The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 minutes ago, EvillNooB said:

i'm afraid those 196 pages wont change anything

release is few days away, but we got no news

And given the fact that consoles have theirs in cert.

[(NSW)Drakeon8165]

47 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

'Balance' in a PvE shooter is a mirage not worth chasing after.

Iszzz tHat a PUNnnnnn?!?!????

[---Swaggi---]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Drakeon8165 said:

Iszzz tHat a PUNnnnnn?!?!????

Maybe Ordis should take the lead from now on 🤔

[Mayahai]

I already removed the cyst on Inaros prime, can I still put new abilities on him or do I need to craft a new one?

I hope not because RIP my 3 umbra forma.

[---Swaggi---]

Just now, Mayahai said:

I already removed the cyst on Inaros prime, can I still put new abilities on him or do I need to craft a new one?

I hope not because RIP my 3 umbra forma.

You dont need a cyst in the first place xD

[(NSW)Drakeon8165]

1 minute ago, Mayahai said:

I already removed the cyst on Inaros prime, can I still put new abilities on him or do I need to craft a new one?

I hope not because RIP my 3 umbra forma.

i don't see why you wouldn't be able to

[EvillNooB]

1 minute ago, Mayahai said:

I already removed the cyst on Inaros prime, can I still put new abilities on him or do I need to craft a new one?

I hope not because RIP my 3 umbra forma.

Once they release this new system, you wont need cyst to open that door

[DeweySalt]

51 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Lol, no. Having used the Bramma extensively, the nerfed version is very noticeably less powerful (= less fun).

I'm not sure if it was clear, but I was referring to the latest nerf, not the initial 90% falloff nerf. The falloff nerf made it significantly less powerful. If you are referring to the latest nerf, perhaps it affected different builds to different degrees.

 

51 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

'Balance' in a PvE shooter is a mirage not worth chasing after. Especially not in a shooter that's meant to be a ridiculous power fantasy.

I completely agree.

[DarthVZ]

30 минут назад, EvillNooB сказал:

i'm afraid those 196 pages wont change anything

release is few days away, but we got no news

We are way too toxic for their fragile ego. They want to live in a bubble with rainbows and unicorns

[ShogunGunshow]

I really don't understand the Elitism of MR15 over 8.

Congrats, you've spent more time in Hydron. 

[EonCode]

Justo ahora, ShogunGunshow dijo:

I really don't understand the Elitism of MR15 over 8.

Congrats, you've spent more time in Hydron. 

The issue remains that in less than 1 week you have access to an important feature of the game, and the thing that you dont get is that you need time, resources and knowledge on ho wto spend resources to construct those items to level to mastery 15 maybe 15 its too much, but the fact that to be able to insert stars in an ayatan treasure its MR10 i feel like having MR 8 for HS its retarded, dumb, idiotic and hipocrite to be said that is a veteran system.

[SordidDreams]

28 minutes ago, DeweySalt said:

I'm not sure if it was clear, but I was referring to the latest nerf, not the initial 90% falloff nerf. The falloff nerf made it significantly less powerful. If you are referring to the latest nerf, perhaps it affected different builds to different degrees.

Yeah, that was not clear. The later cluster bomb changes were actually a buff overall; fewer cluster bombs but larger bomb AoE with less fall-off results in more total damage. But that's DE in a nutshell for you.

[IRVoidGuru]

13 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I really don't understand the Elitism of MR15 over 8.

Congrats, you've spent more time in Hydron. 

Start a new account. Get it to MR 8 and tell me if you find that a new player would be experienced after doing the same. If you do not understand then perhaps you haven't the understanding of "very experienced warframe players" . Or perhaps your lack of understanding comes from the "doesn't affect me mentality". Either way this isn't difficult,  it seems to me that you choose to not understand.

[Keyhound]

17 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I really don't understand the Elitism of MR15 over 8.

