ppl with heavy attack problem

[ZeroX4]

i build up fast enough my combo to not to be a side in this problem i just tested today and was willing to ask

since i noticed heavy attack with holding melee button while not in melee mode is kinda long animation anyway
wouldnt solution to ur problem be that u need to hold melee button for whole heavy attack animation while not in melee mode until its delivered or animation cancels and nothing is lost?
on top of that while it starts the animation and u re-press melee button it would perform regular attack would that solve problem or not?

[ranks21]

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague, its that slow and will get you killed. modding for it is also silly cause you lose too much for what little gain there is. it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

Edited November 19, 2019 by ranks21

[ChaoticEdge]

well for the truth everyone talk about it before the melee 3.0 which it turns out their theories was true for you either build combo and just repeatedly pressing e or just smash it pressing heavy attack which people already built some the meta for it all over again even thou the DE nerf condition overload which the guys just set up different one and just spam the heck a doodle spamming E if no one notice the heavy dmg that is the strongest heavy dmg that do with crit.

Spoiler

 

of course we do have stronger melee smasher as well which Arca hammer which some odd reason I read the wiki but the following correct number isn't the same in the game for it was 2850 heavy attack but presume this is must be bug for the weapon or the wiki page.

[AndouRaiton]

10 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague, its that slow and will get you killed. modding for it is also silly cause you lose too much for what little gain there is. it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

False, heavy attacks have proven to be devastatingly strong when built properly, rivalling if not surpassing crit builds, status builds and hybrid builds. And speed isn't really a problem as they benefit from both attack speed and heavy attack wind up mods meaning they can be just as fast as regular (no modded) attacks.

Also the hold 'E' for heavy attack was brought back as some people wanted it back and it messed with things like operator skills. There should be an option to make it so holding 'e' doesn't do heavy attacks for those that don't want it though.

[Uhkretor]

38 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague

... 1-hitting lvl180 Nox Eximus with it is fun though...

 

Edit:

38 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

Forgot to mention that the reason why holding E does the same as the separate Heavy Attack binding is simply because some people are too lazy to actually use the separate binding and cried their lives out to get that thing back, which DE brought back on 26.0.7 "hotfix".

Edited November 19, 2019 by Uhkretor

[ZeroX4]

4 replies so far with no answer to my question

thats speaking for itself

 

[Goodwill]

47 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague, its that slow and will get you killed. modding for it is also silly cause you lose too much for what little gain there is. it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

Ironic calling them "true" melee players when they can't use heavy attacks or it gets them killed. Since we are allowed to throw around anecdotes, here's mine; most true melee players are adaptable and are able to figure out new systems and the pros and cons to them.

3 minutes ago, ZeroZX4 said:

4 replies so far with no answer to my question

thats speaking for itself

 

Sounds more like feedback, I have no issues with it and that's how I usually code "charges" in my games.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Goodwill

[Salenzar]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague, its that slow and will get you killed. modding for it is also silly cause you lose too much for what little gain there is. it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

Oh... my heavy attack build paracesis that does upwards of 1.1m red crits wihout buffs begs to differ. But then again, I'm not a true melee player like you I guess 😄  

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

most true melee players avoid heavy attack like the plague, its that slow and will get you killed. modding for it is also silly cause you lose too much for what little gain there is. it stll isn't even flushed out yet cause holding E does the same thing (heavy attack) as pressing m3 button= bad coding as usual still cant avoid it.

My heavy-attack zaw rapier that oneshots 90% of things and bleeds anything that survives dry would beg to differ. Especially since it also heals me fully, regenerates my energy, and only takes about a third of a second to go out.

Innate Orange Crits on heavy attacks, combined with Organ Shatter and Gladiator Might. I know Killing Blow is popular, and I imagine for the most part it is better for heavy attacks, but the amount of crit I have means I'm stacking multipliers like it's melee 2.0. Honestly, even I am scared of what I have created.

[Nichivo]

2 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

i build up fast enough my combo to not to be a side in this problem i just tested today and was willing to ask

since i noticed heavy attack with holding melee button while not in melee mode is kinda long animation anyway
wouldnt solution to ur problem be that u need to hold melee button for whole heavy attack animation while not in melee mode until its delivered or animation cancels and nothing is lost?
on top of that while it starts the animation and u re-press melee button it would perform regular attack would that solve problem or not?

No! First off it's currently tied to both attack speed, and FPS. Which means it's easy to trigger by accident. Not a problem with a slower weapon, you can always cancel it, with a roll, and not lose the combo counter, however now you are out of position. This does not even address speed builds that can prevent canceling if your reflexes are not top notch, but you still end up out of position.

Apparently people do not understand how animation cancels work, and that one was added to the game.

