Is it just me, or is DE making the game worse instead of better?

[PublikDomain]

I don't know about worse, just "not much better". There are a lot of big things that could be improved, like elemental damage types/status procs, but I don't know if I'd agree that they're worse than they used to be. Before Viral being on top it was Corrosive. Melee gets nerfed, still really good, still really boring and samey. Features get added, features get removed. The playerbase isn't growing anymore, but it's not really dropping all that hard either. It's all more or less floundering in place.

[Duality52]

23 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

1. The problems that I see are Area of Effect and level of difficulty. Both of these problems compromise the game integrity, specially the immersion factor. 

2. The attention to detail and performance of the game deserves more care. The details matters and shows how much commitment developers have with the product quality. 

3. The constant problem of balance. Some items are simply outliers with the rest of the item's performance. Not everything should be the same but at least many things should be viable. 

4. The enemy, A.I. needs a lot of attention. First the AoE and Nuke frames should be adjusted and then work with the A.I. behavior for military accuracy and movement. 

5. The sense of danger and failure is simply immaterial and even trivial. Warframes should fear big numbers of enemies when they are well equipped. In this game Warframes clean up entire tile sets. 

This is the tough part, or even near impossible for DE and the community to fix. All of these well listed and explained problems tie in with the game's identity as a looter shooter and horde shooter.

• Points 1, 2, 3

Thing is DE's commitment and detailing to the art and environment that makes Warframe Warframe is always on point, but the total opposite is happening with the game's balancing. For a looter shooter like Warframe, players care only for the loot, nothing else.

That leads to players always optimizing or outright cheese for efficiency over anything else, which can act as a detriment to theirs and other players' engagement in the game. This isn't surprising considering that parts of the game will still remain unrewarding in proportion to the time spent trying to get the reward.

• Points 1, 4, 5

The sheer AoE of certain weapons and frames renders enemy AI pointless, as what's the point of an advanced AI if they can't do anything at all? Whether dead, or if they get outright shut down (Nidus's Larva, Khora's Ensnare, Vauban's Bastille turned into Vortex, etc.). This also leads to DE making controversial points of balancing enemies against us such as invincibility phases or outright ability immunity such as the Aurax Robotics.

We not only even have many means to prevent death, but also there are 4 (up to 6 from maxed Arcanes) Revives if you happen to "die".

Simply take the Tenno into other shooters and you will see that whatever enemy AI is encountered in those shooters, all enemies no matter who or how unique they are are grouped in one class: cannon fodder.

The reason why I stated the problem of fixing these balancing issues is near impossible by DE and the community is due to: massive player backlash and decisive inaction. The workshop that had listed the removal of the Gladiator set bonus from Helios's Deconstructor prompted responses of "removing fun". This in turn was due to how DE also normalized the behavior ever since the Plains of Eidolon launched back in 2017.

[DreisterDino]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Felsagger:

Another problem that leaves me confused is that WEAPONS THAT REQUIRES SKILL in many ways are the WEAKEST when the weapons that doesn't require aims rewards the player with an insane amount of AoE. 

Yes, the weapon balance is definitely off. There is absolutly no reason to use the Daikyu over the Bramma for example.

The Daikju only has more damage per shot if you ignore the AoE-Damage of the Bramma, but that is theoretical anyway and doesnt matter in normal gameplay.

 

I think everyone can agree that in theory, a bow like the Daikyu should be the absolut master in killing single targets and bows like the Bramma should be the go to for clearing hordes of enemies. But in practice, the Bramma is just as good killing strong, single target enemies. The Bramma shouldnt be better than the Daikyu dealing with boss units like Acolytes for example. But try dealing with acolytes with the Daikyu and then with the Bramma. Its a joke honestly. Like you say, the Daikyu is way harder to use, especially against units like Acolytes, still it does worse than a Bramma even if you land every single shot perfectly.

