Scarlet spear ground critically under-rewards

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

You earn more credits and more side rewards with far less commitment in space missions.

In ground squad without a good team a single condrix (of which needs to be chased off for a singe murex to get chased off in space) can take several minutes to even get to where it can be scanned. Every member needs to be filling a role effectively for ground runs to be fast up to the 17 cap

In space a good host can let the rest of his team afk save when they need to put down oplinks.

 

Ground takes over twice what space needs to get that 5k base score, and doesnt grant intrinsics. Additionally the endlessly spawning sentients in space are a good soure of sellable shedu and war parts as well as other previously rare sentient drops.

 

Simply put, if you want to get ad many SS credits per wave, get a good host with a fast and tough rj, then 3 other members who can bring whatever they want. Fully complete one 5/5 murex raid then do 2/3 in another and leave to repeat in another floatilla.

In theroy, you should be able to get a maximum 10k bonus from up to 6 relays as it takes about 30min to get 5k in space missions. This is with one player effectively doing everything

With ground missions taking over 40-50 minutes at best and at worst well over a hour, while also not giving any railjack rewards i am seeing a clear trend.

 

People do space, almost exclusively even if a relay needs more ground teams.

Not enough ground? Find a better floatilla. This had become a mantra.

Ground needs to have 5k score by wave 10 or so. At the very least the amounts of credits per minute needs to be equal or better when doing ground.

And i admit, i still would do ground if it got me ss credits faster. Simply because i dont like it as much as space.

 

Sorry for rant. Im just tired of waiting for kill codes because like myself everyone just wanting creds does space.

 

Edit: forgot to mention that i think the only reaso people do ground is due to how badly bugged space is.

Edited April 15, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[Acersecomic]

You get over 4k on ground and under 4k in space for a full run.

[Savire510]

23 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

You get over 4k on ground and under 4k in space for a full run.

considering the work you need in ground compared to space the difference is small, if space is 4k then ground should be 6k atleast, 1 run guaranteeing rank 3

[kyori]

DE: it's less than 2 weeks and it's over. Just get it over with, ok?

[Nichivo]

You want more people on the ground? Give them Intrinsic! That alone would boost ground players by leaps and bounds.

[taiiat]

it's inarguably dumb that Ground vs Space don't award basically the same Credits/time, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

You get over 4k on ground and under 4k in space for a full run.

the Ground mission takes longer than it awards in extra points. slightly higher points per Mission but the Missions take like 40-50% longer.
even if you're oneshotting every Condrix phase, it's still significantly slower than Space.

Edited April 15, 2020 by taiiat

[Voltage]

12 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

You get over 4k on ground and under 4k in space for a full run.

The difference in points is negligible. The difference in time is atleast 8 minutes. Space is more efficient but defends on randoms in the Flotilla...

Edited April 16, 2020 by Voltage

[Acersecomic]

14 hours ago, Savire510 said:

considering the work you need in ground compared to space the difference is small, if space is 4k then ground should be 6k atleast, 1 run guaranteeing rank 3

Ground work is trivial due to Grineer not being resistant to Limbo, Sentients on the ground also do not spawn infinitely. Also Group doesn't need a Railjack built not equipped (even though Railjack just needs to be fast for space portion). I do agree that ground should be a bit more, ground teams have time to do 2 full runs for cca 8300 credits, while the space has time for 15 Murex, if you're lucky with the squad 20.

Still, work compared is wrong, ground just takes longer but works far far less. The squads I ran with randomly so far would Kill minions, nuke Condrix, Drop Limbo, wait at next Condrix point. Minimal shooting or effort with all the OpLink intact.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

41 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Ground work is trivial due to Grineer not being resistant to Limbo, Sentients on the ground also do not spawn infinitely. Also Group doesn't need a Railjack built not equipped (even though Railjack just needs to be fast for space portion). I do agree that ground should be a bit more, ground teams have time to do 2 full runs for cca 8300 credits, while the space has time for 15 Murex, if you're lucky with the squad 20.

Still, work compared is wrong, ground just takes longer but works far far less. The squads I ran with randomly so far would Kill minions, nuke Condrix, Drop Limbo, wait at next Condrix point. Minimal shooting or effort with all the OpLink intact.

