Should all warframes have built in energy regen?

[SpicyDinosaur]

Okay so it says this in support of what you were saying:

 

"In the case of Ability Duration under 100%, Ability Efficiency above 175% is also taken into account, even though not depicted in the Upgrade-Menu. The final drain still cannot go below 25% of its base value. (See the graph on the right for examples.)"

 

But I'm not sure how much it continues to affect things and the value. I can actually get that table up from Genesis on my server

[MysticDragonMage]

reading a lot of comments stating that "there are already multiple ways to gain energy, power creep, etc"

is a trade-off not implied here?

like, you think DE is just going to add something like universal energy regen and change nothing else to compensate?

provided that other methods of obtaining energy are looked over, i think universal energy regen would make managing energy a lot less bothersome and tedious to manage, presenting more gameplay focus to other aspects.

[MPonder]

3 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Okay so it says this in support of what you were saying:

 

"In the case of Ability Duration under 100%, Ability Efficiency above 175% is also taken into account, even though not depicted in the Upgrade-Menu. The final drain still cannot go below 25% of its base value. (See the graph on the right for examples.)"

 

But I'm not sure how much it continues to affect things and the value. I can actually get that table up from Genesis on my server

Dude, all you have to do in grab a Warframe that has a channeling ability, check it cost at 100% effficiency, put max stream and fleet, and see that it drain cost will go to 25% of what it was. But you gonna lose duration for other abilities if it is important.

Edited April 13, 2020 by MPonder

[SpicyDinosaur]

first should be no efficiency, second is with max fleeting expertise and streamline, third is with half fleeting expertise and full streamline (170%)

 

I'm wondering if it's not a good measure since duration is taken into account for the ticks. 

 

I'm not sure what I am looking at tbh. Is that right or am I missing something?

Edited April 13, 2020 by SpicyDinosaur

[DroopingPuppy]

13 hours ago, Raqiya said:

I would have to disagree with having energy regen. ability spam is bad enough as it is.

We already did it with Zenurik and some Arcanes. But newbies are not able to access for either of them, and they are struggle to use the ability actually. A default value of 0.5 to 0,6 regen never hurts anyone.

Again, the game is still hostile against newcommers.

[MPonder]

11 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

 

You are missing something, you forgot to remove the rest of the mods and just test with max streamline and fleeting. If you put  Transient fortude, it is gonna #*!%-up the drain with max+fleeting, because your duration will go lower. If you use duration mods, you can use not maxed fleeting depending on how much duration.

 

Test it with just stream line and fleeting on the build, and nothing else.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by MPonder

[DroopingPuppy]

Some people on here are does not understand the actual impact on the basic energy regen. It does not gives meaningful benefit for top tier users. Or even mid-tiers.

 

For example, top ranked Energizing Dash gives you 5 energy per a second, and top ranked Energy Pulse gives 50% more energy from the energy orbs(it gives 25 per one by default so you will get around 37 per one with this). But a top ranked Energy Siphon gives you only 0.6 energy per a second. See the difference? For me, after starting to use Energizing Dash, I throw away Energy Siphon to ALL warframe and never look back for about two years. Because it is no longer in use!

I don't have any meaningful arcanes at all, but I remember that some of them gives MORE energy. Then. hey, for someone with these, +0.5~0.6 energy regen is no more than a kidding. Is it better than nothing? Sure. But is it broken at any level? Not ever. I can already spamming 4, only with Energizing Dash and Energy Pulse. Give me an another +0.5 energy regen doesn't makes me more stronger. Why I am bothered to require it? I can already have a plenty of energy and can nuke whenever I please. For someone with reliable energy source, such a small thing is insignificant.

 

But, I remember how painful it is on the low level. Actually I can start the game with great support of my friend, so I have a plenty of mods and some warframes therefore my newbie life was not that painful. But, I still remember the consequece when I leave Energy Siphon on home. It was really painful, for it means your ability is virtually blocked through the mission! The more painful thing is I was newbie at that time and I need everything I got to deal with the enemy.