 

Edit: Even if the Daikyu would kill every single unit in SP with a headshot no matter the level (Bosses excluded), it would still be worse than the Bramma. But i honestly think that even a radical approach like that could be justified for weapons like the Daikyu. Because like i said, even then they would be outperformed by other guns, and due to the horde nature of Warframe it would still take lots of skill and designation to use that Bow effectively, but at least there would be some kind of a reason to use it.

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Talk about us getting nerfed, how about talk about the gajillion ways we have been buffed over the years, and the enemies have been nerfed, to the point I feel like I am playing a kids story quest game on story mode.

This.

The game doesn't feel all that challenging except for when you do endurance runs for, honestly, no other reason than because you either want to fight tougher enemies for the same rewards you got at lower levels or because you're too lazy to end the mission and start it back up again. Otherwise it's a cake walk through and through, a walking simulator if you team up with Saryn, Mesa, or some other press-4-to-win cheese frame.

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

This is the tough part, or even near impossible for DE and the community to fix. All of these well listed and explained problems tie in with the game's identity as a looter shooter and horde shooter.

• Points 1, 2, 3

Thing is DE's commitment and detailing to the art and environment that makes Warframe Warframe is always on point, but the total opposite is happening with the game's balancing. For a looter shooter like Warframe, players care only for the loot, nothing else.

That leads to players always optimizing or outright cheese for efficiency over anything else, which can act as a detriment to theirs and other players' engagement in the game. This isn't surprising considering that parts of the game will still remain unrewarding in proportion to the time spent trying to get the reward.

• Points 1, 4, 5

The sheer AoE of certain weapons and frames renders enemy AI pointless, as what's the point of an advanced AI if they can't do anything at all? Whether dead, or if they get outright shut down (Nidus's Larva, Khora's Ensnare, Vauban's Bastille turned into Vortex, etc.). This also leads to DE making controversial points of balancing enemies against us such as invincibility phases or outright ability immunity such as the Aurax Robotics.

We not only even have many means to prevent death, but also there are 4 (up to 6 from maxed Arcanes) Revives if you happen to "die".

Simply take the Tenno into other shooters and you will see that whatever enemy AI is encountered in those shooters, all enemies no matter who or how unique they are are grouped in one class: cannon fodder.

The reason why I stated the problem of fixing these balancing issues is near impossible by DE and the community is due to: massive player backlash and decisive inaction. The workshop that had listed the removal of the Gladiator set bonus from Helios's Deconstructor prompted responses of "removing fun". This in turn was due to how DE also normalized the behavior ever since the Plains of Eidolon launched back in 2017.

THIS!!!!

This is exactly why I get scared with Warframe sometimes. 

The community needs a consensus. We need to think and tell DE almost euphorically that some of the points in the last quest where outstanding. We have to tell them when they do things right and tell them. "Please make more of this" your return of investment will multiply like bread and fishes. 

Do you know why 343i is miraculously surviving now after all the fiascos they made? They listened carefully to the public in general. They never attended all the wish lists by their fans. Do you know what they did? They performed a reboot of the game to HALO one and multiplied the attributes of that game. 343i allowed modifiers in the game by mod enthusiasts because they knew that way what the community wanted for years. 343i decided to ADD FUN in Halo Infinite. They rescued the whole franchise in one shot. 

DE goes back and forth because the community IS CONFUSING. WE CAN'T reach a consensus on what we want out of warframe. DE goes shopping with the current trends and plug these trends in the game ending as content islands. 

DE depends too much on sales the first few weeks when new content launches. Once those weeks passes away that content IS DOOMED in the sea of forgotten content. We have to massively press hard provoking a reaction on DE. This SHOULD NOT be the way a game evolves. 

Eidolons are thrown there when they could be insanely fun. Necramechs could be super fun but no evolution in game play happened with them. Even K Drives and Arch Wing could improve like the experimental flight that was taken down. 

WE get new toys that are launched once and are treated like VOLATILE CONTENT when those items could elevates the quality of life in the game. 

 

[nslay]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Toxin is for weapons with low status chance vs Corpus. Blast was hard CC from a weapon, sometimes useful. Cold increased status duration (slash damage). Radiation is reasonable CC, effective against Ancient Healers, effective against status immune Alloy Armor.

