Vitrica Prime status

[PhiThagRaid]

If my understanding of the lore is correct, the prime frames and weapons are the gear used during the reign of the Orokin. Following that simple logic, would the Vitrica be considered a prime weapon?

Given its use in lore, though, it might not be strictly seen as a weapon, but instead only a tool and thus not a Prime.

Thoughts?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

It's an Orokin weapon like Paracesis but since they don't have a garbage version so they don't get the prime seal

[VoidArkhangel]

Prime is referred to the first version of something, Nekros Prime means the first version or the original version of Nekros, saying that we can assume that only the equipment that was modifided by the tenno have a prime version.

But now that I think of it, the Euphona and the Reaper have not a tenno version yet they are prime weapons so maybe the weapons that are prime are those forged and used exclusively by the tenno back on the old war. The Paracesis and Vitrica were used by orokin soldiers (maybe) but if I remember correclty only two people had those weapons being Ballas and Nihil respectively.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the Orokin had their own custom weapons as well as primes:

- Skiajati was made specifically for Excalibur Umbra, from Umbra's own flesh.

- Paracesis was made by Ballas, specifically for use against sentients and possibly to use against Natah, Erra and Hunhow. Paracesis is a brand new weapon technically, but blades like this probably existed during the empire as well.

- Vitrica was made to glass people, the fact that it's also a sword is probably intended as symbolism (the "Sword of Justice").

there are also outliers like Euphona, Dakra and Reaper which haven't been reverse-engineered and mass-produced with cheaper materials for the Tenno. Anku and Pyrana could, in some ways, be considered vanilla versions of Reaper and Euphona Primes, as they share many similarities, but that's not necessarily true either.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

If my understanding of the lore is correct, the prime frames and weapons are the gear used during the reign of the Orokin. Following that simple logic, would the Vitrica be considered a prime weapon?

Given its use in lore, though, it might not be strictly seen as a weapon, but instead only a tool and thus not a Prime.

Thoughts?

Prime Weapons are the original version of the weapons the Tenno use today. Orvius, Paracesis and the Vitrica are Orokin weapons. They don't have "low cost" versions, because the Tenno never used them.

The Orvius were the standard Dax glaive, and the Paracesis is Ballas sword. The Vitrica is Nihil's weapon. These weapons don't have standard versions. They're unique or never used by the Tenno

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

2 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

If my understanding of the lore is correct, the prime frames and weapons are the gear used during the reign of the Orokin. Following that simple logic, would the Vitrica be considered a prime weapon?

Given its use in lore, though, it might not be strictly seen as a weapon, but instead only a tool and thus not a Prime.

Thoughts?

Basically they count as non prime orokin relics, things that fall into this category are: orvius, paraceisis, skiajati, Excalibur umbra, kuva scepter, vitrica, Trumna, sepulcrum, mausolon, cortège, and the Necramechs. These are all considered orokin artifacts rather than prime versions. There are others but most of them are just trinkets armors, fashion items or decorations.

[GrayArchon]

3 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Prime is referred to the first version of something, Nekros Prime means the first version or the original version of Nekros, saying that we can assume that only the equipment that was modifided by the tenno have a prime version.

This is not necessarily correct. Nekros Prime dates from the Orokin era but there is no confirmation that he was the first Nekros or that vanilla Nekros and Irkalla Nekros did not also exist during that time.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 15 horas, GrayArchon dijo:

This is not necessarily correct. Nekros Prime dates from the Orokin era but there is no confirmation that he was the first Nekros or that vanilla Nekros and Irkalla Nekros did not also exist during that time.

I meant the first version produced in mass of him not the first frame 

[elmetnuter]

Prime warframe and weapons were the original mass produced items for the Orokin warfare, they are not the single original prototype built by their respective Orokin engineer. Normal Warframes and weapons are the same that have been remade by the grineers and corpus. 

Nobody has access to the original prototypes.

