Son tokens are too expensive

[Zaebin]

Finding it hard to earn son tokens through capturing wildlife. There are a total of 6 different animals you can get from Son but they will give mastery only after gilding them which costs 10 Son tokens (60 total). I think it takes way too much time and effort for one single token from Son as I am seeing each one cost somewhere between 4 to 6 animal tags. Bundles of 2 or 3 require less tags but rarer ones. Now, even with the pheromones to increase the chance of spawning a rared animal it is still not guaranteed and unlike the Orb Vallis or the Plains of Eidolon, the starting points for animal captures stop spawning after one or two hunts (if there are even two to begin with). I'd suggest lowering the cost of Son tokens or have animals spawn in packs. Son even points out that one of the Vulpaphylas does so but upon spawning there's only one.

[Chewarette]

Yeah, Son Tokens cost are reduced everywhere (ranking up for Entrati or even for grandmother tokens), but not for Gilding which I find weird.

[Jim22]

I've said this before and ill say it again, level a random cat or dog to rank 30 then release for 10 son tokens its not that hard to do.

[FrostedMike]

I found a way to get Son tokens easily (maybe) and I got about 20 tokens in one hour or so with spare tags for the next cycle or two.

I fly with my archwing around the Cambion Drift, the amount of random spawns is higher then it seems. You can use your tranq rifle in archwing and it blips whenever there is something you can catch around (doesn't blip with the dragonfly things). Most spawns are in groups of two or three. I got about 50 tags of just one subspecies from just one run (100 because I had a booster on), about 30 of pretty much every other animal there is with few exceptions which I got about 2-10 tags with a booster.

Some animals seems to be way more rare then they should. Crecent Vulpaphyla is documented as uncommon but I got way less then the Panzer Vulpaphyla which is rare. Both with random encounters and with an echo lure.

[YUNoJump]

23 minutes ago, Jim22 said:

I've said this before and ill say it again, level a random cat or dog to rank 30 then release for 10 son tokens its not that hard to do.

That's still a pretty significant cost and time investment. For one thing, Antigens and Mutagens cost decent amounts of Fishing resources, so you're basically swapping out Tag farming for Fishing. Companion xp is also a dodgy system which doesn't guarantee good returns unless you just leech off of teammates. Additionally, if I'm going to keep one or two of each animal, that means I have to level up at least 8 animals, even more if I want to use Son tokens for anything else.

Overall it might be a decently quick way if you're the sort of person who spends most of their time on Hydron or in Onslaught, but if you play the game normally the time cost isn't going to be better than the intended method.

[FrostedMike]

Delete This post, I pressed "Quote" instead of "Edit".

[AlphaPHENIX]

35 minutes ago, Jim22 said:

I've said this before and ill say it again, level a random cat or dog to rank 30 then release for 10 son tokens its not that hard to do.

You need mutigen and antigen for getting a random cat or dog...which are build with fishing recources...which you give to daugher for her tokens.

It's all an elaborate plan to make you not trade your tags for floofs and I hate it.

[Acersecomic]

Agreed. Son tokens are way to expensive. WAAAAAAAY over priced. Definetly needs a 50% slash cuzz even Grandmama tokens are plentiful compared to Son tokens. Stingy emo kid.

[Fallen77]

If you spend a solid minute thinking about it all, you realise how NOT expensive at all those are.

First, the argument of "omg 60 tokens for all the mastery" is plain wrong, unless you intend on keeping every single animal, which... why would you ? In reality, it only costs 10 per animal you're keeping, all the others are refunded when you free them.

On that topic, it is VERY easy to get a lot of tokens by just making pets and freeing them. And you only need to shoot down weakened animals you come across during bounties.

Finally, if you look closely, you'll see that many token offers are dirt cheap. Yes, you can buy one token for like 2 birds and 4 cats, or you could avoid those and only go for the 3bundle in exchange of 3 white velocipods (2 days in a row at least that I see this exact one), that you can spot super easily by just flying around in between bounty phases.

When you're actually using all of conservation's mechanics to your advantage, getting son token is soooo easy and requires next to no additional time outside bounties.

[Fallen77]

il y a 30 minutes, AlphaPHENIX a dit :

You need mutigen and antigen for getting a random cat or dog...which are build with fishing recources...which you give to daugher for her tokens.

It's all an elaborate plan to make you not trade your tags for floofs and I hate it.

If you're after floofs, you must have done at least a small amount of proper conservation, and so you should have a massiv stockpile of a variety of tokens already, you shouldn't even be impacted by this non-issue. Seriously, I had most of the floofs before I could even buy half the lures, and enough tokens to get nearly all the available offerings.