That wasn't Magnetic, it was also Radiation.

The nerf to Glaives was the removal (effectively) of the quick throw. Damage of a full charge is still ridiculous.

I can't imagine any situation where I would ever directly use Toxin before RRR. I'd use Gas which gave Toxin for free and is better because of AOE!... and Slash bypassed both shields and armor (also better!). If I was picking out a weapon, I'd probably pick something that's way better than some hypothetical "low status chance" weapon.

Oh, OK. So that's what Cold did. You put "slash damage" in parentheses as if that were a use case of Cold... but I would think modding for Viral with Slash is better for the damage. That's what I used to do and reapplying the Viral was pretty easy (given that we're implicitly talking about status weapons).

I can't find anything about this detail either for Radiation or Magnetic... I'm pretty sure it was Magnetic that did this. That animation for enemies dying from Magnetic damage still sometimes plays now (the enemies turn into light and vanish).

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Yes, the weapon balance is definitely off. There is absolutly no reason to use the Daikyu over the Bramma for example.

The Daikju only has more damage per shot if you ignore the AoE-Damage of the Bramma, but that is theoretical anyway and doesnt matter in normal gameplay.

 

I think everyone can agree that in theory, a bow like the Daikyu should be the absolut master in killing single targets and bows like the Bramma should be the go to for clearing hordes of enemies. But in practice, the Bramma is just as good killing strong, single target enemies. The Bramma shouldnt be better than the Daikyu dealing with boss units like Acolytes for example. But try dealing with acolytes with the Daikyu and then with the Bramma. Its a joke honestly. Like you say, the Daikyu is way harder to use, especially against units like Acolytes, still it does worse than a Bramma even if you land every single shot perfectly.

 

Edit: Even if the Daikyu would kill every single unit in SP with a headshot no matter the level (Bosses excluded), it would still be worse than the Bramma. But i honestly think that even a radical approach like that could be justified for weapons like the Daikyu. Because like i said, even then they would be outperformed by other guns, and due to the horde nature of Warframe it would still take lots of skill and designation to use that Bow effectively, but at least there would be some kind of a reason to use it.

 

Do you know that the Daikyu can stick two or three enemies in one shot. It has perforation power. Weapons with puncture MATTERS!!! 

It's not about the galvanized stacking randomness or the constant elemental switches. Good weapons should perform because those are hard to handle. Daikyu and Opticor are cousin. 

There are so many illogical inconsistencies that throws me off the game. At least there should be a hierarchy of damage that follows common sense. Some weapons like the heavies with cool downs should be super devastating followed by the hierarchy of primary, secondary and last the melee weapons. How in any logical world a melee outperforms a biffed 8 forma'ed, god roll RIVEN'ED LARKSPUR??!!!!

 

...dear lord....

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

I recently returned with a bunch of friends. Had a nice break of over a year... been back for about a month now.

My main issue is lag and bugs. I have great internet, but I've had blue screens, I've been stuck under floors after hacking a console, I've been pulled into a next mission before I finished loading out of one, missions ending during a lich fight, screen getting frozen while I can move my character, lost connection to the host is a popular one.

In regards to damages, with liches, I feel like most of what I know goes out the window. Its a meta mess. I feel like DE went a bit "extra" when it comes to damage, overall. Its interesting to play around with and come up with builds that melt but its not necessary, and not necessarily fun having to dive to such detail all the time.

Melee combos are all over the place, in my opinion. One moment you're executing a combo, the next moment you're flying past the enemies. Engagement goes right out the window.

Nerfs. I've never played a pve game that goes so hard on nerfs. After losing a lot of time and forma, I learned not to commit too much to anything. 

Grind vs reward... I'll just say this.. It feels like DE misunderstood content with grind, and forgot what reward means along the way.

 

I still like the game, don't get me wrong. I have thousands of hours in it. I also have multiple year+ long breaks. Its a nice balance.

 

Is DE making the game worse? perhaps for some long term players. Seems like most of DEs efforts have new players in mind.

