(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[[DE]Danielle]

DEV NOTE:  Because so much is changing by design with THE OLD BLOOD, we want to be clear on how we’re handling your feedback. The majority of week 1-2 Hotfixes will speak to feedback. We want to combine feedback and stats together to iterate. To be a part of the feedback conversation please be constructive and clear (expand the spoilers below for a guide on how to write feedback), and most importantly, patient.

Spoiler

 

HOW TO WRITE FEEDBACK: 

1. Keep it simple
Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up
Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite

The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

The Forums can be an amazing tool when used correctly. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on Grendel, how to acquire him, and his signature weapon! 

 

There’s nothing wrong with first reactions - but relearning takes time. We are especially interested in feedback from players who have taken time to understand The Old Blood. Thank you! 

This thread will be used to house your feedback on the newest gameplay in Warframe: KUVA LICHES.  

Expand the spoilers below for the full detailed explanation on Kuva Liches, The Parazon, new mods, rewards, and more: 

Spoiler

 

KUVA LICHES:

Update 26 brings a completely new breed of enemy, gameplay, and reward: The Kuva Liches have arrived. This system is what the Kingpin system, first shown on Devstream #88, has become over time, despite being put on hold for quite some time! This will continue to be expanded throughout Warframe’s factions.

This system is meant to be challenging. It’s meant to be a threat. It’s meant to posit a vengeful and immortal enemy against you until you can decipher how to defeat them. It will demand your best gear and game knowledge! The Update notes will outline the essentials, the game will teach you the rest. Let’s begin, Tenno.

THE PARAZON:

The Parazon is the first and most crucial piece to taking down your Kuva Lich, but it is not exclusive to the Kuva Lich system. This is a new tool given to ALL Tenno of any level and is now a part of the Tutorial. It is an interactive tool with widespread use in the game, from basics like hacking, to deeper gameplay like decoding the means to Assassinate your Lich. 

PARAZON MODS: 
We have moved some Warframe Mods (ex: Intruder) over to become Parazon Mods, and are adding new Parazon Mods (listed below). Our approach with these is that they provide benefits the Parazon’s various uses, instead of taking up slots on Warframes. All core Cipher (Hacking) Parazon Mods can be found in Spy Vaults throughout the Origin System, and Assassin (Finisher) Mods can be found on various Bosses! 

The Parazon will have 3 Normal Mod Slots, and 3 REQUIEM MOD Slots (covered below). 

CIPHER MODS - Think of these as upgrading the tool aspect of ‘hacking’. These make hacking easier or give small benefits when hack is completed successfully! 

• Intruder: + Additional Seconds to hacking. 
• Live Wire: Shock Enemies within 24 meters while hacking.  
• Auto Breach: 30% Chance to autohack! 
• Runtime: +45% Sprint Speed after hack.
• Master Key: Unlock nearby lockers after hacking
• Untraceable: Become invisible for 18s after hacking. 
• Failsafe: 50% Chance to retry a failed hack. 

ASSASSIN MODS - These are for the new PARAZON ‘MERCY’ FINISHERS that can occur at anytime in game on eligible enemies. 

• Blood for Life: 50% chance to create a Health Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Energy: 50% chance to create an Energy Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Ammo: Mercy refills magazine by 100%
• Hit and Rune: On Mercy: +60% Parkour speed for 6 seconds
• Out Of Sight: Blind Enemies with 18 meters on ‘Mercy’ kill. 

PARAZON FINISHERS: AKA ‘MERCY’

Parazon Finishers are a new lethal technique that can occur in any mission on almost any unit. They are optional, as you can still kill the enemy without using them. Enemies eligible for Mercy will have a Parazon icon over their head! 

REQUIEM MODS: 
New Requiem Mods have arrived and they are the only way to end your Kuch Lich. Your Lich is immortal until you figure out the correct combination of Requiem Mods - the precise order matters, and the only way to glean the order is by seeking clues from your Lich’s Thralls and trying them out on you Lich. Pay attention to your battles!

