Is it just me, or is DE making the game worse instead of better?

[Traumtulpe]

There are so many things in this game that are broken, unfinished, ineffective, and above all bugged. And with every update there are more. You can report severe bugs with videos and all, and watch them not be fixed 2 years later.

And when something finally does get changed, it doesn't get fixed or improved, it gets deleted or made worse.

I'm not even trying to be mean here, it's my honest impression.

Take for example status types - in the past we used Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, sometimes Cold, Radiation or Toxin.

Slash, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, Cold, and Toxin have all been nerfed heavily. Heat and Viral have been buffed. As a direct consequence, Blast, Gas and Cold are no longer used, and Corrosive only at low levels. Instead we use Heat, but mostly only at low levels as well. A net -3 to variety.

I don't see how this made anything better. I liked using Blast for CC, Cold for increasing status duration, and Gas for damage.

Or how about melee weapons? The list of nerfs they received is near endless. Momentum (knockdown resistance) deleted. Opening enemies to finishers deleted. Attack speed reduced. Damage reduced like 3 times already. Meta mods effectively deleted. Many forced procs deleted. Many good stances deleted and replaced with worse ones. Line of sight check added. Range reduced.

It doesn't feel fun anymore, being locked into slow and awkward animations for no payoff. Just use an explosive weapon - no animation lock, far greater range and kills through walls.

And, again, during all this time that melee got nerfed again and again and again, did DE even fix any bugs it had? Any at all? Because there are a lot (and I mean A LOT) that I remember from 1 or 2 years back, that are STILL there. Condition Overload, it got nerfed, but it's still bugged. Glaives, got nerfed, but are still bugged. You still can't heavy attack while wielding a gun (you could for a while, but it was horribly bugged - so DE deleted the feature instead of fixing the bug).

Or what about all those stances that don't have a complete moveset? 2 or 3 combos out of 4 being the exact same doesn't strike you as something worth fixing in years? How about a backwards combo? How about some free movement on the forward combo, or no janky forced movements on the neutral ones? How about heavy attacks that can actually hit an enemy right in front of you (yep, some can't do that)?

Feel free to disagree or have a discussion, or make useless remarks a'la "just leave if you don't like it". How long can you go on deleting features while adding bugs? Won't there be nothing but bugs left at some point?

[Tesseract7777]

I feel the opposite, I feel like enemy nerf after enemy nerf, and buff to our energy economy and survivability and everything else over the years has made the game a walking simulator, and that is why some people are finding certain parts of the quest SO HARD, as if they are playing bloody dark souls or something.

Go back a few years. You had Trin, and energy pizza's that cost a TON of your precious polymer. And that was IT. 

There was no Zenurik, or Vazarin. There was no Arcane Energize. Most frames simply could not use Rage, it wasn't even possible. 

We didn't have nearly the mods or arcane we have now, or so many broken new abilities to buff everything to the stratosphere. 

Used to be nullifiers required a more specific strategy instead of being another piece of atmosphere.

Manics spawned regularly and were actually interesting. Bursa's were a true annoyance, as were sapping ospreys. Enemy armor scaled harder. 

We didn't have revive cancel.

We DID have self damage. 

No Primed Sure Footed and mindless aoe spam. 

I mean I could go on and on for DAYS. 

Talk about us getting nerfed, how about talk about the gajillion ways we have been buffed over the years, and the enemies have been nerfed, to the point I feel like I am playing a kids story quest game on story mode. 

[Traumtulpe]

7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Talk about us getting nerfed, how about talk about the gajillion ways we have been buffed over the years, and the enemies have been nerfed, to the point I feel like I am playing a kids  story quest game on story mode.

That is a seperate issue. I'm not talking about nerfs in the sense that we lack power, what I am talking about is removed features. Also, you are talking way back with things like PSF and Zenurik.

And to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you. As I mentioned, Viral status effects were buffed, for example. This wasn't needed, Viral was already good before. But Blast, Cold, and Gas were effectively deleted. It is at the same time a buff to power, and a nerf to variety.