[SDGDen]

44 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The only good thing about the corrosive damage nerf is people  no longer typing "need x4 cp" in chat, which always made me wonder if the whole game was going to end up on an FBI watch list... all they really ended up doing is concentrating the damage meta even further into a smaller amount of damage types. Along with the gas "fix" you would have to be silly to ever touch more than the tiniest handful of damage types. 

we kinda traded in "must have corrosive projection" for "must have a 100% armor strip ability or slash procs" at higher levels. 

also, I see the main topic of the discussion is effectively the strength of the players VS the difficulty of the enemies (and also some annoyances with the lack of variety due to one thing being obviously much better than everything else). And I do kinda agree. currently warframe suffers from 4 big problems, at least for "end-game" players. these issues don't show up early/mid game because the issue is not with the entire game being too easy, it's the players scaling much, much further than the enemies effectively.

>enemy scaling/AI, the enemies at the moment are just puppets to put big numbers on the screen when you shoot your bramma or press 4, they have no meaningful ways of fighting us or putting up ANY form of resistance. their reliance on armor to be any threat at all is ridiculous as well.
>energy economy, at the moment we can effectively cast any 4th ability every 5 seconds with just two mods and a focus school. I'm in favour of having abilities used frequently but using your 4th every 5 seconds is a bit much, comparatively, pre-focus unless you used energy pads you were generally limited to around every 20 to 40 seconds depending on energy orbs and energy siphon.
>AOE go brrrrr, both abilities and weapons. this ties into enemies not having a way of putting up resistance. AOE weapons and abilities should clear out "fodder" enemies and thin out hordes, but tougher enemies (ya know, the ones that are specifically supposed to be ideal targets for stuff like snipers and bows) should not be instantly killed by AOE weapons and abilities.
>damage resistance, most notably the ability to stack damage resist on damage resist on damage resist. this is both for players and enemies in some cases. it's really easy to get an effective 99.x% DR as a player, which can make you pretty much impossible to beat. at the same time, a corrupted heavy gunner at level 100 has 99.5% damage resist when near a corrupted ancient. neither enemies or players should be THAT bullet spongey. 


I would not say that warframe has gotten worse. In fact, it's gotten better in MANY ways. theres so many new, cool, fun things that have been released over the years. Its just the difficulty that's diminished over time due to powercreep and uh... DE listening to the community too much when they complain about the word "nerf" existing. (legitimately, DE rarely nerfs anymore compared to in the past because the community keeps going absolutely ballistic when DE nerfs anything, regardless of whether its justified or not)

this topic has recently been cropping up on the forums a whole bunch. So that plus the new quest being "difficult" in comparison to the rest of the game for endgame players suggests we may see SOME communication about the difficulty of the game (either in the direction "we made the quest too hard, whoopsie" or "yeah no the game has gotten too easy and things are going to be changing").

they're going to be doing "the right thing for warframe", whether this is a difficulty rework or not is anyone's guess. 


it's good to see this topic being discussed more often, it feels like things are finally shifting back from back in the day where most people only wanted DE to make us stronger. 

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

<snip>

As for removed features, Warframe has been removing features and adding new ones for years, I don't think in theory that is the issue, it is more WHICH features are being removed, and which are being added imo. For example, no one complained when Stamina was removed, and wanted it brought back as a feature but "improved". We all cheered and thanked DE for coming to their senses. 

<snip>

That's actually not true at the time there was a whole handful of people demanding it come back as a feature and have it apply to melee too to give it added value, there were downvoted out of existence (back when we had downvotes on the forums) but they certainly existed and were loud.

[Hypernaut1]

Players come, and players go. But Ive been here for years. They must be doing something right. 

[Voltage]

57 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I agree with what you are saying but what about the classical tradition in video games like aiming skill, memory, puzzle solving and quick reaction. 

 

EVERY GENERATION LOVES THAT. EVERY GENERATION LOVES RISKS and when things are AT STAKES. Why all of the sudden DE dumbs down their own game when EVEN THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS applauds when Master Chief learns his lesson in Halo Infinite. 

