The true reason why DE won't fix Lich RNG

[Fire2box]

36 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

And it doesn't go away either when trading to other players. So it doesn't generate any money for DE either.

This update got the highest plat priced cosmetic bundle the game has seen yet. Actually it's not even fully cosmetic, it has all 8 of the lich mods in it. 

"Fast Track your lich adventure here, just pay a small 800+ plat!"

And lets not forget the boosters, a 4th one is still on its way right? that's only 800 a month for all 4. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Fire2box

[White_Matter]

46 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

It's simple: Money.

The Lich system is their new iteration of Rivens. It's their new moneymaking scheme, and they are testing the mechanics and our responses.

They are gonna make Liches contracts tradeable as they said. So, once the trading begins and the platinum flows, they'll keep adding things to it.

Imagine how much platinum a lich contract with a perfect 60% roll would cost.  Imagine how much an ephemera contract would cost. They've just made tradeable cosmetics a thing!

Now imagine the new additions down the road: New weapons. New elemental combinations. New stat boosts like critical chance or critical damage. The system will basically become Rivenized weapons (and not just weapons, but reskinned existing ones. All the benefits of new content with 0 effort) plus cosmetics as a bonus. It's just ephemeras now, but soon it'll be armor pieces and syandanas as well.

How long before Liches can drop a Kuva Ignis with bonus slash/viral combo and critical+status chance? How much do you think a perfect 60% damage bonus weapon with the right extra stats would cost? 1k platinum? 2k platinum? More? This is just another marketable feature to move platinum around, to make people invest money, time and resources.

RNG is just their way of creating artificial scarcity, much like the riven slot machines.

Time will tell if I'm right or if this is just a nutty conspiracy theory. Once Liches become tradeable, and they analyze the results, we'll truly see what will happen.

Let's hope you are wrong friendo. 

I initially assumed tradable lich contracts was like a barter between 2 lich owners. One lich for another.

 

[Genitive]

3 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

But platinum does disappear from circulation. Either because someone doesn't spend it, say, someone sells an item for 1k and don't partake in trading anymore, or because someone does spend it in the market to buy cosmetics or boosters. Platinum is not a constant, it fluctuates. Some people buy platinum from DE, icnreasing the amount in the market, while others "destroy" platinum by purchasing stuff from DE.

Also keep in mind that items can be generated ad infinitum.he fact that new items will constantly appear means the system is not a zero sum game.

But still, we don't have access to any sales data, so discussing how much platinum players circulate and how much leaves the system due to the market is just conjecture. Unless we know that, we won't be able to know to what extent RNG systems influence plat sales.

And I'll leave it at that, I'm not competent enough to talk about economy.

[Fire2box]

4 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

But platinum does disappear from circulation. Either because someone doesn't spend it, say, someone sells an item for 1k and don't partake in trading anymore, or because someone does spend it in the market to buy cosmetics or boosters. Platinum is not a constant, it fluctuates. Some people buy platinum from DE, icnreasing the amount in the market, while others "destroy" platinum by purchasing stuff from DE.

Also keep in mind that items can be generated ad infinitum.he fact that new items will constantly appear means the system is not a zero sum game.

I've held onto I think 10,000+ plat at a single time back before tennobaum 2018. Me and several other players could easily have thousands of plat we got from trade market that we never put back in as we are sellers, not buyers. The mere act of holding it takes it out of the market. 

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

4 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

This update got the highest plat priced cosmetic bundle the game has seen yet. Actually it's not even fully cosmetic, it has all 8 of the lich mods in it. 

"Fast Track your lich adventure here, just pay a small 800+ plat!"

And lets not forget the boosters, a 4th one is still on its way right? that's only 800 a month for all 4. 

And you can be certain that atleast one lone idiot purchased that bundle.

[trst]

And assuming they even will be tradable for plat it'll come with the same catch as Rivens: nobody but youself is forcing you make any purchase.

Rivens are optional as is having a perfect 60% roll for every Kuva weapon. If people find them required then it's on them and if they're also unwilling to invest the time to grind it out then let them pay for it.

[ixidron92]

hace 2 minutos, White_Matter dijo:

Let's hope you are wrong friendo. 

I initially assumed tradable lich contracts was like a barter between 2 lich owners. One lich for another.

 

Yes, but that doesn't stop people from asking for platinum in exchange for a contract. All you have to do is trade the platinum through normal trade and then exchange contracts. This is worse, because it opens the door for scammers.

[Fire2box]

2 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I initially assumed tradable lich contracts was like a barter between 2 lich owners. One lich for another.

 

Oh it is. The thing is the buyer pays first in a normal trade, then get's the lich via lich trading. Seller might have to market lich for 10 less plat then they want so buy can rush a clan key but that's only if seller can't taxi buyer into the clan dojo. 