[Tesseract7777]

12 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That is a seperate issue. I'm not talking about nerfs in the sense that we lack power, what I am talking about is removed features. Also, you are talking way back with things like PSF and Zenurik.

I mean, I am going back even further than that, mainly because I think Warframe has been going the wrong way for a long time, and needs to go back to their roots, and imo the spoiler thing people are struggling with is strong evidence of that. 

However, if you are talking about bugs, I think that is a thing we gotta consider is a part of Warframe since forever, not sure when you started, maybe longer than me idk, I've only been here since 2015 and long standing bugs they struggle to squash has always been a thing, and it has never stopped them from nerfing things before. 

As for removed features, Warframe has been removing features and adding new ones for years, I don't think in theory that is the issue, it is more WHICH features are being removed, and which are being added imo. For example, no one complained when Stamina was removed, and wanted it brought back as a feature but "improved". We all cheered and thanked DE for coming to their senses. 

Sorry if I am still misunderstanding somewhat. 

In general I do think the game has been becoming anti-coop and not better, but worse for years, but maybe not quite in the way you do. 

Edit: I do agree every time they touch damage types they just make things worse.

"Fixing" gas just destroyed another viable damage type.

Fixing heat just made it way more op to the detriment of other types being used, same with viral. 

Impact is still a disaster and they tried to haphazardly fix it with a mod that basically makes it slash. 

Etc. etc. etc. 

Not even beginning to speak of us practically screaming to get them to do something about void damage. 

Or "fixing" magnetic damage by forcing us to use it on treasurers and hounds. 

I could go on for a while... I'll stop. 

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

imo the spoiler thing people are struggling with is strong evidence of that.

However, if you are talking about bugs, I think that is a thing we gotta consider is a part of Warframe since forever

You have to consider that there are a lot of people playing this game. Some of them are near blind, 12 years old, or 90 years old even. How many people found the quest to hard? 0.02% of players? It is for DE to consider these cases, and not lock players into a quest with no way out. But they don't neccessarily have to inform balancing.

I don't agree with the practice of adding more bugs than you fix, perpetually. Even if it is to late to even try and fix them all at this point.

[Felsagger]

23 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

There are so many things in this game that are broken, unfinished, ineffective, and above all bugged. And with every update there are more. You can report severe bugs with videos and all, and watch them not be fixed 2 years later.

And when something finally does get changed, it doesn't get fixed or improved, it gets deleted or made worse.

I'm not even trying to be mean here, it's my honest impression.

Take for example status types - in the past we used Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, sometimes Cold, Radiation or Toxin.

Slash, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, Cold, and Toxin have all been nerfed heavily. Heat and Viral have been buffed. As a direct consequence, Blast, Gas and Cold are no longer used, and Corrosive only at low levels. Instead we use Heat, but mostly only at low levels as well. A net -3 to variety.

I don't see how this made anything better. I liked using Blast for CC, Cold for increasing status duration, and Gas for damage.

Or how about melee weapons? The list of nerfs they received is near endless. Momentum (knockdown resistance) deleted. Opening enemies to finishers deleted. Attack speed reduced. Damage reduced like 3 times already. Meta mods effectively deleted. Many forced procs deleted. Many good stances deleted and replaced with worse ones. Line of sight check added. Range reduced.

It doesn't feel fun anymore, being locked into slow and awkward animations for no payoff. Just use an explosive weapon - no animation lock, far greater range and kills through walls.

And, again, during all this time that melee got nerfed again and again and again, did DE even fix any bugs it had? Any at all? Because there are a lot (and I mean A LOT) that I remember from 1 or 2 years back, that are STILL there. Condition Overload, it got nerfed, but it's still bugged. Glaives, got nerfed, but are still bugged. You still can't heavy attack while wielding a gun (you could for a while, but it was horribly bugged - so DE deleted the feature instead of fixing the bug).

Or what about all those stances that don't have a complete moveset? 2 or 3 combos out of 4 being the exact same doesn't strike you as something worth fixing in years? How about a backwards combo? How about some free movement on the forward combo, or no janky forced movements on the neutral ones? How about heavy attacks that can actually hit an enemy right in front of you (yep, some can't do that)?