That landscape has changed. The new generation of consumers likes to be told everyone is a winner, that they have a special place in the world, and a handful of lies to not give them the feeling that they are either average or below average at anything. This goes from sports to gaming to education choices.

You can't speak for what other people enjoy. If the direction of dumbing down the game was unprofitable moving forward, DE would have changed course 4-5 years ago. This isn't some new trend for this game, and DE is milking the cow quite well with their target audience.

[Felsagger]

9 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

we kinda traded in "must have corrosive projection" for "must have a 100% armor strip ability or slash procs" at higher levels. 

also, I see the main topic of the discussion is effectively the strength of the players VS the difficulty of the enemies (and also some annoyances with the lack of variety due to one thing being obviously much better than everything else). And I do kinda agree. currently warframe suffers from 4 big problems, at least for "end-game" players. these issues don't show up early/mid game because the issue is not with the entire game being too easy, it's the players scaling much, much further than the enemies effectively.

>enemy scaling/AI, the enemies at the moment are just puppets to put big numbers on the screen when you shoot your bramma or press 4, they have no meaningful ways of fighting us or putting up ANY form of resistance. their reliance on armor to be any threat at all is ridiculous as well.
>energy economy, at the moment we can effectively cast any 4th ability every 5 seconds with just two mods and a focus school. I'm in favour of having abilities used frequently but using your 4th every 5 seconds is a bit much, comparatively, pre-focus unless you used energy pads you were generally limited to around every 20 to 40 seconds depending on energy orbs and energy siphon.
>AOE go brrrrr, both abilities and weapons. this ties into enemies not having a way of putting up resistance. AOE weapons and abilities should clear out "fodder" enemies and thin out hordes, but tougher enemies (ya know, the ones that are specifically supposed to be ideal targets for stuff like snipers and bows) should not be instantly killed by AOE weapons and abilities.
>damage resistance, most notably the ability to stack damage resist on damage resist on damage resist. this is both for players and enemies in some cases. it's really easy to get an effective 99.x% DR as a player, which can make you pretty much impossible to beat. at the same time, a corrupted heavy gunner at level 100 has 99.5% damage resist when near a corrupted ancient. neither enemies or players should be THAT bullet spongey. 


I would not say that warframe has gotten worse. In fact, it's gotten better in MANY ways. theres so many new, cool, fun things that have been released over the years. Its just the difficulty that's diminished over time due to powercreep and uh... DE listening to the community too much when they complain about the word "nerf" existing. (legitimately, DE rarely nerfs anymore compared to in the past because the community keeps going absolutely ballistic when DE nerfs anything, regardless of whether its justified or not)

this topic has recently been cropping up on the forums a whole bunch. So that plus the new quest being "difficult" in comparison to the rest of the game for endgame players suggests we may see SOME communication about the difficulty of the game (either in the direction "we made the quest too hard, whoopsie" or "yeah no the game has gotten too easy and things are going to be changing").

they're going to be doing "the right thing for warframe", whether this is a difficulty rework or not is anyone's guess. 


it's good to see this topic being discussed more often, it feels like things are finally shifting back from back in the day where most people only wanted DE to make us stronger. 

THIS MAN GETS IT. 

HE gets it. 

 

The old saying applies. When I do my Hydron leveling I END UP WITH EPILEPSY and loss of vision due to all the freaking radiation emitted by my monitor. Too much ability spamming. Even abilities are spammed IN SECONDS when in other games takes a fair time of 30 seconds. 

WARFRAMES ARE LITERALLY NUCLEAR PLANTS that has endless resources of energy for self damage. When a friend of mine saw all the hectic action in Hydron with four nuke frames I told him that NOTHING WAS HAPPENING THERE. In games like Overwatch, in a match happens more situations while in Warframe you end up blind with all the special effects and burned Christmas trees you see there. 

Warframe is a vivid example of "TOO MUCH NOICES but few WALNUTS" in simpler words "much ado about nothing". This is one of the illness the game has. It needs strength and reinforcement in the game play. Right now warframe is about visual impact but braindead performance when it should be the other way around. 

