Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[BlackCat500]

Kuva Nukor's MR13 and Aklex Prime is MR15, Aklex Prime is really exclusive to a time gate if you don't have relics lying around and requires dropluck to get, if you do exterminate over and over until the lich has the right weapon it is only a matter of time for a guaranteed drop that is,no matter what the multiplier, vastly superior to the Aklex Prime.

 

I don't think MR ever feasibly counted for performance for anything, this goes doubly for the bramma. I'm saying this as a mirage main who's been using a lot of non standard weapons with my 3 up until lately, just because it was fun. The raw power of the bramma has tempted even me into using it just because I get to clear solo or annoying sortie missions faster with it.

I would hate to see it nerfed to the ground, but I don't think even for a second that being MR15 (whether this is or isn't required to claim it from the foundry being a completely irrelevant story here, actually) makes it fair in any shape or form. It needs to be nerfed in some way, but not so its AoE becomes worthless in comparison to other AoE weapons, so increasing falloff is not a good thing. AoE range perhaps, sure, but that is not going to fix the absurd damage it does.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

3 hours ago, BlackCat500 said:

Kuva Nukor's MR13 and Aklex Prime is MR15, Aklex Prime is really exclusive to a time gate if you don't have relics lying around and requires dropluck to get, if you do exterminate over and over until the lich has the right weapon it is only a matter of time for a guaranteed drop that is,no matter what the multiplier, vastly superior to the Aklex Prime.

 

I don't think MR ever feasibly counted for performance for anything,

Yes/No. Generally speaking, a higher mr weapon does better then lower mr weapons. 

It's not always the case, but the MR 15 Bramma does more then the MR 7 Lenz. 

Acceltra beats the Soma. Nikana Prime beats the mk-1 Skana. There are loads of examples. 

There are exceptions to that rule, but MR generally gates the stronger equipment in the game from players. Kinda like how the Aklex Prime have a higher MR gate then the Aklex. This trend continues for access to certain weapons, or access to the strongest rivens in the game and so on.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

There are exceptions to that rule, but MR generally gates the stronger equipment in the game from players. Kinda like how the Aklex Prime have a higher MR gate then the Aklex. This trend continues for access to certain weapons, or access to the strongest rivens in the game and so on.

Speaking of exceptions and the MR15 Aklex Prime, try comparing it to the MR8 Lex Prime, then cry.

Rivens have no meaningful relationship with MR, only the amount of Endo you get when dissolving the Riven.

As for the Bramma, make it the same power level as the Zarr, then we can all move on.

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

i can already smell bramma's nerf incoming from DE, been telling people to sell off their riven quick as its riven prices has been dropping too

[Tiltskillet]

14 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Then try to claim a kuva weapon at mastery rank 4. 

Good luck. You won't even have kuva lich unlocked and able to fight at that level. Most players at that level won't even be able to vanquish a lich on their own. 

But go on. Go find a mastery rank 4 player with a kuva weapon. I'll wait. 

 

On 2020-05-06 at 6:09 PM, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Wrong. It is locked behind MR 15. 

So, which is it?

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Speaking of exceptions and the MR15 Aklex Prime, try comparing it to the MR8 Lex Prime, then cry.

Which is why i think Aklex Prime should’ve gotten a lower MR, 15 is too high for that Weapon.

[Methica]

Kuva Bramma is the worst S#&$ since the old ember. its sooooo much OP!

Each game i come in, if one has Bramma, the others woho have not dmg counts are ridiculous low. (my last game: I no bramma trying to level frame by using abilities. I hat 2%, all other 3 Bramma with high dmga. Another game defence, just one guy bramma bombing all in the 1st 5 rounds. he left we stayed till round 20 and could not keep up to the dmge count he solo made in the first 5 rounds. Sensless insane toooo much! I'm MR27 Playing since 2k+ hours. spent tons of energy to farm and build stuff. Now im outtaken in every single game i dont use bramma by noob guys who played for little hundrets of hours. And the worst thing is, they dont use any abilitites anymore.. just jumping round bombing the whole game with the bramma. Sensless boring S#&$! And to keep up with it everybody who can now uses bramma.

That completely destroys the game balance. No use for other weapons or abilities anymore? Sensles boring S#&$! .. rofl.. like the old ember standing in the middle of the room doing nothing and all enemies die. Saryn + Bramma now. Dont have to have anything else. press 4 and shoot arrows. you can solo all S#&$ on your own!

No balance at all anymore!

[(NSW)Matt-S]

Regarding the "Bramma is MR locked", here is an image of my friend who started one month ago who just got a Bramma at MR11:

Strictly speaking, because of how ridiculously powerful this weapon is, he has no reason to actually hunt for anything else in the search for power (barring specific content such as Eidolons, of course). Bramma can be used in practically 99% of situations and come out on top in comparison to everything else.