Feel free to disagree or have a discussion, or make useless remarks a'la "just leave if you don't like it". How long can you go on deleting features while adding bugs? Won't there be nothing but bugs left at some point?

 

13 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I feel the opposite, I feel like enemy nerf after enemy nerf, and buff to our energy economy and survivability and everything else over the years has made the game a walking simulator, and that is why some people are finding certain parts of the quest SO HARD, as if they are playing bloody dark souls or something.

Go back a few years. You had Trin, and energy pizza's that cost a TON of your precious polymer. And that was IT. 

There was no Zenurik, or Vazarin. There was no Arcane Energize. Most frames simply could not use Rage, it wasn't even possible. 

We didn't have nearly the mods or arcane we have now, or so many broken new abilities to buff everything to the stratosphere. 

Used to be nullifiers required a more specific strategy instead of being another piece of atmosphere.

Manics spawned regularly and were actually interesting. Bursa's were a true annoyance, as were sapping ospreys. Enemy armor scaled harder. 

We didn't have revive cancel.

We DID have self damage. 

No Primed Sure Footed and mindless aoe spam. 

I mean I could go on and on for DAYS. 

Talk about us getting nerfed, how about talk about the gajillion ways we have been buffed over the years, and the enemies have been nerfed, to the point I feel like I am playing a kids story quest game on story mode. 

These two comments deserves a good thorough discussion. These have good concerns with the game. 

 

1. The problems that I see are Area of Effect and level of difficulty. Both of these problems compromise the game integrity, specially the immersion factor. 

2. The attention to detail and performance of the game deserves more care. The details matters and shows how much commitment developers have with the product quality. 

3. The constant problem of balance. Some items are simply outliers with the rest of the item's performance. Not everything should be the same but at least many things should be viable. 

4. The enemy, A.I. needs a lot of attention. First the AoE and Nuke frames should be adjusted and then work with the A.I. behavior for military accuracy and movement. 

5. The sense of danger and failure is simply immaterial and even trivial. Warframes should fear big numbers of enemies when they are well equipped. In this game Warframes clean up entire tile sets. 

[Astorias1998]

I am going to be honest. 
     I think you are wrong, Op. Warframe has been consistantly one of the more fun games to play, to the point that it's amout of content, and sistems, and variety in both atmosphere and missions keep me engaged.  To the point in wich Now days I play more warframe than WoW, and I used to be a hardcore wow fan. 

I always feel that there's always something to do in game, that all things you collect matters.  But, for me the thing that I, and many others fell is that the predominance of BIG aoe wepons with the same Hunter Mminitions + viral Meta, is lame and boring. And Could hurt the gun variety of the game. 

I am not fan of AOE spam,  it would be cool if could get a buff to other tipes of damage, to make more builds viable for Steel path. 

I am glad that we have seen a lot of nerfs in things that are dominant, that way it encourages people to change builds from time to time and prevents stagnation, many people would say: "Why did DE dosen't make the other mods equally as good instead of nerfing de "GOOD ONES"" But some modes just by how they work are incredibly and so utterly broken that that isn't possible, and I prefer that they take some meassures to prevent power creep. 

And you can actually cancel melee animation by rolling, it was part of the melee revamp a few years a go.  As far as the other bugs of glaives and Heavy attack that dosen't hit... I haven encoutered any.  I always find melee too powerful anyway, and now with the recent adition for guns I find myself enjoy the game more, than just pressing "E" to win. Thankfully now I can use all my arsenal to win and play. 

I already don't play on public just because of my style of play dosen't align with the majority of Spamming Kuva bramma + Saryn every mission. ANd to be honest it would be cool to see more variety in weponry, But aoe by it's nature is too powerful.  

 

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You have to consider that there are a lot of people playing this game. Some of them are near blind, 12 years old, or 90 years old even. How many people found the quest to hard? 0.02% of players? It is for DE to consider these cases, and not lock players into a quest with no way out. But they don't neccessarily have to inform balancing.