[NightmareT12]

57 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

I meant the first version produced in mass of him not the first frame 

That is, indeed, correct.

Vitrica and Paracesis aren't Primes because, unlike the Prime stuff:

a) They aren't Tenno weapons.

b) They aren't mass produced weapons -- they're personal belongings to Nihil and Ballas, respectively.

So they're Orokin made and can be considered therefore superior weaponry, but they aren't technically Primes in the same sense as Tenno weaponry :)

[GrayArchon]

1 hour ago, VoidArkhangel said:

I meant the first version produced in mass of him not the first frame 

1 hour ago, elmetnuter said:

Prime warframe and weapons were the original mass produced items for the Orokin warfare, they are not the single original prototype built by their respective Orokin engineer.

Still not confirmed as canon, still speculation. There is no official word on the actual status of Prime gear, other than it "represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era" (according to https://www.warframe.com/prime-access-faq). There is no indication that Prime gear is the first version, the mass-produced version, or the only version of weapons and warframes during the Orokin Era.

1 hour ago, elmetnuter said:

Normal Warframes and weapons are the same that have been remade by the grineers and corpus.

And this is just wholly incorrect. Grineer and Corpus are not capable of unlocking any secrets of the warframes, let alone remake them. Alad V says in The Second Dream: "I've seen inside a Tenno, and what I found didn't make sense." Captain Vor says in Operation: Arid Fear: "Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power. Our warframe engineers gesture wildly about nanotechnology, how reactive dissolution hides the answers."

[elmetnuter]

51 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Still not confirmed as canon, still speculation. There is no official word on the actual status of Prime gear, other than it "represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era" (according to https://www.warframe.com/prime-access-faq). There is no indication that Prime gear is the first version, the mass-produced version, or the only version of weapons and warframes during the Orokin Era.

And this is just wholly incorrect. Grineer and Corpus are not capable of unlocking any secrets of the warframes, let alone remake them. Alad V says in The Second Dream: "I've seen inside a Tenno, and what I found didn't make sense." Captain Vor says in Operation: Arid Fear: "Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power. Our warframe engineers gesture wildly about nanotechnology, how reactive dissolution hides the answers."

How are we getting inferior version of prime Warframe from corpus and grineers then? Even if they don't understand how it works, they still hold a recipe of sort. Is it the distinction you are making? For example, we get Trinity from the corpus because they use part of the technology to build Ambulas. Somehow they understand part of the Orokin tech.

[Fl_3]

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

Captain Vor says in Operation: Arid Fear: "Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power. Our warframe engineers gesture wildly about nanotechnology, how reactive dissolution hides the answers."

But, exactly where are newer players to Warframe supposed to hear that line? Digital Extremes refuses to rerun any of the historical events for no reason what so ever other than they apparently don't want to. They ran a poll on which events people would like to see again with Gravidus coming top. This was what? a couple of years ago now? It'll never happen.

All the quests from the lore events are still in the game, but because they can be played at the players discretion with no hints at how they fit within the games timeline they serve no purpose apart from being something to do. Play once get the reward and your done with them.

Bring back the old events that go with those quests, Give the players access to the them, let them sink their teeth into lore that actually matters to the game and not some.

Recently the lore of Warframe has come to mean nothing. Heart of Deimos proves this with the introduction of the Heart itself and the questions it asks.

Why is there no mention of this heart in the lore when it talks about Warframes and the Void energy that gives them their power? Why do we need energy pizzas when the heart is pumping its energy directly into us? Why, when telling Hunhow about the weakness of the Tenno didn't Ballas tell of the heart? Are you telling me that the designer of the Warframes didn't know where they get their power from? Was he hiding it? Why would he? He's telling the sentients how to destroy the Tenno! Or, is the heart the source of power for the whole rotten Orokin Empire? making it even more of a weakness that if it was just the source of power for the frames.