One weapon should not be like this. There is nothing wrong with having something best in class at a particular job, but it shouldn't be as good as the Bramma is currently. An arsenal exists so that you have lots of options to take for different purposes, not so it can be entirely ignored.

Bramma can stay as an AoE weapon, sure, but it shouldn't be doing anywhere near as much damage as it does now. It should probably also have its critical chance absolutely gutted so it can't proc slash easily (although if base damage is nerfed, may not be necessary), making it an effective mob clearer, but heavier units will require you to actually bring some strength. Corinth Prime is a good example of a balanced AoE weapon, as the air shot has no critical but decent base damage, making it very good for clearing out your weaker units, but you need to focus on the heavier units.

[Bristoling]

I've seen MR9s with Bramma before.

Anyway, this is a bow with higher crit stats than most snipers, higher base damage than shotguns, bigger AoE than any other primary weapon, innate element of your choice, decent status and droplets to deal with nullifiers. Requires no build time, no resources, no mastery rank, deals no self damage, has no delay like Lenz or any other downside.

What could possibly go wrong?

Personally I'm surprised that anyone thought that the stats of this weapon are balanced enough to be released.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

Remember that one Devstream with Pablo where he said that the Haymaker Splat Catchmoon was the most popular secondary weapon, with a total playerbase usage of over 70%? Every other secondary weapon in the game COMBINED was not being used half as much as the Meta kitgun. The only reason that type of Kitgun isn't as popular anymore was because it was nerfed into a state of normalcy without completely killing the weapon.

That's what I believe DE is planning. Seeing that they tried to add permanent nerfs to warframes during temporary events, I don't believe that they are watching The Kuva Bramma rip enemies apart like wet, one ply toilet paper that is found in schools (and literally nowhere else for some reason) and say "Looks balanced enough to me."

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Corinth Prime is a good example of a balanced AoE weapon, as the air shot has no critical but decent base damage, making it very good for clearing out your weaker units, but you need to focus on the heavier units.

Yeah no where near

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

3 hours ago, Bristoling said:

I've seen MR9s with Bramma before.

Anyway, this is a bow with higher crit stats than most snipers, higher base damage than shotguns, bigger AoE than any other primary weapon, innate element of your choice, decent status and droplets to deal with nullifiers. Requires no build time, no resources, no mastery rank, deals no self damage, has no delay like Lenz or any other downside.

What could possibly go wrong?

Personally I'm surprised that anyone thought that the stats of this weapon are balanced enough to be released.

This post my man, this is why calling a nerf incoming for Bramma already, If DE still dont realize bramma is too op for our current meta i should probably get drunk or smtg

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

On 2020-05-08 at 7:20 AM, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Speaking of exceptions and the MR15 Aklex Prime, try comparing it to the MR8 Lex Prime, then cry.

I mean its just akimbo version. It's not going to be drastically different in stats. The Mr is the exception, but there was a time in the history of warframe where the Soma and the Boltor Prime where the best weapons in the game. 

That's no longer the case. There are stronger weapons, and most of them are of the higher mr persuasion. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

9 hours ago, WOWESOMUCHDOGE said:

This post my man, this is why calling a nerf incoming for Bramma already,

 

12 hours ago, Bristoling said:

Anyway, this is a bow with higher crit stats than most snipers, higher base damage than shotguns, bigger AoE than any other primary weapon, innate element of your choice, decent status and droplets to deal with nullifiers. Requires no build time, no resources, no mastery rank, deals no self damage, has no delay like Lenz or any other downside.

Wrong for both of you. The Bramma  does require Mastery Rank. If you want proof, make a new warframe account, and at rank 0 attempt to get a bramma. It can't be done. You do actually have to beat the Warframe story, which requires Mastery rank, then defeat a lich.

The bramma is perfectly fine as is. People like you would complain about every other weapon till nothing is usable.... seriously, people like you only kill fun and ruin the enjoyment of warframe without ever adding to it. 

Sorry, but the Bramma is a weapon that is an acceptable reward. The Weapon is flawed on its own. Without ammo mutation, or a sentinel/pet to get ammo, you get a max of 15 shorts. No built in ammo mutation. It's ammo is the rarest ammo drop with the fewest amount of shots per ammo pick up.

Most bows like the dread have 72 shots. The Lenz is the only bow with less ammo, and it comes with a built in ammo conversion. The only weapons I can find with less max ammo then the Bramma have built in ammo regeneration like the shedu. The Shedu auto fills its ammo when you deplete it and refills over time. 

The bramma should be good as Its a reward for killing kuva liches. For a weapon that requires draw time, and has one of the smallest ammo pools, for it to work as a viable weapon it has to do good damage. From all of warframes launcher weapons, the Bramma has 1/4th the usual ammo. 

Launchers typically have 60 shots. The Zarr has 84 rounds. 

So cry me a river that Warframe finally came out and released a new bow that everyone loves. But I'm really running out of patience for people like you that ruin a weapon just cause its "too popular" for you. 