Congrats, you've spent more time in Hydron. 

look, its not a hard concept to grasp, a fresh mr8 will have less experience with the game than a fresh mr15. it will border on half the time played for most of them.
an mr8 doesnt have the foundation(both on knowledge, and resources) to make use of this. giving them access will screw many of them up.

belive it or not, one of the biggest reasons people give up on the game are,
1)too much early on making the game a mess to figure out.
2)not enough later on that makes playing the game feel rewarding.

putting this on mr8 which can be reached with less than 2 weeks of game(and for games like warframe this is almost nothing), will make their situation worse. there already too many mr10s asking for help on how to mod the game in the help chat... adding this will only make it even worse.

[ShogunGunshow]

Just now, Keyhound said:

look, its not a hard concept to grasp, a fresh mr8 will have less experience with the game than a fresh mr15. it will border on half the time played for most of them.
an mr8 doesnt have the foundation(both on knowledge, and resources) to make use of this. giving them access will screw many of them up.

belive it or not, one of the biggest reasons people give up on the game are,
1)too much early on making the game a mess to figure out.
2)not enough later on that makes playing the game feel rewarding.

putting this on mr8 which can be reached with less than 2 weeks of game(and for games like warframe this is almost nothing), will make their situation worse. there already too many mr10s asking for help on how to mod the game in the help chat... adding this will only make it even worse.

The system is not hard to understand. A higher MR is not going to provide the user with better reading comprehension.

[Pizzarugi]

13 hours ago, Lutesque said:

They nerfed Pull... Let that sink in for a second... PULL out of all abilities got nerfed !!! That's the type of Nerf Rational we are dealing with.

Just to add onto this, they also nerfed Valkyr's Hysteria. You know, the exalted ability nobody cares about and really only existed to make her immortal. DE didn't want her being permanently immortal so they nerfed her energy economy.

Nevermind Rhino, Nidus, Revenant, Void Mode for Operator, though.

Just saying. A lack of consistency. These either need to be nerfed as well for being permanently invulnerable or Valkyr's needs to be reverted.

[Keyhound]

Just now, ShogunGunshow said:

The system is not hard to understand. A higher MR is not going to provide the user with better reading comprehension.

its not hard to understand FOR A VETERAN. begginers need help understanding how to even change the skin on weapons. dont take your current knowledge as base. go look at the help chat and you will see what begginers find easy to understand or not.
as for higher MR not helping, i will say, yeah, but it will give them time, because it takes longer to reach mr15 than it takes to reach mr8, time that may help them grasp that comprehension.

if anything, you are just making another case for why it shouldnt be 15 either, but higher...

[---Swaggi---]

32 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I really don't understand the Elitism of MR15 over 8.

Congrats, you've spent more time in Hydron. 

This system is just not suited for beginners since you should at least a minimum of knowledge of how the game/abilities work. You just cant decide just by looking at it which warframe you should subsume 😕 

[ShogunGunshow]

4 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

its not hard to understand FOR A VETERAN.

No, it's just not hard to understand, period.

Sacrifice one of your non-primed warframes to get access to one of its abilities that you can then swap in on your other Warframes.

Considering this will guaranteed have one - if not multiple - confirmations tied to it ("This warframe will forever be lost. ARE YOU SURE?!?!" probably)? Yeah, given the other systems they're going to have interacted with up to that point, the idea that it's 'so complex oh goodness only a big brain can understand' is disingenuous. 

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, ShogunGunshow said:

No, it's just not hard to understand, period.

Sacrifice one of your non-primed warframes to get access to one of its abilities that you can then swap in on your other Warframes.

Considering this will guaranteed have one - if not multiple - confirmations tied to it ("This warframe will forever be lost. ARE YOU SURE?!?!" probably)? Yeah, given the other systems they're going to have interacted with up to that point, the idea that it's 'so complex oh goodness only a big brain can understand' is disingenuous. 

dude, seriously, you are highly underestimating begginers. im telling you, from first hand experience helping begginers for multiple months. what seems easy for us, what looks obvious and [IN YOUR FACE] kind of thing, seems alien and nonsensical to most of them.

im telling you, go try help begginers for a while and you will understand this.

