Warframe Revised: Mission Reward Cleanup Megathread

SilverBones · March 2, 2020

Reward Cleanup: Base Missions
Base Missions are getting a small cleanup for this Mainline. For reference, all tables are currently available at www.warframe.com/droptables.

This change will be told from the perspective of a single node for example purposes, but the logic applies gamewide to Base Missions - which is to say, the Node on the Star chart (excluding special missions like the Index, Open Worlds, Rathuum, Assassination).

Consider the node Memphis, Phobos.

Base Missions like Memphis are receiving a bit of ‘fat trimming’ in terms of the lowest-point rewards available within them. For example,‘Memphis’ on ‘Phobos’ will have its 500, 1,000, 1,500 Credit Caches removed, as well as the 15 and 50 Endo. This will only leave the 2,000 Credits Cache, and a new 100 Endo drop for each category, with a drop chance of the sum of all prior denominations.

Why:
This is more of a Review and clean up for some of the less-rewarding aspects of missions. Right now the base Solar Map nodes exist to progress from planet to planet, while providing either general rewards (Mods, Credits) or specific return rewards (Ivara, Nidus, etc). By getting rid of the lower value items on the general rewards, people playing for the first time should come across a bit of a bump in their resources and credits. We have more plans for this to write about at a later date.

Please remember to leave your feedback in a constructive and civil manner! Remember, this thread is for FEEDBACK ONLY. If you have a bug, please make sure you submit your bug on this thread and follow the new guidelines!

ToaSirian · March 5, 2020

yo, we need copious amounts of credits (and endo) to get anywhere in this game.

EDIT: there are a TON of mods that need credits, oftet 300k up to 900k(!), weapon blueprints cost 15k to 25k, build cost between 15k to 25k. Fieldron/detonite/mutagen need 15k for a one time use bp, and 15k to build. i know invasions exist, but one can only do so many before those get tiresome. (And that's why the missions need extra credit drops.)

ALL the base missions are only worth doing because they are mandatory for arbitrations later in game. Now, Memphis, Phobos, is a mission fairly early in game, so 2000 credits i find a little low, but fair. Now consider a node like, uuuh, Adaro, Sedna. There, I don't think 2000 credits is reasonable. You've already unlocked the Index at that point, and be around mr 8. This is where the real grind starts, to get to at least mr 15 to be able to use all rivens and kuva weapons.

Credits need to be scaled up towards the end of the star chart.

Edited March 5, 2020 by ToaSirian

Lightel03 · March 5, 2020

Thank you.

It would be quite the icing on the cake if you`d implement scaling rewards aswell.

elanti2000 · March 5, 2020

This is something that has bugged me for a long time but it would be interesting to buff the Sabotage Cache Rewards while you are at it.

Zarcxon · March 5, 2020

can we get scaling rewards, and remove singular mods as rewards, i really dont want another trick mag.

Etrexum · March 5, 2020

This is a step forward, but it will be better if you just got rid of credit caches entirely and just increased the base amount of credits of the end of mission reward.

Also, rare rewards from sabotage missions (and other missions with locker caches) are too rare for how much time and effort they require (I have been trying to get any Xiphos part for quite a while with no luck, but in comparasion it's not like it would be that expensive if I bought it with platinum, though I want to get it "fairly").

-Zr-Scroll · March 5, 2020

This is a good starting point to remove dilution from droptables.

Mission completion on node (Kuva Fortress / Assault / Koro) does not have a DropTable attached to it. It only rewards 3800 credits on completion.

Caches used to be the DropTable there (Rot A for Completion + 3 caches ABC = 4 rewards), but since Caches were moved to Exterminate (Kuva Fortress/Dakata (Caches)) Assault/Koro has been without rewards.

And now looking at Dakata/Caches in https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html and specifically B and C rotations, there is multiple entries for Endo, which seems odd compared to like Mercury/Apollodorus (Survival), which only has 50% credit and 50% Endo chances. I understand that they were simply replaced and this is a minor issue, but still.