Like any game ever released with guns, the strongest ones are typically the most popular. If you ever played destiny, gjallerhorn was very much in the same boat. 

Then Destiny nerfed it into the ground. Kudos for both of you wanting to ruin a reward and make the grind and time people put into making a weapon good, worthless. 

If I ever quit warframe, it will be from people like you nerfing something into the ground to the point that I can never enjoy a weapon. Getting attached to a weapon is already dangerous enough.

15 hours ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Strictly speaking, because of how ridiculously powerful this weapon is, he has no reason to actually hunt for anything else in the search for power (barring specific content such as Eidolons, of course). Bramma can be used in practically 99% of situations and come out on top in comparison to everything else.

Strictly speaking, a weapon being the best and being used in practically in 99% of content is nearly always the case in every game where new weapons that are released that are stronger then previous weapons. When the strongest weapon is found, people flock to it, then make due in the meantime till they have it unlocked.

Old weapons are used during progression, otherwise you switch weapons for special reasons. (Eidolons, and some bosses are similarly resistant to explosion damage.) 

Games like saaaaay, Monster Hunter, Destiny, and such have the "Meta weapons" that come out, and everyone swarms to them. Everyone tries to obtain these weapons, then use these weapons to make the farm faster so they can get what they want quicker. 

Oh, like warframe. 

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Sorry, but the Bramma is a weapon that is an acceptable reward. The Weapon is flawed on its own. Without ammo mutation, or a sentinel/pet to get ammo, you get a max of 15 shorts. No built in ammo mutation. It's ammo is the rarest ammo drop with the fewest amount of shots per ammo pick up.

Most bows like the dread have 72 shots. The Lenz is the only bow with less ammo, and it comes with a built in ammo conversion.

^^ Ammo Mutation Mod is pretty much needed for Bramma since it only picks up Sniper Ammo (since it counts as Bow Ammo 🤷‍♂️). It’s hardly noticeable when doing your everyday star chart Missions but for something like Anomaly Railjack, lack of Ammo Mutation means you better bring your Secondary with you because you would need it soon. 

[(NSW)Matt-S]

There's an exilus slot now, so the ammo mutation argument is a bit silly, especially since Bramma has 80 capacity.

Can't believe you even think that's a downside. You just seem to be clutching at straws to be able to say "Bramma isn't actually overpowered".

Please note that I do use this weapon, as it's extremely efficient and gets things done, and this is why I think it should be nerfed. It's just too powerful that there's no reason for me to take anything else for any situation.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

28 minutes ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

There's an exilus slot now, so the ammo mutation argument is a bit silly, especially since Bramma has 80 capacity.

Your entire argument is silly. Do you even have any idea of how much work is involved in your sentence? An exilus slot requires you to either spend 20 platinum to unlock, or craft an exilus adapter that costs 1 forma among other things. That adapter takes time to make. 

A bramma with 80 capacity also means you forma-ed it 5 times. That means to get a bramma with 80 capacity, you spent the equivalent of 6 forma to get it there, and leveled it a total of 6 times. 
(once, then 5 more times to get it to level 40, and put an orokin catalyst in it.) Very few weapons want an exilus slot as bad as the Bramma, otherwise you are spending slots, or using other means to keep your ammo up. 

Yes, its a downside. My Tigiris Prime has 120 shots, replenishes ammo far easier then the bramma and has only ran out of ammo once on a single mission. A several hour survival after it took multiple shots to kill the higher level enemies. 

Yes, having to unlock its Exilus slot to have ammo for it is a downside. Otherwise you lower its max damage just so you can use the weapon consistently without swapping to other weapons every 30 seconds. 

39 minutes ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

You just seem to be clutching at straws to be able to say "Bramma isn't actually overpowered".

Actually I said its a good weapon, and nerfing it would be a big insult to the amount of players who put time and effort into getting one. Even more of an insult to the people who leveled it 6 times, or spent time farming MULTIPLE bramma to infuse it and get it to its true potential. 

Almost like you don't understand the concept of endgrame weapons, or rewards. Almost like you also are just salty that a weapon is good, without an actual good reason to nerf it. 

(Plot twist, your argument to nerf it is literally the worst. You could not have a weaker argument.)

42 minutes ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Please note that I do use this weapon, as it's extremely efficient and gets things done, and this is why I think it should be nerfed. It's just too powerful that there's no reason for me to take anything else for any situation.

And this right here is garbage logic. 

#1 there are enemies in warframe that are largely immune to the Bramma. 

#2 IN every game with weapons ever, there exists a "best weapon" that is the best weapon for most situations. The Kuva Bramma takes special amount of effort to get, a boss has to be killed for it, then you actually have to put effort into making the weapon good. Forma, catalyst, mods, exilus yatta yata. Most my weapons do NOT use exilus. 

Yet you are complaining that the weapon is good, that it is a great reward for a boss, and so you want it nerfed because there is no reason for you to take anything else in the game....

