Requiem Mods will supposedly have 'charges' and will be consumed after a few uses. What is your opinion on that?

[Loza03]

32 minutes ago, AnOldAlias said:

that are only consumed on a successful vanquishing of a Lich.

This is the big part.

These mods are consumed after we KILL (or possibly convert, although) a few different liches. So, if you think of them more as a kind of resource for 'crafting' Lich weapons. In that respect, that seems pretty reasonable.

[Jarriaga]

I'm fine with this as long as the number of "charges" is reasonable. Say, 3-5 charges depending on how often you'll generate a Lich.

Looks like a good loop so you don't just farm the Requiem mods once and ignore the relics from that moment. It also means that hunting Liches will require more consideration on your end since you may have 2 Liches that need the same mod, making you choose priority for killing.

This will keep me occupied. I like it.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Autongnosis]

Depending on the implementation and on whether kuva liches have replay valie it might be a smart idea to create endless demand, just like it happens with Kuva. 

It also helps that grinding for those relics is tied to grinding with said kuva, the only other endless demand resource in the game. 

[Chroia]

I farm so that I can stop farming.

As such? I'll be gaining Requiem Relics passively from Floods (too bad for Surv/Disruption players, I guess?), I'll be running them intact and picking up any mods as RNG decrees.

Ignore Liches until I get the mods needed. The fact that I can't be 'done' with the farming here means it's not worth rushing for / focusing on.

Rinse and repeat enough to get a single copy of each Kuva weapon for mastery purposes.
Either convert (as I read it to mean that converting them doesn't use charges) or ignore every subsequent Lich (until and unless RNG lands on a weapon and modifier I care for), unless they themselves are enjoyable to engage with.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Chroia
Phrasing.

[Jarriaga]

2 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Hope there is a system where you can ditch them if you don't want the weapon they are dropping currently.

They already said you can "donate" your Lich to your Dojo so someone else takes them.

[Renegade343]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

They already said you can "donate" your Lich to your Dojo so someone else takes them.

You know, this is a rather large sticking point for me. If the Liches are meant to be your nemesis, why can you trade them like commodities and have those Liches now attack the other player, despite hating your guts a lot?

[Skaleek]

24 minutes ago, CandyManCriminal said:

It said on successful vanquishing, sounds like it'll only take them when you actually kill them

This is how i read it as well.

[Skaleek]

Just now, Renegade343 said:

You know, this is a rather large sticking point for me. If the Liches are meant to be your nemesis, why can you trade them like commodities and have those Liches now attack the other player, despite hating your guts a lot?

My tenno void fragrance is smeared all over my friends warframe.

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

And they also said there will be limitations to that somehow so people don't abuse it.

What if my 10th kuva lich in a row has a kraken on them?

I'd imagine a possible limitation to prevent abuse is that you'd need to kill or convert 1 Lich for every 3 donations, so sooner or later you'll have to engage with them.

7 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

You know, this is a rather large sticking point for me. If the Liches are meant to be your nemesis, why can you trade them like commodities and have those Liches now attack the other player, despite hating your guts a lot?

I'd presume this is being done to ease weapon acquisition due to RNG now that they have mastery, or to help casual/non-committed players to have a way out.

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

This is how i read it as well.

Thing is because they didn't go into explicit detail both interpretations are completely valid until it finally launches and we see which one they opted to go with. 

I'm personally always going to assume that developers have opted to go with the worse of the potentials until proven otherwise through either their actions or direct clarification.

[Aldain]

As long as we can stockpile them and don't need to use a stack up before we can get another (coughKubrowEggscough) I guess it might not be horrible.

But if that is the case then DE might want to make a few more drop points for Requiem relics than just Kuva Siphons, because that is a drip-feed of them at best.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

You do realise that Requiem mods are obtained from Relics, right?

Lets break it down so far on how said system works:

• Spam Kuva Siphon/Flood missions to `get` a relic, with a 30% chance on siphon ones and roughly say...5 or so siphons per rotation.
• If you plan to run a pre-made group, most will likely demand X relic with Radiant tier since everyone will want the requiem mods and weapon exilus bps.
• Do said `requeim fissures` and pray they drop. In most cases with radiant, one should always get a silver, but its a nightmare that most will likely not bring multiple copies of the same relic, especially at radient tier, with `recruit chat pre-mades.`

If this does not set up warning flags, this basically demands no less then 3 grinds just to get said item for both Weapon exilus BPs and for each specific requeim mod.