 

Well, to sum up, a small amount of regen will helps newcommers, but it never accelerates end tier massacre. So, why not? You should remember that you were a newbie once upon a time. Just think about your shining gears solves nothing. You are not the only person in the game and not all of us are shares your power level. Especially on here, Warframe, which have too hostile environment against newcommers. Why not to add something benefit for them?

Edited April 13, 2020 by DroopingPuppy

[SpicyDinosaur]

Newbies at least have access to small aquad restores iirc. I used them during that time,

 

Not everything is going to be easy when you start a new game. Nor do you want to speed through everything with minimal effort, that inhibits learning.

[DroopingPuppy]

Sure, we can't gives everything to the newcommers and they should be uneasy because they are not used to the game. But even consider this Warframe is already too hostile against newcommers. I have seen this drawback makes the people more friendly to the newbies, ironically, but only rely on the individual charity is not the real solution of the problem on the game economy and system.

[Fire2box]

22 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

running the zenurik tree is almost a requirement for alot of heavy power use frames, so what if everyframe had basic energy regen? Maybe each frame has a trigger tongain a spike in the regen rate that coincide with their gameplay.

Or we could get some more efficiency mods

just build 100x large energy pads you can even do it from a phone. I can press 8 on my keyboard and be topped out in energy in less then a second. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Fire2box

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, Sovyul said:

Transform Warframe into a tactical shooter so muh ability spam won't be a problem anymore, also increase rewards by 4x since it takes more time to finish missions now.

Warframe is grind optimized now, it's not a tactical shooter/tech demo anymore. Energy accessibility even in its current form is not OP.

>anything i disagree with is an excuse, also i must cherry pick 1 comment out of 11, and assume things so i don't fall off my high horse

Good lord have I triggered you. Stay mad though.

So nothing changed: you cant even cogently justify why we should be able to spam abilities 24/7. 

Someone was pretentious to you so you got distracted, no problem. Let me know if you think of a logical reason why we should have a constant Zen Dash on.

[Host_Migration]

 

 

[DroopingPuppy]

1 hour ago, Host_Migration said:

 

 

Not really. If it would be your answer, you are likely already have at least Energy Siphon.

[Raqiya]

8 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

We already did it with Zenurik and some Arcanes. But newbies are not able to access for either of them, and they are struggle to use the ability actually. A default value of 0.5 to 0,6 regen never hurts anyone.

Again, the game is still hostile against newcommers.

I don't think we should have energy regen (full stop). Anyway it gives newbies something to work towards.

[Rakosta_Kai]

DE has always been a big fan of creating weighted choices and ensuring opportunity costs enter into build considerations.

If you want a measure of energy regen (from any available source)  then you have to be prepared to lose other options to have it.

There are a number of energy replacement tactics available from various sources before Zenurik is ever even considered.

 

All that said, I don't take issue with the idea per se... It's one, of a number of things, that should be introduced as MR tier rewards imo.

The route DE has taken MR, so far, is as a barrier for access to select content and items as opposed to an award path.

Funnily enough, DE would likely achieve some portion of their KPIs more easily (at least short term) if they tied a set of awards to each Mastery Rank. 

...All while creating weighted choices and ensuring opportunity costs enter the build discussion. 

[(XBOX)Calliber]

I'd be more on board for a Energy Reg/return option on all Focus schools triggered via different requirements, with Zenurik being the most efficient.

Edited April 13, 2020 by (XB1)Calliber

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I'm not sure what I am looking at tbh. Is that right or am I missing something?

You forgot to remove duration mods. 

Maxed Fleeting+Streamline = 190% efficiency and 40% duration, those two alone will cap your channeling efficiency since the breakpoint for 190% efficiency to make up for negative duration sits at 40% duration. There is one single frame where this doesnt apply 100%, where the channeling cost is slghtly higher than 25%. Cant remember if it is on Titania, Ivara or Valkyr because it is neglectable but still visible.