Here's the problem. When you nerf the Bramma, a new best weapon takes its place. Let's say the Tigris Prime becomes the new best weapon to have. 

You still have the same problem. You still have a single best weapon that is extremely efficient and gets things done. Its also so powerful that there's "no reason for you to take any other weapon into any situation" (Except for the situation where status procs are terrible, or eidolon hunting or etc....) 

So you nerf the bramma just so a different weapon can be the best. Your solution fixes absolutely nothing, and just punishes anyone and everyone for getting a weapon because its "So powerful." 

How about this. How about you do the smart thing, and rational thing. You can use other weapons when you don't feel like using a bow, instead of forcing a player wide nerf, and let people enjoy their endgame bow that is the only bow worth using right now. 

TL;DR your opinion is trash.

[Bristoling]

2 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Wrong for both of you. The Bramma  does require Mastery Rank. If you want proof, make a new warframe account, and at rank 0 attempt to get a bramma. It can't be done. You do actually have to beat the Warframe story, which requires Mastery rank, then defeat a lich.

Yes, the story quest requiring MR5, alright yes you completely destroyed everyone's argument. Or, maybe realize you are arguing semantics.

Ammo mutation in an exilus slot is something that anyone can use, it isn't even an argument. Even without it, running out of ammo isn't something one should be worried in everyday missions.

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Strictly speaking, a weapon being the best and being used in practically in 99% of content is nearly always the case in every game where new weapons that are released that are stronger then previous weapons. When the strongest weapon is found, people flock to it, then make due in the meantime till they have it unlocked.

Do you realize that adding every a single new weapon be "the best" invalidates all the rest of the previously added weapons? Do you even know what a definition of a powercreep is? You seem to think that every game has to have a single "best" weapon that far outclasses other weapons and this is the only way a game can be designed, and every newly added weapon has to be better than the rest. That isn't true.

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Here's the problem. When you nerf the Bramma, a new best weapon takes its place. Let's say the Tigris Prime becomes the new best weapon to have

There won't be a singular "best" weapon after Bramma nerf because other weapons are more in line with each other, which promotes diversity if there are more weapons on the same power level. Imagine it like a scale, where currently there's 10 weapons in 70-80 power range, and Bramma that is alone as 94. Why do you think putting Bramma back into 70-80 power range would be disastrous? Why not have 11 weapons in 70-80 power range increasing diversity and choice, compared to subconsciously forcing everyone to pick 1 weapon?

Warframe can and should be balanced to have numerous "best weapons", not one that has clearly OP stats and usability. You are having fun using only Bramma now, but you are shooting yourself in the foot, because now every new weapon DE releases is going to be S#&$ in your opinion because it won't beat Bramma. You will be using the same weapon, same playstyle, and you will more likely get bored with the game earlier and quit. By defending objectively OP weapon you are doing yourself a disservice.

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Actually I said its a good weapon, and nerfing it would be a big insult to the amount of players who put time and effort into getting one.

So I guess keeping Hema as a 5k mutagen farm unlock is fine because reducing it is an insult to players. And that silly Conclave guy is your hero. Lol ok.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

^^ Ammo Mutation Mod is pretty much needed for Bramma since it only picks up Sniper Ammo (since it counts as Bow Ammo 🤷‍♂️). It’s hardly noticeable when doing your everyday star chart Missions but for something like Anomaly Railjack, lack of Ammo Mutation means you better bring your Secondary with you because you would need it soon. 

I did a survival mission and a defense mission with it. 

Without an ammo mod, I basically get to use my bramma every 2 waves in defense missions. In survival, I basically got 2 minutes with it then swapped to my melee. When I was doing the Sentient Event I had to run around and replenish ammo every so often to keep killing things and that was with the ammo mutation.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Just now, Bristoling said:

Yes, the story quest requiring MR5, alright yes you completely destroyed everyone's argument. Or, maybe realize you are arguing semantics.

Yea no. You said there was NO MR requirement. Let along did you ever admit you have to kill a lich for it. The average mr 5 has no way of killing said lich without outside help. Past level 60 the average mr 5 player doesn't have a chance solo. 

2 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Ammo mutation in an exilus slot is something that anyone can use,

Except that if you don't have an exilus adapter, you can't unlock it. You either cough up 20 plat, build en exilus adapter after farming its blueprint, sacrifice a forma to build said adapter, or you sacrifice a mod slot for ammo mutation. 

If you were honest, you'd realize that a bramma requires ammo to shoot. A bramma with no ammo does 0 damage. 0 damage isn't exactly known for being op. 

4 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Do you realize that adding every a single new weapon be "the best" invalidates all the rest of the previously added weapons?

That's why new stronger weapons come out. The reason kuva liches were added, were to give players new and stronger weapons. That's exactly the reason why "Prime Access" is a thing. To give players stronger warframes and weapons. Prime warframes completely invalidate previously added weapons and gear. 

Frost Prime completely invalidates Frost. That's the entire point. Umbra Excalibur, completely invalidates Excalibur. 