The 8 Requiem Mods are:

LOHK
From brooding gulfs are we beheld
By that which bears no name

XATA
Its heralds are the stars it fells
The sky and Earth aflame

JAHU
Corporeal laws are unwrit
As suns and love retreat

VOME
To cosmic madness laws submit
Though stalwart minds entreat

RIS
In luminous space blackened stars
They gaze, accuse, deny

FASS
Roiling, moaning, this realm of ours
In madness lost shall die

NETRA
Carrion hordes trill their profane
Accord with eldritch plans

KHRA
To cosmic forms from tangent planes
We end as we began

Requiem Relics also contain an all new item - a Riven Sliver! A fragment of a sundered Riven. It is known that, with enough Slivers, Palladino is capable of reforging a complete Riven. 

Earning Requiem Mods: 

The Void is reacting to the Lich experiments on the Kuva Fortress, and for the first time: Void Fissures are appearing on the Kuva Fortress! But these are unlike the others, and they only respond to REQUIEM RELICS. 

There are 4 Requiem Relics - each with 2 Requiem Mods. Collect them all! 

- You can get Requiem Relics from KUVA FLOOD SIPHON MISSIONS, guaranteed. 
- You can get Requiem Relics from normal KUVA SIPHON MISSIONS, 30% of the time. 

- These can be refined like Lith, Meso, Neo, and Axi Relics. A 5th Tab has been added for REQUIEM RELICS in your Void Relic Refinement screen. 

Requiem Mods have limited a limited amount of charges (3), but only consume charges when you successfully kill a Lich. Repeat Requiem Mods in your collection will eventually go to good use. 

ONTO THE LICHES:

THE ENEMY:
-Killing A KUVA LARVLING is the first step to creating a Lich. These can be found on any regular level 20+ Grineer mission in the Origin System - not including Sorties/Fissure/Quests, etc. for now. They are only available for players who have reached The War Within or beyond, this is the required prerequisite for getting a Lich.
- You can only have one Lich active at a time. 
- The only way to get rid of your Lich is by using your Parazon with the correct Requiem Mods in the correct order - but you won’t be able to do this until you’ve found your Lich. Read on to learn how to do that.
- Only you and your Parazon can be lethal to your Lich - your squadmates can help you weaken the foe, but you are the key to victory. 

THE HUNT & THE INFLUENCE:
- Once your Lich has set its sights on you, the hunt begins. You will know you have your Lich when this Icon appears in your Navigation and Menus, allowing you to view your Lich status at any time:

THE FIGHTS:
Once you’ve drawn your Lich out to fight by destroying their Thralls and Influence nodes, fights against your LICH can go one of two ways:

DEFEAT- if your Parazon does not have the proper order of Requiem Mods. You will be defeated, and your Lich escapes, and grows stronger. 

VICTORY - if your Parazon does have the proper order of Requiem Mods. You will be victorious.  

THE VICTORY!
Defeating your Lich gives you two options:

VANQUISH:
Vanquishing your Lich with your Parazon ends its immortality, and grants you its Kuva Weapon. 

CONVERT:
Converting your Lich with your Parazon corrupts it and turns it to your side, and will have a chance to appear in battle to aid you. 

THE KUVA WEAPONS: 
When you Vanquish a Lich, you’ll get its Kuva Weapon variant that is completely unique to your Lich. The base weapons are as follows, with custom stats depending on your Lich: 

