Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, White_Matter said:

False equivalence.

Confronting the Lich is the smarter thing to do(allows you to get more murmur), and more beneficial for teamplay. 

Cutting your leg isn't(unless it has gangrene or bitten by a zombie).

You are trying to equate common sense to the extreme.

Yes, it's called reductio ad absurdum. As for stabbing the lich being the smart thing to do, I've spent way too much time already repeatedly explaining why that's not the case. Refer to my earlier posts.

[BludgePrime]

7 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

The sheer level of narrow-minded, self-righteous hate and toxicity and lack of empathy present in this thread is appalling.

Where's a moderator when you really need one?

Which is not give in to pressure from selfish jerks and bullies but instead take screenshots of the chat, leave the mission, and report any and all players that were harassing you for abusive behavior so they can be properly punished. Don't forget to attach those screenshots!

That's probably not the answer you're thinking of and frankly I don't care. People with attitudes like yours make me sick and you all have no business being in a game that's focused on player cooperation.

It is a game focused on cooperation and by not killing your lich you're not cooperating but griefing the other 3 people in group trying to get their lich to spawn. I'll be sure to screenshot and report every griefer, thanks for the advice.

[White_Matter]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Yes, it's called reductio ad absurdum. As for stabbing the lich being the smart thing to do, I've spent way too much time already repeatedly explaining why that's not the case. Refer to my earlier posts.

You are simply wrong though. Pros outweight the cons, by a landslide. 

 

[SordidDreams]

16 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

You are simply wrong though. Pros outweight the cons, by a landslide.

Only to people who are geared enough to handle level 100 content as easily as level 50 content despite it being twelve times harder, which is only a tiny minority of players. I did explain that previously, you should've done as I suggested and referred back to those posts.

16 minutes ago, BludgePrime said:

by not killing your lich you're not cooperating but griefing the other 3 people in group trying to get their lich to spawn

If you don't like the way people play in pubs, you're more than welcome to reliably spawn your lich in solo.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams

[BludgePrime]

17 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

 

If you don't like the way people play in pubs, you're more than welcome to reliably spawn your lich in solo.

The majority of people in pubs are properly geared up for their liches and kill them. you're just griefing.

[HeeBeeJeeBee]

I popped by the forum to ask about this very thing and here the issue is already addressed...with very divisive opinions. For the vast majority of public sessions where I was not ready to stab, the other players were totally understanding. This last ime though...ouch. Very toxic. After reading several pages, its seems clear the Dev's need to either clearly state multiple liches ARE possible and the presence of anothers makes NO difference. Or make a change in the gameplay. Either the "banish lich" option, multiple lich option (more common if it is already a rare thing), or al least make darn sure a player can't be stuck with only public missions on their start planet before the lich moves on. (I've been stuck a few times).

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, BludgePrime said:

The majority of people in pubs are properly geared up for their liches and kill them. you're just griefing.

Yet that still doesn't give them the right to demand that someone who isn't screw themselves over for their benefit. And no, I'm not.

[Dharma-Beerlite]

15 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Only to people who are geared enough to handle level 100 content as easily as level 50 content despite it being twelve times harder, which is only a tiny minority of players. I did explain that previously, you should've done as I suggested and referred back to those posts.

If you don't like the way people play in pubs, you're more than welcome to reliably spawn your lich in solo.

Firstly, why don't you just stay in your solo or form a team just to keep lich below lvl 2? Instead you guys want jump into random hosts with high lvl lich map generated and griefing pub games players progression? So far I have not seem any group refuse to help anyone killing their low or high lvl lich. Even when sudden spawn of lich at extraction everyone will get out and help up then extract together.

The game mode was created to kill stab lich not escape lich! If someone not ready to deal with high lvl lich or he/she think that keep lich low lvl is the best to go then go play their solo/special team game with escape lich rather then joining the actual game mode in pub matches? 

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Dharma-Beerlite said:

why don't you just stay in your solo or form a team just to keep lich below lvl 2?

Right back at you, why don't you just stay in solo or form a team if you want to reliably spawn your lich?

1 minute ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

Instead you guys want jump into random hosts with high lvl lich map generated and griefing pub games players progression?

Firstly, nobody's griefing anybody. Secondly, I'm sure undergeared players don't want to jump into high-level lich missions, but the game doesn't exactly give them a choice.

[Sintag]

If I'm planning on getting Thralls, I group up.  What I do with my Lich depends.

Generally, if I have zero clue what Requiem Mods I need, I'll:

• Ask my team if anyone else needs their Lich out.  If so, well, time to be given the Bane Special.
• Say I'm ignoring the Lich and advise others to do the same, unless someone else informs me they're gonna kill their Lich.
• Stab any new Thralls in the face.  I mean, I do this anyways, but since Liches seem to passively make Thralls, well, free Murmurs/Requiem Relics.

If nobody else needs their Lich out and is just here for Murmurs, well, great.  Nobody's dying.  But do not assume I know what the hell you want.  You want me to break my back, fine, but speak up or I'm going to carry on as normal.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Sintag

[BludgePrime]

6 minutes ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

Firstly, why don't you just stay in your solo or form a team just to keep lich below lvl 2? Instead you guys want jump into random hosts with high lvl lich map generated and griefing pub games players progression? So far I have not seem any group refuse to help anyone killing their low or high lvl lich. Even when sudden spawn of lich at extraction everyone will get out and help up then extract together.