That's why there's an INCENTIVE. So when players play the game, they unlock something new, and have a goal to get a new stronger weapon. Warframe without power creep would be boring. A person would find a single set of weapons that they like, then would never have to get a new weapon ever again. If all the weapons were equal and did the same damage, there's no point in getting new weapons. The last weapon is as strong as the next. 

8 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

You seem to think that every game has to have a single "best" weapon that far outclasses other weapons and this is the only way a game can be designed,

Wrong. I said that every game HAS a single best weapon. 

That means that a particular weapon of a particular build is the best. It does the most damage, its the "excalibur" of the game that every player wishes they have. It's a fact. Every game has them. Doesn't matter if it's dark souls, destiny 1 or 2, warframe, monster hunter, final fantasy and so on. 

There is a best weapon, people want it because its powerful, and when new weapons come out? Players have a reason to keep playing. It's so they can get the newest and strongest weapon. 

Almost like warframe is like an MMO that has new stronger gear as expansions come out. Kinda like how world of warcraft had stronger weapons and gear as rewards as more time passed by. Almost like everything you say, couldn't be more wrong. 

11 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Warframe can and should be balanced to have numerous "best weapons",

Warframe already does have numerous best weapons. 

Your desire to nerf the bramma neither changes this, or fixes anything. It simply removes the fun in the game. 

What's the best kitgun? What's the best zaw? How about the best archgun? How about the best operator amp? How about the best shotgun? How about the best eidolon killer? How about the best lich killer? 

The bramma doesn't kill enemies like Lephantis well. How about the best boss killer for shooting weakpoints? How about the best melee and secondary weapons? Did you forget you can use a secondary weapon and a melee with your bramma? 

You clearly did, cause there are multiple times that I have had a bramma in my hands and swapped to melee. I had a reason to as well. When my warframe gets hurt, I swap to melee for lifesteal. Or when I have to pick an item up, say in a mobile defense mission you can't use your primary weapon. 

There are plenty of times where the bramma isn't the best weapon of choice. But you just want it nerfed cause its the "Meta Weapon." Yea, no dice. Your arguments for it aren't even good. 

If it had infinite ammo, fired instantly, killed every enemy in the game to the point you could two shot eidolons with it, you might have had a point. Until the Bramma kills orb mothers, your entire argument is just bogus. 

[Bristoling]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Yea no. You said there was NO MR requirement. Let along did you ever admit you have to kill a lich for it. The average mr 5 has no way of killing said lich without outside help. Past level 60 the average mr 5 player doesn't have a chance solo.

As in, run public missions so others can do everything for you. You are arguing semantics here, because the difference between mr5 or mr9 is non consequential to my argument. I'm happy to retract this position for the sake of transparency. This only means 10 out of my 11 assertions were correct anyway.

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Except that if you don't have an exilus adapter, you can't unlock it. You either cough up 20 plat, build en exilus adapter after farming its blueprint, sacrifice a forma to build said adapter, or you sacrifice a mod slot for ammo mutation. 

You are already spending 20p on Catalyst, 58p on 5 forma if you count bundle price. Adding another 11p for another forma from the bundle to build it is not a massive expense since you already spent 78p. Even outright buying it is a difference of 78p vs 98p, not significant in the grand scheme of things. You don't sacrifice a mod slot if you are unlocking a mod slot. Your reasoning is illogical.

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That's why new stronger weapons come out. The reason kuva liches were added, were to give players new and stronger weapons. That's exactly the reason why "Prime Access" is a thing. To give players stronger warframes and weapons. Prime warframes completely invalidate previously added weapons and gear.

Yes, and there would be nothing wrong in these weapons to come out with stats that are top tier without being overpoweringly better than everything else. Which is what happened to most of the latest additions. Apart from Nukor and Bramma, other kuva weapons or latest primes didn't overpower everything else. They landed in top tiers, adding diversity instead of robbing diversity by making all the other weapons look bad in comparison. Take Corinth Prime for comparison - it's much better than the Corinth, invalidating it, but it isn't as strong to overshadow all other shotguns or other weapons. Again, your argument doesn't make sense.

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There is a best weapon, people want it because its powerful, and when new weapons come out? Players have a reason to keep playing. It's so they can get the newest and strongest weapon.

Which is another problem with current day Warframe and a trap you seem to have fallen into. You won't extend playtime by adding new weapons. Weapons aren't content. Weapons are means to do content with and development should focus on giving us more things to do, not more things to do old things with. Another bad argument.

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Wrong. I said that every game HAS a single best weapon. 

