(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

[Dark_Horse89]

First of all I like this new melee changes and mostly im very happy because the manual block is back.

Some feedback on Melee PHASE 2: TECHNIQUES
- I would like to see as the manual block came back by hold right click. i like to use melee even with left click after you switch to manual melee by holding F.
  This option was available before the first melee changes come out. i tried  to setup this on key customization but is not working.
  Quick melee and melee weapon option like old times still missing. 

 This is the only thing that is missing to me all this time 😥 
 

[DoomFruit]

A couple of things which I neglected to mention earlier:

-Syndicate procs are STILL disabled when we melee due to the sword forcing itself into our hands. The only reason for taking a sanctigris over a tigris prime was because it used to fill up, explode and then empty out to refill from squadmate XP while I was busy meleeing enemies. Without being able to use it in parallel, their advantages are gone.

-I still can't alt-fire my Corinth (or Azima) straight from melee. It still needs that clunky mode switch. Still worse than melee 2.0.

-Weapon reload cycles won't restart automatically after meleeing something and then running around with no further weapon input. It, yet again, requires a forced mode switch back to ranged weapons before your character will start the automatic reload of a depleted weapon (ur-example: exergis, vectis). Weapon exilus slots with "reload while holstered" mods are a highly crude band-aid - not only does it require farming up another addon and possibly another 2 forma (and this is if I even have the mod capacity for it) to get somewhere near but still not quite the level that I used to have, I'll need a full 5 seconds before my Exergis will have another shot ready to go.

[S074]

I find really weird and unconfortable to have the heavy attacks tied to the central mouse button.

The current setting also forces you to switch to the melee weapon before you're able to attempt an heavy attack.

I'd like to have an option to be able to use an heavy attack directly by holding E like it used to be, and have the charged attacks to the central mouse button instead.

 

Many actions like shooting with the Redeemer, throwing the Wolf Sledge or deploying the zenistar's disk are hampered by being forced to switch before being able to properly execute them. This is an issue for me as they're no longer as fluid as they used to, when ironically is the exact opposite of what this update seem to aim for.

Edited November 1, 2019 by S074

[MemeTerrorist]

Love the direction of the changes, but...

• Titania's 1st ability Spellbind is now a worse "Lifted" status, as the
  enemies are ragdolled and flung away, instead of being held in place
  (same with Valkyr's Ripline and Mag's Pull)
• Razorwing's Diwata archmelee lost its target snapping functionality
• Many of the melee combos still slow or halt movement for longer periods of time
• Some attacks have unnecessarily long recoveries and lock the character in place
• I can't seem to throw out the Sigma & Octantis shield no matter if I'm aim gliding or not

Other melee issues:

• Sheev skin models are still undersized compared to other daggers
• A lot of polearm and staff weapons still attack with the blunt of the blade
• Redeemer Dendrite skin has misaligned elemental FX

Edited November 1, 2019 by MemeTerrorist
added several points + formatting changes, some things fixed

[vaarnaaarne]

It feels to me that the only reason to use a heavy attack right now is for Life Strike, but even that isn't true because your Heavy Slam will do the same thing so much better without any of the hassle and inconvenience.

[devildevil21]

15 minutes ago, MemeTerrorist said:

 

• I can't seem to throw out the Sigma & Octantis shield no matter if I'm aim gliding or not

To throw the shield you need to be in the air, then hold S and press the melee attack (just tested)

 

Now, on other business: I've made a post on this thread already about tatsu, but I'm gonna make 1 more about nikana's stance, blind justice

 

Blind justice currently has a problem with it's forward melee attack where the last attack requires you to do a spin. Locked in place. I thought the whole reason behind forward + melee was to keep momentum?! How can a locked-spin-in-place attack be anywhere near similar to a "keep your momentum when attacking"?!

[Noir_CZ]

1 hour ago, HyokaChan said:

no, covert lethality is the one that got the nerf

Missed that in the patch/nerf notes. What good is the mod now? I swear it feels like every single patch of late DE is trying to push players to do things the way DE wants us to play.

[Resko875]

Gunblades have lost their purpose bcs heavy attacks with E hold are just slower right now, not smooth enough, heavy attack  are the main reason to fight with those weapons bcs of shooting not slashing with useless blade on those (redeemer and sarpa)

[-Conquest-]

Heavy Attacks draining your entire counter makes them pretty pointless.

220 combo cap could be increased a least a bit more in my opinion.

 

The rest of the changes feel/are great.

Thank you

[ValinorAtani]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ValinorAtani:

My 2 cents so far.

- Polearms, Heavy Blades are feeling clunky as hell now, stopping momentun, forced movements etc.