I don't agree with the practice of adding more bugs than you fix, perpetually. Even if it is to late to even try and fix them all at this point.

I don't disagree with you, I just think after many years they have dug themselves into a hole. I remember way back when the game was mostly void keys, I was already begging them on the forums to focus on the core game and not add system after system after side system, because I feared it would create an amount of needed bug fixes and reworks that would compound upon itself and never be something they could properly maintain. Of course, here we are now years later... 

But yes, I have also considered that the fact that DE hasn't said a word about the people stuck in the quest, at least yet, suggests it isn't any real emergency. That the amount of people actually stuck may be barely a statistical blip at best. Now, maybe they should let those people out, or shouldn't have locked them in to begin with, I have no idea, but that is a good point at the end there. We should not be making balancing decisions based on outliers. If it really is a truly tiny statistical percentage, finding a way to help those particular people is one thing (especially if it is not so much nerfs, but something truly disability related we can work on), but we cannot and should not be deciding balance based on those people. 

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, Astorias1998 said:

But, for me the thing that I, and many others fell is that the predominance of BIG aoe wepons with the same Hunter Mminitions + viral Meta, is lame and boring. And Could hurt the gun variety of the game. 

I am not fan of AOE spam,  it would be cool if could get a buff to other tipes of damage, to make more builds viable for Steel path.

[...]

And you can actually cancel melee animation by rolling, it was part of the melee revamp a few years a go.  As far as the other bugs of glaives and Heavy attack that dosen't hit... I haven encoutered any.  I always find melee too powerful anyway, and now with the recent adition for guns I find myself enjoy the game more, than just pressing "E" to win. Thankfully now I can use all my arsenal to win and play.
 

Glad you enjoy the game.

You seem to overlook some things though. The Hunter Munitions + Viral exlosions Meta is a direct consequence of the nerfs to Corrosive and melee (and buffs to Viral and guns). Which I was talking about.

A dodge roll displaces you and usually takes longer than waiting for an attack to finish. Being stuck in a very slow animation when you want to go somewhere, or jump, etc. just feels bad.

You call melee pressing "E" to win, but explosive weapons are more "click to win" than melee ever was.

[Felsagger]

How can a Knell Prime a secondary almost outperforms a Tenora prime when such weapon is a primary? 

These are things that leaves me speechless. Anyone expects that a HEAVY WEAPON obliterates, a primary smacks heavy and a secondary deals moderate damage. But how can a secondary outperforms heavies? 

 

HOW? These are the things that needs a LOGICAL balance in damage delivery. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Railjack is still buggy. The game mode has improve from the first time it landed but still forces players to close the game to get out of the bugged mess. Cross play/cross save is suppose to happen this year. I'm hoping we get dedicated servers first just to make sure there's less bugs. We have less buttons on console. I'm still skeptical what a touch screen can do.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Glad you enjoy the game.

You seem to overlook some things though. The Hunter Munitions + Viral exlosions Meta is a direct consequence of the nerfs to Corrosive and melee (and buffs to Viral and guns). Which I was talking about.

A dodge roll displaces you and usually takes longer than waiting for an attack to finish. Being stuck in a very slow animation when you want to go somewhere, or jump, etc. just feels bad.

You call melee pressing "E" to win, but explosive weapons are more "click to win" than melee ever was.

Hear hear! 

The only good thing about the corrosive damage nerf is people  no longer typing "need x4 cp" in chat, which always made me wonder if the whole game was going to end up on an FBI watch list... all they really ended up doing is concentrating the damage meta even further into a smaller amount of damage types. Along with the gas "fix" you would have to be silly to ever touch more than the tiniest handful of damage types. 

[Oreades]

I think the problem stems from the fact that they know the game needs some serious rebalancing but instead of doing that they kick the can down the road by blanket removing players abilities and scooping out more and more of what makes Warframe Warframe. Then replacing that with poor semblances of other games, ignoring why people show up to play Warframe in the first place. 

So far The New War was the least Warframe version of Warframe yet to exist and I cringe at the thought that there is any more Warframe left to strip out of Warframe for whatever they shoot down the pipe next.

