Violet_Xe Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 14 hours ago, --C--Nehra said: Only one question? Will I get my umbral forma on Saryn back if nerf happened? Or should I use this as a lesson to never put umbral forma on any decent frame that might be on the nerf radar?? I get this post got alot of support but I can't help but feel it's coming from somewhere unnecessary. You're obviously good at the game and can get more umbral forma down the line, granted it'll take time, but surely you don't think that things can stay the same forever? Being a top tier warframe it's your own fault for putting 2 umbral forma on saryn when there's already people saying she's OP as heck. That's on you. I'm already waiting for Nezha to be hit with a nerf given how powerful he isand i've got 2 umbral forma on him too. I won't complain because things change in this game and many of us make peace with that, especially content creators. Regardless my position on this would be saryn is fine as is. Many players tend to completely disregard the fact that you can still deal damage and be competitive against a saryn with damage. I've done this multiple times and GHS shows that other frames like mirage and volt delete ESO rooms faster than saryn in some cases. Just because Saryn is "queen" doesn't mean she's unrivaled. Her weaknesses are also quite obvious as it takes a very long time and a skilled warframe player to even reach high spore numbers like the feared 100,000 cap. I have NEVER seen recorded, nor reported, or witnessed this damage be reached and even if I did there's no way I could say it's been consistently achieved. The thing is DE is at fault here, not saryn. Her 3.0 form is amazing but it needs and I mean NEEDS higher level content to shine and it makes sense because sedna is literally the hardest planet of the star chart with debatably the hardest boss. Her potential should be high. But due to DE's incompetence at making content which doesn't favor outright death. I guarantee you people complaining about her deleting enemies in different tiles don't see saryns running in 3 hour survivals. She doesn't instantly eat high level enemies but she is an AoE status damage dealer with some durability to her. Even if DE did want to nerf her they could do so indirectly with new enemies, new health types, new mission types, and actually difficult bosses. In certain circumstances she is absolutely terrible like in radiation hazards where saryn slips once and oops, her team's been wiped by her own hands. Or fighting massive health bosses she will falter because she isn't a single target damage dealer. That brings me to my next point, where she is queen. Many players forget saryn is good at what she does, but is bad or passable at other areas. Saryn is queen of ESO. Nova is the goddess of Defense. Nekros is bone daddy of loot grinding. Inaros is the unkillable solo runner. Chroma is the Eidolon Slayer. Loki is the endless master race. So many warframes have titles and are seen as powerful but do you see inaros, nova, loki, chroma, or nekros in ESO... hell no you don't they don't kill trash enemies in mass. If DE could learn how to craft mission types that don't involve killing as it's primary focus you might see a rise in popularity for a variety of other warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Xe Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Foefaller said: What build does this? Genuinely curious, because I don't often see Mirage in ESO, and it's usually a HoM build, which while powerful, isn't usually "beats Saryn to killing enemies noone can see" powerful. Does it use Explosive Legerdemain? yes, it does. The drops from it cause explosions and it performs good up to a certain extent of ESO. But saryn does overtake her as time progresses as her damage can scale, but mirage's flatlines. That being said it's not like players need to go that long so mirage is a rival to her title of "queen". GHS has a video on the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shemarria Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Pablo can keep his mitts off Mama-Saryn; she was nerfed HARD the first time with getting rid of her husk-then-spore trap and hammering her miasama into near useless level (whch was fixed with change 2.5). A second major nerf will well and truly kill her playability and REALLY piss people off who A) bought her through prime-access. B) used their Umbra's on her. THAT is a deal breaker. No argument. Full stop. IF he does go ahead and destroy her ultility, then DE, by rights, should fully refund all Umbra mods and monies paid for Prime-access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellas92 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) Why the hell was my topic moved here ? It was not about Pablo it was about reworks in general. Edited December 3, 2019 by Fellas92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilomaniac Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: You are either conflating or assuming a few things so allow me to clear those up... Me citing common sense and common knowledge as a "beef". Calling crappy behavior in groups the Meta. Prescribing solutions you, yourself, should be taking as the solution for others instead. Calling a Frame or mechanic inconsiderate when, in fact, it's the player instead. It's not that I'm happy about a potential nerf...I'm just not surprised. Well, you seem like you have a beef, especially considering the passive aggressiveness. Whether it's your intention or not, you're being rude. The solution I preach