Was Deimos hidden safely in the void like Lua? and some malfunction brought it back into real space when the heart failed? If so. why didn't it cause wider effects across the system? If the heart is so important to Warframes why isn't there a back up? Why, when the uprising started didn't the Entrati just switch the heart off stopping the Warframes dead in their tracks, because without the heart, the Tenno can't even transfer out of their frames (as seen in Heart of Deimos) even though we create our own transference signal and don't need the Orokin machines to help us anymore ( as stated by the operator in The War Within)

You can't say the heart can't be stopped because that's what the quest is all about isn't it? Restarting the heart?

Recent additions to the Lore of the game add nothing because it's a badly written mess. There is no mention of the Heart before HoD because it didn't exist in the lore of the game until it was just invented without rhyme or reason for the new update.

There may have been a script once, a book of lore that was followed by the writers of Warframe, but, I don't believe it any longer.

Warframe has devolved into a mass of random game chunks clumsily thrown together in the hope that they work. Parts that do are improved and bug fixed. parts that don't are left to rot but never removed from the game.

I wish that DE would employ writers who actually cared about the Lore, because the current crop obviously don't.

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

But, exactly where are newer players to Warframe supposed to hear that line? Digital Extremes refuses to rerun any of the historical events for no reason what so ever other than they apparently don't want to. They ran a poll on which events people would like to see again with Gravidus coming top. This was what? a couple of years ago now? It'll never happen.

All the quests from the lore events are still in the game, but because they can be played at the players discretion with no hints at how they fit within the games timeline they serve no purpose apart from being something to do. Play once get the reward and your done with them.

Bring back the old events that go with those quests, Give the players access to the them, let them sink their teeth into lore that actually matters to the game and not some.

Recently the lore of Warframe has come to mean nothing. Heart of Deimos proves this with the introduction of the Heart itself and the questions it asks.

Why is there no mention of this heart in the lore when it talks about Warframes and the Void energy that gives them their power? Why do we need energy pizzas when the heart is pumping its energy directly into us? Why, when telling Hunhow about the weakness of the Tenno didn't Ballas tell of the heart? Are you telling me that the designer of the Warframes didn't know where they get their power from? Was he hiding it? Why would he? He's telling the sentients how to destroy the Tenno! Or, is the heart the source of power for the whole rotten Orokin Empire? making it even more of a weakness that if it was just the source of power for the frames.

Was Deimos hidden safely in the void like Lua? and some malfunction brought it back into real space when the heart failed? If so. why didn't it cause wider effects across the system? If the heart is so important to Warframes why isn't there a back up? Why, when the uprising started didn't the Entrati just switch the heart off stopping the Warframes dead in their tracks, because without the heart, the Tenno can't even transfer out of their frames (as seen in Heart of Deimos) even though we create our own transference signal and don't need the Orokin machines to help us anymore ( as stated by the operator in The War Within)

You can't say the heart can't be stopped because that's what the quest is all about isn't it? Restarting the heart?

Recent additions to the Lore of the game add nothing because it's a badly written mess. There is no mention of the Heart before HoD because it didn't exist in the lore of the game until it was just invented without rhyme or reason for the new update.

There may have been a script once, a book of lore that was followed by the writers of Warframe, but, I don't believe it any longer.

Warframe has devolved into a mass of random game chunks clumsily thrown together in the hope that they work. Parts that do are improved and bug fixed. parts that don't are left to rot but never removed from the game.

I wish that DE would employ writers who actually cared about the Lore, because the current crop obviously don't.

It doesn’t make sense because most people don’t play it all in order and on top of that not everything is made to fit directly into the main story.

 

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

Why is there no mention of this heart in the lore when it talks about Warframes and the Void energy that gives them their power? Why do we need energy pizzas when the heart is pumping its energy directly into us?

It doesn’t go be us energy it just allows void powered technology( transference bolts) to function.

 

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

Why, when telling Hunhow about the weakness of the Tenno didn't Ballas tell of the heart? Are you telling me that the designer of the Warframes didn't know where they get their power from? Was he hiding it? Why would he? He's telling the sentients how to destroy the Tenno! Or, is the heart the source of power for the whole rotten Orokin Empire? making it even more of a weakness that if it was just the source of power for the frames.