• Kuva Karak: The custom weapon of a fearsome Kuva Lich. It has greater reload speed, lower recoil, and greater accuracy than the standard-issue Karak rifle.
• Kuva Quartakk: Unlike a standard Quartakk, this Kuva Lich variant fires automatically from the hip and reloads faster while retaining its signature feature: annihilating targets with four simultaneous shots.
• Kuva Ogris: The custom weapon of a fearsome Kuva Lich. Unlike the basic version the Kuva Ogris fires detonite-infused casings semi-automatically, from a smaller clip, while dealing greater damage per shot.
• Kuva Kohm: The Kuva Kohm variant has a higher fire rate than the original. For every shot fired in rapid succession, the Kuva Kohm releases an additional bolt and grows more lethal.
• Kuva Tonkor: This Lich-variant grenade launcher hurls mayhem and destruction from an increased clip. The Kuva Tonkor deals lower damage per hit with this Grineer grenade launcher.
• Kuva Drakgoon: The Kuva Drakgoon flak cannon sends volleys of intensely hot shrapnel ricocheting around the room that do not slow down. Larger clip size and reload speed. Can be fired in wide or concentrated bursts.
• Kuva Stubba (AKA Twin Stubba): Double-fist rapid-fire bursts of pain with these dual-wield variants of the Grineer submachine gun. Higher fire-rate and clip capacity. 
• Kuva Seer: This variant pistol has higher fire rate and magazine capacity. Superior zoom capabilities, plus projectiles have a small Corrosive burst.
• Kuva Kraken: A custom variant that fires three quick shots with a single pull of the trigger, or can alt-fire burst the remainder of its clip. Higher fire rate, magazine capacity and reload speed. 
• Kuva Brakk: This Lich-variant semi-automatic hand cannon delivers a lot of punch in a small package. Higher fire rate, magazine capacity, and reload speed. 

NEW:

KUVA CHAKKHURR - A high-damage flintlock rifle! 

KUVA SHILDEG - A massive hammer for the smashing!! 

KUVA AYANGA  - An Arch-Gun that can be turned into a Heavy Weapon with a Gravimag. 

OTHER REWARDS AND SECRETS: 

If Kuva Weapons or Lifelong Companionship aren’t your thing, there’s more! The birth of a Kuva Lich from a Larvling has a chance to create a Lich with some added flair - one of Seven new Ephemeras that you can only earn from Vanquishing or Converting your Lich (if it has one equipped)! These are a bit more special and rare, so don’t expect every Lich to have one, but we will be balancing over time. 

 

Need to report a bug? Visit the THE OLD BLOOD Bug Report Megathread.

[Feuershark]

could you make the Parazon tied to Warframe in the Fashion department ? I want the Parazon to match the Warframe's color

[TheQuartakkMain]

I have only one problem. it's not a world-changing one.  And it's about the kuva quartakk quatz*

Why we can't just switch between fire modes?
 I've been using the quartakk for now slowly 400 hours. It's my favorite weapon. I always shot from the hip, so...

No matter if it has better stats, it's still not a quartakk just a primary version of the quatz. It's not unique just a frustrating,, mechanic"

Quartakk is called Quartakk for a reason: Because it's a four-shot burst rifle, not  a magically fire mode changer,, auto fire from the hip, burst when aimed. I hope its will change it to manual fire mode switch, because it was a bad move on the quatz to.

Edit:

It's ridiculous how much time needed to get the weapon, and then i can't even choose what fire mode i want to use?  it's cost more time than getting a prime weapon.  

This mechanic just feels cheap, not unique.

So this is my feedback on the KuvaQuartakk's mechanic: It's bad, please take thought of actually change the fire mode mechanic, to manually switchble (like the stradavar,tiberon prime,zarr). 
I've been using the quartakk from the moment I got it, now slowly using it more than 400 hours. I would be really happy  (and other quartakk users)  to use the kuva quartakk as the original one, not like a primary version of the quatz.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Xrasegot

[kingdomeTHEMADcthulhu]

can i have my old combos back this new melee combos are so much harder to use i hated block combos so much i never used then no matter the buff now there all block combos piz have that a change i have no intent of useing melee for much of anything anymore

 

[mrhat.lf]

It is not outlined very well the means of Mercy Killing an enemy. The idea behind it seems like it was ripped from DOOM, but lacks consistency in the execution of the kills. Also, what is considered an eligible enemy? And the health threshold is not outlined very well, as some enemies will be dropped to the threshold and can be Mercy'd, but others will not. From my testing, I have found if enemies drop below the threshold, they cannot be Mercy'd, so their health has to be at a specific percentage.

[Turtle.]

Xbox controller loses function in game upon alt tab or any type of unfocusing from the Warframe client from what I can tell. 
Seems to only work in the log in screen.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Turtle.

[Domaik]

it is incredibly tedious and a very long proccess to get a single murmur unlocked, let's not talk about 3 of them...and to add to the mix we have to use the random relic farm system to get random requiems.