Ya hi, ground REQUIRES dps to kill condrix and sentients.

 Space only requires one decent cc frame atm, killing sentients is not needed at all.

Ground needs pretty strong weapon choice for dealing with condrix at its highest levels.

Space again requires no specialized equipment setups for dealing with target health, only that one halfway decent cc frame.

 

It takes far longer for a poorly equipped team to get 17 condrix than it does 5 murex. Space requires almost no combat relative to ground save occasionally clearing boarding partys.

 

Space is easier/faster/far more rewarding vs ground.

Ground needs a reward buff or the space runs need to requre less kill codes so a 1 to 1 space ground ratio works instead of a 3 to 1.

Edited April 16, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[Savire510]

2 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Ground work is trivial due to Grineer not being resistant to Limbo, Sentients on the ground also do not spawn infinitely. Also Group doesn't need a Railjack built not equipped (even though Railjack just needs to be fast for space portion). I do agree that ground should be a bit more, ground teams have time to do 2 full runs for cca 8300 credits, while the space has time for 15 Murex, if you're lucky with the squad 20.

Still, work compared is wrong, ground just takes longer but works far far less. The squads I ran with randomly so far would Kill minions, nuke Condrix, Drop Limbo, wait at next Condrix point. Minimal shooting or effort with all the OpLink intact.

Space does less work because you only need to put an oplink and lock down the entire map with baruuk/Hildryn. In railjack its just going from A to B, evading droppods is easy and parking inside murex grants railjack protection. You only kill sleeping sentients if you want shedu parts or intrinsics. Other than that its just waiting.

Also doing more than needed for rank 3 in a flottilla is just a waste of time. I dont understand people that go for scores like 10-15k, its not really efficient in terms of credit gains.

Do 5k, hop to other flottila and get multiple 10k bonuses.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Savire510

[Wububurus]

There's definitely an imbalance again. There are far more space squads than ground ones, which leads to really long waits on kill codes.

 

In space you can completely ignore the railjack aspect of the mission, making it nothing more than a time sink (similar to the condrix health bar) to hold you back until you get to the fun part of the mission -- sitting and waiting.

If you do have sufficient kill code income then it's a quick 5 stage run with minimal effort to get 3,960 tokens. The bonus is x2 for 7,920, but the bonus cap per flotilla is 10,000; so there is no incentive to do more than one space run. You drop in, complete one space run, move to the next flotilla.

 

On the ground you have a time sink with increasing difficulty because of health, health gates, and armor. Then you have 2.5x as many stages to go through for slightly more payout of scarlet tokens. You still complete one full run, if you can, and the move to the next flotilla.

 

I'd recommend:

1. Add some sort of healthy boss to the sentient ship

2. Somehow adjust the kill code progress to the imbalance in squads

[Acersecomic]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Ya hi, ground REQUIRES dps to kill condrix and sentients.

 Space only requires one decent cc frame atm, killing sentients is not needed at all.

Ground needs pretty strong weapon choice for dealing with condrix at its highest levels.

Space again requires no specialized equipment setups for dealing with target health, only that one halfway decent cc frame.

Clearly you haven't played Space in a while because they grow resistances to Limbo. And then your Stasis ain't worth much.

I've seen how Condrix falls at the highest levels. Done both runs today and I still think space is more demanding due to needing constant attention on Sentients, where you know, defending the OpLinks actually requires you to defend them, unlike on Ground where you pop Stasis and it's all good.

This is past Credits earned, this is now just convincing you of the Space vs Ground facts.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Lets actually cut to the meat of it.

You can't do the space mission without the ground mission which is resulting in many failures because getting someone to do ground missions is like pulling teeth because of how significantly unrewarding they are in comparison. 

If the ground mission isn't at least 1 to 1 as rewarding as the space mission, then the event is pointless because people aren't going to cooperate. Most people will do what ever gets them personally the most rewards and then *@##$ about how nobody is doing the ground mission because the few people doing ground missions are often being forced to play solo. 

This whole event didn't have enough (if any) thought put into it. 

[(NSW)RamboKytwan]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

Clearly you haven't played Space in a while because they grow resistances to Limbo. And then your Stasis ain't worth much.