I eagerly await what this entails:

Quote

We have more plans for this to write about at a later date.

March 6, 2020

Not necessarily about the game itself and more about the drop table site. However with the cleanup there are now multiple duplicate "Uncommon" drops on the one node.

Venus/Malva (Survival)
Rotation A
2,000 Credits Cache	Uncommon (14.29%)
2,000 Credits Cache	Uncommon (14.29%)
2,000 Credits Cache	Uncommon (14.29%)
2,000 Credits Cache	Uncommon (14.29%)
100 Endo	Uncommon (14.29%)
100 Endo	Uncommon (14.29%)
100 Endo	Uncommon (14.29%)

Almost all spy missions now have this problem as well for Rotation A

Qamelion · March 6, 2020

I just wanted to say thank you and also ask for difficulty tiers like in The Division 2 or Destiny 2 (have scaling rewards of course).

In The Division 2 they have an interesting "global difficulty level":
- Normal
- Hard
- Challenging
- Heroic

Destiny 2:
The raids there have the difficulty:
- Normal
- Prestige

Weekly Nightfall missions:
- Adept
- Hero
- Legend
- Master

I think a similar implementation for Warframe would be a game changer.

Cherac · March 6, 2020

This change is nice, but what you really should consider is removing all the mods from the mission reward tables.

After Endo was added, duplicate mods haven't had any value beyond what they sell for and most of the mods that have any trade value are obtained through other means.
Sure, duplicates can always be used for transmutations for a chance to get a missing or more valuable mod but farming mission rewards for transmutation fuel is inefficient.

To put it simply, duplicate mods are just mini-caches of 5–15 Endo or 200–1000 credits.

There is no way anyone with decent playtime in the game is going to feel like their time isn't wasted when they run 15 minutes of tier 3 survival to get another "Rare" (6.67% drop chance) Steel Fiber (5 Endo/200 credits) then push on to 20 only to receive their umpteenth ammo mutation mod (15 Endo/1000 credits.) It doesn't make sense for missions which are designed to be repeated ad infinitum to have rewards which (realistically) only carry finite value.

I was looking at the official drop tables and spotted this monstrosity:

Eris/Akkad (Defense)
Rotation A
Vitality	Rare (7.59%)
Fast Deflection	Rare (7.59%)
Rush	Rare (7.37%)
Magazine Warp	Rare (7.59%)
Trick Mag	Rare (7.59%)
Pressure Point	Ultra Rare (1.01%)
Ammo Drum	Rare (7.37%)
Fast Hands	Rare (7.37%)
True Punishment	Ultra Rare (1.01%)
Lith C4 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Lith S8 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Lith L2 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Lith M4 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Lith W2 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Lith D1 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Rotation B
Speed Trigger	Rare (8.43%)
Fast Hands	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Point Strike	Rare (8.43%)
Vital Sense	Rare (8.43%)
Piercing Hit	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Metal Auger	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Pistol Gambit	Rare (8.43%)
Target Cracker	Rare (8.43%)
No Return	Rare (8.43%)
Ravage	Rare (8.43%)
Blunderbuss	Rare (8.43%)
Point Blank	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Serration	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Hornet Strike	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Fury	Legendary (0.67%)
Reflex Coil	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Pressure Point	Rare (8.43%)
True Punishment	Legendary (0.67%)
Quickening	Legendary (0.67%)
Meso R2 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso C4 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso L1 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso B4 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso D4 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso N9 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Meso E3 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.58%)
Rotation C
Hellfire	Rare (7.59%)
Heated Charge	Rare (7.59%)
Molten Impact	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Barrel Diffusion	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Streamline	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Intensify	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Thunderbolt	Legendary (0.40%)
80 Endo	Rare (7.59%)
80 Endo	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
True Punishment	Legendary (0.40%)
Quickening	Legendary (0.40%)
Enduring Strike	Legendary (0.40%)
Life Strike	Legendary (0.40%)
Meso R2 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Meso C4 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Meso L1 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Meso B4 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Neo T2 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Neo A3 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Neo Z5 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Neo M2 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Meso D4 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Meso N9 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Meso E3 Relic	Rare (7.59%)
Neo I1 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Neo R3 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)
Neo G2 Relic	Ultra Rare (1.84%)

