Glaives way too throw-happy (hold melee throw sensitivity)

[GitGud66]

Since you brought back the ability to hold melee (E) to execute the traditional "heavy attack" of throwing the glaive, it is far too sensitive to the (E) hold and regularly mid combo it will start the heavy attack charge and put a full stop on Glaive melee's. Please consider reverting the change or increasing the duration (E) has to be held before it registers as a heavy attack command. Right now it is far too sensitive and makes Glaives a bit of a liability in CQC.

[Tiltskillet]

How long have you been using the new system?  For me, I do sometimes fire off a throw when I don't mean to, but it seems like now it only happens when I

1.  Change my mind after starting a throw.  And/or...
2.   Panic!  😛

I'm not sure, but it might help too if you take off a source of Heavy Attack Wind Up. 

2 hours ago, GitGud66 said:

Please consider reverting the change or increasing the duration (E) has to be held

The latter would be unfortunate.  I love meleeing with glaives and mixing up melee with throw because it's fun.   But pure throwing seems way more powerful.  And that aside, needing to hold the button for longer would make it feel a lot less fluid to me.

[Traumtulpe]

48 minutes ago, GitGud66 said:

[...]

Exactly the same happened with regular heavy attacks a while back. Took them months, just to remove the feature again...

Also, the DE is aware of the issue, it has been immediately reported by many people. Chances are they will just leave it as is for the remaining lifespan of Warframe. Somehow they are physically incapable to program a functioning "hold attack button to perform heavy attack" version.

Either such code is extraordinarily, EXTREMELY, difficult, or someone is lacking the required skills for his position.

[Tyreaus]

Would it really be that bad to move that functionality to the heavy attack button, even as an option? I would figure it would allow similar mix-ups that Tiltskillet talks about without making regular melee and throw have to share the same input (which seems to be the main issue). And it's not like the heavy attack button is doing much else when the Glaive isn't already flying about.

[Lutesque]

An easy solution would be to let the Player decide using a Slider....

The "one size Fits all" approach clearly isn't working 😐 !!!

[Drasiel]

It's not heavy attack on hold melee, it's throw, that difference is important. Heavy attack on a glaive is still bound to alt fire and makes the glaive explode. 

This change was the best thing to happen to glaives and finally returned the basic functionality we lost thanks melee 2.0.

[CarrotSalad]

I would like to just press E to throw it.. Or hold E indefinitely to aim it.

I found it fun to throw nezha's hula hoop like that.

[Zeddypanda]

I sometimes accidentally throw it while meleeing and my melee is bound to scrolling my dang mouse wheel. The game thinks I'm holding down an inherently un-holdable input.

So yes, it's just a tad too eager.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2021-01-16 at 9:20 PM, GitGud66 said:

Since you brought back the ability to hold melee (E) to execute the traditional "heavy attack" of throwing the glaive, it is far too sensitive to the (E) hold and regularly mid combo it will start the heavy attack charge and put a full stop on Glaive melee's. Please consider reverting the change or increasing the duration (E) has to be held before it registers as a heavy attack command. Right now it is far too sensitive and makes Glaives a bit of a liability in CQC.

Can PC players stop being completely dumb and actually use the option that changes button sensitivity? 

The last time you guys complained about this, we (console players) lost the entire option of holding melee to heavy attack, now it's a nightmare to aim gunblade heavy attacks. 

[CephalonCarnage]

and its possible the OP is talking about Orvius which has a special "tap E to do the puppet thing" that would certainly be sensitive to it all. I think the only real answer is to stop having 3 different actions on 1 keypress, or to make glaives thrown weapons only.

[GitGud66]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

Can PC players stop being completely dumb and actually use the option that changes button sensitivity? 

The last time you guys complained about this, we (console players) lost the entire option of holding melee to heavy attack, now it's a nightmare to aim gunblade heavy attacks. 

you mind telling me where this option you speak of is, every sensitivity option is for controllers and mouse aim, not a keyboard. Additionally as others have said. the glaive throw is separate from heavy attack so the keybind for this is the same button that is mashed for melee. There is also the likelyhood your version of the game omits keyboard options entirely and all settings are referring to controllers only for xbox hardware..