Limbo isn't the only cc frame

[Acersecomic]

15 minutes ago, (NSW)RamboKytwan said:

Limbo isn't the only cc frame

Naturally. But none deny killing Sentients. Nekros comes close with his Fear.

[Educated_Beast]

I spent a lot of time developing a strong railjack and enjoying space and playing it exclusively.  Not just because it is more rewarding, but because it is new.  

Ground is more of the same, I actually enjoy railjack and have a top tier ship.  I want to use it, I don't want another ground event.  

I also bought XP boosters to farm intrisnics, I don't want to waste those on ground when I am not working on a frame.  

Nerfing space rewards is certainly not the way to go, I'm still farming relics and been playing mostly every day.  

I think ground needs more sentients so Limbos cannot trivilize then offer same credits at murex 10 and nake it possible to hit 5000 at 15 (or so).  

The highest I've went in a random squad was 8.  Most ended at 3 ...

[DrivaMain]

Just make ground rewards 5000 creds at Condrix 17 and maybe even allow intrinsics to be farmed too. The reason why space is crowded is because it gives a lot of Intrinsics because Sentients have a lot of affinity.

[eboomer]

Stop your complaining.  Scarlet Spear is so radically over-rewarding that it has completely destroyed an entire community of long term players (Eidolon hunters).  It should take four times as long to get arcanes as it currently does.  Personally, Warframe is pretty much dead to me until they either make Eidolons worth doing, or add content in that is somewhat as fun and "challenging" as Eidolons (trying to get 6x3's on PC is actually a legitimate challenge, one of the few to be found in the game currently).  I login just to increment the login counter and make another forma, and immediately log off.  But I want an actual reason to play.  Because while the mission and reward structure is useless trash right now (to me), there are core mechanics that are totally unparalleled in video games.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

5 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Naturally. But none deny killing Sentients. Nekros comes close with his Fear.

Try baruuks lull.

 

You can literally solo just by spamming 2

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[Educated_Beast]

1 hour ago, eboomer said:

Stop your complaining.  Scarlet Spear is so radically over-rewarding that it has completely destroyed an entire community of long term players (Eidolon hunters).  It should take four times as long to get arcanes as it currently does.  Personally, Warframe is pretty much dead to me until they either make Eidolons worth doing, or add content in that is somewhat as fun and "challenging" as Eidolons (trying to get 6x3's on PC is actually a legitimate challenge, one of the few to be found in the game currently).  I login just to increment the login counter and make another forma, and immediately log off.  But I want an actual reason to play.  Because while the mission and reward structure is useless trash right now (to me), there are core mechanics that are totally unparalleled in video games.

Only a handful of the arcanes are worth using and of those, I already had them all maxed until DE arbitrarily increased the amount needed to max out by 11.  

So no, it's not really over rewarding.  The players that can bang through it already had rank 3 Arcanes before they changed the max to rank 5.  All I am being rewarded is what I already had.  

I get the market crashed on energize, grace, guardian, etc., but I wasn't going to buy them anyway.  You can still make plat and if you can do 6 in a night, sounds like you can make a decent amount.  Arcanes were overpriced for what they do.  

Now they are reasonable price able to pick up a rank 5 energize for 600p or so (2000 max prior to changes was a rip off).  

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

At the very, very least they should allow trinity to heal the op links to give solo players at least a non limbo oriented chance to get to 17....

[PollexMessier]

completely agree, doing ground is basically pointless. the only people doing ground are people who hate railjack so much their willing to do the objectively worse mission, only care about getting points as efficiently as possible so will go into ground if there's too many space teams, don't know any better, or have all of their intrinsics already and are generous enough to do exclusively ground missions simply because of the imbalance. some might even consider being in a space mission where the kill codes are lagging behind even more rewarding because they get more intrinsics for it. there's likely a lot of players that have gotten every possible thing from the event trade and are doing space missions exclusively for intrinsics, ether because they already had arcanes fully stocked up or because the intrinsic grind far exceeds the grind to get everything from the event. Space is also much easier to join, because it actually has a join function at all. To do ground you HAVE to use recruitment or have a group of friends able to do it with you which are things a lot of players don't want to do/ don't have. There are a ton of factors pushing players to choose space over ground, ground needs to hit the 5k point mark at 10 murex, and drop chance for parts needs to be excessively higher, maybe even on top of an extra 5k bonus points and some free intrinsics, maybe 5 per murex, (we can't have intrinsics be better than the space mission that would make no sense since it's suppose to be a railjack thing) to make it even remotely competitive with the space mission.