The spammaton of 'ults' or abilities on these warframes reminds me clicker heroes. Press square to win. Click to win. 

 

 

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Slash, Corrosive, Blast, Gas, Cold, and Toxin have all been nerfed heavily.

I lolled at this.

Just because it no longer bypasses shields? Poor you...

Its still the most used IPS and considered by many the strongest so in my opinion it was not Nerfed enough. By me Slash procs should be based on the Weapon's Slash damage solely as to give players reasons to build with Slash mods, Slash Procs shouldnt proc on shielded enemies until their shields deplete because honestly, shields dont Bleed and the damage shouldnt bypass armor as to give players more reasons to build for armor stripping in both weapons and frames.

The only damage types that actually got Nerfed was Corrosive, Blast and Gas as Corrosive is no longer a Permanent effect, Blast and Gas are crap.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

That landscape has changed. The new generation of consumers likes to be told everyone is a winner, that they have a special place in the world, and a handful of lies to not give them the feeling that they are either average or below average at anything. This goes from sports to gaming to education choices.

 

But then I see games like DOOM ETERNAL performing well because skill is rewarded. 

But then I SEE a lot people being happy when Chief's ass is split in half by HUNTERS in Halo Infinite LEGENDARY difficulty.

But then I see people asking for traditions of puzzles solving, aim skills, decision making, memory and risk taking in video games. 

 

The LANDSCAPE seems that changed because that's what the media make us believe. MIT is MIT and Oxford is Oxford. Many of us that grew up with the game became adults and still value challenge. Do you know that skill videos in YOUTUBE gets MILLIONS OF VIEWS. People with SKILL and HIGH PERFORMANCE? 

I think that DE is taking the easy road of the least effort possible for quick gains. YOU ARE NOT WRONG WITH WHAT you are saying but there are large portions of the population that values traditions, skills, performance, memory and quality. 

WE ARE NOT THE MINORITY. 

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

You can't speak for what other people enjoy.

Of course I CAN'T

But I can tell you that everybody in this thread agrees that DE is throwing south their own game. We have different backgrounds, ages, education, cultures and different preferences. 

There is a consensus that is happening right now. 

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

If the direction of dumbing down the game was unprofitable moving forward, DE would have changed course 4-5 years ago. This isn't some new trend for this game, and DE is milking the cow quite well with their target audience.

Correct, BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE IS COMPETING for the attention. 

We will see DE reacting when great titles begins to launch in full force in February with the head start of Horizon Zero 2 Forbidden West and soon Elden Ring. They are NOT feeling pressure now. But they will. 

You know what? Guerrilla Games sold 10 millions of copies with Horizon zero 1. People still believe that quality is a thing of the past. People believe that Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica Studios, Rocksteady and From Software are developers that only exists in our imagination. 

The last five years we've seen halting but once the engine of good quality starts DE must adjust their knobs if they want to stay alive. 

 

[SDGDen]

8 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I lolled at this.

Just because it no longer bypasses shields? Poor you...

Its still the most used IPS and considered by many the strongest so in my opinion it was not Nerfed enough. By me Slash procs should be based on the Weapon's Slash damage solely as to give players reasons to build with Slash mods, Slash Procs shouldnt proc on shielded enemies until their shields deplete because honestly, shields dont Bleed and the damage shouldnt bypass armor as to give players more reasons to build for armor stripping in both weapons and frames.

The only damage types that actually got Nerfed was Corrosive, Blast and Gas as Corrosive is no longer a Permanent effect, Blast and Gas are crap.

slash procs should proc slash damage. not true damage. 

also armor scaling on enemies shouldnt be so nuts that true damage is neccesary. 

[Felsagger]

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ive been here for years. They must be doing something right. 

Yes, their art and music. Both are amazing. 

Vanity project sells for better or worse. But we are gamers not fashion designers or music composers. Gamers wants to GAME. And if we want a good game, such game should provide challenge and interesting engagement throughout progression. In other words, FUN matters. 