[Darklord_Tou]

I think all warframe should have base line energy regen and then remove all other source of energy income or energy leech except energy orbs. Then they can balance the game with a baseline like that. 

[_Tormex_]

On 2020-04-12 at 5:05 AM, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

No offense, but that'd be stupidly OP.

The only time after so many years I have energy issues (I don't use zenurik, never used energize, barely use pads) is when an ancient disrupter sucks out 800+ energy (you read that number right) with one God damn single hook. 

outside of that, meh, I rarely have energy issues, even with frames where I cast stuff like every 5-10 seconds..

Also, I kinda feel DE's message about passive energy Regen is clear considering there never was a buff to energy siphon, and the old zenurik was smashed instead of just nerfed..

Edit: I recommend the new exilus mod btw, what's it called, preparation? My nova starts with full energy with that.. (700+) 

Do you play Grendel often? I feel like I am always energy starved as Grendel. Which makes sense I guess, but its still annoying.

[LascarCapable]

Warframe's energy system is already incredibly easy to break thanks to Zenurik, efficiency mods, Rage and many frames who have an incredibly easy and powerful energy sustain. Adding innate energy regen isn't needed at all.

However, reworking energy and power efficiency so anything is based on innate energy regen instead of the current broken stuff we have could be a good idea. Efficiency mods could be replaced with a "increased energy regen" effect. Same for Zenurik and Rage. It would also mean reworking a lot of stuff though, including every single power based on giving energy.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2020-04-12 at 2:05 AM, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

No offense, but that'd be stupidly OP.

The only time after so many years I have energy issues (I don't use zenurik, never used energize, barely use pads) is when an ancient disrupter sucks out 800+ energy (you read that number right) with one God damn single hook. 

outside of that, meh, I rarely have energy issues, even with frames where I cast stuff like every 5-10 seconds..

Also, I kinda feel DE's message about passive energy Regen is clear considering there never was a buff to energy siphon, and the old zenurik was smashed instead of just nerfed..

Edit: I recommend the new exilus mod btw, what's it called, preparation? My nova starts with full energy with that.. (700+) 

I think the only way passive Energy regen could work is if it was taken out of Zenurik and given to every Warframe, but at a much slower rate, like a single point of energy every two or three seconds. Got to remember Energy Siphon still exists. Most people would still be using Zenurik anyways due to the other benefits it provides, like the extra Energy Orb energy over a few seconds.

If you want people to not use Zenurik, you'd pretty much have to remove it as an actual option and just put its effects in the base game, and DE is obviously not into that idea. You can buff the other trees as much as you want, but since people feel they only need Energy, that's all they're going to go for.

Maybe we should start with identifying the issues Energy as a whole has, and go from there.

[cha0sWyrM]

i dont think all frames need innate energy regen.

 

but i DO think we should at least start a mission with a full energy pool. whos idea was it to NOT do that? its soooooo stupid. in what twisted line of logic does it make sense to do that??

we deploy with a full load out of weapons and ammo....but no...we cant figure out how to fly our spaceship to the mission and top off our energy at the same time? why do i need to waste the first 20 seconds of every mission spamming energizing dash?

absurd.

[Raqiya]

1 hour ago, cha0sWyrM said:

i dont think all frames need innate energy regen.

 

but i DO think we should at least start a mission with a full energy pool. whos idea was it to NOT do that? its soooooo stupid. in what twisted line of logic does it make sense to do that??

we deploy with a full load out of weapons and ammo....but no...we cant figure out how to fly our spaceship to the mission and top off our energy at the same time? why do i need to waste the first 20 seconds of every mission spamming energizing dash?

absurd.

Don't worry! For each Mod slot you get additional energ, its not like we mod up to capacity or anything.

Didin't [DE] Release a mod which did exactly that not too long ago.