Also, mutagen and antigen are dirt cheap to make and all components can be obtained during bounties.

I don't see this elaborate plan you're talking about.

[Chewarette]

20 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Also, mutagen and antigen are dirt cheap to make and all components can be obtained during bounties.

We're not playing the same game then, done plenty of bounties (endless, normal, Iso and SP), yet I was still missing one thing for every craft. Mainly fishing stuff.

43 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

If you spend a solid minute thinking about it all, you realise how NOT expensive at all those are.

First, the argument of "omg 60 tokens for all the mastery" is plain wrong, unless you intend on keeping every single animal, which... why would you ? In reality, it only costs 10 per animal you're keeping, all the others are refunded when you free them.

On that topic, it is VERY easy to get a lot of tokens by just making pets and freeing them. And you only need to shoot down weakened animals you come across during bounties.

Finally, if you look closely, you'll see that many token offers are dirt cheap. Yes, you can buy one token for like 2 birds and 4 cats, or you could avoid those and only go for the 3bundle in exchange of 3 white velocipods (2 days in a row at least that I see this exact one), that you can spot super easily by just flying around in between bounty phases.

When you're actually using all of conservation's mechanics to your advantage, getting son token is soooo easy and requires next to no additional time outside bounties.

This is exactly what we're talking about. Extra-convoluted stuff with no point except time-gating rewards tied to the system. Oh yeah you can literally create an excel spreadsheet and check what is the most profitable way to get tokens. You could also ask a theorycrafter to tell you what, when, and why. But why not simplifying this whole system by a good 80% by removing extra-convoluted systems (like Gilding, which is a S#&$ system to begin with) ?

There are way too many useless steps for any single system in Deimos, that makes no sense. You have to find animals. Animals have to be weakened by an infested. You have to capture it. It gives you one tag. Tag you exchange vs Tokens at a totally random ratio. You craft your pet. You level it. You need 10 other tokens to gild it. You level it. Bla, bla, bla, yeah, I probably fell asleep twice just writing that.

Why not "You capture the pet, you level it, congratulations" ? Because it's probably too fast and DE wants you to slog through everything. Grinding was invented for this sole purpose of wait and frustration. Just the same as minerals you can craft by 3/5/20 when you need 100 for anything. Why ? Why not! DE wants you to wait in your orbiter instead of, say, playing the game while it's crafting.

Also yes, the most profitable is probably the 3x Tokens for whatever tags, yeah yeah yeah. But maybe I want to play the game, not connect every day, check Son, get these 3 tokens if they're available, then come the next day to check if it's here again. Who enjoys playing the "Wait for the NPC to refill his stock" game that DE created with Grandmother ? Answer: literally no-one.

[More-L]

They are way too expensive, personally I am ranking and guilding all the useless new pets then trading them back in. Costs 10 to guild and 15 when you sell a guilded pet, so a net gain of 5 token. A way to get mastery and tokens i suppose.

[Rantear]

IIRC his bundle offers seem to be quite cheap, you can find 4-5 tokens for only 2 "rare" captures.
Just gotta keep checking regularly for those.
His 1 and 2 token offers seemed more like a scam.

[Fallen77]

il y a 35 minutes, Chewarette a dit :

We're not playing the same game then, done plenty of bounties (endless, normal, Iso and SP), yet I was still missing one thing for every craft. Mainly fishing stuff.

This is exactly what we're talking about. Extra-convoluted stuff with no point except time-gating rewards tied to the system. Oh yeah you can literally create an excel spreadsheet and check what is the most profitable way to get tokens. You could also ask a theorycrafter to tell you what, when, and why. But why not simplifying this whole system by a good 80% by removing extra-convoluted systems (like Gilding, which is a S#&$ system to begin with) ?

There are way too many useless steps for any single system in Deimos, that makes no sense. You have to find animals. Animals have to be weakened by an infested. You have to capture it. It gives you one tag. Tag you exchange vs Tokens at a totally random ratio. You craft your pet. You level it. You need 10 other tokens to gild it. You level it. Bla, bla, bla, yeah, I probably fell asleep twice just writing that.

Why not "You capture the pet, you level it, congratulations" ? Because it's probably too fast and DE wants you to slog through everything. Grinding was invented for this sole purpose of wait and frustration. Just the same as minerals you can craft by 3/5/20 when you need 100 for anything. Why ? Why not! DE wants you to wait in your orbiter instead of, say, playing the game while it's crafting.