is one that I *did* take myself, which is why I recommend it. I still play in PUGs occasionally and I leave the games where there is a problem. In other words I fix my own issue rather than going to the forum to whine about what others do. 10 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: i.e. 1>3 Whether you realize it or not...That says alot about you. Either your math is horrendous or you think others exist merely for your benefit imo. In that case your argument is for the tyranny of the majority (or rather the loud minority posing as the majority). To explain it as briefly as I can, there are other values than just appeasing the majority, such as integrity or artistry. While both of us can agree this isn't about art, there is an argument to be made that DE does not have stellar integrity and they are absolutely not consistent, which means some of their decisions are blatantly made to appease whiners. Like you said above, you're not surprised and neither am I. Doesn't mean it's right, beneficial or good. 19 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: That Guy A fellow warhammer player I assume? Whether you like it or not, that guy is part of the community. You have to live side by side with him and the sooner you learn to ignore him the sooner you'll be happier in general. Railing against him is utterly counterproductive. Luckily for you the solution I proposed fixes all your issues. If you can't handle other people, don't PUG. It's as simple as that and that should be DE's proposed solution whenever these things come up, for the sake of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Fellas92 said: Why the hell was my topic moved here ? It was not about Pablo it was about reworks in general. lol we got :"general discussion" zoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foefaller Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said: yes, it does. The drops from it cause explosions and it performs good up to a certain extent of ESO. But saryn does overtake her as time progresses as her damage can scale, but mirage's flatlines. That being said it's not like players need to go that long so mirage is a rival to her title of "queen". GHS has a video on the build. Interesting. I would think that Saryn and Mirage synergize quite well with each other using that build; Saryn killing the first wave or two close enough to their spawn that when Mirage drops EL new enemies spawn right on top of the last waves drops, get blown up and die, leaving new drops to EL and spreading any spores on them since they died from something other than spores. Makes me kinda wonder by how much it beats other frames in groups w/o Saryn or solo. Don't doubt she can get to Round 8 solo, but Saryn prior to her rework would get a force multiplier effect from nuke frames that were popping her spores with their AOE as they were murdering what they could see. FWIW, I don't think "Saryn in broken OP" and "ESO needs fixing" are mutually exclusive things. If something like Saryn is the only way most people can pass Round 8 ESO, even if I personally have several builds that can help carry a group that far without a Saryn, then ESO does need to be looked at, but that change wouldn't stop Saryn being miles better than almost any other frame or build most people come up with in ESO, or other mission types where she often effortlessly dominates. Edited December 3, 2019 by Foefaller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Xe Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Shemarria said: Pablo can keep his mitts off Mama-Saryn; she was nerfed HARD the first time with getting rid of her husk-then-spore trap and hammering her miasama into near useless level (whch was fixed with change 2.5). A second major nerf will well and truly kill her playability and REALLY piss people off who A) bought her through prime-access. B) used their Umbra's on her. THAT is a deal breaker. No argument. Full stop. IF he does go ahead and destroy her ultility, then DE, by rights, should fully refund all Umbra mods and monies paid for Prime-access. I will agree with you to keep away from saryn, but I don't think you're right about the nerf to saryn. Popularity and general consensus of the community pretty much says she got stronger. Just because your playstyle was hit doesn't mean her other aspects improved and new builds didn't rise from that build's ashes. Again though you put umbral forma on her and bought that acces knowing she was powerful. If she does get nerfed I'll be disappointed but I won't be surprised. Asking fora full refund of forma I think is intense and I can debate on that but asking for money is crossing the line no? They aren't legally obligated to refund you after you spent the money and given warframe's history it's on you 110% even after *maybe* reading and *definitely* agreeing to the contact to play warframe. Iget that it's a touchy subject but seriously asking the company for $100 after you've used and invested in the product is beyond insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Foefaller said: ~snip~ i had someone playing max range mirage with high strength actually break enemy spawn in corpus survival fissure with slight of hand. probably he was also using explosive legerdemain. Edited December 3, 2019 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 59 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: 1) I'm perfectly calm about this. 2) I dont buy this "well a nerf isnt confirmed" mentality. Pablo said, among other things "it has to happen." He might not be "working