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

4 minutes ago, GitGud66 said:

you mind telling me where this option you speak of is, every sensitivity option is for controllers and the mouse, not a keyboard.

1) Enable melee with the fire input (because you probably already use gunfire with the mouse).

2) Change sensitivity. There it is.

So hard to do this...omg. Before you complain that you had to change the settings, pay in mind thay this is basically what we (console players) have to do now because you (PC players) complained about a problem that already had a solution.

[GitGud66]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

1) Bind the throw button to the mouse.

2) Change sensitivity. 

So hard to do this...omg. Before you complain that you had to change the settings, pay in mind thay this is basically what we (console players) have to do now because you (PC players) complained about a problem that already had a solution.

There is no separate throw button for Glaives on PC. Are your seriously suggesting to map melee/glaive throw behavior to a mouse movement? There is no possibility to set the physical sensitivity of a mechanical button. 

 

7 minutes ago, GitGud66 said:

you mind telling me where this option you speak of is, every sensitivity option is for controllers and mouse aim, not a keyboard. Additionally as others have said. the glaive throw is separate from heavy attack so the keybind for this is the same button that is mashed for melee. There is also the likelyhood your version of the game omits keyboard options entirely and all settings are referring to controllers only for xbox hardware..

 

[taiiat]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

2) Change sensitivity. There it is.

i don't think Sensitivity means what you think it means.

feel free to let everyone know how changing your Camera movement Sensitivity on either a Mouse or a Controller in any way affects any of your other Buttons.
oh wait, it doesn't! :D

 

 

not to mention that double binding Melee to the same Button as Shoot means that you'd lose the Melee instant switch feature that is a great Gameplay flow feature to usually never have to switch Weapons, since you can use Melee and Guns simultaneously with different Buttons.

[Zeddypanda]

7 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

and its possible the OP is talking about Orvius which has a special "tap E to do the puppet thing" that would certainly be sensitive to it all.

Huh. I ranked it to max and sold it without ever finding out the puppet thing.

It's indeed Orvius I had this happen with, though I can't speak for OP.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

@taiiat @GitGud66 

1) Controls 

2) Trigger press threshold/release. There are the 2 options for console, they control (with the same words) respectively: 

=> How much upward movement from the pressed state is required to register a release. 

=> How much downward movement from the released state is required to register a press. 

The triggers (on controllers) are the LT/RT or L2/R2 buttons. They work exactly the same way as keyboard keys and since you have to hold to activate the functionality in question (throw melee), they NEED, by definition, to work the same way, so it is not only my word that serves as confirmation but the functionality itself proves my point. 

Therefore, activate "Melee with Fire Weapon Input", change these settings and it should work. If you don't have them for keyboards, not my problem, ask for DE to implement it or just straight up buy a controller.

 

 

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

The triggers (on controllers) are the LT/RT or L2/R2 buttons. They work exactly the same way as keyboard keys 

If you don't have them for keyboards, not my problem, ask for DE to implement it or just straight up buy a controller.

KBM is 100% Digital Inputs. there are no Analog Inputs like the Thumbsticks or Triggers on a Controller.

nah, i don't desire Analog Inputs, i have over 120 Buttons in front of me. i like being able to use them. :)
the only time i like Analog Inputs, the only and only time, is Driving Games.

[Tyreaus]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

They work exactly the same way as keyboard keys 

While I don't know exactly how the average controller hardware is set up, most keyboards use switches or membranes to complete circuits when keys are pressed - it's entirely binary, where either the circuit is completed or it isn't. There aren't, for example, Hall effect sensors to register how much a key is pressed, or key distance of any sort. So the only measurable metric would be the length of time a key is (or isn't) pressed, which is what Lutesque above suggests with a slider controlling how long one has to press to register a throw.