Unless D.E. has stated to improve on it already: The current relic system is insanely unfriendly to trace stocking and rare part chasing, namely that it artificially funnels people to stock huge amounts of traces which can take between 10 to 20 relic openings just to get enough traces PER RELIC, not counting the use of resource boosters to `up the odds`. Which further does not help if you do not make use of deep grinder groups to even prepare the traces, since usually, deeper grinds should equal better trace gain, BUT, the bonus that actually ups the value is only once out of every 4 rotations, and its a measely +25% bonus, with 2 rather useless boosters in the form of affinity and credit boosters, which has 0 usage value in fissure focused missions. 

 

Normally one of the effective ways to stock traces is to do fissures themselves to burn extra relics for things like ducat fodder and forma. So chasing after these Requeim relics are not really going to provide bringing those traces much at all. So its another b.s. episode of what a lot of warframe`s mechanics have became: Multiple Chain Grinds Before You Can Even Get To Doing The Actual Content With Said Target. Relic opening, warframe/weapon grinding, etc. Though least with Eidolons its not as bad since grinding for the amps/focus skills is a one time thing, too bad requiem relics are not taking that much of an approach, which makes me hope the charges on these relics are between 5-8 of them, since anything at 3 or below is going to make this a frustratingly tiresome system for those who want to get invested into chasing after kuva-lich weapons and getting that `perfect kuva lich` to be your `mysterious stranger`.

Short story of my selfish desires on what i hope D.E. could do:

1. Split relic sharing from the relic system, let players deal with their own relics without relying on other players relics. Such as when a person hits 10 reactants, they manually can open it, pick what they want from a choice of 3 rolls on their own relic only (dupes up to 2 copies only on choices) and then said person can just pick a relic and keep picking up reactant to keep it going. Removes rotation rushing frustrations and lets people continue on even when the rest of the people already left the fissure run.
2. Boost Trace gain on top of reducing the ridiculous random-ness(a random roll between a base of 6-30 is plain silly, i am sure plenty would not mind if it became 12-24 or something similar if it would greatly reduce how erratic one gains void traces so its not between 20 to 90 once one has hit 8 or more rotations or so), at the very least greatly up the scaling at how fast one gains void traces in fissures. Namely have each rotation add a additional bonus modifier as a trace gain multiplier on top of resource boosters to push incentive to deeper runs for better trace gain out of that single run, One should not have to do a hour long run just to get roughly 200~700 void traces, without a booster of any sorts. Oh, plus its not guaranteed you will get between that amount traces in 12 rotations, since value could even be below 100 total void traces due to the randomness.
3. Organize the Relic select UI more effectively, this one is just a recent nit-pick i noticed where it can be difficult for one to browse thru their relics in the limited time you are given at the relic screen. Even when i quick type forma in the sorter, it does not do a good job on sorting between COMMON FORMA and UNCOMMON FORMA, it would be nice if we could pre-set filters in advance to go thru these things, maybe even let us setup custom tabs and so on. Certainly might be nice when one wants to go thru requeim relics and needs to select relics with specific names to open up during these kuva fortress fissures.~

Anyway for the TL;DR: Relic system should of got some improvements before D.E. decided to wedge two new things that are going to be obvious high-demand for the player base, despite all the frustration that is clearly going to be present with it, even more so then what people will likely need to get Grendel.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Avienas

[Renegade343]

29 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I'd presume this is being done to ease weapon acquisition due to RNG now that they have mastery, or to help casual/non-committed players to have a way out.

Ok, but they also touted them as your nemesis, and is tailored specifically against you, which is why I'm starting to think they're going to backtrack on that lore.

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

Ok, but they also touted them as your nemesis, and is tailored specifically against you, which is why I'm starting to think they're going to backtrack on that lore.

Gameplay concessions beat lore every time in any game.

Same reason why MagCargo, despite being canonically and officially hotter than the sun, does not burn up the entire region (Killing all trainers and all other Pokemon in the process).

Edited October 29, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Renegade343]

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Gameplay concessions beat lore every time in any game.

Same reason why MagCargo, despite being canonically and officially hotter than the sun, does not burn up the entire region (Killing all trainers and all other Pokemon in the process).