I hope weapons are tradeable or at the very least have a 100% drop chance on kill.

Collecting all these weapons may very well take a year for me if I can't trade them for plat. Farming the plat to trade them is certainly much faster than farming one single kuva lich right now.

[PlaceholderBob]

Right now thrall mission kind of have underwhelming reward. Have a reward like endo or relic would be more satisfy when you stole them back from lich.

edited- kuva also would be nice.

Edited November 1, 2019 by somesung

[Ayvuir]

9 minutes ago, Domaik said:

it is incredibly tedious and a very long proccess to get a single murmur unlocked, let's not talk about 3 of them...and to add to the mix we have to use the random relic farm system to get random requiems.

I hope weapons are tradeable or at the very least have a 100% drop chance on kill.

Collecting all these weapons may very well take a year for me if I can't trade them for plat. Farming the plat to trade them is certainly much faster than farming one single kuva lich right now.

I was going to say it, this is taking too much time, it's rly depressing when we execute mobs and the bar barely move, i can't enjoy the update because i hate long missions and it frustrates me when i got to do 10000 times useless short and long missions just to identify one murmur. Wrong move DE, this system to identify murmur is completely opposite of fun. T_____T

[InterrobangTF2]

I think it would be a good idea for the Thrall missions (the nodes occupied by your Lich nemesis) to reward Kuva on completion due to how long the grind is for a single requiem murmur. We need something on the side to earn while we mindlessly grind Thralls, not just obsolete resources that we already have hundreds of thousands of.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Jackal_Off

[groznez]

When having new Requiem mods on reward screen could you show the anme of the mod instead of just the icon the mod has. It can be confusing since they new addition to game also every other rewards has its name listed on the bottom.
Here is screenshot showing the issue:

[Knicklichtjedi]

I started playing the update and I have some really important feedback.

Please remove the ability to buy all the new Requiem Mods with one purchase of a bundle. Even if its >800 Platinum, that is a really bad decision in my opinion.
The amount of work you need to get all Requiem mods is immens and a fast-skip for all that grind seems unfair to everyone that doesnt want to pay that price.
The relic packs are kinda fine, because its only 4 relics and you still rely on RNG to get the exact mod you want, but if you can buy relic packs over and over that is a bit wrong as well. Requiem mods should feel like a lot of work, because they give you access to powerfull Kuva weapons and the bundle allows to skip that entire aquisition process.

Ive been farming for a few hours now and I got only one mod and it might take me at least a week now to complete the entire collection.
So please, please remove at least the mods from the bundle as soon as possible!

[McLister]

The changes to weapon combos was a bad move. A lot of really good and simple combos now have things that interrupt them seemingly slid in randomly. 

[GrandLibra]

Requiem mods being locked behind 4 or so layers of RNG, and THEN being consumable is not acceptable. Please make them permanent items. I would rather not being stuck grinding out the same 8 mods whenever I feel like doing any lich related content.

Also the relics being buyable from the market, feels like an extra kick to face

[Han971]

Ok Tell me if i'm right/wrong there.
To get " a moderate chance" to kill your boss, you need 3 things:

1) Farming Requiem Relics.
2) Farming Requiems by opening farmed Requiem Relics.
3) Farming Lich’s Thralls to discover your Boss' "weakness".

For the 1st Step, it's kinda easy, compared to the others.
100% guaranted R.Relic on Kuva Flood Siphons.
30% getting R.Relics on Siphon Kuva missions.
Until there, Farming R.Relics is really cool/fair.

The second step will be really teadious because even if the R.Relic is upgraded, you'll still have a low chance to get the Requiem.
=====>More hours to farm again R.Relics then opens it, except if you have luck.

The 3rd step, aka farming hints, is fair. Until you figured out how many Thralls' heads you need to get ONE full murmor.
(I killed with two missions around 10 Thralls and not even 1/4 of a hint is discovered)
My point is on this 3rd step:
==>The amount of Serfs/hints needed is ridiculously too high.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Han971

[Rogunz]

What I thought the farm for a kuva weapon was going to be before the update was bad but it's even worse than I thought.. After hours of farming all I have is 2 copies of the same immortal mod. The fact that you can just buy a pack of all the mods and buy relics makes the whole thing feel extremely scummy.