It is the power source for any and all void powered technology. So if he told them about it he’d be screwed too along with many other things so there was no point. He wasn’t really trying to squad wipe the whole system.

 

1 hour ago, Fl_3 said:

Was Deimos hidden safely in the void like Lua? and some malfunction brought it back into real space when the heart failed? If so. why didn't it cause wider effects across the system? If the heart is so important to Warframes why isn't there a back up? Why, when the uprising started didn't the Entrati just switch the heart off stopping the Warframes dead in their tracks, because without the heart, the Tenno can't even transfer out of their frames

No Deimos would now just be an already existing planet. It only seems that way because we were here before hand. Other wise it would have always existed. Also it probably did cause effects but because most people don’t know about it it probably got chocked up to a void storm malfunction and not something that serious since most people don’t actually know about the heart. There isn’t a back up for the same reason there aren’t back up resovoirs. The orokin are rather good at hiding and fortifying important stuff so they had no real need to make copies and any damages can be repaired with the all powerful Omni tools. The entrati never left Deimos and by the fact that they are all alive other than alberecht who’d died naturally we never attacked them. Also the Heart isn’t something that can be flicked on and off like a lightbulb, it literally is the power grid for 85% of the system. Not to mention it’s and automatic device. Most of the current entrati struggle to turn it back on. And judgmg by orokin lifetimes they’ve probably been there since the orokin era. They simply don’t have either the skills or the drive to turn it off and on at will. Tenno can transfer and use thier powers outside of the warframe s without the heart as they have thier own void connection.

[GrayArchon]

7 hours ago, elmetnuter said:

How are we getting inferior version of prime Warframe from corpus and grineers then? Even if they don't understand how it works, they still hold a recipe of sort.

They have the warframes and some of them have repurposed parts of the frames for their own ends, but they still can't make warframes themselves. For example, Sargas Ruk drops Ember parts. He's an artefact hunter, so it's conceivable that he unearthed Ember's cryo pod, and he's got fire weaponry, so he probably stripped the flame-enhancing tech from the frame and put it in his armour. When you defeat him, you take it back, and use it to recreate Ember. But Sargas doesn't have an Ember running around throwing fireballs for him. You said "Normal Warframes and weapons are the same that have been remade by the grineers and corpus" which is not the same as "For example, we get Trinity from the corpus because they use part of the technology to build Ambulas. Somehow they understand part of the Orokin tech."

6 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

But, exactly where are newer players to Warframe supposed to hear that line? Digital Extremes refuses to rerun any of the historical events for no reason what so ever other than they apparently don't want to. They ran a poll on which events people would like to see again with Gravidus coming top. This was what? a couple of years ago now? It'll never happen.

Are you trying to say that parts of the lore aren't canon if players don't experience them firsthand? There are so many elements of Warframe's story that are not part of the current game, such as the webcomics, the print comics, the quest teaser trailers, the Prime Warframe cinematic trailers, the Fortuna Discord ARG (which brought a wealth of information about the inhabitants of Fortuna), and the Cephalon Cordylon blog posts, to say nothing of content no longer in the game like past events, Tactical Alerts, and removed content like the Trials. Just because you're not able to see them doesn't mean they don't exist. It's analogous to not considering Agents of SHIELD part of the MCU canon because you didn't want to pay for a Netflix subscription to watch it.

6 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Bring back the old events that go with those quests, Give the players access to the them, let them sink their teeth into lore that actually matters to the game and not some.

You are far from the only person saying this. Hell, I'm on your side here. But that's kind of not what was being discussed in the thread, so it's sort of derailing.

6 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Why is there no mention of this heart in the lore when it talks about Warframes and the Void energy that gives them their power?

Nothing is relevant, until it is.

6 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Why do we need energy pizzas when the heart is pumping its energy directly into us?