The game mode was created to kill stab lich not escape lich! If someone not ready to deal with high lvl lich or he/she think that keep lich low lvl is the best to go then go play their solo/special team game with escape lich rather then joining the actual game mode in pub matches? 

100% agree with this. Everyone always helps to kill liches and the only reason people have quit a match because 1 person would not cooperate.

[Dharma-Beerlite]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Right back at you, why don't you just stay in solo or form a team if you want to reliably spawn your lich?

Firstly, nobody's griefing anybody. Secondly, I'm sure undergeared players don't want to jump into high-level lich missions, but the game doesn't exactly give them a choice.

Exactly! run your solo/team with like minded "escape lich mission" game you are sure to get your lvl 1 lich mission? Your argument really dont made sense at all.....

WE DONT SOLO BECAUSE WE ARE WELL GEARED TO TAKE ON ANY LVL 5 LICH AND WILLING TO ASSIST ANYONE STRUGGLE WITH THEIR LVL 5 LICHES... SAY WE SWITCH POSITION CAN THOSE ESCAPE LICH CLUB MEMBER HELP THEM NOW? THINK ABOUT IT PLS

[bad4youLT]

Because of how lich system works , people who are not poking their liches are the problem .

You see player lich only apears in liches controled area , meaning what for people who want to go after their liches it is highly inconvenient to make private party simple because those 4 players would need to check nodes for lich , and if someone doesnt have the same spot that players lich wount apear in the mission meaning player will be waisting hes time .

Public matchmaking skips all of this tedious and inconvenient work , meaning the players what are not poking their liches and affectively preventing other players lich from spawning couse this problem whemselfs .

This players should not go to public matchmaking simple because they are the ones who couse problems.

 

Edit for grammer ( Im not very good in english )

Edited November 15, 2019 by bad4youLT

[bowla]

14 hours ago, Graavarg said:

A new trending behaviour is lich hunters verbally mobbing, bullying and abusing other players in PUB missions in order to force them to attack their personal lich. Presumably in order to get a few more murmurs. This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary. 

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

I don't personally care that much about the nagging, to me it's just a way of saying "hey, I play this game and I am an idiot". But I've now several times seen lower MR players giving to this abuse, and this pisses me off. I also hate bullies, always have and always will.

At this point in time I would even support banning the bullies and abusers for 24h in order to cool them down. I know it is an extra hassle for DE to handle the reports, but it would be unfortunate if this behaviour was allowed to continue as it will presumably lead to "not so experienced" players getting turned off from the lich mechanic. And we've seen all this before, with bosses, events and with trid hunts, just to name a few examples.

You are literally describing selfish behaviour to a T... you are in a group of 4 people 3 of which want their lich to spawn... so you are in the vast minority forcing 3 other people to bend to your will. If you think the other 3 are te selfish ones, you need to reevaluate your life

[bad4youLT]

4 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I still think the best thing that came out of this is the suggestion that you should be able to despawn your lich without going into the kill-or-be-killed situation and so avoiding the lich ranking up.

Your lich spawns in, you don't want to try and kill it, you despawn it, end of story, mission goes on.

 

 

[FlyingDice]

15 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Only to people who are geared enough to handle level 100 content as easily as level 50 content despite it being twelve times harder, which is only a tiny minority of players. I did explain that previously, you should've done as I suggested and referred back to those posts.

If you don't like the way people play in pubs, you're more than welcome to reliably spawn your lich in solo.

One player doesn't want to kill their lich. Three people do.

Why should the one player take priority over the other three?

 

When I want to do something at odds with normal gameplay, I go solo. I don't drop into pub matches trying to unveil a riven with highly specific conditions that won't mesh with how the other three people want to play and then whine when they don't cater to my desires. The fix needs to come from DE, but as it currently stands if you play lich missions in public knowing that you don't intend to attempt your lich, you are griefing.

 

Not to mention that it's always faster to attempt guesses than to grind out all three mods worth of murmurs. Every first guess has a 12.5% chance of automatically giving you the first mod in the sequence and it improves from there, so unless you're tremendously unlucky you'll usually get the first one before you get enough murmurs to unlock any of them. This additionally benefits you because the second and third unlocks require more murmurs, but if you guess the first/second your progress is transferred to the next one over as a % of completion, not hard number of murmurs, saving you more time. Quite a few people have killed liches purely with guesses, no unlocks at all.

 

So when you don't attempt your own lich, not only are you deliberately griefing the rest of the squad, you're doing so in a way which delays your own progress. Good job, you played yourself.

 

Also, only a "tiny minority" of people are geared enough for level 100 enemies? Is this a return of the "people who complete sorties are an elite 1%" belated April Fool's joke? You can kill low-100 enemies with nearly any weapon or damage frame with a potato and five or six mods.