( It's actually not that bad to take most keyboards apart and see how it works - not a bad idea to do it and clean up some, too! Just be sure to look up guides, because every one is different and you'll save a lot of headache knowing what's up going in. Instead of, say, finding out the conductive membrane is actually a bunch of individual membranes for each key and you have to set them back in after they all fell out of the keyboard... )

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

So the only measurable metric would be the length of time a key is (or isn't) pressed, which is what Lutesque above suggests with a slider controlling how long one has to press to register a throw.

Seems fine to me, as long as it doesn't force universal changes. Like the one from "hold melee to Heavy Attack".

[Kainosh]

On 2021-01-17 at 5:36 AM, Drasiel said:

It's not heavy attack on hold melee, it's throw, that difference is important. Heavy attack on a glaive is still bound to alt fire and makes the glaive explode. 

This change was the best thing to happen to glaives and finally returned the basic functionality we lost thanks melee 2.0.

Dunno about "best"..... Best would be if I could choose what button to use for heavy attack (Alt fire or E), and if its a "hold" or "tap".     Coz I so prefer  Alt tap= throw, Alt tap (glaive in flight) = detonate. 

[Drasiel]

27 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Dunno about "best"..... Best would be if I could choose what button to use for heavy attack (Alt fire or E), and if its a "hold" or "tap".     Coz I so prefer  Alt tap= throw, Alt tap (glaive in flight) = detonate. 

Best for me, I'm obviously talking about my own opinion. I would personally hate alt tap throw and alt tap explode because that would bring me back to accidentally blowing up the glaive in my face again and getting knocked on my ass.

[Kainosh]

On 2021-01-25 at 1:29 AM, Drasiel said:

my own opinion

I considered your opinion in my reply.  That is why I said that "best" would be a fully customizable system, where you can go as you like, and I can go as I like.

How unfortunate that you missed it.

[Drasiel]

12 hours ago, Kainosh said:

I considered your opinion in my reply.  That is why I said that "best" would be a fully customizable system, where you can go as you like, and I can go as I like.

How unfortunate that you missed it.

yeah that didn't come across clearly at all. You choosing explicit buttons and "completely customizable" are very different terms, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Kainosh]

7 hours ago, Drasiel said:

explicit buttons

Well..... Lets call em Button A and Button B then.... 

This is what I actually mean:

 

Available inputs:  

• button A (tap)  
• button A (hold) 
• button B (tap) 
• button B (hold)

Available commands:

• Melee attack / aerial melee / slam 
• Heavy melee attack / heavy slam
• Throw/shoot
• Return thrown
• Detonate thrown (Heavy melee stats)

Options:

• With gun in hands, hold Melee attack button to perform Heavy melee / Heavy slam     On / Off
• With gun in hands, hold Melee attack button to Throw/shoot     On / Off
• Slam Sensitivity ( radius/angle that triggers slam)   (-) --------------|--------------  (+)
• Auto Blocking while  Airborne    On / Off
• Auto Blocking triggering Aim glide   On/Off
• Hold input sensitivity (duration)    (-) --------------|--------------  (+)

 

Feel free to add something.....but I think its customizable enough.   

[Drasiel]

On 2021-01-26 at 11:30 PM, Kainosh said:

Well..... Lets call em Button A and Button B then.... 

This is what I actually mean:

 

Available inputs:  

• button A (tap)  
• button A (hold) 
• button B (tap) 
• button B (hold)

Available commands:

• Melee attack / aerial melee / slam 
• Heavy melee attack / heavy slam
• Throw/shoot
• Return thrown
• Detonate thrown (Heavy melee stats)

Options:

• With gun in hands, hold Melee attack button to perform Heavy melee / Heavy slam     On / Off
• With gun in hands, hold Melee attack button to Throw/shoot     On / Off
• Slam Sensitivity ( radius/angle that triggers slam)   (-) --------------|--------------  (+)
• Auto Blocking while  Airborne    On / Off
• Auto Blocking triggering Aim glide   On/Off
• Hold input sensitivity (duration)    (-) --------------|--------------  (+)

 

Feel free to add something.....but I think its customizable enough.   

I think what you have there is pretty robust, do we actually have a recall thrown command? If so I've managed to miss it for years.