Upcoming Protea Changes!

[dwqrf]

il y a 16 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

really? so you want to gimp yourself constantly by casting a super long animation that then also stunlocks you in a super long animation to rewind, to then gimp yourself in a super long animation again? this is how you want to play?

Certainly not, just trying to point out that the ability, ALL-IN-ALL, isn't underpowered neither is sustainability, nor damage out put. I just dislike the range, and would rather have two aoe (on recast spot, and on recall spot).  But yeah, it's still a long rewind anyways. The rewind duration should be of the same duration (+-1 or 2s) whatever the duration of the Anchor.

Snapshotting the ability as either a Ho sh!t button or a channeled ability would satisfy me, but as it isn't the case, it might be as well complicated coding. I'd rather hope for small buff of simple stats instead of a complete rework or the mecanic.

[Melanholic7]

Pls,yes! Thats what i need!!! she will still be weak dmg wise on high lvl zones (compared to alot of other frames or just weapons) , but still fun and better than right now.

My MAIN problem is that its HARD to ude her 4 in like exterminates - cause all team is running forward, and it will rewind you back after = you will be separated from group....sadly... I wish we could not be autorewinded and 4 skill gave some bonus energy back if we choosed not to rewind back after using this skill.... 
ALSO any ETA for those buffs??

Edited June 19, 2020 by Melanholic7

[SmokinDice]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

The rewind duration should be of the same duration (+-1 or 2s) whatever the duration of the Anchor.

so you want to watch a 7 second long cutscene where you can't do anything watching your self walking backwards..

I am truly sorry but I dont undersatnd any of your suggestions, they all really dont make sense.. I'm sorry.

 

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

and would rather have two aoe (on recast spot, and on recall spot).

thats the first good thing you might added to the conversation. it is AN idea to give it at least some more value..

 

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I'd rather hope for small buff of simple stats instead of a complete rework or the mecanic.

I undersatnd this mindset, I really do, and I try to come up with ideas that take as little work as possible.. but in the case of this ability and the way it is right now, there is really no saving it. I will completly ignore it forever, not because it doesn't look and feels cool, because it does. but it is factually 95% useless in all situations. so why even bother with it in its current state?

 

I use it in defense, to cast it on the point, to then go out and collect loot and spare myself the way walking back... does this really warrants an ultimate fourth ability? I dont know.. ^^

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[Aeon94]

11 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

But you could imagine the turret still have 6 base ammo, shooting at 3/s, but lasting longer than its most efficient firerate ; get it ? Meaning it would most likely (more than now) shoot all its bullet and disapear, or else, stay a big longer and have more time to find targets.

1 hour ago, Aeon94 said:

You can't keep 6 ammo and 3 ammo/sec firerate and expect it to last for 3 sec. It doesn't make sense, unless DE also changed ammo and duration behaviour with this change.

Read carefully please. As long as duration is directly tied to ammo, what you have said can't be achieved. They have to seperate those stats first then buff the duration.

Their statement is so vague and doesn't explain how they will handle it. It's safe to assume that they will keep ammo and duration behaviour  ( that's how they want it to work ) and buff base ammo or nerf firerate to match the new base duration which is 3 sec.

 

[Darkrai2002]

On a unrelated note give hildryn a passive 

[SmokinDice]

16 minutes ago, Darkrai2002 said:

On a unrelated note give hildryn a passive 

• Overshields protect Hildryn's Health pool from damage types that normally bypass shields to directly affect health, such as  Toxin damage.
• When her Overshield pool is depleted, any excess damage from the last hit are negated, preventing damage from leaking into the Shield pool. This also occurs when her Shield pool is depleted, preventing any excess damage from leaking into her Health pool.
• Hildryn becomes invulnerable to all damage for 3 seconds upon her shields being depleted. This effect will only reset if her shields are allowed to fully replenish.

• All of Hildryn's abilities drain her Overshield and Shield points, as she lacks any energy capacity.
  • Overshields take priority over shields when spending points on abilities and channeling.
• Energy Orb pickup restores 25 shield points and instantly bypasses the shield recharge delay enforced on receiving damage to shields, allowing Hildryn to quickly recharge her defensive barrier in combat.

- from the wiki

 I personally think this is a lot for one passive.

 

if however somehow energy orbs would restore 100 shield to make it at least a little bit more relevant, that would be cool I guess

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[Colyeses]

17 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.

This doesn't really help, though.

Blaze Artillery needs to choose: Either it is meant to be a quick, spammable burst of damage, or a longer lasting ability that can hold down an area. This current half-and-half thing feels awkward and clunky.