I also notice people who confuse the Heavy Attacks as pointless, with videos of Heavy Attack damage. Of course you can do damage with heavy attacks when modded for Heavy Attacks, that does not preclude them being pointless. Let me pose a question if the mob you are fighting will die with 20k damage, and you can inflict over 100k with a simple melee attack that is quick, or a million with a heavy attack that is slow and clunky. Which one are you going to use while 20 other mobs are shooting at you? 

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

I also notice people who confuse the Heavy Attacks as pointless, with videos of Heavy Attack damage. Of course you can do damage with heavy attacks when modded for Heavy Attacks, that does not preclude them being pointless. Let me pose a question if the mob you are fighting will die with 20k damage, and you can inflict over 100k with a simple melee attack that is quick, or a million with a heavy attack that is slow and clunky. Which one are you going to use while 20 other mobs are shooting at you? 

Of course in that situation you'll use the quick attack. Thing is, that's not the only situation.

Let me pose a question if the mob you are fighting will die with one million damage, and you have the same attack options. There are five other mobs shooting at you, but the big one does the most damage over the most range, so it needs to be taken care of as quickly as possible. Which attack do you use?

Or another. You have the same attack options, and the same number of enemies shooting at you. However, you now have almost no health left, and the million damage move will heal you. Which move do you use?

 

I have noticed a lot of people effectively getting caught up in min-maxing, identifying the situations they have built to maximise, and disregarding the situations where they've minimised, along with any builds designed for them. Heavy attack builds and light attack builds fill different roles. Light attack is better for crowd control and general use, whereas heavy attacks are more powerful in situations with priority targets or for self-support.

[Nichivo]

18 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Of course in that situation you'll use the quick attack. Thing is, that's not the only situation.

Let me pose a question if the mob you are fighting will die with one million damage, and you have the same attack options. There are five other mobs shooting at you, but the big one does the most damage over the most range, so it needs to be taken care of as quickly as possible. Which attack do you use?

Or another. You have the same attack options, and the same number of enemies shooting at you. However, you now have almost no health left, and the million damage move will heal you. Which move do you use?

 

I have noticed a lot of people effectively getting caught up in min-maxing, identifying the situations they have built to maximise, and disregarding the situations where they've minimised, along with any builds designed for them. Heavy attack builds and light attack builds fill different roles. Light attack is better for crowd control and general use, whereas heavy attacks are more powerful in situations with priority targets or for self-support.

You left out a lot of need to know info, but apparently you have not heard of cc, magus lockdown, and repair. What was shooting at me again? Also how did I get to low health, did I have to go afk, or fall asleep?😜 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Nichivo

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

You left out a lot of need to know info, but apparently you have not heard of cc, magus lockdown, and repair. What was shooting at me again? Also how did I get to low health, did I have to go afk, or fall asleep?😜 

Y'all are doin the exact thing I pointed out. Not everybody has the same playstyle, and that means more things filling more niches is a good thing, because more playstyles are allowed for.

If you don't need or want something for those niches, that's fine. I'm not putting a gun to your head or anything. But calling them useless as a whole because they aren't useful to your playstyle is a little narrow-minded.

[Tyreaus]

3 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

wouldnt solution to ur problem be that u need to hold melee button for whole heavy attack animation while not in melee mode until its delivered or animation cancels and nothing is lost?

So far as I can tell, there's an activation window where you have to press the button down, and then the animation starts. At that point, if you want to cancel it, you would have to roll within that brief half-second. The problem is that, with it being based off attack speed in part, it isn't always obvious right away that it's triggered and players aren't tending to hover over the dodge key to cancel it as a just-in-case. Basically, there's not enough time to cancel it.

If they were to fix it to be like old charge attacks, where you have to hold the button the entire way through independent of frame rate, that may fix it. The emphasis is, albeit, on "may": attack speed and heavy attack speed mods in conjunction could bring the timing window down enough that it can still trigger by accident. Testing would have to be done to make sure, since the wind-up caps at 0.2 seconds. But, at least, it would be much less difficult in combo-oriented mods that have that full half-second-or-so wind-up.

EDIT: I think most people are looking for a solution. Players are often asking for a toggle to disable it outright, but really, I think everybody would be pleased with any solution. The toggle is just the most obviously reliable one.

Does that happen to answer your inquiry? 🙂 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Tyreaus

[Nichivo]

17 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Y'all are doin the exact thing I pointed out. Not everybody has the same playstyle, and that means more things filling more niches is a good thing, because more playstyles are allowed for.

If you don't need or want something for those niches, that's fine. I'm not putting a gun to your head or anything. But calling them useless as a whole because they aren't useful to your playstyle is a little narrow-minded.