[Opyt]

3 hours ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

That's a lie, there are at least 7 suggestion (one is mine)

Now quote the part you disagreed with lol.
My guess is it was a lost in translation.  By feedback, I'm pretty sure he meant response from the team. 😉

[---Swaggi---]

24 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

dude, seriously, you are highly underestimating begginers. im telling you, from first hand experience helping begginers for multiple months. what seems easy for us, what looks obvious and [IN YOUR FACE] kind of thing, seems alien and nonsensical to most of them.

Can confirm that. Some already struggle whats the difference between prime and non-primes and the way to collect them. 😛 

For actually experinced players thats like 2+2=4 but for some newbies its more like "2x+2y+4=5"

[Opyt]

29 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

The system is not hard to understand. A higher MR is not going to provide the user with better reading comprehension.

THAT'S ADORABLE.  You still believe that DE is going to explain the system in game.  [JUST GO TO THE WIKI INTENSIFIES]
 

E:
If liches, amps, and arcanes/magus/pax/exodias are anything to go buy, there's not going to be an explanation for the system.  It's just going to spontaneously exist.  They might explain it once, and only once, in a non-repeatable dialogue scene when you hit rank 3 with the Entrati, but I doubt they'll do the right thing and outline it in the Codex.  Just like they didn't outline it in the Codex for the other things listed.

Using just Liches as an example:
To avoid information overload and "Just go to the wiki"itis, ideally your first lich would take you through a quest called "The Old Blood" that introduces you to all of the related mechanics, and maybe gives you one of each card with only one use on it, other things it would cover: "This is the right requiem, this is the wrong requiem" and "This is the right requiem, but in the wrong order." as well as an explanation of Convert versus Vanquish.  The reward could be a flag on your account, and maybe if they're feeling generous a decoration called "Tainted Kuva" that pulses the different ephemera effects, and the flag would allow larvalings to begin spawning.  On completion do not allow it to be replayed for "free cards", and add the information it explained in a codex entry under the "Training" tab.

Instead, what we have is a system that doesn't explain S#&$ to the player, and leads to questions like "If I convert my lich will I get the weapon?" and "I vanquished my lich but didn't get the weapon.  WHERE IS IT?!"

[Raikh]

I don't think it is about how knowledgable players are at a certain progression level or not.

Warframe is fundamentally a progression game. While MR isn't representative of skill nor knowledge it is used as a progression indicator along which several features and power acquisitions are locked behind. By doing that you give a progressing player a roadmap along they can work towards goals and reward them for their efforts by giving them access to new powerful tools.

So if you place a new powerful endgame system into the game, you have to ask yourself where it fits into that progression ladder. And the real question here is, if its justifiable to put and endgame transformative system like Helminth in the hands of players that don't even have access to a whole bunch of very endgame-y weaponry and thus are unlikely to be even at the stage to own a finished endgame build they want to expand on with such a feature.

The only problem that occurs here with that logic is that MR is factually not a good representation of progress long-term, because most of the Mastery to be acquired is absolutely redundant to reach the highest power level possible. But its still fairly arguable that MR 8 might indeed not be enough to qualify as an endgame equipped player, simply because they don't have access to the tools and the sheer arsenal required to be in that state properly.

Note, endgame here refers to the top levels of power reachable or the means to acquire them, not to any particular kind of content, since Warframe has no real endgame anyway.

[Keyhound]

5 minutes ago, ---Swaggi--- said:

Can confirm that. Some already struggle whats the difference between prime and non-primes and the way to collect them. 😛 

the sad thing is, he is too busy misinterpreting my argument, that he is missing the point im trying to make, warframe is too complex for begginers, and this is not me saying this because "me veteran", but because that's something people say when they give up on the game! there's a reason why begginers just leave, and its this crap here. too much accessible from early on making the game even grinder and more complex than they can handle.

and yeah, the text will tell them, what he is missing is how that will scare them into thinking on what else can delete their frames as well.

this is the type of thing that we, as veterans know, but they dont.

and that's not even the biggest problem! the game has a massive grind from the start, a system that requires to be LITERALLY fed resources, and has a rotation on what can be fed will roadblock begginers. this is a fact. no amount of "but, they can read" will counter that.