Also yes, the most profitable is probably the 3x Tokens for whatever tags, yeah yeah yeah. But maybe I want to play the game, not connect every day, check Son, get these 3 tokens if they're available, then come the next day to check if it's here again. Who enjoys playing the "Wait for the NPC to refill his stock" game that DE created with Grandmother ? Answer: literally no-one.

I'll give you one thing : in bounties, I'm always breaking all the crates and activating all towers whenever I have some breathing room between phases. So that might grant me more than someone idly waiting for next objectiv to appear/timer to empty. But by doing that, with little fishing overall and buying most of daughter tokens I can, I was able to craft one of each mutagen and antigen. So yeah, we're not playing the same game, I'm optimizing my ressouce farm with the tools at my disposition and in the same time frame.

I'm gonna make the process simpler just for you : does it cost many animal tokens for a single son token ? Unless you have a huge stock, no buy ! Does it cost fewer animal tokens for manier son tokens ? Yes buy !

You're putting it as if it was sooooo complicated, but a child could navigate through it without issue. Just admit that you're blowing it completely out of proportion solely out of spite. You don't need spreadsheets, just a drop of common sense.

And come on, weakened animals are pathetically easy to obtain. Just look around once in a while for infested shooting at something else than a tenno, don't tranq, just nuke the area with whatever you fancy. Press X, boom, you got one or several free tokens and weakened animals ready to be raised. And you just needed to look around while waiting for the bounty's next phase. Then craft mutagens and stuff like you've done for anything else in the game for years, go build your zaw animal like you've done in the game for years, and just have it equipped. Go do your usual activities, don't even try to powerfarm them on hydron, just play whatever public matches you need, it'll get there. When it's 30, get 10 free son token, without even having to leave bounty nor pulling out a tranq rifle.

 

Also you're mixing everything up. Rant about one thing at a time please. I was saying that son token are MUCH easier to obtain than what those that refuse to touch the system beyond the absolute minimum are saying. Gilding and mineral crafting are completely unrelated issues.

Now, token system overall, "convoluted" as you call it. Yes, it's more convoluted than previous OW syndicate systems, but it has its undeniable advantages. Mainly, as you should know, the ability to stockpile them from any activity beyond the daily cap, that's huge.

And yes it's technically about waiting for a vendor to refill his random inventory, but if you don't try to get everything as soon as possible, you'll naturally accumulate over time more of each kind of token than you'll ever need, assuming you're using all the tools at your disposal. And no you don't need to log on every day, merely checking the vendors before and after doing a couple bounties is enough to refresh part of their offers. I get why you don't like it, imo it's partly for the wrong reasons I cited, and partly a pure matter of taste that you are rightfully entitled to.

But not everyone dislike this system, you and those motivated enough to complain about it on the forum do. Big nuance.

Now, for gilding and mineral crafting, that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I mostly agree with you on those, I don't see much reason for those systems. At least making the mineral crafting last 10 seconds instead of a minute would make more sense.

[Emolition]

3 hours ago, Jim22 said:

I've said this before and ill say it again, level a random cat or dog to rank 30 then release for 10 son tokens its not that hard to do.

strange i get 15 tokens releasing them and it cost 10 to gild so allways get 5 extra back when i released them after i got my mastery.

[(NSW)Reason]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

We're not playing the same game then, done plenty of bounties (endless, normal, Iso and SP), yet I was still missing one thing for every craft. Mainly fishing stuff.

 

I'm not disagreeing about the Gilding, but you need to try Requiem towers. Take vauban, activate the towers, throw down a vortex, and just pump operator shots into the vortex. A couple of runs of those and you'll have everything you need for fishing and mining. You can get tons of Necrathene and other rare fish and minerals in those things, along with tons of Father token stuff. The only thing father token materials those towers don't give to you is the Vome/Fass residues, which are easy enough to farm. The internet has maps for random spawn routes, and one run can take like 5 minutes around all of Deimos. If you're lucky, you can buy out Otak, Daughter, and Father inventories in 2 runs. 3 runs will definitely let you buy out the inventory. 

edit: if you do this, you won't have any problems securing mats to recycle pets for son tokens like the guy above described.

[0_The_F00l]

The gild cost maybe , the grandma oddities cost most definitely.

 

but overall i think son token to standing ratio is fair - its just the RNG based token conversion that is poor.

[Jim22]

6 hours ago, Emolition said:

strange i get 15 tokens releasing them and it cost 10 to gild so allways get 5 extra back when i released them after i got my mastery.

the normal predasites and Vulpes give 10 token and the rare predasites and Vulpes give 15 tokens.