Your justification was that Warframe should have a single best weapon because other games have it. It is also useless to bring up single player games like Dark Souls that have a finite story outside of NG+. But I think I understand your point, so let me respond properly:

There's nothing wrong with having a single weapon that stands out from other weapons in terms of power, as long as it is a hard to acquire, prestige weapon that is effectively a "chase unique" that everyone wants to get, but only a few can get their hands on it. Bramma is nothing like that, because killing a Lich is not hard or prestigious at all. If it was a 1000 day log-in weapon, or farmable from some uber hard, challenging boss, there would be no problem with its stats. But it isn't, which is the reason why Bramma shouldn't be as powerful as it is currently.

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Did you forget you can use a secondary weapon and a melee with your bramma?

I'm not sure even you yourself understand a point you're trying to make there.

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Your desire to nerf the bramma neither changes this, or fixes anything. It simply removes the fun in the game. 

No. It would bring it in line with other weapons in terms of time to kill per normal mission parameters. It is obviously out of line for 99% of gameplay. You might bring up Orb Mothers (Bramma is fine there actually), or Eidolons, but justifying 99% of the context by bringing up less than 1% is simply disingenuous. It wouldn't remove fun. It would extend your fun because you would have bigger weapon selection if more weapons were on the same level, that can be done by buffing every other weapon, or nerfing one weapon. I hope I don't have to explain which action is more logical.

 

Bramma has OP stats for 99% of regular gameplay compared to rest of the weapons. It shouldn't be because it isn't all that hard to acquire and it isn't "rare" enough to justify its stats. Since now we cannot make Bramma more rare/harder/challenging to acquire because people already have it, and since we don't have challenging/elite content where Bramma parts could be a possible drop anyway (unless we put it somewhere like Eidolons), there is no reason to treat it as some unique/rare/prestige weapon deserving the stats that it has.

If your response is gonna be another "but muh fun though" because you like playing games where you are an invincible godmode frame that presses 1 to kill all enemies in 50m range, presses 3 to quadruple the drops, presses 4 to bring up "mission success" screen, and wants Bramma to one shot everything forever and ever because "fun", then I think we are done, because you don't realize that your design philosophy is actually hurting your own enjoyment. Agree to disagree etc.

 

Still can't believe you actually used this sort of reasoning as your argument 😄

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nerfing it would be a big insult to the amount of players who put time and effort into getting one.

Especially since it isn't even harder to farm it than a regular Prime weapon.

[Sebastianx]

It's not OP, hear me out, there are weapons in the game that can 1 shot every enemy up to level 150, but you know why people still use the Bramma over those? The same reason they used old Ignis, convenience, you literally aim in the general direction and shoot, and after you've done over 10000 missions in Warframe, you start getting a tiny little bit bored of some things, so you resort to the most comfortable way of playing, and that is Bramma for primaries, or old Catchmoon for secondaries, or spin2win back when Maiming Strike was a thing.

If DE wants to "nerf" the Bramma, just add a very tanky enemy in the game that you have to shoot weak points to deal damage to, for every faction, and you'll see a spike in the usage of snipers instead of Bramma.

[(PSN)The_Soul_Rider31]

Yes, kuva bramma is a very powerfull weapon but, frankly, i think there's another BIG MISTAKE weapon.. The REDEEMER PRIME.. This is insane, broken, with its projectile it can 1shots the most parts of high level enemies (+100-150LV). Look at Condrix, it shots everything. Nerfs the dokrahm (because it can seems a gunblade with exodia contagion arcane) it's a bullS#&$, it's more difficult to create that powerful build on zaw than on Redemeer because you have to be mr15 and max rank on cetus and find the arcane that come out ONLY one time at year and for other obviously reasons..

Finally, i think the Redeemer nerf is more right than other melee weapons, such as dokrahm which just have a nerf on the shoulders.. I hope that nerf arrives and the same thing for the dokrahm buff

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

21 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

As in, run public missions so others can do everything for you.

Sounds like you are letting them do everything for you. Maybe try playing the game actually? Or even better. Playing Solo. You'd be doing everyone a favor at this point. 

22 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

This only means 10 out of my 11 assertions were correct anyway.

Nope. Quite the opposite. You've had one assertion that was half correct. The bramma is mr 15 weapon, but it bypasses the mr lock which is something I didn't know. 

Otherwise, no joke. Everything you have said has been wrong. Try again. 

24 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

You are already spending 20p on Catalyst, 58p on 5 forma if you count bundle price. Adding another 11p for another forma from the bundle to build it is not a massive expense since you already spent 78p. Even outright buying it is a difference of 78p vs 98p, not significant in the grand scheme of things. You don't sacrifice a mod slot if you are unlocking a mod slot. Your reasoning is illogical.

Try again. If you read what I said, if a person doesn't want to spend the plat, or can't make an exilus slot, then they sacrifice a mod slot that could otherwise be used as a damage increase for ammo mutation. 

Ammo mutation is required for the bramma, thus you no exilus slot = less damage. The weapon requires ammo mutation to function. 

You are the illogical person here buddy. If you understood or appreciated logic, you might actually respect the time investment on the time spent from forma leveling this weapon, the materials put into to make it good, or realize that once again, everything you say is bogus. 

