Now that DE are back, lets remind them that the current vacuum is insufficient and we need a loot radar (For the pilot at least).

[kgptzac]

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

Why needs there be a vacuum range at all?  What do you and the players get to lose if all drops in space are automatically looted?  Having to manually seek loot--now with huge UI markers--provides no meaningful addition to the gameplay, and should be done away with entirely.

[ThisIsMyWarframe]

 

 

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Danielle a dit :

We are doing just that in the Hotfix we have planned on PC coming up real soon! We've added permanent in-world markers on Avionics and Salvage so that you and your squad mates can't miss them - this has been a huge request considering how important loot awareness is in general, and especially important since Avionics are such a core component to your Railjack. This is in addition to also adding Battle Avionics as potential drops from Elite Fighters in Deep Space. 

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

Great change for the first thing mentionned. 

 

But I Just dont understand why DE team is so adamant against better vacuum . There is nothing fun about looting for 10 min when the mission avg time is already a lot longer than normal gameplay loop. It all Come down to the same criticism : DE team dont value the time of their players

[GutCushion]

Just now, MunsuLight said:

Great change for the first thing mentionned. 

 

But I Just dont understand why DE team is so adamant against better vacuum . There is nothing fun about looting for 10 min when the mission avg time is already a lot longer than normal gameplay loop. It all Come down to the same criticism : DE team dont value the time of their players

Am I crazy for thinking that everything dropped in space should be auto-collected? It's just so expansive and makes resource collecting so tedious.

[MunsuLight]

il y a 5 minutes, GutCushion a dit :

Am I crazy for thinking that everything dropped in space should be auto-collected? It's just so expansive and makes resource collecting so tedious.

@[DE]Danielledont think it should be auto collected but damn the different feeling of when you play a normal mission and a railjack mission is like night and Day. 

Normal mission vacuum loot doesnt break the flow of the said mission and it is fast paced but not hectic. RJ is slower paced but more hectic so collecting loot is not the first thing you wanna do. You just want to complete the mission. So why an hectic mode where looting is like coming 4th have such pitiful looting vacuum capabilities that break the other mode game flow.  The only reason People tend to believe (tinfoil theory) is that your team want us to miss uswful things ( I dont believe this theory but I can see why People think like that)

Again, your team should really think more about it because we all know what happen with the "reviewed" things : they  are swept under the rug (lich , grendel ember vauban rework recently)

[sitfesz]

Be ready for those permanent markers to be permanent in like 500 meters range.
It wouldn't even surprise me (not because it would be right, but because of the stubborn and stupid loot policy in this game).

Edited January 8, 2020 by sitfesz

[sam686]

Railjack's vacuum seems kind of poor. Maybe a vacuum Avionics might help. Railjack pilot unable to place waypoints.

For Archwing, companion's vacuum mod does nothing while in archwing mode in Empyrean. 50m pick up range + vacuum = 50m vacuum pick up range?

Companion's Animal instinct does work to see loot on map in Archwing mode, but stops working on Archwing death and respawn. Companion Archwing respawn bug now happens to Empyrean mission. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1025024-respawn-while-archwing-companion-dead-until-archwing-exit/

 

[PlagueOfGripes]

4 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are doing just that in the Hotfix we have planned on PC coming up real soon! We've added permanent in-world markers on Avionics and Salvage so that you and your squad mates can't miss them - this has been a huge request considering how important loot awareness is in general, and especially important since Avionics are such a core component to your Railjack. This is in addition to also adding Battle Avionics as potential drops from Elite Fighters in Deep Space. 

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

Just... don't have vacuum. Just put the damned things into player inventories.

"Do we really have to keep teaching you this lesson, old man?"

[taiiat]

we must remember that elsewhere in the game, such global Waypoints on loot usually only shows when you're within a certain distance of it, which in Railjack could easily mean you'll never see the Waypoint...

but even waiving that, Waypoints will certainly help somewhat but we must remember that we're not playing in a 2000² Meter Mission anymore in Railjack, we're playing in a 20,000³ Meter Mission.... but only have maximum Pickup Ranges of 50 Meters and 250 Meters?
we've gone from average distances being about a maximum of 1 Kilometer, to distances being literally anywhere in 3D space up to or exceeding 10,000 Kilometers away.

even 150 Meters for Archwing and 750 Meters for the Railjack would not be especially crazy or allowing for AFKfarming. because the map is just that big.
as it is now, 50 Meters for the Archwing means you almost have to come into physical contact to pickup an item. that's ridiculous. and for the Railjack you still have to fly almost within arms reach.

Edited January 8, 2020 by taiiat

[ValinorAtani]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb [DE]Danielle:

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

Just raise it. Besides technical implementation issues there is absolutely no reason to review it.