I'd advise either restricting the duration to 3 seconds and having Ability Duration increase firerate, while giving the turret Vauban's level scaling and removing the combo effect...

OR

Increase the duration to upwards of 10 seconds, keep the firerate fixed, and either change the damage values to Base damage + Power Strength + 20% per hit, or Base Damage + 10% +Power Strength per hit.

It needs to have a set, solid identity. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 30 minutes, Aeon94 a dit :

Read carefully please. As long as duration is directly tied to ammo, what you have said can't be achieved. They have to seperate those stats first then buff the duration

Try untying those two stats.

What's so hard to imagine in a turret that has six shot, fire 3 shot per second, and last 3 seconds ?.

il y a 35 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

so you want to watch a 7 second long cutscene where you can't do anything watching your self walking backwards..

I am truly sorry but I dont undersatnd any of your suggestions, they all really dont make sense.. I'm sorry.

I said a rewind that last ONE OR TWO SECONDS, whatever the actual duration of the Anchor (because right now, a long duration anchor = a long rewind).

Come on, i'm not talking rocket science here.

[SmokinDice]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

The rewind duration should be of the same duration (+-1 or 2s) whatever the duration of the Anchor.

here you specifically said it should be the same duration as anchor, in which I even gave you the benefit of the doubt of your suggestes -1s. which would make it a 7 second cutscene for me right now. since my anchor lasts for 8 seconds. (on its base ofcourse.. its actually 16 seconds for me on my built.)

the duration right now as it is is about one or two seconds.. so if you meant that, then you already have it like this right now.. so in both cases you either have it as it is right now, or your suggestion again, makes no sense. sorry did you even played her yet? I really dont understand what you want.

also none of this talking is fixing any issues or is leading anywhere to fix her issues, since the rewind animation is not the problem here and actually really cool.

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

here you specifically said it should be the same duration as anchor, in which I even gave you the benefit of the doubt of your suggestes -1s. which would make it a 7 second cutscene for me right now. since my anchor lasts for 8 seconds. (on its base ofcourse.. its actually 16 seconds for me on my built.)

the duration right now as it is is about one or two seconds.. so if you meant that, then you already have it like this right now.. so in both cases you either have it as it is right now, or your suggestion again, makes no sense. sorry did you even played her yet? I really dont understand what you want.

also none of this talking is fixing any issues or is leading anywhere to fix her issues, since the rewind animation is not the problem here and actually really cool.

The rewind duration should be of the same duration (+-1 or 2s)  ; SPACE ; whatever the duration of the Anchor.

When you have a 30s anchor, the rewind duration is really long. I suppose it may be really longer than 2s, or maybe my perception of time is distorted (ha)

[SmokinDice]

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

The rewind duration should be of the same duration (+-1 or 2s)  ; SPACE ; whatever the duration of the Anchor.

When you have a 30s anchor, the rewind duration is really long. I suppose it may be really longer than 2s, or maybe my perception of time is distorted (ha)

again, even if, a very minimal change suggestion that does not change anything.. looking at a cool animation for 1s, 2s or 4s, really doesn't make a diffrence, since you dont use it that often (never) anyway

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, SmokinDice a dit :

again, even if, a very minimal change suggestion that does not change anything.. looking at a cool animation for 1s, 2s or 4s, really doesn't make it diffrence, since you dont use it that often (never) anyway

I mean, don't you ALWAYS have Anchor active at all time while spamming abilities ?

[SmokinDice]

16 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I mean, don't you ALWAYS have Anchor active at all time while spamming abilities ?

NO!

now we are getting to a point and the core issue! where you will understand hopefully

 because I dont want to get teleported backwards where I was SIXTEEN seconds ago, all while having huge visual clutter around my character obscuring my vision, for literally zero benefit..

I will not die, I will never die, not in this 16 second time window and not anywhere else, because this is warframe, we dont die in this game.. so the protection part is 99% irrelevant.

I also dont want to get my energy back, because chances are I am at full energy when rewinding, because I already have infinite energy provided to me by my 3 and how the game plays.. so when rewinding I actually LOSE 100 energy, because the time record starts AFTER I cast temporal anchor.. 

so this ability is DOUBLE NEGATIVE to use! with ZERO benefit. thats just the truth.

 

you might like it visually, you might find it enjoyable to use, sure, but in practicality it is sadly just useless, it has no relevant uses..

 

and ironically enough you aren't even controlling time, because you dont have control over it, you get ported back after a set amount of time and you dont even know what will happen in those 16 seconds.. you are a time slave after using it.. you have no control over WHEN, and HOW MUCH you want to be set back. you HAVE TO decide in ADVANCE before using it and plan ahead 16 seconds.. which is a lot in such a fast game.. and sure you can just cancel it.... but why even use it then? you just wasted 100 energy and dont even get that back.. also it is clunky to cancle.. so just dont use it and be fine. and save you all the trouble.