[Flameduel]

People are not thinking about this, while yea this might be a way to get platinum, the question is how will contracts work. Will you even be able to hold more than one contract whether by killing or trading? If not that means the grind still will be killing the lich till you get a good one because people will not want to buy weapons below 50% unless they are going for mastery fodder for like 20 plat. Not a hate, I will be farming them all myself because I enjoy doing something not Hydron. Just a curious thing to think of while we do not know how it works.

[Fire2box]

1 minute ago, Flameduel said:

People are not thinking about this, while yea this might be a way to get platinum, the question is how will contracts work. Will you even be able to hold more than one contract whether by killing or trading? If not that means the grind still will be killing the lich till you get a good one because people will not want to buy weapons below 50% unless they are going for mastery fodder for like 20 plat. Not a hate, I will be farming them all myself because I enjoy doing something not Hydron. Just a curious thing to think of while we do not know how it works.

Yeah, that drives down supply increases demand. Normally that dictates higher prices. 

[ixidron92]

hace 1 minuto, Fire2box dijo:

Yeah, that drives down supply increases demand. Normally that dictates higher prices. 

Which is my original point. They won't fix the RNG in order to artificially decrease supply and drive the prices up. It's the same as the Riven system. 

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

54 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Ehm... platinum will go from a player to another player... and as long the platinum stays in the ecosystem DE doesn't get anything out of it.

So yeah, nice try, will report for trolling.

Your one of the dumbest people I've met in the forums if u actually believe that

[Miser_able]

29 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Yeah... do you realize that you can simply say: Trading 60% roll contract for any contract+1k platinum, right?That is actually worse because it opens up the market for potential scammers!

 

32 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Step 1. find potentional buyer

Step 2. Show you have what they want

Step 3. they give you plat in normal trade

Step 4. You proceed with lich trade. 

 

special step that may be needed. discount 10 plat off trade so they can join your clan rushing the clan key. 

and those offers would be against the rules, since that would count as trading for promises.

as for "scamming" the trade window should show the lich contract and what they have, that would prevent scamming.

[Pizzarugi]

14 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I initially assumed tradable lich contracts was like a barter between 2 lich owners. One lich for another.

Why are we speaking past tense? Far as I understand, it's still in the works with no definitive process. It could still be a possibility of Lich trades requiring another to make the transaction.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Pizzarugi

[80think08]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb --Brandt--:

This type of RNG I doubt it's about money. It's probably their attempt of keeping people interested in playing when it does the exact opposite. Imagine the internal idea pitch... "If we add 13 new weapons that takes 2+ hours each depending on luck to get and they get a duplicate, then they'll try over and over again."

^

[ixidron92]

hace 7 minutos, Miser_able dijo:

 

and those offers would be against the rules, since that would count as trading for promises.

as for "scamming" the trade window should show the lich contract and what they have, that would prevent scamming.

Yeah, but if you want to trade platinum for contracts, it's assumed you won't be able to do it straight ahead and you'd have to trade separately. If that's the case we'd see a lot of "Trading 60% weapon roll for any contract and ammo box for 1k  platinum" offers.

And that's where the scam part takes place. People can offer a contract, get the platinum and don't deliver.

Edited November 12, 2019 by ixidron92

[Miser_able]

6 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Yeah, but if you want to trade platinum for contracts, it's assumed you won't be able to do it straight ahead and you'd have to trade separately. If that's the case we'd see a lot of "Trading 60% weapon roll for any contract and ammo box for 1k  platinum" offers.

And that's where the scam part takes place. People can offer a contract, get the platinum and don't deliver.

and thats why trading for promises is against the rules.

[Dreddeth]

Assuming that the trading will ultimately be Lich-for-Lich as some have said, the idea that someone would accept having to pay someone plat in a regular trade, before ever even opening Lich trading, is frankly ridiculous. Consider the following:

Le Hypothetical Conman "Trader": "Yeah, no, it's totally legit and not a reportable offense under existing trade policies for me to demand payment for my Lich before giving it to you. It's also the right thing to be doing anyway, because I deserve your plat for lucking into this guy, who I promise has an amazing drop."

Le Buyer Possessing More than Two Brain Cells to Rub Together: "Ha ha ha, no. That seems shady af."

Le Honest Trader: "Hey, I've got this Lich you probably want, and you've got that Lich that I probably want. What do you say we go one-for-one like how Syndicate Augments are often traded?"

Le Buyer Possessing More than Two Brain Cells to Rub Together: "I'm listening."

Edited November 12, 2019 by Dreddeth
Formatting error.

[Oreades]

13 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

and those offers would be against the rules, since that would count as trading for promises.

as for "scamming" the trade window should show the lich contract and what they have, that would prevent scamming.