 

Doing the balancing the right way is not going to be an easy task because there are years of rampant power creep to deal with but it beats the alternative of removing Warframe from Warframe every time they want to do anything. 

[Astorias1998]

hace 1 minuto, Traumtulpe dijo:

Glad you enjoy the game.

You seem to overlook some things though. The Hunter Munitions + Viral exlosions Meta is a direct consequence of the nerfs to Corrosive and melee (and buffs to Viral and guns). Which I was talking about.

A dodge roll displaces you and usually takes longer than waiting for an attack to finish. Being stuck in a very slow animation when you want to go somewhere, or jump, etc. just feels bad.

You call melee pressing "E" to win, but explosive weapons are more "click to win" than melee ever was.

Yes. But I don't get why shoud it be a problem, if you want to cancel a melee, you do a roll, if the enemy is far, you shoot, or Do ground slide with a melee attack. to close the breach.  But i think that some of the Melee stances are a bit stupid, like Tempo royale. Click+E combo. I like too see the animation fluity at is fullest that's why I dot mod crazy amouts of  Attack speeds on Melee, that and the fact that I am unable to control the heck I am doing while I am flying away with single swing, I am glad with the slower phase melee

[Astorias1998]

hace 1 minuto, Tesseract7777 dijo:

Hear hear! 

The only good thing about the corrosive damage nerf is people  no longer typing "need x4 cp" in chat, which always made me wonder if the whole game was going to end up on an FBI watch list... all they really ended up doing is concentrating the damage meta even further into a smaller amount of damage types. Along with the gas "fix" you would have to be silly to ever touch more than the tiniest handful of damage types. 

That gas fix was bad. Gas was good, even if it was bugged it could had the pontential of beig so fun. 

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Astorias1998 said:

Yes. But I don't get why shoud it be a problem, if you want to cancel a melee, you do a roll

Yeah, and I actually do that a lot. You can also slide while your movement is locked by a melee animation, which I do even more. Still, being stuck in an animation feels bad, even if you can choose to be stuck in another animation instead.

By the way, Saryn's Molt can be used to cancel any melee animation-lock instantly, and this wasn't always the case (previously you were unable to cast it), it is one of the few cases where something actually got better.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

2 minutes ago, Astorias1998 said:

That gas fix was bad. Gas was good, even if it was bugged it could had the pontential of beig so fun. 

it was good verus corpus. I think Gas proc damage should bypass shields like Toxin does. At the same time there should NOT be enemy damage resistance save for a few instances like lich/sisters, a few bosses, and some heavy units like toxic ancients. 

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Hear hear! 

The only good thing about the corrosive damage nerf is people  no longer typing "need x4 cp" in chat, which always made me wonder if the whole game was going to end up on an FBI watch list... all they really ended up doing is concentrating the damage meta even further into a smaller amount of damage types. Along with the gas "fix" you would have to be silly to ever touch more than the tiniest handful of damage types. 

Yeah...

Another problem that leaves me confused is that WEAPONS THAT REQUIRES SKILL in many ways are the WEAKEST when the weapons that doesn't require aims rewards the player with an insane amount of AoE. 

Where is the power and precision of my OPTICOR. Right now I can't do much with it. Why we don't have more weapons like that? I love my Opticor because is a precision weapon but when there are many enemies the whole thing is a license to your doom. I know that Opticor Vandal exists but some things that the Opticor has and the Daikyu has is the insane reward of power that comes with precision. These are literally perfect weapons that deserves more love. 

Weapons that requires skill, weapons that are dangerous (self damage must return) handling them  MUST be rewarded with potential damage. Right now spin to win and fidget spinning worth more than precise single enemy take down weapons. 

 

Any of you remembers the Secura Penta with the five explosive shells that ricochets? THAT WAS a true tactical weapon. Now who has it? Junkrat. :p I want it back in my Warframe game. 

grrrr!!!. 