Just a small fyi. You are better off disagreeing with me, then winning this argument cause you don't have a point. You want to nerf it cause its the best option. You argument has been beaten from the simple fact there will always be a meta best weapon. 

That's not even something you can even attempt a proper argument against. 

30 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Yes, and there would be nothing wrong in these weapons to come out with stats that are top tier without being overpoweringly better than everything else. Which is what happened to most of the latest additions. Apart from Nukor and Bramma, other kuva weapons or latest primes didn't overpower everything else.

Wrong. The Nukor is perfectly balanced believe it or not. You just have terrible opinions and nothing you say is accurate. The Kuva Nukor has a base damage of 21. Then you add the elemental bonus to get its full damage. 

The atomos, another secondary pistol has 29 damage. The real difference between these too is the nukor's massive jump in status chance. The kuva nukor typically has higher damage, but considering the nukor is an endgame handheld version of the atomos and other held pistols of its type, its expected to be the best. 

Congratulations, it is. Of the handheld beam secondaries, the one carried by a death resistance lich is the most powerful. Who would have thought? 

The Bramma is in the same boat. Bows needed some love, and a new stronger bow to stay relevant. The Lenz was the previously best bow we got, and it is outperformed in dps when it comes to things like the acceltra, or the tigris prime. 

38 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Which is another problem with current day Warframe and a trap you seem to have fallen into. You won't extend playtime by adding new weapons. Weapons aren't content.

Except that everything you said in this sentence was wrong. 

Are weapons not content? Do they just materialize into existence? Yea, you are clearly delusional. Weapons are content. You can see this in any game that comes out with stronger weapons over time. Most MMO's have new weapons added. 

Games like, Diablo, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 14, Warframe, borderlands 2 and 3, Destiny, Monster Hunter World. 

Adding a new weapon is new content, especially if that weapon gets a new model, a new mechanic, or if that weapon is a reward for new content. 

Kuva liches were a new boss added to warframe. They came with new endgame weapons as rewards for beating them. 

The kuva line of weaponry is NEW CONTENT. While you could say that they just threw a skin on some of the old weapons, and gave them more relevant upgrades... It's still content, and the new weapons that didn't exist in any form like the Bramma are pure 100% new content. 

At this point I hope you are trying to troll. Otherwise you are just wrong. New content gives people a reason to come back and play. See, people like getting stronger in games. New way to get stronger, new weapons and gear do that. 

That's why it works in Destiny, monster hunter, warframe, and hell, even the division 2. New weapons have a way of making people want to try them out. 

Please start actually making sense. Do new weapons not need models? Are they not something added to the game? Do you not know the definition of content?
 

con·tent²

/ˈkäntent/

 

noun

noun: content; plural noun: contents

1. the things that are held or included in something.

Yes, new weapons are content. Especially new weapons that have unique mechanics like the kuva weapons. 
 

47 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

Your justification was that Warframe should have a single best weapon because other games have it. It is also useless to bring up single player games like Dark Souls that have a finite story outside of NG+. But I think I understand your point, so let me respond properly:

Not even close to what I said, not even close to understanding it either. 

Every game that has a combat system has a defacto best weapon in the game. In single player games, the best weapons are usually rewards you get from beating the final bosses, acquired in raids, or built over time. 

Doom is a good example. In Doom Eternal there is a single best weapon in the game. It's called the BFG. You know its the best cause firing a single shot of the BFG can kill every enemy near you without even shooting it in that enemies direction. It doesn't even have to hit to kill it. There are only a few enemies it doesn't instantly murder. 

The BFG is without a doubt, the game's best weapon. It does the most damage, and kills the most enemies per shot, regardless if it hits or not. You know how they balance the BFG? (Similar to the bramma, they gave it ammo constraints. You only have a certain amount of shots in it before it runs out of ammo... weird how that sounds familiar.)

In warframe, if DE removed every weapon except the Skana, the Skana would be the best weapon by default. So when you say you want the Bramma nerfed cause its too efficient you change very little about the game except replace the bramma with something else. This is pointless, and just makes the game LESS FUN. 

This neither fixes the problem you CLAIM you want to solve, but it just punishes anyone for investing in weapons. PEOPLE LIKE ME, are REALLY REALLY TIRED of dumping 6 forma + into a weapon, plus anything else just to have it nerfed into the ground and made unusable. 

55 minutes ago, Bristoling said:

There's nothing wrong with having a single weapon that stands out from other weapons in terms of power, as long as it is a hard to acquire, prestige weapon that is effectively a "chase unique" that everyone wants to get, but only a few can get their hands on it. Bramma is nothing like that, because killing a Lich is not hard or prestigious at all. If it was a 1000 day log-in weapon, or farmable from some uber hard, challenging boss, there would be no problem with its stats. But it isn't, which is the reason why Bramma shouldn't be as powerful as it is currently.

This is called an opinion, and is also wrong. The Kuva liches started off as a boss that would kill the tenno if you didn't get their parazon combination correct the first time. 