on it RIGHT NOW" But based on his comments it seems like hes at the very least considering it. People should be worried. why should anyone be worried. she will receive a well deserved nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: why should anyone be worried. she will receive a well deserved nerf. And probably go from being queen of one game mode to being useless period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: And probably go from being queen of one game mode to being useless period. doubt it. a frame can be high DPS without rendering an area empty. range nerfs/LoS will go a long way at removing her from being problematic in a team. her damage is fine otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 42 minutes ago, Shemarria said: IF he does go ahead and destroy her ultility, then DE, by rights, should fully refund all Umbra mods and monies paid for Prime-access. That's not how the buff/nerf cycle works in any game ever. Nor will it ever work that way. Sorry! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Xe Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: doubt it. a frame can be high DPS without rendering an area empty. range nerfs/LoS will go a long way at removing her from being problematic in a team. her damage is fine otherwise. She will still be powerful but the change to her spores will crush her. You'll just see the community rotate to another warframe. Nerfing saryn isn't the answer here. Simply put, saryn isn't all too powerful. It's the content that's too easy. As I said before she needs harder content to shine and show where her weaknesses lie. If your problem is with removing entire rooms then Volt and Mirage should be something you have issues with too being capable of deleting a room faster than saryn in some cases. The only range nerf I'd say is ok on her is a large radius around saryn where spores can survive and deal damage. Outside this radius spores cannot spread but this would still need to be a large LARGE radius. I'm still going to stick to saying she doesn't need a rework but the game does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikusias Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 SAryn's problem derives all from one single stupid change Pablo gave her: making her spores corrosive instead of viral as they were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Violet_Xe said: She will still be powerful but the change to her spores will crush her. You'll just see the community rotate to another warframe. Nerfing saryn isn't the answer here. Simply put, saryn isn't all too powerful. It's the content that's too easy. As I said before she needs harder content to shine and show where her weaknesses lie. If your problem is with removing entire rooms then Volt and Mirage should be something you have issues with too being capable of deleting a room faster than saryn in some cases. The only range nerf I'd say is ok on her is a large radius around saryn where spores can survive and deal damage. Outside this radius spores cannot spread but this would still need to be a large LARGE radius. I'm still going to stick to saying she doesn't need a rework but the game does any rework to the game will see a complete overhaul of all 42 frames. you cannot have one without the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CodyXSavageX Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ikusias said: SAryn's problem derives all from one single stupid change Pablo gave her: making her spores corrosive instead of viral as they were I like that her miasma is viral and spores are corrosive it just feels right in terms in how they are used Edited December 3, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 hours ago, SastusBulbas said: I gave an opinion. Now regardless of yours, other companies selling digital goods have actually been in that place and I am pretty sure you can look online to see just how customer backlash and various other situations to do with digital purchases affected other games. BFP4F never recovered fully from P2W and still with an active player base that paid shut the servers. Yet right to the end still sold the same packages. WoT, it may not be well documented, but players have rolled back months of credit card payments and simply been banned. Done due to changes, and WoT at the time could not take action. But wait, WG now put a little more effort into premium vehicles, and have offered refunds or exchanges in past. Because a community deemed it wrong to pay for goods and have them changed. Oh and they too have an EULA that is pretty much like all online games. Why am I here, well I was here in Beta, left shortly after, came back in Sept 2018. Because my son asked me to. I have spent a fair amount on this game. I enjoy the game. Does not mean their plat is good value, and to be honest, this situation of nerfing and changing and claiming beta on a game we were all playing years ago, just excuses. If the game was better produced there would be little need to nerf everything. In fact, if the game was progressing beta players would not ve going same old and old frames would be power creeped, not needing nerfed. Or at least there would be a point where during development someone realises what is op. I still remember returning to players with Banshee and Ember, running around IO thinking I want that. A year later with a new account on xbox and thinking, did I just waste £50. The games barely changed, they keep changing stuff, why the hell do I keep spending money. Love the mentality of why you here! Instead of the