[Emolition]

10 hours ago, Jim22 said:

the normal predasites and Vulpes give 10 token and the rare predasites and Vulpes give 15 tokens.

Hmmm is sly vulpes rare then? It's like the only vulpes I catched and  turned it in yesterday after getting my mastery for 15.

[AlphaPHENIX]

23 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

If you're after floofs, you must have done at least a small amount of proper conservation, and so you should have a massiv stockpile of a variety of tokens already, you shouldn't even be impacted by this non-issue. Seriously, I had most of the floofs before I could even buy half the lures, and enough tokens to get nearly all the available offerings.

Also, mutagen and antigen are dirt cheap to make and all components can be obtained during bounties.

I don't see this elaborate plan you're talking about.

You just assume everyone plays the same way.

You are not only wrong, you are statistically incorrect.

[Fallen77]

il y a 41 minutes, AlphaPHENIX a dit :

You just assume everyone plays the same way.

You are not only wrong, you are statistically incorrect.

Ok, so when you were hunting for floofs, I suppose you always got exactly all 5 animals of each type without any duplicate then right ? Otherwise how would you explain not ending up with a huge stock of dups at the end of it all ? Due to that one variety of bird or whatever refusing to pop as it is statisticaly VERY likely to happen ? Do you just completely abort a hunt once you see that's it's not the exact animal you need ? Even though you are seconds away from caping it at this point and while aware that you will need many tags anyway for other things. I don't explain it.

And yes, maybe we don't play the same way, maybe I have a superior intellect that pushes me to break the crates I walk by during bounty, crates that we all know drop mining and fishing ressources. So sure if you're always doing the absolute bare minimum during bounties, you will have to go fishing for like 15 minutes once in a while in order to craft a lifetime worth of mutagen.

Point is, no, there is no greater plan to stop you from getting floofs. Heck, accumulating tags is the easiest it's ever been in Deimos. 

Now, of course I have to assume some things with what little you are saying. Either go in details or refrain from making rebutals without any context. I'm legit curious how someone that is (suposedly since you (suposedly) like floofs) into conservation could have anything to say about this version of it.

[(PSN)BuzzZaw82]

As to to actual OP's remark...then when one compares the amount of time, the amount of tags you get with the amount of various animals needed...then compare and look at Mining and Fishing...yea, it's way too much expensive.

Compare to the Hunting in The Plains and Iceland as we call it...what you have to do now to get the Tokens is serious spend some time and effort to get the correct amount and type of Animals, possibly have a Resource booster on, have a degree of Luck involved and hope enemies don't come out and either scare or hurt the Animal you're trying to track....and again it's compared to what you get in the same period of time Fishing and Mining then buying Tokens. It's not balanced at all....just our take.

[(XBOX)TwinStripeUK]

On 2020-09-14 at 11:06 AM, Jim22 said:

I've said this before and ill say it again, level a random cat or dog to rank 30 then release for 10 son tokens its not that hard to do.

This. It's much quicker (and consumes fewer resources in total than you'll spend on trading stuff in).

Plus, if you get a rare one, it's 15 tokens instead...

(There was also a bug that let you 'free' them before they were levelled, not too sure if they patched that yet)

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

On 2020-09-14 at 5:00 AM, Zaebin said:

Finding it hard to earn son tokens through capturing wildlife. There are a total of 6 different animals you can get from Son but they will give mastery only after gilding them which costs 10 Son tokens (60 total). I think it takes way too much time and effort for one single token from Son as I am seeing each one cost somewhere between 4 to 6 animal tags. Bundles of 2 or 3 require less tags but rarer ones. Now, even with the pheromones to increase the chance of spawning a rared animal it is still not guaranteed and unlike the Orb Vallis or the Plains of Eidolon, the starting points for animal captures stop spawning after one or two hunts (if there are even two to begin with). I'd suggest lowering the cost of Son tokens or have animals spawn in packs. Son even points out that one of the Vulpaphylas does so but upon spawning there's only one.

make a random animal an give it to son an you get 10 tokens
max the animal out an he gives you 15 tokens for it

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

11 hours ago, (XB1)TwinStripeUK said:

This. It's much quicker (and consumes fewer resources in total than you'll spend on trading stuff in).

Plus, if you get a rare one, it's 15 tokens instead...

(There was also a bug that let you 'free' them before they were levelled, not too sure if they patched that yet)

its 10 for any unleveled
15 for maxed
20 for gilded