[Voltage]

I don't think DE is making the game "worse", they are just steering the game towards the new generation and demographic of players the game is marketed towards. I don't agree with where they are going, and it's really apparent between the poor man's Warframe and poor man's Operator being the future of the game. The big red flag to me is that they are too far gone with feature creep and compounding abandoned content that no amount of time in a day can address. 

In regards to your specific post, I agree mostly. Warframe Revised was hyped up by the people who enjoy a walking simulator and unconscious gameplay. However, the health of the game would have benefitted more with better scaling that scaled higher than before, not making everything weaker. The amount of crutch mods we have (especially Galvanized Mods) are unnecessary and becoming too boring. Melee weapons becoming homogenized besides the stance mod you choose is also boring.

I'm not sure I have any valid feedback as I understand that the game-state I loved the most is not designed for the players we have today. DE is a business and they will just follow profits. If they followed their roots more, we wouldn't have seen +360% Base Damage weapon Arcanes, "Primed" Multishot Mods, Gundition Overload, Primed Sure Footed left as-is, and other questionable power creep decisions. It feels like just yesterday DE was telling us about their plans to nerf Nuke Trinity, Telos Boltace, Synoid Simulor, and Tonkor for their overtuned performance and over usage.

Now we just have an AoE fiesta where you play something like Infested Arbitration Defense and you just spawn kill with Kuva Ogris for 100 waves, or you go into a Fissure and enemies are dead in the next tile ahead of you before you even open the door.

[nslay]

42 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Take for example status types - in the past we used Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, sometimes Cold, Radiation or Toxin.

I came late, but I remember damage types before RRR. We primarily used Corrosive, Slash and sometimes Viral and Gas. Nothing else really.

• Toxin? - Slash used to bypass shields, so why bother with Toxin!? Oh, you used to get Toxin procs from Gas too! You used Gas for AOE... something Toxin doesn't do by itself.
• Blast? - It knocked enemies down. It was an annoying byproduct of 60/60 mods back when you'd mod for Corrosive... and end up with Corrosive/Blast!
• Cold? - I don't even remember what the status effect did! I just remembered that it was better than using Blast or Heat when you could drop one of the 60% mods! Oh... because Cold is good against Alloy armor.
• Radiation? - What did you ever need this for? Alloy armor? You could already strip 100% armor permanently with Corrosive!

Now-a-days? A lot of players use Viral, Slash, Heat and Cold (Cold's CC is pretty useful!). Toxin is good for SP Corpus missions since Slash no longer bypasses shields. Everything else? Not really used anymore (at least not for status reasons).

I think stealth players liked Magnetic in the old system (it disappeared bodies fast). Magnetic doesn't really do anything useful now.

I still use Corrosive for modest armor stripping in some places. It's still pretty bad now though...

55 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Glaives, got nerfed, but are still bugged.

Odd to hear the former from you. Yes, they nerfed Glaives to do 30% less damage... if you could really call that a proper nerf. They're still ridiculously powerful!

58 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Or what about all those stances that don't have a complete moveset? 2 or 3 combos out of 4 being the exact same doesn't strike you as something worth fixing in years? How about a backwards combo? How about some free movement on the forward combo, or no janky forced movements on the neutral ones? How about heavy attacks that can actually hit an enemy right in front of you (yep, some can't do that)?

Using stances always seemed so awful to me. I just don't even bother. It's one reason I like Glaives... rather than just 'e' and ground slam (the only 2 melee things I use), you could also toss and explode them. Who wants to futz around with stances and being forced forward or locked in animation?

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I don't think DE is making the game "worse", they are just steering the game towards the new generation and demographic of players the game is marketed towards. I don't agree with where they are going, and it's really apparent between the poor man's Warframe and poor man's Operator being the future of the game. The big red flag to me is that they are too far gone with feature creep and compounding abandoned content that no amount of time in a day can address. 

In regards to your specific post, I agree mostly. Warframe Revised was hyped up by the people who enjoy a walking simulator and unconscious gameplay. However, the health of the game would have benefitted more with better scaling that scaled higher than before, not making everything weaker. The amount of crutch mods we have (especially Galvanized Mods) are unnecessary and becoming too boring. Melee weapons becoming homogenized besides the stance mod you choose is also boring.