I compared this to other defense missions of similar difficulty and concluded that some kind of error must have messed up the data for Akkad as there is no way this is an accurate listing of the drops on the live branch, however, let's pretend it is. The only rewards with any real value in this table are the relics, which all have relatively low or downright abysmal drop chances. All other rewards are mods with the exception of one: 80 Endo from rotation C; this is on Eris of all places.

There's 39 mod entries in this drop table, and out of those entries:

34 are unique
16 are common (5 Endo/200 credits), 13 are uncommon (10 Endo/500 credits) and 10 are rare mods (15 Endo/1000 credits.)
The rarity split and combined drop chance per rotation is:
- A: 0 Rare/00.00%, 2 Uncommon/15.18%, 7 Common/39.53%
- B: 4 Rare/19.11%, 8 Uncommon/32.28%, 7 Common/37.55%
- C: 6 Rare/06.72%, 3 Uncommon/17.02%, 2 Common/00.08%
Excluding transmutation, only 3 mods in the table—2 of which are common—cannot be obtained from sources other than mission rewards.
- These mods are Enduring Strike, Quickening and True Punishment.
Out of these 3 mods Quickening (listed in rotation B and C) is the only one likely to hold any trade value as it is a straight upgrade to normal Fury and has a <1% drop chance.

So the chances of getting next to nothing per rotation are: 54.71% for A, 88.94% for B and 23.82% for C (excluding the 80 Endo.) Out of 39 mod entries only 2 have any notable value and that is only if one is willing to go through the process of finding a buyer and organizing a trade for a mod that seems to average between 10 and 15 platinum on warframe.market. I don't do trading, can't be bothered, so mods have no trade value for a player like me.

That chance at 10–15 platinum isn't a reason to keep mods in the mission reward tables, just move them to enemy and container drops. Maybe make some (only) available from lockers to make exploration more appealing. You could even create secret areas, vaults and treasure troves in each tileset and fill them with special containers and lockers which have an increased chance to drop rarer mods and common sought after items like Ayatan stars.

DeeDeetheSpy · March 7, 2020

I am ALL about the thinning of the tables.

I would honestly like to see perhaps those extra vendors on Fortuna and Cetus be put to work and maybe have all the "base mods" that everyone needs for sale there. So you can try to get it through RNG, or buy them with credits. I know "we got to make money" is a thing, but seriously, these mods if someone speaks up that they are new and need them, Vet players will dump all of them onto a player. At least I do.

I also highly suggest/request being able to target relics be made simpler. Unique space station vendors perhaps to buy them from and then only have relics divided by the planet with the vaulted ones as they are with the bounties. So if I want Equinox Relics, they only drop from Uranus missions, like the frame does. We right now have 20 mission "planets" counting The void, Derelict, and Rail Jack. There is only 9 or 10 active ones... So...I mean... yeah?

Over all I just like to see the farming leaning to more resources and would love to see mods and gear lean more to vendors and crafting. Not completely but a lean.

Totterson · March 7, 2020

I can't say I can notice much of a difference after running several lich missions since those missions duplicate base node rewards due to reasons likely specified already in this thread, but it was the thought that counted. Thanks and looking forward to future improvements. Particularly to scaling rewards as already mentioned.

Necr0vex · March 9, 2020

The cleanup is really great. Farming my Fortuna just got allot better.

One suggestion:

Me and the guys felt that Kuva does not really fit into Fortuna and the whole Corpus vibe.

We suggests replacing the Kuva with toroids. Thematically it makes more sense and Kuva is farmable with The Kuva fortress, Liches and Sorties. Toroids are, to a noob like me, quite difficult to come by and a much needed resource.