The problem is Heavy Attacks do not fill a niche roll. There is a way to handle everything more efficiently than with HA, with one exception throwing canisters, you currently need HA to throw canisters. Wanting to buy more content that requires throwing canisters.🤣

[ranks21]

defend it all you want, heavy weapons are slow af and heavy attacks compounds the issue with their innate slowness. really I don't care if you like it or love it, it is what it is. building a combo multi high enough just to loose it in one attack that the combo itself or swing might miss the target is as asinine as melee has become. i'll take the old finisher damage over this pos any day speaking frankly ( not salty in any way).

at least s2w players had some relevance, but this system is pure trash. warframe has always been about efficiency, whether you shoot with a gun, or melee. 2.0 slide attacks with a whip was the most efficient way next to pole arms, now youre  using a gun more than melee itself. and players whom in the past (recently} not the few that touts how great the new system is<< heck they are always praising whatever bone DE throws out just look at their replies in their thread history, aren't doing much melee anymore.

now after the bloodrush and hype over these couple of weeks and it's simmering down tell me again how great it is. heavy attack is as useless now as it was in 1.0 days  its that bad of a mechanic in a fast paced game.

[ranks21]

4 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

1-hitting lvl180 Nox Eximus with it is fun though

seriously now ...

[Uhkretor]

4 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

seriously now ...

... very seriously.

[0_The_F00l]

I have built a heavy attack based Arca titron, it cannot keep a combo counter active for saving my life, but I don't need it. 

Most enemies die with a few hits and a heavy attack that happens to be a headshot most of the time. 

[Arcira]

Counter question. Why do we need 2 ways of doing the same thing? There is already a button for heavy attacks.

Also performing standard attacks would be a much better purpose for holding down the primary melee button. It´s more convenient, you don´t loose dps and your mouse or keybord buttons will survive with high attack speed weapons.

Optimal solution however would be an keybindings overhaul where you have individual actions for holding down a button, combined keys, context sensitive actions etc. This way you can build for your own preferences.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Arcira

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

heavy attack.... are a niche limited to melee stance with forced slash proc'. So whatever the heavy attack advocate try to say it's not good as a standard gameplay.

make the heavy attack scaling exponential, and deal x1.5^n instead of x(n+1), and you'll see more people using them.

[-Kittens-]

6 hours ago, Nichivo said:

The problem is Heavy Attacks do not fill a niche roll. There is a way to handle everything more efficiently than with HA, with one exception throwing canisters, you currently need HA to throw canisters. Wanting to buy more content that requires throwing canisters.🤣

That's entirely on DE, not players. The "balance" of sparring is quick ass quicks and a giant super nuclear heavy versus the blendy blur that is daggers scythes swords and fists, with super doing 500% raw damage + Combo modifier.

 

Sounds great right, a super crunchy "drama attack" that functions like a fighting game super, except said super is absurdly slow even when compared to hammers and heavy blades AND launches enemies into the next solar system (seriously, the New War will open with Rhino Axe Kicking excal to the new system) so the supposed follow up barage doesn't even hit unless it's a proc immune boss, so you don't even get the super amazing damage listed on the weapon data table to begin with.

You know what would fix this? One thing, one absurdly and i do mean absurdly simply thing. Instead of launching enemies into the moon the kick actually does what it should do even by space animuu uguu nernja logic and literally does what the animation suggest and draws enemies in to be slammed onto the ground, so oyu can either dowen attack or repeat the axe kick or both. Ta da. Instant fix. That's occurred to no one at DE appsrently over the course of reworking melee for over a year. Most other heavy attacks fall under the same role, even red crit hammer swipes. For every Claw Lesson, there are five This is the new and "improved" Zenistar.

And they don't appear to be taking feedback in the slightest other than "make red crits great again"

[ranks21]

10 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

very seriously

that's nothing new, slide attacks before and after maiming strike + blood rush could've killed higher levels enemies with a lowly 3x or even 2.5x multiplier what are you trying to prove here? use the right stance + the frame's and arcane buffs and you get the picture. or you can look up some old endurance vids.

[SneakyErvin]

No mechanic they ever implement will be enough aslong as it stays as a "forced" mechanic. The solution is an option toggle "hold melee for heavy attack", checked or unchecked, players' choice. No more accidental S#&amp;&#036;show mechanics.

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, ranks21 said:

that's nothing new, slide attacks before and after maiming strike + blood rush could've killed higher levels enemies with a lowly 3x or even 2.5x multiplier what are you trying to prove here? use the right stance + the frame's and arcane buffs and you get the picture. or you can look up some old endurance vids.

I'm not proving anything other than its funny to do it and I do it Solo without any kind of buffs, arcanes, Blood Rush and Condition Overload.

 

So, what exactly are you implying?

Edited November 20, 2019 by Uhkretor