I'm not sure I have any valid feedback as I understand that the game-state I loved the most is not designed for the players we have today. DE is a business and they will just follow profits. If they followed their roots more, we wouldn't have seen +360% Base Damage weapon Arcanes, "Primed" Multishot Mods, Gundition Overload, Primed Sure Footed left as-is, and other questionable power creep decisions. It feels like just yesterday DE was telling us about their plans to nerf Nuke Trinity, Telos Boltace, Synoid Simulor, and Tonkor for their overtuned performance and over usage. Now we just have an AoE fiesta where you play something like Infested Arbitration Defense and you just spawn kill with Kuva Ogris for 100 waves.

Literally that MAKES the game worse. 

 

I agree with what you are saying but what about the classical tradition in video games like aiming skill, memory, puzzle solving and quick reaction. 

 

EVERY GENERATION LOVES THAT. EVERY GENERATION LOVES RISKS and when things are AT STAKES. Why all of the sudden DE dumbs down their own game when EVEN THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS applauds when Master Chief learns his lesson in Halo Infinite. 

Besides phone games not necessarily needs to be dumb in order to sell. Quality delivers in every medium. 

 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

DE has to appease two kinds of players. Some people legitimately feel like Operators ruined the game, and some do not. 

I feel it's ok for melee to be better because it's super obvious this game has deep ninja/eastern philosophy themes to it, which is why I play. Others may not feel the same and want more western Rambo gunplay type themes so that's there as well. 

Either way, I trust DE and more level headed players to make decisions instead of two people saying "nerf the game to the ground" and "let us helmith every ability because muh power fantasy".

[Felsagger]

Madurai, do you know what I like about Warframe? 

That I can be Genji on some situations and Soldier 76 on others. The variety in just one frame is fascinating. However the game MUST provide situations where the player is forced to switch mindsets IN THE BATTLEFIELD. 

That's what many of us wants. 

[Learicorn]

While i don't agree with your views on balance (we are stronger than ever and my melee still puts any other weapon i have to shame), i do agree that they seem to just dump content into the game and immediately move on from it, leaving many bugs and bad design choices unattended. Just look at Eidolon fights, they're still extremely headache inducing, often bug out making them impossible to complete, and have an unbearable amount of cc and spam that would make Overwatch proud. 

I don't think they do it on purpose though, i just think they don't know what the playerbase wants and i don't blame them. When they finally add something fun and actually engaging people will complain that it's "not like the game they know" (*cough* New War *cough*). There's also the fact that if they're not constantly pumping out content people will complain that there is nothing to do, although i do believe the Warframe team should be able to do both with how big this game has become. 

[Traumtulpe]

7 minutes ago, nslay said:

• Toxin? - Slash used to bypass shields, so why bother with Toxin!? Oh, you used to get Toxin procs from Gas too! You used Gas for AOE... something Toxin doesn't do by itself.
• Blast? - It knocked enemies down. It was an annoying byproduct of 60/60 mods back when you'd mod for Corrosive... and end up with Corrosive/Blast!
• Cold? - I don't even remember what the status effect did! I just remembered that it was better than using Blast or Heat when you could drop one of the 60% mods! Oh... because Cold is good against Alloy armor.
• Radiation? - What did you ever need this for? Alloy armor? You could already strip 100% armor permanently with Corrosive!

I think stealth players liked Magnetic in the old system (it disappeared bodies fast). Magnetic doesn't really do anything useful now.

Yes, they nerfed Glaives to do 30% less damage... if you could really call that a proper nerf. They're still ridiculously powerful!

Toxin is for weapons with low status chance vs Corpus. Blast was hard CC from a weapon, sometimes useful. Cold increased status duration (slash damage). Radiation is reasonable CC, effective against Ancient Healers, effective against status immune Alloy Armor.

That wasn't Magnetic, it was also Radiation.

The nerf to Glaives was the removal (effectively) of the quick throw. Damage of a full charge is still ridiculous.