It's different this time around. Pokedex descriptions tend to be flavor text (and officially-unofficially not to be taken seriously), but Kuva Liches are a solid part of the lore concerning Kuva (and presumably the Orokin), and having gameplay-lore segregation in the latter is going to be more jarring.

[Oreades]

13 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Gameplay concessions beat lore every time in any game.

Same reason why MagCargo, despite being canonically and officially hotter than the sun, does not burn up the entire region (Killing all trainers and all other Pokemon in the process).

To be fair "hotter than the sun" isn't exactly "impressive" per say. We can produce temperatures that are "hotter than the sun" with relative ease. The thing that makes the sun imposing is there is a whoooooole lot of it. there is significantly less MagCargo. So it can be hotter than the sun and everything isn't instantly going to die from being in it's mere presence because it simply lacks the mass.

[Arniox]

I actually REALLY like this. It adds challange, keeps me invested, and makes sure I don't run out of things to farm. 

If you can keep them, then you could finish the new update in only a few weeks or months. 

[Renegade343]

4 minutes ago, Oreades said:

To be fair "hotter than the sun" isn't exactly "impressive" per say. We can produce temperatures that are "hotter than the sun" with relative ease. The thing that makes the sun imposing is there is a whoooooole lot of it. there is significantly less MagCargo.

You say that...
Looks at the number of bred Slugma I released because they weren't perfect

I think we might have that problem soon.

[Oreades]

Just now, Arniox said:

I actually REALLY like this. It adds challange grind, keeps me invested, and makes sure I don't run out of things to farm. 

FTFY

Cause having things expire on you isn't challenging nor is slogging through missions hoping RNG bestows upon you another one. 

1 minute ago, Arniox said:

If you can keep them, then you could finish the new update in only a few weeks or months. 

God forbid people be able to finish this in a few weeks.... 

My money is on people are going to shoot for maybe one or two weapons (I know I'm looking at you New Archgun) and then say "To heck with this tedious slog" and stop caring about it, much like I stopped caring about this NW intermission past the lvl 5 reward. But what do I know, I don't give a single hecc about Eidolons and people apparently maybe grind the crap out of them sooooo?

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

You say that...
Looks at the number of bred Slugma I released because they weren't perfect

I think we might have that problem soon.

W-w-why would you do this, you've doomed us all~

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, AnOldAlias said:

I'm responding to my own topic right after it's made to mention that, whilst we don't yet have access to this system, remember to not judge it TO hard until we try it for ourselves, as DE themselves said. Give your opinion, but don't flip out hardcore juuuust yet, lol.

That's exactly how I feel about it.

And i dont know how the kuva weapons are gonna work. What stats can a weapon roll with? Is there a stat range like with rivens? Will the same rivens we already have work with kuva weapons or will you need a "kuva tonkor" riven (or whatever)? How much stronger will they be?

 

[Chroia]

10 minutes ago, Arniox said:

It adds challange,..., and makes sure I don't run out of things to farm. 

Could you elaborate on these?
I'm not seeing the former, and the latter, well...
As best I can see it, you get to farm for 1 kill per weapon type, and then you're out of things to farm until you happen to get a better roll. Do you see it differently?

 

10 minutes ago, Arniox said:

If you can keep them, then you could finish the new update in only a few weeks or months. 

Granted.
As opposed to only starting on it in a few months if you farm the mods incidentally/passively?
Not sure that's an improvement, but ymmv I guess.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Chroia
Phrasing.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, AnOldAlias said:

In this topic:

There has been a post-edit, mentioning(on the #4 area, Requiem Mods): "Post Stream note: Requiem Mods are earned with charges, that are only consumed on a successful vanquishing of a Lich. Repeat Requiem Mods in your collection will eventually go to good use, so getting duplicates won't be disappointing if you are using Requiem Relics to acquire things like Riven Fragments, Weapon Adapters, and more!"

Which, from what I am taking from that, means that Requiem mods will come with 'charges' and each kill of a Kuva Lich depletes the charge of all of the used requiem mods by 1 that were used to kill the Lich, until it reaches 0, to which they'll disappear.

What is the communities reaction to this?

It seems that their intent is to have more incentive to do the 'Kuva Relics' more often instead of just doing them, getting the mods, and not doing them anymore.

Do you think that's an appropriate thought process for making the Requiem mods 'consumable' charge-based, or not?

Personally, whilst I don't really care much for the idea of 'charge' based mods, and what it may bring later if they decide to advance on it, I think it's an interesting mechanic / incentive to continue doing the Kuva Relics.