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[AltairFerenc]

Now I might even build her!
Also Nyx rework sometime soon^TM pls?

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

NO!

now we are getting to a point and the core issue! where you will understand hopefully

I enjoy my Protea with blind rage on a defense type mission, casting ulti before spamming like a madman, using all the ressource I can generate from zenurik, 3, energize, and equilibrium+synth fiber, allowing me to have a insane dps while casting smart-passive boosting every single grenades, dispensers, and the next anchor. And if it happens that i will have more energy than before, I can ensure to have low energy before forcing the recall.

Maybe you don't like it, or don't find it powerful, but maybe if you don't use the whole kit, you'll always find her weak.

[SmokinDice]

18 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I enjoy my Protea with blind rage on a defense type mission, casting ulti before spamming like a madman, using all the ressource I can generate from zenurik, 3, energize, and equilibrium+synth fiber, allowing me to have a insane dps while casting smart-passive boosting every single grenades, dispensers, and the next anchor. And if it happens that i will have more energy than before, I can ensure to have low energy before forcing the recall.

Maybe you don't like it, or don't find it powerful, but maybe if you don't use the whole kit, you'll always find her weak.

I dont even find her weak, thats the point I am advocating. she is extremely powerful, and has such a good base concept. the turrets damage could have been okay too had it just been given more time to ramp up properly..

I find her WAY WAY to much demanding and first and foremost EXTRAORDINARILY Spammy.. the way you describe it, and the way I play her too, but without 4 since it is completly unecessary espeically with your setup that I am using too mind you, the play style of her is exactly this:

431222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222 wait wait wait (rewind animation), 41222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222222 wait wait wait, oh I now have no energy because temporal ate it all.. o wait I got energy back from 3 431222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222222222222

222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222

 

this is what you are playing.. this is what you do with your keyboard.. all while spinning your mouse in circles to ensure all angles are covered it so SO hectic and demanding, because the turret is so badly designed

 

I'd much rather have 4 active "passively" at all times,

put down my 3 chilled and relaxed,

place down my 1-4 turrets (which ever seems to be the best balance) that will cover an area for 20 seconds,

while I can then actually play the game,

use my weapons, jump around, chill, shoot some guys myself, help get other objectives, gather ressources, and have a nice and chill gameplay experience.

 

and not 2222222 look left222222222222222222222222222look right2222222222222look back2222222222222222222222222222

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

431222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222 wait wait wait (rewind animation), 431222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222222 wait wait wait, oh I now have no energy because temporal ate it all.. o wait I got energy back from 3 431222222222222222222222222222222212222222222222222222222

Actually I play : passive+dispenser ; 222 ; passive+anchor ; 222 ; passive+shield ; 222 ; [passive+grenade ; 222]x2 ; Face tank+Recall ; passive+anchor ; 222 ; passive+dispenser.... repeat ad infinitam. You can also jump one or two dispensers in the loop to have more dps.

Missing a flat +100% power is a huge loss. Especially when playing with Blind Rage + Overextended (139% base power) ; (Overextended to counter Narrowminded.)

But Yes, it's a spammy frame. Like every spammy frame, you got to spam (hi nidus).

Edited June 19, 2020 by dwqrf

[rawr1254]

19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Grenade Fan

• Increased Duration of both grenades by 3 seconds.
• Increased Range of both grenades at max rank from 4 to 5 meters.
  • For Shield Satellite, this applies to the grenade pickup Range.
• Increased Shield Satellite grenade count from 3 to 4 to accommodate max Squad sizes.
• Increased visibility FX on available Shield Satellite grenades to aid in differentiating between the two grenades.
• Doubled the Damage of the Shrapnel Vortex grenade.
• Fixed Protea's Grenade Fan/ Shield Satellites appearing giant while using Archwing.

Our goal here is to improve efficacy, usability, and logic of Grenade Fan! 

The increased duration is ok but I think the biggest issue of the ability isnt so much the duration on the tap cast but the duration on the shield cast. The duration of the shield ability is borderline pointless since it isnt maintained for a decent duration. Similar to how Roar wasnt used as much back in the day until you made it a 30s duration, and then you also have Hildryn which can give shields pretty much forever to the team. not saying they should last forever but still a lot more than they are now.