- Redeemer Prime is a Joke now

- My Zaws have now a lower Damage output then their non-zaw-counterparts. I mean W T F is the purpose now of Zaws??? Whats next, Kitguns doing less damage as a Kraken?

If I want to play Devil May Cry an kill Enemies with an stylish Combosystem I will play it and not Warframe so please stop with the forced Combo nonsense. For me Warframe is a Horde Looter, I want to mow down Hordes and Horde and Hordes of Enemies and not a Dark Souls-Like Looter with Sci-Fi Setting. Bring back the rewarding and funny Diablo 2 esque Gameplay-Loop. Pls.

Few more cents regarding mods after testing:

- Covert Lethality: Bring back the Full Damage Lethality Equivalent. Theres no reason to use a Dagger without the previous Iteration of this Mod. For Example: Just look at the Rakta Dagger Damage against the Gram Prime. The combined Damage even with Stealth Multi and CL is far superior to the Dagger.

- Life Strike: Can we get back is former Iteration as well? If you want to keep this Mod how it is now, Install a new one with 2% on each Standard Melee Hit and send to everyone who ownes one of those per Ingame Mail. It just feels clunky and not response to use heavy hits for healing. Because now you're going to force us again your intended "How to Use Melee" Future. But the players want to play how the want and dont want restrictions to their play style. For now Ivara and Loki Stealthy Invincible Plays are completely useless. Or do you want that we're going to use just a bunch of Warframes from now one?

- and god damn give us separate Button which we can assign freely for Finishers, this X instead of a smooth E is so f*** annoying. Yeah I got it, you're team is playing your own game with a controller, but gosh damnit I have a keyboard. Just let me use it and assign the buttons how I want 😞

 

Please take a look at stealth Kills within the Simalacrum. They seems to be broken inside the Test Enviroment. Few enemies are only open for Finishers I they got a certain amount of damage. Coudnt reproduce it outside in Mission.

Edited November 1, 2019 by ValinorAtani
typos+adding

[Skyguard1]

heavy attacks feel very awkward. you spend all this time building up to a heavy attack, then wait through the wind up animation that locks you in place if you're lucky your annoying target doesnt move while other enemies are still shooting at you then it hits like a sqeaky hammer against a brick wall. at the moment it just doesn't seem worth modding for or using, if we got a number of heavy hits based on the combo counter number (combo counter is at 4 you get 4 heavy hits then you're at 0 combo counter) that might be better especially with the cap that seems to be in place for the combo counter.

[BearWolf]

Zenistar : 
retrieving disk resets combo counter. its very anti productive RN!

[SinistralMessa]

Zenistar & gunblades are no longer mechanically interesting and as such fairly useless. They always felt like proper alternatives to the usual melee play style and now they have been forcibly pushed back into the generic fold. I'd definitely recommend reverting both types back to where they were before the rework. I can't say for glaives but I'm pretty sure the same applies to them, too.

[anfuerudo]

I wanted to make a full scale review of stances, but I can't force myself to do it anymore.

Heavy blades broke me. What were you thinking when you made a Neural Tactical combo for Cleaving Whirlwind, Tempo Royale and Rending Crane? Why does it fling your target across half of the Solar system? I want to kill it, not to run around trying to catch it. It's worse than ragdolling after the slam in previous iteration. And "lifted" status? Well, you might want to try and reduce the height, the enemies usually fly way away from your reach.

And Gunblades added insult to injury. Especially Redeemer. You're swinging and throwing your blade most of a time, rolling here and there with zero efficiency, because if you want to hit something, you have to get up close and personal, but then your combo brings the big boom and the enemies scatter randomly around the room, because Redeemer has that guaranteed blast proc on targets up close. Heavy attacks... well, they're working almost like they used to work when they were called charged attacks, but they no longer produce combo multiplier, so it's a flat damage all the time. Zero scaling. And if you want to charge it, you have to perform a dance, but then when you perform one heavy attack all your dancing goes nowhere, along with your combo counter. And you have to bloody hit the target, and your shot has to land on it, and it should be enough. Because if it wasn't, you have to do it all over again. Or simply forget all that bloody minded dancing and concentrate on heavy attacks. Thanks, very inventive.

Tl;dr: I don't want to run after my targets because the mechanics you've added is so broken!

I know my "feedback" isn't written up to the standards. But as of now I don't want to touch this whole mess with a ten-foot pole. It doesn't help you, it slows you down, it introduces hindrances and obstacles, it introduces outright pauses when you stand and to nothing, it's choppy, the flow is non-existent, because most of the time you have to break the flow and run after your target because it was either ragdolled with your shot, thrown across the map with poorly thought out combo or simply flew away because "lifted" mechanics creates a null gravity bubble around the target and it floats away. I'm sorry, I was hyped about this, but as I see it now, it's plain awful. Bring back Phase 1.

