. Given how there's only one incentive in the game so far that rewards players for pushing endless content to an hour or longer which rewards you a decoration on your orbiter, it's safe to assume DE doesn't recognize those on any official capacity.

[(PSN)OLLXK]

ehp=your actual health factouring armour shields and abillities. 

Its not so much the frames that edge him out in one area as the fact as fully modded there are some frames that do everything that he does better except the walls and rumbler's at the same time.

Atlas needs to play pretty aggressively with his 3 and 1 to be a good tank which chews through energy decently fast and he doesn't tank or deal melee damage particularly well while doing it you need 3000 armour to match 90%DR on any frame assuming that the other frame has 0 armour itself and actively taking damage slows down the buildup of your armour. the hp buff on his prime actually goes a loooong way closing the gap here on resultant ehp. without completely trashing your build your likely running either the 3 umbrals or a close analogue in terms of survivabillity so we can assume an end stat set of 450 shield 1872.5 hp and 1389 armour/2889. adaptation will not be factored because it effects all frames equally but if you wish to bring it in then multiply the numbers by 10 for common damage types. leaving wriggle room for someone using a 4th survivabillity mod like armoured agility due to preference this leaves atlas prime hovers between ~8000/10000 ehp before rubble and 17/20k with max rubble this is near double what base atas gets and is a large reason that the prime is massively better on that front.       

His fists do unfortunately only match the better melee weapons not outperform them so he doesn't actually have a damage advantage here and using his 3 actually widens that gap as it locks you out of using status.

so in order to outperform atlas PRIME outside of his walls and minions a frame needs to reach above 20K ehp before adaptation have some form of cc and be equipped with a good melee weapon. atlas's cc is in a cone so its value is slightly less than that of a 360 cc and it stops you using status effects so i consider all below cc at least even if not better.

So frames that can do that are in no particular order rhino not neatly calculable, nidus (54945 per stak of 15), nekros(shield of shadows build on uptime only but if your maintaining both nekros has 45k to atals primes20k), gara subbing umbral fibre for redirection has similar defences (194400ehp) and a better wall on top before adding katamari damage to melee and arcane barrier is a better chip damage absorber than grace 

inaros is actually largely overrated durabillity wise clocking in at 18983ehp with full scarab and 3 umbral mods but does have better healing for both self and allies to support his cc which is better than atlas's

I only included frames that can face tank better and cc in that list all 4 also have a better cc abillity and require similar or less energy over time to maintain max ehp.

TLDR atlas prime buff is absolutely massive and brings his durability close to Inaros now but he still has middling cc and is on the lower end of the tank spectrum along with inaros and nezha now. regular atlas is nowhere near close however so prior to this he was just straight inferior. 

Though inaros isn't actually that good a tank if abilities are factored and anything with over 4.5k before adaptation is immortal using adaptation excepting bombards and nullies up to sortie level if the get adaptation up so use what you enjoy anyway.

Edited October 17, 2019 by (PS4)OLLXK

[Miyabi-sama]

Op, you're wrong. The most underrated frames are Zephyr and Banshee.

/thread

[Gurpgork]

On 2019-10-12 at 1:37 PM, 000l000 said:

So what, Atlas has great survivability, great CCs and great damages. The three frames you listed could only pretend to only one category.

All of them fit at least 2 of the categories. Inaros has pretty good CC with Dessication, Nova is a deceptively good tank with her DR stacking build and also has pretty solid damage from AMD and MP, and Wukong is almost as durable as Atlas and also has a pretty good CC augment. 

[000l000]

Il y a 6 heures, Gurpgork a dit :

and Wukong is almost as durable as Atlas and also has a pretty good CC augment. 

Certainly not.

[(PSN)Ragology]

On 2019-10-17 at 8:20 AM, (PS4)OLLXK said:

    

His fists do unfortunately only match the better melee weapons not outperform them so he doesn't actually have a damage advantage here and using his 3 actually widens that gap as it locks you out of using status.

 

Could you be more specific about this part? I thought petrify was changed recently so that we can apply status to targets that have already been turned into stone.

[(PSN)FK2P]

On 2019-10-17 at 4:04 PM, Pizzarugi said:

If you're talking endurance runs, not really. Given how there's only one incentive in the game so far that rewards players for pushing endless content to an hour or longer which rewards you a decoration on your orbiter, it's safe to assume DE doesn't recognize those on any official capacity.

They need to make enemies scale faster in my opinion. Level 100 is too easy. I think wave 5 on hydron should be level 40, wave 10 should be level 60, wave 15 would then be 80, and 20 would be 100, which is the time investment cut off point for most players. That means a 40 wave defence which is the night wave defined ‘long run’ timescale would end you on level 200, the game is pretty fun at that point and you really have to communicate with the team. I don’t think I would be using atlas for that. 

[Famecans]

On 2019-10-11 at 5:25 PM, -Atlas- said:

Hello fellow Tenno,

I thought I might as well start this discussion up about my boi, Atlas. From all the time I've spent playing him, I learned one main thing - Before his prime barely anyone played him or gave him a chance. It got me thinking as to why this was the case.

If there was a checklist of things that generally made a frame strong, Atlas (For the most part) ticks all boxes. Amazing AoE crowd control with the use of petrify, phenomenal tanking potential with armour stacking and health return using his passive, and arguably one of the highest single/group damage abilities in the game given that he can utilize a stat-stick for his landslide (which has impressive damage scaling)... I would mention his rumblers and tectonics ability, but honestly their kinda a meme. Although its always fun to block off doorways and have them YEETing rocks about - their have no real scaling and tend not to be used as much.

I want to know from the community, why you think hes not played as much as other frames. And if anyone else is confused as to why most people consider him MR fodder. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

The answer to your question:
"archwing_error.exe"

note: "atlas" and other inaccessible frames will be a problem for digital extreme's marketing team in the future. newcomers "gaus" and "revenant" are easy to get but frames like "hyldrin", "harrow", "ivara", "grendel" ... are locked by reputation systems, uninhabited maps and rare specific enemies. I don't know how this could be fixed but i see a frame dependent game like "volt" rhino "trini ... visually old but accessible

if these frames change places on the map? the problem is that some are linked to quests or if these random players start in other solar system node :v