🤘😈

xBelberith · March 11, 2020

The Index drop table could be greatly improved by removing the 0 credit hardlock and forced game crash reward, which is awarded when a single player host migrates the entire squad.

This sounds like a good candidate to get into Warframe Revised since it may have been mentioned once or twice before.

https://www.google.com/search?q=index+host+migration+site:forums.warframe.com

--BENIO-- · March 11, 2020

Why is it still possible to get 400 dirac or 1k dirac as an end of mission reward on rj missions? I thought this clean up was game wide, and leaving rj missions rewards out of the equations seems odd to me considering it is an important part of the game now

Edited March 11, 2020 by Benio_maximus

(XBOX)LukasWolfz · March 11, 2020

Good Morning. I think it could be changed the way we leave arbitration when we die because it happens and that when we are in squad and die automatically, the option to abandon the mission appears, several times I died while using the bullet jump and ended up confirming without meaning to that I lose all my progress on the mission. I think they could maintain this function of being able to abandon when they die but in another way because the way it is in my view is harming many players

Edited March 11, 2020 by (XB1)LukasWolfz

OrSpeeder · March 11, 2020

I liked the changes, but to me they feel like they are not enough. Even when I was a complete newbie, getting tiny amounts of Endo was kinda insulting, specially since missions felt hard, and the enemy drops were way better.

Or some hours ago, I was trying to farm Advance Debt-Bonds to level-up Fortuna, and kept getting 300 endo... that is kinda annoying considering how hard it is (Corpus buff did worked, and the bounties there felt dangerous while solo, even with my gear that I take to sorties, specially with the shockwave moas spam, just forget half a second to check my back and soon I was on the floor and enemies rushing me, and not being to instakill them easily with the Fulmin as it was possible before).

Drago55577 · March 11, 2020

A good start. The lack of mission rewards scaling is a real issue, and poor rewards are a bigger issue. Well, less of a problem now.

The scaling bonuses to void missions are decent, this is another good step.

kapn655321 · March 12, 2020

Lua Spy has two common mod drops.

Could use some forma, sculptures, LENSES.. just a thought.
_{(Please, and also, Thank you all for everything you're doing to address these.)}

Edited March 12, 2020 by kapn655321

Grey_Star_Rival_Defender · March 12, 2020

Could do this for EVERY mission? Please?

Kaizal · March 18, 2020

Seems like a half-measure in my eyes, credits and endo, unless considerably buffed are always gonna be a waste of time for anyone with access to vodyanoi and index. I haven't run many different missions. Most of the missions reward, garbage loot(mods, credits, endo) and relics, some reward only relics, guess which ones i do.

For anyone interested in efficiency, run the void captures for relics that are lith-meso-neo, and lua disruption for axi. No garbage loot at all.

(PSN)LeonidasxGGG · March 18, 2020

Honestly, imo THIS issue is pinnacle to Warframe because it is ultimatelly the #1 reason why we play the game (or any game, by that matter).
Right now, there seems to be a very unbalaced system between play/reward. There are: TOO many rewards by Node/Rotation. TOO many repetition of reward pools. TOO many RNG involved. TOO many Credits and Endo in High Tier game modes. TOO low chances for good rewards (some even have a lower than 1% of droping!).
We have missions with around 30 rewards(!?), where in some, one item occupies almost 50% chance and the hardest(s) one(s) has about 1% to drop (or lower!)... This is unsustainable. This isn't one of those cellphone Casino games... Is it?
Most savy players study the droptables and try to find the best time-invested/reward in order to maximize their chances of Winning (cuz we all love to Win, right?). But that is now "obscured" by the reasons I stated earlier.