Because energy as a video game mechanic and energy as a real concept are different things, in the same sense that "health" in real life is not represented by hit points. Not everything translates 1:1 into actual tangible things.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Why, when telling Hunhow about the weakness of the Tenno didn't Ballas tell of the heart?

You answered your own question a few lines down:

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Or, is the heart the source of power for the whole rotten Orokin Empire?

This is it. Mother says during the Heart of Deimos quest: "It pumps the arteries of 'the here' and the Void." Loid says: "The Solar Rails, the Tenno… we all depend on the Heart to keep the wall open to the other side. If the Heart stops, everything goes with it." All Void technology depends on the Heart, not just the Tenno. Ballas, despite his hatred of the Orokin, would likely not want to live in a world where all his technology stops working (as well as his only defence against the Sentients).

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Was Deimos hidden safely in the void like Lua? and some malfunction brought it back into real space when the heart failed?

Yes. Loid says at the start of the quest: "The Infestation has compromised the very Heart itself. We have been forced to re-phase into Martian—" before he gets interrupted. They came back into real-space to request assistance in saving the Heart.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

If so. why didn't it cause wider effects across the system?

I don't know what you mean by this. Presumably, in the short time where the Heart was dead, Void portals and Solar Rails stopped working all across the System. I'd like to hear some chatter about this event over the radio scanner, but it's ultimately of little consequence since it got fixed.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

If the heart is so important to Warframes why isn't there a back up?

The Entrati built the Heart and they were the only ones who knew how to maintain it (Mother says "only that idiot knows how to fix it… the man I used to call my husband"). They likely enjoyed having a position of singular importance in the Empire and refused to create more. In the Deadlock Protocol quest, Parvos Granum says "The Entrati have kept their secrets long enough." Additionally, given that the Heart appears to fill a metaphysical role, it might be impossible to create another one.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Why, when the uprising started didn't the Entrati just switch the heart off stopping the Warframes dead in their tracks

Asked and answered. They wouldn't shut off all Void technology across the System. Also, much of the eradication of the Orokin took place in a single moment – the slaughter at the Terminus. By the time the Entrati knew what had happened, most of the damage was likely done.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

because without the heart, the Tenno can't even transfer out of their frames (as seen in Heart of Deimos) even though we create our own transference signal and don't need the Orokin machines to help us anymore ( as stated by the operator in The War Within)

Two different things. Transference signals are used to possess and control other objects, as the Tenno control the warframes, but its use is not exclusive to the Tenno and is not necessarily enabled by the Void. The Tenno's powers, however, independent of their use of the warframes, is Void-based and thus dependent on the Heart. When the Tenno outgrow their dependence on Orokin devices to channel their Transference during The War Within, this still leaves them using Void powers that flow from the Heart.

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

You can't say the heart can't be stopped because that's what the quest is all about isn't it? Restarting the heart?

No one is saying that?

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

There may have been a script once, a book of lore that was followed by the writers of Warframe, but, I don't believe it any longer.

The lore used to be written entirely by [DE]Steve, who also has many other roles in the development team. Now they have two more writers, Cam Rogers and Ryan Mole.

DE has some issues with lore, sure, and you've pointed out that the transient nature of events can mean things get missed, but a lot of your questions in this comment could have been answered by paying more attention to the quest dialogue. Introducing new characters and objects isn't bad narrative design; it's a necessary component of iterating a story that's been ongoing for seven years.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

From my understanding a primed weapon or warframe is just an Orokin upgraded version that is superior to the original. Since the base versions did exist back in the olden days.

[Fl_3]

Some interesting answers to my post thankyou, but also, because of the nature of some of those answers a lot more questions.

Digital Extremes seems to have lost the ability to tell a consistent story in my opinion. 

The lore from the old game should be playable in the current game because apart from digging around the internet and wiki there is no way to find this out apart from people posting contradicting information based around their own interpretation of what they themselves believe to be the truth.