 

I can't see how you thought the mods being consumable on top of that was reasonable unless you never tested how much farming it actually takes to get them. They really should be permanent and you shouldn't be selling shortcuts to skip that much grind.

[SSI_Seraph]

Liches:
- The process of actually killing your lich is extremely long.
- Getting the right reqium mods is super tedious and involves a lot of layers of RNG for something that has only 3 charges for some reason.

- the stealing mechanic serves absolutely no purpose and is gonna get old real fast

Parazon:

- The mercy procs are too far and few in between and totally do not compare to just having the option to oneshot an enemy of your choice with your CO dagger.

A whole system of mods for it seems to just go to waste with how low of a chance you have to actually get a mark.

- The hacking animation is very buggy so far.

Market:

- The ability to buy a full set of relics for 85p when the process of getting the mods is so tedious seems a lot like baiting the purchase.

- The armor and color palette shoudn't be locked behind such a huge bundle.
 

Edited November 1, 2019 by SSI_Seraph

[blitzsharp]

Currently farming requiem relic is time gated by the Kuva missions and there are 3 layers of RNG: 30% dropping, 25% right relic, Requiem relic T5 mission reward

All this bad grind, and there is a requiem bundle for sale at 85 plat. It looks bad.

We need the relics to drop in a mission that is not time gated, prefereably an Endless Mission. Or other means to aquire the relics. Or make Kuva Flood and Ciphon mission available all the time without cool down.

The process of getting to the Lich is way to long. After clearing one planet, I expect to get to the lich, NOT only one requiem clue! How long does it take to just get one chance at Lich?!!! If we need to trial and error to get the right order, this pace is wayyy too long! 

Edited November 1, 2019 by blitzsharp
Extra feedbacks

[JLuzzy]

DE added 13 "new" Kuva weapons that are all gated behind Kuva Lich kills. Everyone has already been talking about how tedious it is just to get a foot in the door for the new content. But for completionists like myself and many others who like collecting every frame and weapon, there is just too large of a time commitment to get the weapons, let alone one you want. 

The problems as I see are,

1. Each lich has a random weapon when they spawn, not guaranteeing one you didn't have before.

2. The time to kill a lich and obtain their weapon is simply too long of a process

3. We don't know if they are allowed to be traded or obtained via other methods. 

[intrand]

---- lich feedback ----

I was *super* into this update until I realized just how long it would take to get enough murmurs to unlock the fight with my first lich. Shadow of Mordor, this is not.

THEN, when looking at the feedback thread I learned that the cards I just bought aren't permanent items like other mods. Great. Guess I need to ignore all precedent set over the last 5 years of playing. The bundle I bought says, "Includes a full set of requiem mods" <---mods. Those permanent upgrade cards. The things I equipped in my arsenal -> Parazon -> upgrade screen. Next to the normal mods. You know... mods. Why aren't they permanent?!

Together this creates an unnecessarily complex system on top of game that is already super complex. I want to play the system because it's fun and get rewarded as a by-product. I believe you can fix Kuva Liches to be a hugely successful feature of the game.

 

---- other stuff ----

Small note: Wifey and I do not like having to pay for config/look slots when the normal ones don't cost money. I guess it could be a lot worse... we can sort of swallow that one. You guys deserve to get paid and everything... I just wish maybe it was all 3 slots for the platinum. 2,100 plat (60p * 42 frames) for all the "extra" config/look slots is a lot.

 

TL;DR: Overall, this update is amazing. Melee feels way better/simpler/stronger; new stuff is neat and fun; the interface updates are great; everything feels fresh and like the game is maturing... except the lich system is plagued with so many layers of RNG and the requiem cards not being permanent is a *really* big deal breaker for me. Too many layers for me to care about managing.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I want to be honest and concise.