ESO, ARBITRATIONS and other High Tier "not-noded-specific" modes should not drop Endo or Credits! There are plenty of other "regular" missions that drop enough for it, there is no need to packed them into High Tier just to them give them the highest drop rate and "lock" the player in lots of repetitions for the other good rewards.
Also, imo I would NOT have rewards pools bigger than 5, yes FIVE itens! The chances could vary from 50% to 10%, but even if you had to enlarge the reward pool, this should never reach 10 itens per rotation, and no drop chance should be below 5%!
Itens would still vary by Node and Rotations, and would still repeat on the Planet/Level ahead by being on a lower rotation, but they would NOT repeat on the same planet. Actually, rewards shouldn't repeat AT ALL! (e.g.: It is VERY difficult right now trying to find a X or Y item, because it drops all over the place with the same exact drop chance everywhere, OR it drops in a specific one but has a minuscule drop chance).
The only exception to this is: Opening Relics. Right now, it is probably the only mode that seems "balanced and fair": it has only 6 rewards in the pool (if the squad all uses the same) and drops chances can be improved up to 10% for Rares with Void Traces.
Other than that, playing the game right now can feel a little like "lootboxing" because you never know what you are going to get. Right now, there is absolutelly NOT A 1 ONE SINGLE SPECIFIC REWARD ATTACHED TO A NODE/MISSION. It is always "If you do this, you MIGHT get (one of) these".

Furthermore, I would like to extend this discussion to player performance. Because NOTHING is attached to it: speed to complet, damage done, assists, damage taken, times you died (or not), nothing... Either Solo or in Squad.
I would suggest rewards to improve with specific parameters of player performance, like: Speed of Captura, No detection on Spy, Low damage taken on Survival, Low damage on the capsule on Defense, that sort of thing... It would be a bit like "refining" Relics (which is a system, like I stated earlier, that does seem a bit more balanced. No idea why you removed Axi relics from Spy missions do, but I would like to have it back please) where it wouldn't eliminate drops, but it would "shift" the drop chance between Common, Uncommon, and Rare. Plus it would give players something to work for (and improve their skills) instead of just MR.

Just some ideas. Hope it helps.

Edited March 21, 2020 by (PS4)LeonidasxGGG
repetition of rewards should not happen in the same mission/node

King_Flounder · March 21, 2020

Right now, If a new player were to try warframe they would find the grind ridiculous. There are a million litttle islands scattered across everything. These islands exist due to far too many unique resources. At what point will you guys make things more reasonable and start appealing to new players?

King_Flounder · March 21, 2020

On 2020-03-09 at 12:25 AM, Necr0vex said:

The cleanup is really great. Farming my Fortuna just got allot better.

One suggestion:

Me and the guys felt that Kuva does not really fit into Fortuna and the whole Corpus vibe.

We suggests replacing the Kuva with toroids. Thematically it makes more sense and Kuva is farmable with The Kuva fortress, Liches and Sorties. Toroids are, to a noob like me, quite difficult to come by and a much needed resource.

🤘😈

Holy crap, this is an amazing suggestion. And i have my lil duck all stuffed full of toroids. But this comment is so important. At what point do you reduce the grind? like why is there not a 1 month / 6 month / 1 year revision on game modes to ensure they have relevant amounts of grind?

DeeDeetheSpy · March 21, 2020

On 2020-03-08 at 11:25 PM, Necr0vex said:

The cleanup is really great. Farming my Fortuna just got allot better.

One suggestion:

Me and the guys felt that Kuva does not really fit into Fortuna and the whole Corpus vibe.

We suggests replacing the Kuva with toroids. Thematically it makes more sense and Kuva is farmable with The Kuva fortress, Liches and Sorties. Toroids are, to a noob like me, quite difficult to come by and a much needed resource.

🤘😈

DE, please, this would make me ever so happy. Even though I am at cap rep, If I want to get more I just end up going to giving Exploiter a couple kicks to the coolant vents, which takes me about 30 minutes to solo enough times to get my toroids for the day to cap with LD if no one else is there doing it (I always open group, just no one else does it.) I would like to mix it up with missions. Especially given there are so many cool missions environment if I take one of the other bases. It could even set up that missions from the satellite bases around each of the core bases drop the associated toroids.

Warframe Revised: Mission Reward Cleanup Megathread

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