I have my Lore based on my interpretation of what I have read just as others have theirs because it's inconsistent. (I totally missed the part where Loid confirmed that Deimos was hidden in the void!)

As for the original question asked in this thread.

Primes are considered to be Orokin artefacts, and the Vitrica is such, as it was owned by an Orokin Survivor. Personally, I'd class it as a Prime Weapon.

On a side note, I wouldn't say the same of the Paracesis, as this appears to be something that Ballas has thought up during his imprisonment. The way he connects it piece by piece in Chimera Prologue suggests to me that he has devised it in secret and kept the parts separate to hide it from his captors, only revealing it when alone and in the presence of a Tenno. Because of this I don't class it as an artefact, but a new weapon created using Sentient not Orokin technology.

[VoidArkhangel]

En 2/11/2020 a las 14:25, GrayArchon dijo:

Still not confirmed as canon, still speculation. There is no official word on the actual status of Prime gear, other than it "represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era" (according to https://www.warframe.com/prime-access-faq). There is no indication that Prime gear is the first version, the mass-produced version, or the only version of weapons and warframes during the Orokin Era.

Canon: 

Spoiler

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

- Orokin 'Warframe' Archives (Excalibur Prime Ingame description)

No, the prime frames were not the only ones that existed during the end of the Orokin Era since the tenno started to create their own gear and as I said the prime gear is the gear that was used by the Tenno during the end of this era so here is the awnser:

The prime gear is the mass-produced gear for the tenno exclusively during the Old War. We can see this in the previous Excalibur description, in The Sacrifice quest where Ballas tells us the frames that we know were those who saved the Empire, in the Heart of Deimos quest where Villcor tells us that the Necramechs were the armament used by the Orokin before the warframes and the Erra cinematic where we can see the railjacks and primed frames in action for a cople of seconds in the battle of Lua.

There were indeed weapons for common soldiers like the Quellor, Zundi and Pennant wich were given to the Railjack crews, the Orvius wich was wielded by the Dax, the "Orokin Grakata" wielded by the "Orokin Grineer" we see in the cinematic intro and so on but as I said these weapons were made for common soldiers while the prime weapons were made exclusively for the Tenno. So indeed, the prime gear were the mass-produced for the tenno, the only frame version during the old war, and (most likely) the first version of the tenno arsenal.

hace 16 horas, xcrimsonlegendx dijo:

From my understanding a primed weapon or warframe is just an Orokin upgraded version that is superior to the original. Since the base versions did exist back in the olden days.

The normal versions of frames and weapons were those modifided by the Tenno based on the Orokin ones just by the end of the Old war but since they lost the knoledge of the Orokin tech it resulted on weaker versions.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

52 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

The normal versions of frames and weapons were those modifided by the Tenno based on the Orokin ones just by the end of the Old war but since they lost the knoledge of the Orokin tech it resulted on weaker versions.

The leverian entries and most of the warframe quests imply that the weaker versions existed in Orokin times.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

The leverian entries and most of the warframe quests imply that the weaker versions existed in Orokin times.

Cause they did, the vitruvian even shows the regular Excalibur when Ballas is talking about the warframe creation

[GrayArchon]

5 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

The prime gear is the mass-produced gear for the tenno exclusively during the Old War.

Again, you are drawing too broad conclusions. Just because Prime gear was used by some Tenno during the Old War does not mean that it was used by all Tenno. Prime warframes are indeed depicted in the Erra cinematic, as well as the What Remains webcomic, which takes place during the Orokin Era. However, What Remains also shows non-Prime Octavia, which is proof that not all warframes in service to the Orokin were Prime warframes. The other examples you mentioned are nonconclusive: Ballas and Vilcor (Father) both mention the warframes in action during the Old War, but neither refers precisely to Prime warframes; in fact, as @(XB1)C11H22O11 mentioned, Ballas' Vitruvian from The Sacrifice shows a non-Prime Excalibur. And the Excalibur Prime Codex entry you quote also shows up in the non-Prime Excalibur Codex entry too. And, as @xcrimsonlegendx says, the Leverian exhibits mostly display warframes in action during the Old War and Orokin Era (with exceptions for Grendel and Nezha), with parts of the non-Prime warframes that Drusus insists are from the specific events in question (of course, he could be incorrect, since he is a slightly unreliable narrator).