Edited January 9, 2020 by ValinorAtani

[rabidpirate]

Vacuum shouldn't even be a thing anymore. Just award drops to all players as the enemies are killed. 

Flying around RJ missions sweeping things up is just adding chores and doesn't respect the player's time in an already very time-sinky game mode. 

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, rabidpirate said:

Flying around RJ missions sweeping things up is just adding chores and doesn't respect the player's time in an already very time-sinky game mode.

Depends on the player. I'm perfectly ok with it.

[LegendaryNeurotoxin]

10 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are doing just that in the Hotfix we have planned on PC coming up real soon! We've added permanent in-world markers on Avionics and Salvage so that you and your squad mates can't miss them - this has been a huge request considering how important loot awareness is in general, and especially important since Avionics are such a core component to your Railjack. This is in addition to also adding Battle Avionics as potential drops from Elite Fighters in Deep Space. 

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

I'd love to have a toggle to turn them on or off with a key press, or be able to set my aim mechanism to filter out loot and restore loot indicators in standard zoom. 

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

11 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are doing just that in the Hotfix we have planned on PC coming up real soon! We've added permanent in-world markers on Avionics and Salvage so that you and your squad mates can't miss them - this has been a huge request considering how important loot awareness is in general, and especially important since Avionics are such a core component to your Railjack. This is in addition to also adding Battle Avionics as potential drops from Elite Fighters in Deep Space. 

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

The idea of the screen clogged with markers is not ideal at all imho

[Lers]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

The idea of the screen clogged with markers is not ideal at all imho

Its not, but we're not getting that many avionics drops either per mission... or so I would think, but I guess we'll see how much of them I was missing in the course of a normal farming mission thus far.

[SECURATYYY]

17 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are doing just that in the Hotfix we have planned on PC coming up real soon! We've added permanent in-world markers on Avionics and Salvage so that you and your squad mates can't miss them - this has been a huge request considering how important loot awareness is in general, and especially important since Avionics are such a core component to your Railjack. This is in addition to also adding Battle Avionics as potential drops from Elite Fighters in Deep Space. 

As for the discussion on the Railjack's vacuum range, that is something we are currently reviewing! 

Super massive vacuum range please. For both RJ and AW. Considering how important the regular drops are as well, its a bit of a necessity.

[Steel_Rook]

On 2020-01-08 at 11:52 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

Naw. I just want all space drops to go straight to your inventory. No pick-up needed.

This is my opinion as well. Mind you, I'd like to see this in the entire game, but let's just stick to Railjack for now. Get rid of ALL item drops within Railjack. Anything that drops, deposit it into player inventories immediately. Do this at any distance, including inside Points of Interest and ship interiors.

 

On 2020-01-07 at 4:17 PM, SpawnTDK said:

but HELL NO, not on the map. because it is already horrible to navigate in a 3 dimensional room, with a 2 dimensional map. it's a really bad implementation in a "modern" game.

So don't use it. Having an exterior map with loot detection (if DE insist on having physical drops), enemy detection and debris clusters would be very useful, even if it doesn't show height. The Railjack auto-levels when you let it go and you have an artificial horizon on it anyway while Arcwings are always orientated relative to the horizon. I'd rather have a map without altitude data than not have a map at all.

[Tsukinoki]

5 hours ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

The idea of the screen clogged with markers is not ideal at all imho

I really doubt that we'll get that many drops in a mission.
It's not like they are going to mark resources, just the avionics and salvage which don't drop that much (especially the salvage since only two enemies currently drop them and they are both very limited in number per mission)

11 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

This is my opinion as well. Mind you, I'd like to see this in the entire game, but let's just stick to Railjack for now. Get rid of ALL item drops within Railjack. Anything that drops, deposit it into player inventories immediately. Do this at any distance, including inside Points of Interest and ship interiors.

While I can see it for railjack mission I don't think it should apply to the rest of the game.
We shouldn't be making AFKing that much easier and more profitable than it already is because at that point you wouldn't even need to keep up with the group to get the drops.

Having look that requires it to be physically interacted with and picked up means that you actually have to do something if you want to get the stuff, and that's better than just being able to AFK macro in the arrival tile and still get 100% of the rewards from the mission.

[SpawnTDK]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb Steel_Rook:

So don't use it. Having an exterior map with loot detection (if DE insist on having physical drops), enemy detection and debris clusters would be very useful, even if it doesn't show height. The Railjack auto-levels when you let it go and you have an artificial horizon on it anyway while Arcwings are always orientated relative to the horizon. I'd rather have a map without altitude data than not have a map at all.

 

the map is even in normal wf bad, this becomes very obvious in multi layered map, when you have multible floors and path finding becomes guessing.

a better solution for normal gameplay can be seen in DOOM (2016), and for railjack take ELITE DANGEROUS for an example.
both examples are on a whole other level.