 

Edit:

When Exodia Hunt procs the demon drag of the tight bunch of enemies flings you across the map. Also, Shattering Storm has a bloody pause at the end of the combo, where you just slam your hammer into the ground and you're bloody stuck. While in the middle of the firefight! This is so bloody ridiculous I have serious doubts if anyone ever tried it. It's not an another iteration of JoJo, we don't have plot armor, standing still and doing nothing, because you are combo locked(where did your combo interruptions go?) for a two bloody seconds in a room full of enemies is a suicide.

Edited November 1, 2019 by anfuerudo

[BladeOfHavoc]

Feedback:

• Some stance has way too much momentum and it's hard to focus on single target.
• Balance of range, CC and damage: Nikana's stance is a great example of good balance between the three, while stance like Temple Royal seems to focus too much on CC and lacks damage (compared to it's old form).
• Heavy attack is lackluster, no damage, cast time is too long and the lifted CC is unreliable. I think Heavy attack needs to instant kill enemy in the area if it's going to cost all of the counter (or at-least strip all their defense states for follow up attack.)
• Not sure how I feel about Combo Counter's limit.

Overall the melee movement feels really smooth and well done, just need to balance the stats between stances. Thanks for updating Melee, looking forward to Rage Mode update 😀

Edited November 4, 2019 by BladeOfHavoc
opinion after more testing.

[Univarous]

So far, pretty happy with all the changes every where for melee. My complaints so far is that even with the massive boost to Heavy Attack damage, they still don't seem worth it. Especially against high level units or crit builds with blood rush on them.

The other is with the nerf to Bloodrush, the way it interacts with base critical chance instead of modded critical chance, makes it less of an incentive to use other crit chance mods. It's now more cost efficient to just throw on another elmental to increase damage.

Heavy attacks need more AoE, instant, or guaranteed status proc. If I knew that my heavy attack would have a guaranteed damage proc like heat, gas, toxin, or slash - I'd be a little more happy using it.

Edit: After reading a comment, I agree that heavy attacks suck too because sometimes your target moves during the charge time. Whether they attack you, get knocked down, or run after something else.

Edited November 1, 2019 by TheGreatKazein

[Paidari]

Combocounter and Mirage:

Mirage without Clones: Combocounter rises as expected (aka as with any other frame)

Mirage with clones: Combocounter rises very unreliable. (probably a question about clone or original get the kill count)

Would be nice if combocounter is reliably usable with Mirage-Clones in usage, so the melee changes could be checked out (and liked) by me.

[(XBOX)DS Monkfish]

Please pardon the intrusion from this console peasant, but is heavy attack on controller reallly a right stick click? That's going to be horrible 😞

Edited November 1, 2019 by (XB1)DS Monkfish
typo

[ValinorAtani]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ValinorAtani:

Few more cents regarding mods after testing:

- Covert Lethality: Bring back the Full Damage Lethality Equivalent. Theres no reason to use a Dagger without the previous Iteration of this Mod. For Example: Just look at the Rakta Dagger Damage against the Gram Prime. The combined Damage even with Stealth Multi and CL is far superior to the Dagger.

- Life Strike: Can we get back is former Iteration as well? If you want to keep this Mod how it is now, Install a new one with 2% on each Standard Melee Hit and send to everyone who ownes one of those per Ingame Mail. It just feels clunky and not response to use heavy hits for healing. Because now you're going to force us again your intended "How to Use Melee" Future. But the players want to play how the want and dont want restrictions to their play style. For now Ivara and Loki Stealthy Invincible Plays are completely useless. Or do you want that we're going to use just a bunch of Warframes from now one?

- and god damn give us separate Button which we can assign freely for Finishers, this X instead of a smooth E is so f*** annoying. Yeah I got it, you're team is playing your own game with a controller, but gosh damnit I have a keyboard. Just let me use it and assign the buttons how I want 😞

 

Please take a look at stealth Kills within the Simalacrum. They seems to be broken inside the Test Enviroment. Few enemies are only open for Finishers I they got a certain amount of damage. Coudnt reproduce it outside in Mission.

Few more testings:

- not sure if I'm the only one whos is effected: Naramon Power Spike doesnt seem to work for me anymore. Combocounter is depleting instantly as opposed to the Focus description.

My sugesstion is at least give all melees a flat increase of attack speed for all weapons at a minimum of 0.2 to bandaid this momentum combo stance nonsense.