5 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

So indeed, the prime gear were the mass-produced for the tenno, the only frame version during the old war

And, of course, most of the deluxe skins appear to also have been in use during the Old War, as shown by Feyarch Oberon, Knave Loki, and Orphid Saryn appearing as Spectres in the Silver Grove quest.

[SneakyErvin]

Primes are the first massproduced Tenno weapons/frames/sentinels. Paracecis, Vitrica, Orvius and so on are unique weapons that were never massproduced or intended to be used by the Tenno at all. And the normal versions are equipment built by the tenno through reverse engineering the few leftover primes they had access to during their uprising/betrayal at the very end of the Orokin era.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 14 horas, GrayArchon dijo:

Again, you are drawing too broad conclusions. Just because Prime gear was used by some Tenno during the Old War does not mean that it was used by all Tenno.

The Orokin built their society around the art, technology and architecture, as we know almost every Orokin thing is too fancy and technologically superior so why they would create the normal frames ? The Tenno (as far as I know) were seen as demons so I don't think that the Orokin gave any sort of blueprint or technology to develop any weapon at first so the Tenno came on the middle of the Old War and we can assume that they didn't had the tech to create things until they either gained the Orokin trust or betrayed them and we can assume both options occur in the end of the Old War, how I came to the conclussion of the Tenno appearing mid-war? The Orokin already started the war with the sentients before the mass-production of the warframes and they were losing, that's how the infestation were created, so when they mass-produced warframes they won every single battle against the sentients in a cosmic comeback by the Orokin the war ended there since the following was kind of a civil war with nukes.

hace 15 horas, GrayArchon dijo:

However, What Remains also shows non-Prime Octavia

This comic got me confused since it says nothing but how Suda became a cephalon, it doesn't tells where it is, doesn't tell when this happened so this could easily be at the end of the war.

hace 15 horas, GrayArchon dijo:

And the Excalibur Prime Codex entry you quote also shows up in the non-Prime Excalibur Codex entry too.

I see this as a game design decision since the description of the non-prime Excalibur is "A perfect balance of mobility and offense, Excalibur is the ideal Warframe for new players." while the codex displays the prime description, maybe DE wanted this way since the prime version will be no longer available.

hace 15 horas, GrayArchon dijo:

And, of course, most of the deluxe skins appear to also have been in use during the Old War, as shown by Feyarch Oberon, Knave Loki, and Orphid Saryn appearing as Spectres in the Silver Grove quest.

This is not necessarily correct, these three are guardians of the silver grove of some sort and they are spectres so their skins could be their true form a form created by the grove.

hace 20 horas, xcrimsonlegendx dijo:

The leverian entries and most of the warframe quests imply that the weaker versions existed in Orokin times.

Now this is something interesting and seeing this I have another question: Why the Stalker doesn't have any prime accesories? The Stalker seems to miss the Orokin but he have no Orokin artifact nor technology so why is that?

The only thing I can came to is that the non-prime versions of the frames where developed by the Orokin as test subjects, the Leverian tells us that some frames models were lost with their og models cuz they failed in battle, I think that the Orokin didn't want to waste resources on such an idea so they created the weaker versions and gave them missions, those strong enough to complete the missions would be awarded with the Orokin treatment.

So yeah, the og warframes could be the non-prime versions and this warframes were tested in the battleground to see if they were what the empire needed, the ones that succeded became the prime frames we know today that helped to almost erradicate the sentients. After the end of the war and the fall of the Orokin empire, the Orokin scientists and weapon designers died or disappeared so the Tenno (betwee other reasons too) started to use the non-prime versions and created the Tenno variants, for the same reason we can assume that the Stalker couldn't get any prime gear because there were nothing left.