 

my guess is: that many problems/limitations with the loot are comming from the netcode and/or bad host preformance (this is a common problem). one if the reasons why i think player based sessions are nothing that benefits the wf community at all.

Edited January 9, 2020 by SpawnTDK

[Steel_Rook]

43 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

While I can see it for railjack mission I don't think it should apply to the rest of the game. We shouldn't be making AFKing that much easier and more profitable than it already is because at that point you wouldn't even need to keep up with the group to get the drops. Having look that requires it to be physically interacted with and picked up means that you actually have to do something if you want to get the stuff, and that's better than just being able to AFK macro in the arrival tile and still get 100% of the rewards from the mission.

You're kind of throwing away the baby with the bathwater there, though, creating a massive inconvenience across all players just to combat a few leeches that other systems can typically combat, such as host kicks or vote kicks or better inactivity detection, etc. I'm someone who very rarely plays on public lobbies. I mostly play with friends, and what that results in is one person running around the map opening lockers and smashing containers with 2-3 others trailing behind just so we can all get all of the pick-ups. This results in a lot of calls over voice to the tune of "Wait, I haven't been in this room yet!" and "I picked up an Argon Crystal somewhere around here. Did everyone else get it?" It's pointless busywork which doesn't really contribute to the experience.

I know loot dropping directly into your inventory works because City of Heroes did this precise thing and it worked just fine, even with leechers and such. It ensured everyone got everything (though XP was similarly distance-restricted as it is here, 200 feet vs. 50 meters) and ensured that the team could effectively split up without everyone then having to go sweep up the map afterwards.

DE talked about "cleaning up after the mission" in the latest dev stream I saw, specifically in relation to Railjack. They liked the idea of a team staying behind and scavenging for more loot rather than immediately rushing off to the next instance. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, as I'm the sort of person who opens every locker and breaks every container. My irritation stems from how easy it is for individual players to miss out on a LOT of loot and on very valuable drops through no fault of their own. This isn't an issue of AFK. It could be as simple as me finding a rare drop and assuming my buddie is directly behind me, while he's still fighting elsewhere in the room and never notices me peel off. If I didn't notice the drop I wouldn't think to announce it on voice and he might no go into that specific little niche to look for it.

In short, I feel it's more important that everyone get everything the team earned in a mission even if some people didn't earn it, than it is to ensure that people get ONLY the loot they earned. I'd rather people get loot they didn't earn than people lose loot they deserved to get.

 

46 minutes ago, SpawnTDK said:

the map is even in normal wf bad, this becomes very obvious in multi layered map, when you have multible floors and path finding becomes guessing. a better solution for normal gameplay can be seen in DOOM (2016), and for railjack take ELITE DANGEROUS for an example. both examples are on a whole other level.

I personally found the Doom 4 map to be more confusing than useful in execution. 3D maps require you to pause the game and manipulate perspective to get full use out of them, whereas Warframe's 2D map can be glanced at passively off in the corner of my screen. No, it doesn't carry as much information but it carries all the information I strictly care about: where am I in relation to the rest of the room, where am I in relation to loot. I very, VERY rarely pull up the full-screen Diablo style display of them ap because that's almost never useful with the tree graph design of Warframe. Rooms rarely overlap vertically - rare enough that I've never had an issue with it - and the map does tend to tint them from blue (below) to brown (above) in those cases. Mind you, I'm not saying the map couldn't be improved - I'd like to see tile-to-tile transitions marked in some way so I can more easily find them, and then marked again once I've approached them so I can tell FROM THE MAP whether a door connects to another room or whether it's sealed.

The same could easily apply to Railjack. While a 2D map wouldn't tell me everything I need to know, it would still tell me where I am in relation to surrounding debris, enemy fighters and loot. I can handle the Z axis myself via my own view controls. And besides, Warframe already has map marker indications for "below you" and "above you." I'm not opposed to having a 3D full-screen map, but what I REALLY want is a minimap. Even if it's not perfect, I'd rather HAVE it than not have it.

[ciTiger]

indeed, this needs to change.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I really doubt that we'll get that many drops in a mission.
It's not like they are going to mark resources, just the avionics and salvage which don't drop that much (especially the salvage since only two enemies currently drop them and they are both very limited in number per mission)

 

I must say that I already hate the system with the sentient cores

[Hobie-wan]

On 2020-01-07 at 7:18 AM, DraekoSilver said:

As the title says, the vacuum and loot radar systems both need looking into.

I won't be able to play and see if it's changed with the update until this evening, but vacuum distance has been straight up broken since at least the pre-break hotfix flurry. It wasn't even up to the supposed pre-buff range, much less the range they said they buffed it to.

 

[(XBOX)SiwawerPower]

DE please just make ON and OFF switch for vacuum, some players don’t want it.

Edited January 9, 2020 by (XB1)VintarDragon16