In my dumb, humble opinion, this update gets a solid: B+/10

 

[IIDMOII]

55 minutes ago, intrand said:

... except the lich system is plagued with so many layers of RNG and the requiem cards not being permanent is a *really* big deal breaker for me. Too many layers for me to care about managing.

This. 

Based on what I've read so far, I don't even want to play this content long enough to provide the "correct" feedback.

I'm starting to wonder if these guys are confusing a test of skill with a test of patience. 

[PlanAHasFailed]

Requiem mods - either should be permanent or take less steps to farm (ie, NOT in relics) 

Condition Overload - was over-nerfed; damage calculation should be reverted back to the way it was, making the mod less powerful than its previous incarnation but still worth using

Kuva Lich Hunter Collection - armors & palettes should be sold in separate bundles

Requiem Relic packs - given their rarity and importance to the entire Kuva Lich system, they shouldn't be sold for platinum; this is tacitly admitting that the farming process for these relics is onerous and poorly designed.  Wouldn't be as much of an issue if the Requiem mods came from a source other than the relics

 

 

 

[BotO8]

I would personally love a Kuva Sobek.

Sorry, I'm a bit tired, I had intended to talk about more important stuff.
Farming the relics can be a bit troublesome but it gives incentive to do Kuva missions other than survival and disruption.
The new riven shard mechanic has me interested but I worry about RNGesus being unkind.

My sole complaint so far is that coloring the parazon the only thing in it that's metal for gold is the blade.

It'd also be amazing if we could have the option to hold Stubba and other secondary smgs by the mag and the grip like a mobster from the 80s.
 

Edited November 1, 2019 by BotO8
I forgot to put in my feedback was too enthralled with the idea of going "Rattle em boys"

[___Operator___]

Honestly this has been the biggest slap to the face I've ever received in the history of this game. I understand the liches are supposed to be "end game" content but this is exactly what we didn't want, grind on top of RNG on top of grind, why do you insist on butchering every update with an absurd amount of grind that completely puts people off of the game. The encounter with the Lich was the biggest disappointment I have ever received in this game. All that time and effort put into getting a lich to spawn for him to go down instantly, my parazon to tickle his junk and then he instantly one shots me through 8000hp, armor and adaptation.

On what earth is this fun? To literally just get one shotted regardless of what you do because you don't have the right parazon mods, I could understand if you where given them all to begin with and had to figure it out but really? putting them behind a grindwall or buy now for 800plat? and I also heard they where consumed after use.

This is without a doubt the biggest pay2win system we have ever had in this game and to top it off you don't even win, its a pay2maybewin. You really should feel ashamed of yourself for shipping this mess to us.

[Oreades]

Didn't initially realize there where specific sub threads so copy pastaing this from the more general thread.

 

Yeah so decided, since I've gotten a few requium to go ahead and try makinga Kuva Lich to try it out.....

Initially it was sorta entertaining and then the first encounter rolled around and what even the heck is this hot mess.....

So I'm jumpin around trying to stay alive, as far as I can tell I downed her, go in hit X get the cinematic where you stabby stab her..... shock and awe the first combo is totally wrong because there is no way of telling what it's supposed to be.... so the Litch immediately retaliates by just picking me up and snapping mah spine.... That is about as arbitrary a death as ever there was one..... GG I guess?

It's not even a "good loss", you just end up feeling cheated.... why should I even care if you're just gonna lose if you don't have the magical combo of runes that says you win.... That isn't challenge it's a timesink check.

To top that off my first Litch is in point of fact a garbage Litch, no interesting Ephemera, Z-Tier weapon, I have very little interest in continuing this quote unquote skirmish save for the fact that I have literally no choice but to plug my nose and choke this down and pray that maybe the next litch doesn't suck butts.

 

For the record I wasn't expecting to "win" per say, I was expecting a death animation on the Litch, maybe some mocking ("I'll get you next time Gadget, neeext tiiiiimeee~") along with an indication of their increase on power, because I hadn't truly killed them and to move on with my day. Not to just get totally BOSHIED out of left field.  

If it helps this was also on like my 4th or 5th mission after first creating my Litch, I think I had a little over a quarter of the (I'm assuming first) Resonant(?) bar thing filled when this happened.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Oreades