As far as I am aware "Trading on a promise" is in no way shape and or form "against the rules" it is however discouraged because should the trade not be honored DE will NOT enforce it. 

So they're either going to essentially be adding a whole dojo room that is literally nothing more than a duplicate trade terminal (99.997% redundant) BUT it can also handle Liches ..... or they are opening their support up to a wave of "I got scammed" tickets that they are just going to functionally ignore. 

Which means a lot of angry players along with a system that never needed to be a thing when they could just make the unleveled weapons tradeable just like Syndicate gear without the need to slather it with an additional interface. 

[ixidron92]

hace 4 minutos, Dreddeth dijo:

Assuming that the trading will ultimately be Lich-for-Lich as some have said, the idea that someone would accept having to pay someone plat in a regular trade, before ever even opening Lich trading, is frankly ridiculous.

Le Hypothetical Conman "Trader": "Yeah, no, it's totally legit and not a reportable offense under existing trade policies for me to demand payment for my Lich before giving it to you. It's also the right thing to be doing anyway, because I deserve your plat for lucking into this guy, who I promise has an amazing drop."

Le Buyer Possessing More than Two Brain Cells to Rub Together: "Ha ha ha, no. That seems shady af."

Le Honest Trader: "Hey, I've got this Lich you probably want, and you've got that Lich that I probably want. What do you say we go one-for-one like how Syndicate Augments are often traded?"

Le Buyer Possessing More than Two Brain Cells to Rub Together: "I'm listening."

You don't really get human behavior, right? I predict less than 15 minutes before an "I got scammed" forum post after lich trading comes into existence. Hell, I would be surprised if there weren't any scammers right now scheduling trades for once the lich trading releases.

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, Walkampf said:

He only wants to create toxicity. Nohing more, nothing less.

 

4 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Try to learn to read.

Hiding behind "OP is a troll" while engaging in the very thing you are trying to call out here is quite distasteful. Just disagree with the person if you feel the opposite. They aren't trolling, they are just thinking of a theory about why Lich RNG is so bad. I don't think it's money either, but there's no reason to be so harsh about it.

On topic: I don't think it's money, I just think it's a classic instance of something being grindy on release and being toned down later.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Voltage

[Morndawn]

The only problem I have with Lich is "gathering information" where it takes too long with no progress graduation. And that has no explanation with anything else but "time sink" which is everlasting plaque for Warframe. And if you tell them what they could change, they just do the opposite - when there was a quest attached to a warframe for the last time? They didn't deliver even the last one promised.

That is what is wrong with Warframe - from small fun to play regular updates they said themselves that is the best for Warframe - it was changed to big projects with risky results and boring generic forced daily grind.

 

[Viges]

1 hour ago, ixidron92 said:

It's simple: Money.

The Lich system is their new iteration of Rivens. It's their new moneymaking scheme, and they are testing the mechanics and our responses.

They are gonna make Liches contracts tradeable as they said. So, once the trading begins and the platinum flows, they'll keep adding things to it.

Imagine how much platinum a lich contract with a perfect 60% roll would cost.  Imagine how much an ephemera contract would cost. They've just made tradeable cosmetics a thing!

Now imagine the new additions down the road: New weapons. New elemental combinations. New stat boosts like critical chance or critical damage. The system will basically become Rivenized weapons (and not just weapons, but reskinned existing ones. All the benefits of new content with 0 effort) plus cosmetics as a bonus. It's just ephemeras now, but soon it'll be armor pieces and syandanas as well.

How long before Liches can drop a Kuva Ignis with bonus slash/viral combo and critical+status chance? How much do you think a perfect 60% damage bonus weapon with the right extra stats would cost? 1k platinum? 2k platinum? More? This is just another marketable feature to move platinum around, to make people invest money, time and resources.

RNG is just their way of creating artificial scarcity, much like the riven slot machines.

Time will tell if I'm right or if this is just a nutty conspiracy theory. Once Liches become tradeable, and they analyze the results, we'll truly see what will happen.

Won't work if the game is dead

[DOOMPATRIOT]

Yep, pretty much, I found it hilarious when they say they care about their community.

But as yall say "gO pLaY aNoThEr GaMe".

[Jarriaga]

Depending on how it's implemented, I'll have 2 reactions. 

1 - If they can be traded for plat: I will be extremely disappointed in DE undermining their own systems and gameplay sustainability in the name of additional monetization. It would show that the layers of RNG are psychological manipulation. 

2 - If they can't be traded for plat: I will return to this thread to call out OP on their cynical attitude projecting malice and ill intentions on DE's part as their first choice of reasoning. If they are so callous and distrusting of DE, then they might as well leave the game if they have so little faith on their decency and restraint.