The kuva lich were also special bosses at the time. They are currently the hardest bosses to kill in the game, cause you are unlikely to kill them the first attempt. You also have to farm kuva liches, as you have to actively farm them. 

I heard about the new kuva lich weapons. I came back to warframe and spent 3 days farming kuva larvlings until the bramma even spawned. I had several larvalings glitch out unable to see what weapon they had so when I turned them into liches out of boredom, I was quite disappointed to see them have something else. 

Secondly your opinion is literally terrible. having them as a 1000 day log in reward is about the most awful idea I have ever heard ever. Tell that to somebody who is new to warframe and see if that gets them excited. 

Yea, dude! There's this incredible weapon. But don't worry! It will only take you 781 more logins to get. Just 2 more years man! Just think of it! 

The more you talk, the worse everything you say sounds. You literally could not make that sound any worse. Please do not ever work in making games. Ever. 

1 hour ago, Bristoling said:

2 hours ago, Bristoling said:

Warframe can and should be balanced to have numerous "best weapons",

I'm not sure even you yourself understand a point you're trying to make there.

The Bramma is arguably the best primary weapon. There are times in Warframe, where the best primary weapon doesn't help you. You can have a best primary weapon, a best melee weapon, and a best secondary weapon. 

The bramma is great, but that doesn't help you in an archwing mission, or if you are farming railjack mods. My point was that the bramma can be equipped and used in conjunction with an entire loadout made out numerous "best weapons." 
The best secondary, melee, sentinel, and operator amp weapons for example. 

 

1 hour ago, Bristoling said:

It is obviously out of line for 99% of gameplay. You might bring up Orb Mothers (Bramma is fine there actually), or Eidolons, but justifying 99% of the context by bringing up less than 1% is simply disingenuous. It wouldn't remove fun. It would extend your fun because you would have bigger weapon selection if more weapons were on the same level, that can be done by buffing every other weapon, or nerfing one weapon. I hope I don't have to explain which action is more logical.

Bramma has OP stats for 99% of regular gameplay compared to rest of the weapons. It shouldn't be because it isn't all that hard to acquire and it isn't "rare" enough to justify its stats. Since now we cannot make Bramma more rare/harder/challenging to acquire because people already have it, and since we don't have challenging/elite content where Bramma parts could be a possible drop anyway (unless we put it somewhere like Eidolons), there is no reason to treat it as some unique/rare/prestige weapon deserving the stats that it has.

If your response is gonna be another "but muh fun though" because you like playing games where you are an invincible godmode frame that presses 1 to kill all enemies in 50m range, presses 3 to quadruple the drops, presses 4 to bring up "mission success" screen, and wants Bramma to one shot everything forever and ever because "fun", then I think we are done, because you don't realize that your design philosophy is actually hurting your own enjoyment. Agree to disagree etc.

Still can't believe you actually used this sort of reasoning as your argument 😄

 

Just like how I can't believe you are repeating yourself over and over. 

The Kuva weapons are made to be endgame weapons. Endgame weapons, are designed for... ENDGAME ENEMIES. 

So if 99% of Warframe's content isn't endgame, then the Bramma is going to be Overpowered for 99% of the game. 

Your logic is so terrible, its atrocious. In Monster Hunter there are typically 3 ranks. Low rank, which has the weakest gear. High Rank, which is in the middle. Finally Master Rank. Master Rank weapons are balanced to fight master rank monsters. 

Master rank monsters can have 66,000 health. Low rank monsters typically don't have more then 5k. 

Master Rank is less then 50% of the game's content. Most of the content is high rank or low rank. But if you take a master rank weapon to low rank or high rank, you trivialize it. 

The problem with your logic, is that you nerf a weapon for being too good at killing low level enemies, when the weapon was designed for high level enemies. If you nerf it, so it isn't op on low rank or high rank, you completely make it worthless for master rank. 

And your opinion is still trash. Hey, I have a suggestion for you. Play something other then the starmap. If you want a challenge in warframe? Go into a solo survival, alone and stop demanding others play the game how you want. 

1 hour ago, Bristoling said:

Still can't believe you actually used this sort of reasoning as your argument 

Respecting a player's time investment is actually important. If they put effort into a weapon, and you nerf it into the ground, the player experiences something called "Frustration." 

Not that you would know what respect means. You don't know the definition of Content, or logic. 

 

 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

53 minutes ago, Sebastianx said:

If DE wants to "nerf" the Bramma, just add a very tanky enemy in the game that you have to shoot weak points to deal damage to, for every faction, and you'll see a spike in the usage of snipers instead of Bramma.

They don't even need to add enemies, they just need to tweak the balance between chumps and heavies. AoE weapons should be great at killing Crewmen and Chargers, but pure worthless garbage at killing Corpus Techs or Ancients. In a perfect world, the game would literally laugh at you for firing your Bramma at a Heavy Gunner.