Edited November 16, 2019 by FlyingDice

[sitfesz]

Oh wow, OP holds back others progress, but still goes to pubs, so those players he is about to screw can HELP HIM get more murmur and carry his ass through a certain level content he is otherwise struggling with alone.

And he is the one complaining. Beautiful.

Edited November 16, 2019 by sitfesz

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, FlyingDice said:

One player doesn't want to kill their lich. Three people do.

Why should the one player take priority over the other three?

Because doing as they demand and stabbing the lich can severely screw that player over in the future due to increased difficulty of lich missions as a result of the lich leveling up. Not stabbing the lich, on the other hand, does minimal harm to the other three players.

3 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

as it currently stands if you play lich missions in public knowing that you don't intend to attempt your lich, you are griefing

If that were the case, you'd be able to report them for it and get them banned. Please, do go ahead and try. The more toxic players remove themselves from the player base for blatant abuse of the reporting system, the better.

3 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

it's always faster to attempt guesses than to grind out all three mods worth of murmurs

Not always, only for people who are geared enough to handle level 100 content as easily as level 50 content despite it being twelve times harder, which is only a tiny minority of players. I believe I said that already, in the very post you said this in response to.
 

[Emolition]

13 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Well yeah. What else is the point of playing in a group if not to get help from other people? Seems pretty obvious to me.

This sound abit funny to me as you argue for them to not have to kill the lich. So they do public and get help to down the lich then they refuse the help by not interacting with it. If its help they want for most ppl it wouldnt matter if its a rank 2 or 5 lich as they would down them for the person all they have to do is interact with the lich.

[Aldain]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Because doing as they demand and stabbing the lich can severely screw that player over in the future due to increased difficulty of lich missions as a result of the lich leveling up. Not stabbing the lich, on the other hand, does minimal harm to the other three players.

It should also be noted that none of these people demanding that others stab and level up their Lich are likely to actually help players deal with the now higher level Lich.

If it is selfish for a player to not want to level up their Lich, then what degree of selfishness is it to demand somebody who might not be able to deal with the powered up Lich and then never help them despite the demand that they level up a Lich for the benefit of others?

[JuDirval]

A very easy and simple solution is allow anyone to stab the lich : the stabber, if isn't the lich creator will use automatically the sequence that creator has setted in his parazon like a sort of sharing. Yes I know there are some conseguences like up ranking not wanted by the creator maybe or like a loss of rage when maybe the creator miss just one thrall to discover last requiem mod and doesn't want to build up again that rage for a possible spawn... But this are little things that won't ruin that much the experience compared to the situation we have right now. 

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, JuDirval said:

A very easy and simple solution is allow anyone to stab the lich : the stabber, if isn't the lich creator will use automatically the sequence that creator has setted in his parazon like a sort of sharing. Yes I know there are some conseguences like up ranking not wanted by the creator maybe or like a loss of rage when maybe the creator miss just one thrall to discover last requiem mod and doesn't want to build up again that rage for a possible spawn... But this are little things that won't ruin that much the experience compared to the situation we have right now. 

How about the simpler solution of not leveling the Lich up when it gets stabbed?

There's only two reasons why players don't want to stab them, the automatic death and the automatic level, remove those and I have no doubt people would drive their Lichs off with no issue whatsoever.

[Raqiya]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

It should also be noted that none of these people demanding that others stab and level up their Lich are likely to actually help players deal with the now higher level Lich.

If it is selfish for a player to not want to level up their Lich, then what degree of selfishness is it to demand somebody who might not be able to deal with the powered up Lich and then never help them despite the demand that they level up a Lich for the benefit of others?

If they want help they'll go public. Other people want to stab their Lich's so they'll at least help kill all prerequisite lich's to get to theirs which brings us back to the issue of people not stabbing their Lich's.

If you don't want to kill your Lich and keep them low stick to solo or make a pre-made. With the low levels you don't even need a group and if you can't handle enemies at the lowest then you aren't ready for Kuva Lich's.

[More-L]

This whole damn system just supports toxicity. A level 5 lich is way more difficult than a level 1-3. From my experience, once it gets to 4 the lich gains a huge amount of damage reduction and 5 is even more, which can make it just simply a huge pain the the ass. Especially one with an ogris and a lot of knockdown/teleport mechanics.

Everyone who has any preference for what someone should do in a public lich mission outside of killing thralls and doing the objective is toxic. Why do people who just want to kill their lich run public missions anyway? Is a level 5 too difficult for you to solo? Do they not want to solo a lich? It's almost like some people know level 5 is a pain and do things to actively avoid making their lich level 5 by not wasting attacks on it when they don't need to... this whole thing is just hypocritical and stupid, it needs to be changed in some way because all that is happening is toxicity is getting worse. I don't care if people leave their lich alone, if I desperately want to kill mine I'll just run solo.

DE let multiple lich's spawn (x distance away from each other) or give people a reliable and known way to get rid of them without forcing a level up.

[Test-995]

5 hours ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

Yes it does, the Lich is trying to kill other players, and even succeeds sometimes (My Lich's Janus Key beam is overpowered, kinda). After that the Lich levels up anyways for some dumb reason.

being weak is the problem of players.