Doesn't mean I still don't like it much, though, could've just made it so getting duplicates of the Requiem mod did something else, idk.

If I can recharge it, ok.

Otherwise, I point you to the days where water heaters and HVACs used to last 20 years.  The latest water heaters are guaranteed for...3.

Guess why?

[Hyohakusha]

Ngl, the loop doesn't sound very appealing as it goes on.

- not conjecture based on what we know
*conjecture

1- Farm R. Relics from Kuva missions. No problem there, they're pretty much all I run anymore anyway.

2- Refine them to Radiants, since obviously, no-one's going to be looking for intacts in recruiting chat. There are eight mods you need. There's going to be a rather limited pool of people running them at any given time, simply because of the amount of traces we'll need, not to mention the RNG involved in getting eight different relics. Once you find a group, you have to hope everyone doesn't roll a pexilus. And you will need all eight Requiem Mods, but I'll get to that in a second. (5)

3- After grinding your butt off, you have to hunt down your Lich.
    * From what I can tell, this is going to involve running around random nodes in your Lich's area. Whether you find them automatically or it's like an assassin hunt remains to be seen. Really hope it isn't random though. There's already enough of that and we aren't even close to done.

4- See that your Lich is armed with a freaking Seer or Kraken; immediately faceplant onto your desk.
    * If there's a way to simply abandon the hunt, cool. That way you won't have to waste any of the resources you spent at least an entire day to get, before you could even go after the Lich in the first place. If capturing them as an ally doesn't consume any charges from your R. Mods, cool, though now you have a pleb with a Seer or a Kraken that shows up to "help" every now and then. If you absolutely have to burn charges, simply to get past Mr. Kraken Lich, while running the risk of rolling a new Lich who just has the same guns, that is going to absolutely suck.

5- Actually taking down the Lich is going to require 3-4 encounters on average. Three R. Mods on your first run, three on the second, the last two on the third to be certain of the combination needed to take them out. There will be edge cases of luck where you just happen to have the correct three on your first or second attempt, but in general, it'll take 4 to be sure.
   * Again, if "vanquish" means "stab through the face with your parazon and kill them" cool. If it means "capture or kill" that'll still be annoying, but how annoying it will be will depend on how many charges are on R. Mods. And let's not kid ourselves here, it's probably going to be three. Knowing DE's history, ten "charges" (they're going to be consumable ranks, obviously) like a Primed Mod would be too kind.

6- After "vanquishing" X amount of Lich's, repeat from step one. Get more relics, get more traces, sit in recruiting chat, hope you don't get screwed when the relics pop, hunt down the lich, pray it doesn't have crap gun, figure out the R. Mod sequence, fight it 3-4 times.

Caveats: The obvious one is being forced to power through a bum Lich, which after a few loops is going to be any that has a gun that you already have or aren't interested in getting in the first place. Another issue comes up with the random value of elemental damage on the guns. From the example Lich's in the devstream, there is a variation to the percentage of bonus damage. If it's set between 25-50%, cool, but as someone pointed out in another thread, it seemed to range from 24%-60%+. Which means...

RNG 1 - getting the relic
RNG 2 - getting the R. Mods from the relics
RNG 3 - getting a Lich with a Gun you want
RNG 4 - getting a decent roll of elemental damage

... and again, that's not even including everything I outlined above. Honestly, I really don't like the idea of R. Mods being consumable at all. Even with 10 charges each. Those first two steps of RNG being made mandatory to repeat just isn't necessary. Hunting down Lich's for their guns and the rolls on their guns should be the focus. Adding an annoying grind wall we have to repeat just to gain access to the third and fourth steps is going to get old real fast. If there's a way to abandon the hunt on a Lich that isn't worth the effort, or at least have them not consume any charges, it's still going to be annoying when they show up with undesirable guns, but at least you aren't wasting resources.

We'll just have to wait and see when it drops, but I will say that we shouldn't "hate the lich" because after all's said and done, it just turns out to be a massive waste of time and resources that slaps us in the face with a Kraken.

[Arniox]

10 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Cause having things expire on you isn't challenging nor is slogging through missions hoping RNG bestows upon you another one

I play the game in a super casual way. For me it'll be quite chill to refarm more mods for a new Lich. Remember, the charges are only removed once a Lich has been vanquished.