mentality of wait a minute, paying customers are getting irritated. But thats modern customer service and game community mentality I guess. Will I leave? Well I would have to be an idiot to leave after investing so much. But here, I work for a business that has won retail awards, I wonder if thats due to having a slight grasp on customer service and knowing how to do a job right instead of half cocked with a who the hell does that customer think he is. And it was a dumb ill informed opinion that didn't make a lick of actual sense for the kind of product in discussion. People pay for this game to keep developing and being expanded and having DE realize their idea of a good game, they aren't paying them to preserve your precious little ego and to heed to your shortsightedness. If you think you have a better scope then DE on making a satisfying game experience go ahead and make your own successful franchise then, otherwise I need it to be perfectly clear, nobody is supporting this game to have any of your visions realized, they are paying for DE to run this game, and to put out their visions, full stop. Your ego has nothing to do with anyone else in this game and does not speak for its success or what people want. That said, maybe the live service model isn't for you if you can't wrap your head around how it works or see past buzz words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Xe Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, EinheriarJudith said: any rework to the game will see a complete overhaul of all 42 frames. you cannot have one without the other. Not true. If any developer were smart and knew where they were going to go int he future of the game, they could theoretically craft the frame to fit the future of the game and never need to overhaul the warframe kits. Simialrly missions can be crafted with modern and previous warframe kits in mind to favor those warframes but keep them balanced. I don't blame them for 1 or 2 reworks but going past that is a failure on the developer's side. You can have both and DE should be trying to do this because it makes less work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: And probably go from being queen of one game mode to being useless period. Once you get far enough in the game you'll realize how wrong that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikusias Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said: I like that her miasma is viral and spores are corrosive it just feels right in terms in how they are used Yes it makes more sense, but this way Saryn was given the best tool against the worst scaling defense in game, making her spores a big outlier in terms of power among all warframe #1 powers. Old spores were a nice debuff, halving enemies' health without killing them and setting thigs up for the rest of the squad, with miasma as a finisher and stun. Now instead Saryn is an anti team player simply because she evaporates everything in starchart at rooms of range. Not even Equinox does that, and she needs her squad to do damage in order to release the nuke side of maim Edited December 4, 2019 by Ikusias corrected a pair minor typos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traybong111 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 45 minutes ago, Shemarria said: IF he does go ahead and destroy her ultility, then DE, by rights, should fully refund all Umbra mods and monies paid for Prime-access. My 2014 Nyx Prime Access receipt: oh you blissful, ignorant child... I really don't want to repeat the dead meme about hurr durr entitled gaemrs but you're really not helping me here bud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said: Not true. If any developer were smart and knew where they were going to go int he future of the game, they could theoretically craft the frame to fit the future of the game and never need to overhaul the warframe kits. Simialrly missions can be crafted with modern and previous warframe kits in mind to favor those warframes but keep them balanced. I don't blame them for 1 or 2 reworks but going past that is a failure on the developer's side. You can have both and DE should be trying to do this because it makes less work for them. yes i agree if they had a design path they stuck to strictly, we wouldnt have as many problems as we do now. im not a fan of having classes/frame/skills that constantly get reworked because "something in the matrix code changed" lol. but they are unwilling to do the necessary overhaul. when i saw that video of mogamu interviewing them i was shocked to hear the words they said. fear of changes being so unpopular that people jump to the next game. so the game stays broken and continues to be broken in favor of keeping people rather than fixing whats broken and evolving from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 hours ago, JackHargreav said: I think making her 1st a line of sight ability would be enough. That would kill her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ikusias said: Yes it makes more sense, actually no it doesnt make sense. Virus: an infective agent that typically consists of a nucleic acid molecule in a protein coat, is too small to be seen by light microscopy, and is able to multiply only within the living cells of a host this is what spore is. it was correct that spores did viral damage and miasma did corrosive. people in fact were simply asking that they add status chance to miasma so it could strip armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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