[(PSN)soldatoj57]

On 2020-11-01 at 4:54 PM, PhiThagRaid said:

If my understanding of the lore is correct, the prime frames and weapons are the gear used during the reign of the Orokin. Following that simple logic, would the Vitrica be considered a prime weapon?

Given its use in lore, though, it might not be strictly seen as a weapon, but instead only a tool and thus not a Prime.

Thoughts?

Maybe a little spoiler warning ?  grrrrr

[GrayArchon]

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

as we know almost every Orokin thing is too fancy and technologically superior so why they would create the normal frames ?

The people creating the warframes at first were Archimedians like Silvana ("Now I build these vile weapons called ‘warframes’ all for one purpose: death."). Ballas and the Orokin oversaw the process. My theory, which is not stated by canon but does fit within its bounds, is that the Prime warframes were elite ceremonial units for positions such as bodyguards to the Orokin, guarding Lua, and other high-profile roles, and that the vanilla warframes were just standard Tenno soldiers. When fighting the Sentients, all Tenno – Prime, standard, deluxe, and other – fought alongside each other as needed. Most of the warframes we find during quests are not Prime warframes because they were lost while doing things Prime warframes wouldn't necessarily be doing – none of the warframes uncovered in quests were protecting Orokin people or facilities, with the possible exception of Gara.

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

The Tenno (as far as I know) were seen as demons so I don't think that the Orokin gave any sort of blueprint or technology to develop any weapon at first

The Orokin did regard the Tenno as demons (none more so than Ballas), but they were also the core of the Orokin's war against the Sentients. Many weapon and cosmetic item descriptions reference Tenno engineers, weaponsmiths, assassins, and such, and the Lotus in the Second Dream says that Naramon, Madurai, et al are schools founded by the Tenno. They clearly had a distinct culture and logistical setup.

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

so the Tenno came on the middle of the Old War and we can assume that they didn't had the tech to create things until they either gained the Orokin trust or betrayed them and we can assume both options occur in the end of the Old War

We have virtually no information on the time scale of the Old War or the chronology of events, especially pre-Tenno. The war could have lasted a few years or a few centuries. The Tenno could have come at the beginning or the end. We can come up with reasons for one possibility being more likely than another, but it's really no use.

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

how I came to the conclussion of the Tenno appearing mid-war? The Orokin already started the war with the sentients before the mass-production of the warframes and they were losing, that's how the infestation were created, so when they mass-produced warframes they won every single battle against the sentients in a cosmic comeback by the Orokin

All true except for two things: First, the Infestation was not necessarily created specifically to fight the Sentients. It's possible that it was developed earlier for different purposes and that they revisited their old invention for a new purpose. It's just not clear (and it doesn't totally matter, in my opinion). Second, the warframes did not win every battle against the Sentients. They turned the tide, sure, but they didn't steamroll them from the get-go. The What Remains comic shows a Mag Prime warframe getting destroyed in space. Mirage was lost in a battle with the Sentients. The assault depicted in the Mag Prime Codex entry ends ambiguously, but it certainly doesn't seem to be going their way.

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

This comic got me confused since it says nothing but how Suda became a cephalon, it doesn't tells where it is, doesn't tell when this happened so this could easily be at the end of the war.

It's certainly the Orokin Empire during the Old War. Not sure what more you need to know about it than that. As I said, it depicts a non-Prime warframe serving the Orokin, which was the point I was trying to make.

On 2020-11-04 at 10:25 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

I see this as a game design decision since the description of the non-prime Excalibur is "A perfect balance of mobility and offense, Excalibur is the ideal Warframe for new players." while the codex displays the prime description, maybe DE wanted this way since the prime version will be no longer available.

You may see it as a game design decision, and it certainly might be, but you really shouldn't rest your evidence on it, especially when it's unconfirmed.