But anyways I'm done with this crap update testing you should have done beforehand. I cant and wont sustain the new Melee System. My guaranteed Buys of Ivara Prime Access and Inaros / Nezha Prime Access are on Ice after this mess as well.

[supernils]

Tested a hand full of weapons, couple of different stances, looked at mod changes and I gotta say: great job! I have nothing to complain. It all seems very well thought through and beautifully executed.

Small complaint: since gap closing is more predictable now I deactivated melee auto aim. The neutral combos (without forward) still move the character forward a little so you inevitably move past the enemy...

[Steel_Rook]

I've had fairly little experience with melee so far, so my feedback is limited to just two questions:

1. How do I pull off charged attacks? So far, I've not been able to pull one off no matter how hard I hold my Quick Melee key. I've been told that you can only pull off charged attacks if you fully equip melee. If that's the case, then why? If that's not the case, then what am I doing wrong? Throwing chakrims and shooting gunblades is rather important.

2. How do I autoblock? The patch notes said autoblock isn't going away so I expected it would work as it does now - autoblock when melee isn't manually equipped. I've not been able to get it to trigger. Am I doing something wrong, or has autoblock been entirely removed despite what the patch notes say? Realistically speaking, why not make auto-block fire ALL OF THE TIME when a melee weapon isn't manually equipped, but be unable to interrupt aggressive actions (shooting, melee, abilities) and be interrupted by them? The whole issue with auto-block wasn't the "auto" aspect of it. It was that it kept interrupting actions it had no business interrupting.

3. What was the point of adding four combos per stance? The descriptions of which combo is supposed to do what in the patch notes is confusing, unclear and frankly quite bizarre. It betrays the fact that you guys clearly didn't have any overarching design ideas for what "roles" each combo was supposed to have and back-filled the description from what combos ended up in which section. I understand not wanting to reanimate dozens upon dozens of attacks - I get that. But why not just cut the amount of combos down to just two sets - one mobile, one not?

4. Why Jump + Back + Melee? This is so awkward to pull off in practice. Why not just Jump + Melee to hover-melee? Do a lot of people use the jump + melee lunge attack and I just never noticed? If so, why not move that to Jump + Forward + Melee, like all the other forward-lunge combos? It's not that I can't pull it off, but holding back to attack forward is utterly bizarre and counter-intuitive.

[sorcer3r]

You cannot lift up Demolysts, Kuva Guards, Kuva Liches... this feature is useless. You just lose your combo counter

[DoomFruit]

1 minute ago, Steel_Rook said:

1. How do I pull off charged attacks? So far, I've not been able to pull one off no matter how hard I hold my Quick Melee key. I've been told that you can only pull off charged attacks if you fully equip melee. If that's the case, then why? If that's not the case, then what am I doing wrong? Throwing chakrims and shooting gunblades is rather important.

This was never explained anywhere (as is customary for DE), but you need to press the heavy attack button... except when dual-wielding a pistol and glaive, in which case it's still hold melee to throw. This means that you'll never be able to throw or shoot directly while having a gun out.

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

2. How do I autoblock? The patch notes said autoblock isn't going away so I expected it would work as it does now - autoblock when melee isn't manually equipped. I've not been able to get it to trigger. Am I doing something wrong, or has autoblock been entirely removed despite what the patch notes say? Realistically speaking, why not make auto-block fire ALL OF THE TIME when a melee weapon isn't manually equipped, but be unable to interrupt aggressive actions (shooting, melee, abilities) and be interrupted by them? The whole issue with auto-block wasn't the "auto" aspect of it. It was that it kept interrupting actions it had no business interrupting.

Autoblock seems to be acting exactly as it used to be... which is incredibly annoying for me. I hate that crap. I do not want to autoblock. Especially when I'm trying to come down on an enemy's head but NOPE, GOTTA GLIDE.

[Gnohme]

Ok I have a potential aesthetic complaint - in addition to the removal of the very satisfying ragdoll slam attacks, has there been a reduction of ragdoll deaths in general? I feel like every enemy I kill with my War just falls down, no gore or force being done to ragdolls.

 

It looks kinda lame. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gnohme

[LascarCapable]

5 hours ago, Gnohme said:

I very very VERY much endorse this. Honestly I think as they start making fundamental changes to certain mechanics, like when wallrun eventually comes back to replace wallhop, they should always preserve the old mechanics through use of a mod or some unique customization slot they could shoehorn in. Ragdolling on slam was honestly one of my favorite things since they updated the slam attacks. I'd appreciate it if it were height-scaled so that if you were really high up with no combo counter it would just ragdoll them instead of stun. It's a little bit underwhelming as it is. 

Very glad to see some support. :)