While 4 grenades will give 4 allies shields it doesnt mean it only takes one cast. 1 cast of 4 half will wind up going to frames and half might wind up going to companions. So you still have to problem of two casts in which one of those casts might not go to what you want them to.

and the damage issue I already put my two cents into in a previous post

 

19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Blaze Artillery

• Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.
• Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.
• Fixed Protea’s Blaze Artillery not targeting ragdolled enemies. 

Our goal here is to keep the spirit of the rapid fire Artillery alive, with just a bit more punch. We will monitor for feedback after this change as well. 

 

Why dont you just record how long itd take to fire every shot in the mag and then add 5 seconds? That would make it so itd almost guarantee to never have ammo waste on the cast. Since then if enemies are walking around the corner the extra 5s would most likely let it kill them too before running out of ammo.

[SmokinDice]

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Actually I play : passive+dispenser ; 222 ; passive+anchor ; 222 ; passive + shield ; 222 ; [passive+grenade ; 222]x2 ; Face tank+Recall ; passive+anchor ; 222 ; passive+dispenser.... repeat ad infinitam.

Missing a flat +100% power is a huge loss. Especially when playing with blind rage + overextented (139% base power) ; (Overextended to counter Narrowminded.)

having to spam so much during your 4 also makes it so stressful and nerve wracking, see even keeping track of your passive while doing all this. do you not find this stressful? and what do you do all this for? its all just to put down turrets.. turrets that aren't even that strong (which I totally wouldn't mind if it werent so stressful to keep them alive) you doing so much, achieving so little.. having 180 pulse if you want to play optimally.. which is a phrase I never used before in describing anything in warframe really.. this just goes to show how poorly design and spammy it is..

 

why not reduce all the 222 in your description to just one instance  of 222 in the beginning? thats why I also think that 3 turrets is the ideal number. so you can always spam 222 to replace your three turrets (which is already spammy enough) and then use 1 or 3 to  enhanced their effects. where 1 lasts about as long as your turrets, and 3 needs to be replaced only every other rotations.. and in between those "set up" phases you have 20 seconds to actually play the game.. would that not be far more enjoyable?

it would be so much less of a nuisance and would make her SO much more enjoyable..

A turret type character BY DESIGN PHILOSOPY should always be somewhat chill , and have a mentalitly of "let the turret do the work".. here it is the other way around.. and you need towork for your turrets.. thats just wrong..

by design philosopy I mean this is what any gamer expects when playing such a character. sure it is sometimes good to throw old rules in the bin.. but here this is not such a case.. we want best girl turret girl.. not spammy girl.

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

by design philosopy

My take on a Protea buff/change/remake would be to simply have all abilities duration-paused during Anchor, removing any kind of forced spam.

[SmokinDice]

8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

My take on a Protea buff/change/remake would be to simply have all abilities duration-paused during Anchor, removing any kind of forced spam.

well thats a briliant idea!

I would actually enjoy this change!

this way the "downside" of beeing teleported hours in to the past would actually be worth to me, when my turrets would stay up for as long as I am in temporal anchor! it also makes it unecessary to rework 4 and the whole duration debate would end. EDIT: even the "Anchor" part would makes sense, since it achors all abilitys with you in time.

 I like it! 10/10

/thread

Edited June 19, 2020 by SmokinDice

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, SmokinDice a dit :

I would actually enjoy this change!

Sadly, as much as I would LOVE to see that happen, I'm trying to only keep my hopes up for a +3 meters on the ulti, or a +2 seconds more than announced on grenades and Anchor. Because that CAN happen (barely). But I'm glad you like it. Push the idea if you want !

[ebrl]

Notice that doubling the rate at which turrets gain damage and increasing base duration by 50% means that in a very simple test scenario of a single enemy being hit for the entire duration, a single turret does about 3.7x more damage during its lifetime, for an average of 2.46x sustained damage compared to current values. And these values go up if turrets are hitting more than one enemy per shot.

[Maryph]

Turret should be duration based with strenght buffing both ammo and damages, it would be a lot less cast-consumming

Range should also increase the angle, I don't know why it's not here, since every abilities with an angle can be increased with range

Edited June 19, 2020 by Maryph

[(XBOX)A Hades Satyr]

Blaze Artillery:

How about we give it 20-30 ammo base effected by duration mods, scaling damage, increase cost to 100, no duration it stays till empty, recasting calls it back to your hip and maybe refunds based on ammo spent and it takes 20-30 ammo to achieve max damage multiplier, like .25% per shot. Perhaps even to encourage use of her 4 refund ammo to the artillery spent during anchor while maintaining the damage counter. Have her ability bar display the ammo count

Alternate idea for the multiplier is each successive shot to an enemy increases damage by 100% effected by strength