[(PSN)crashteddy03]

14 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

the only people doing ground are people who hate railjack so much their willing to do the objectively worse mission, only care about getting points as efficiently as possible so will go into ground if there's too many space teams, don't know any better, or have all of their intrinsics already and are generous enough to do exclusively ground missions simply because of the imbalance.

That's sadly true. I fall into the latter category but right now I'm tiring of it. Especially as the abuse of ground teams "need codes now stupid ground teams" (or similar) is getting more rampant.

Space missions are way faster than ground and frankly require less effort. A good two man team can do a 5 murex run easily in little over 30 minutes. Do another space mission to round 3 and there's your 5k. I think the furthest I've gone in a two man team on ground was round 12 and for that the reward is just over 2k.

The way to slow down the space teams is simple. Require them to kill X number of sentients every 3 codes sent. The reward remains the same but the time to achieve it increases. Another possibility would be to have the Grineer gatecrash the Murex to further increase the difficulty. This is probably still easier to get around with cc frames like Limbo though.
I'd love to see the ground squads earn Intrinsics but that doesn't really make sense. Either the rate of difficulty increase for ground needs to decrease, or the rewards need to increase.

This event was created to try to encourage cooperation. Instead we're still seeing an "every man for himself" sort of attitude and wondering why things aren't working. We need to work together. Space squads rely on ground squads for codes. Ground squads are relying on space squads to drive away the murex so that we all get the bonus. Abusing the ground squads because you aren't getting codes doesn't make me want to help you. It makes me want to leave the flotilla and find another team. What do you think I'm doing in the ground mission? Going around and scanning flowers? As someone on the chat put it the other day (sanitized for the forum) - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Please Tenno - let's just help each other out without the abuse.

[Colyeses]

22 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

the only people doing ground are people who hate railjack so much their willing to do the objectively worse mission

Actually, there's one other factor: Ground missions are infinitely easier. You still have to contend with some sentients, but they tend to be lighter and fewer. The majority of the enemies you'll face will be plain old, fully controllable and easily oneshottable Grineer.

I don't min-max, so I fall off too fast in space missions, leaving me twiddling my thumbs fairly quickly. I tend to prefer ground missions for that reason.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

On 2020-04-17 at 5:38 PM, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

That's sadly true. I fall into the latter category but right now I'm tiring of it. Especially as the abuse of ground teams "need codes now stupid ground teams" (or similar) is getting more rampant.

Space missions are way faster than ground and frankly require less effort. A good two man team can do a 5 murex run easily in little over 30 minutes. Do another space mission to round 3 and there's your 5k. I think the furthest I've gone in a two man team on ground was round 12 and for that the reward is just over 2k.

The way to slow down the space teams is simple. Require them to kill X number of sentients every 3 codes sent. The reward remains the same but the time to achieve it increases. Another possibility would be to have the Grineer gatecrash the Murex to further increase the difficulty. This is probably still easier to get around with cc frames like Limbo though.
I'd love to see the ground squads earn Intrinsics but that doesn't really make sense. Either the rate of difficulty increase for ground needs to decrease, or the rewards need to increase.

This event was created to try to encourage cooperation. Instead we're still seeing an "every man for himself" sort of attitude and wondering why things aren't working. We need to work together. Space squads rely on ground squads for codes. Ground squads are relying on space squads to drive away the murex so that we all get the bonus. Abusing the ground squads because you aren't getting codes doesn't make me want to help you. It makes me want to leave the flotilla and find another team. What do you think I'm doing in the ground mission? Going around and scanning flowers? As someone on the chat put it the other day (sanitized for the forum) - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Please Tenno - let's just help each other out without the abuse.

Exactly this. I am sick of the code complaining. Tho i exclusively do space it is purely to get the number 69 permanently stuck on that emblem. My r3 ground one shows 1 and i like it there.

Whenever i see complaining about not enough ground i tell people to blow it at DE for making ground what it is.

 

De wont fix it tho, they dont see the problem.