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

The only damage types that actually got Nerfed was Corrosive, Blast and Gas as Corrosive is no longer a Permanent effect, Blast and Gas are crap.

Cold got nerfed too as I have already mentioned, and you also overlooked the Toxin nerf.

Yes, Slash got nerfed. If you look at it objectively, Slash is pretty bad. The damage type itself is worthless, what people want is the proc. And this proc is actually very weak compared to other DoT's - Heat for example refreshes its own duration, does a lot more damage, and has CC.

Slash is only good because it bypasses the only defense enemies have that matters - armor. Slash is only overpowered because armor is.

[SDGDen]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

We will see DE reacting when great titles begins to launch in full force in February with the head start of Horizon Zero 2 Forbidden West and soon Elden Ring. They are NOT feeling pressure now. But they will. 

there's also a game apparently in the works called "vanguard", a f2p game from the creators of "control" (which highly suggests it will be a 3rd person ability shooter). so there's a decent chance something might release that competes with warframe at least a little.

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Of course I CAN'T

But I can tell you that everybody in this thread agrees that DE is throwing south their own game. We have different backgrounds, ages, education, cultures and different preferences. 

There is a consensus that is happening right now. 
 

there's no consensus community wide. there's plenty of people that still demand zero nerfs, all buffs. game must be easier. 

but things are shifting, more and more people are talking about the game's difficulty. which means DE may listen soon.

 

[Drasiel]

11 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I lolled at this.

Just because it no longer bypasses shields? Poor you...

Its still the most used IPS and considered by many the strongest so in my opinion it was not Nerfed enough. By me Slash procs should be based on the Weapon's Slash damage solely as to give players reasons to build with Slash mods, Slash Procs shouldnt proc on shielded enemies until their shields deplete because honestly, shields dont Bleed and the damage shouldnt bypass armor as to give players more reasons to build for armor stripping in both weapons and frames.

The only damage types that actually got Nerfed was Corrosive, Blast and Gas as Corrosive is no longer a Permanent effect, Blast and Gas are crap.

I'd argue they should only make slash procs scale off slash damage if they actually made the physical damage mods work like the elementals do.

Elemental mods take total damage value and apply their bonus damage to specifically that element.

Physical mods take only the specific damage type value and apply their bonus damage to specifically that physical.

So using physical damages mods, unless specifically try to weight status values, always massively decreases your total damage output and it's been this way forever.

[TheLexiConArtist]

5 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

slash procs should proc slash damage. not true damage. 

also armor scaling on enemies shouldnt be so nuts that true damage is neccesary. 

Technically, Slash procs Finisher damage, not True damage.

True damage is what it did before the nerf - ignoring both shields and armour. Finisher damage ignores armour but not shields.

1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

I'd argue they should only make slash procs scale off slash damage if they actually made the physical damage mods work like the elementals do.

Elemental mods take total damage value and apply their bonus damage to specifically that element.

Physical mods take only the specific damage type value and apply their bonus damage to specifically that physical.

So using physical damages mods, unless specifically try to weight status values, always massively decreases your total damage output and it's been this way forever.

The problem with scaling proc damage off of anything specific to the damage type is that Forced Procs exist. In case of Slash, particularly, you have forced procs from HM, Internal Bleeding/Haemorrhage, Stances. Basing slash proc damage off Slash damage proportion would make these do little or no damage in many cases.

Especially in the case of IB/Haemo where it's designed for getting a slash proc because you didn't have a good enough proportion to proc it naturally.

[DrivaMain]

There are always going to be winners and losers in balance changes. I don’t think the game is “worse”, it’s just doesn’t feel the same anymore or your favorite play style is no longer viable

I still find it stupid that they make Gas Caps. Why in the world they make a DoT status have a cap! The cap makes it so that you are wasting DoT stacks because it uses a FIFO (First in First Out) behavior to keep the stack under the cap.

I still remember gas was a viable option for high status shotgun. It actually made shotguns like the Tigris Prime have AoE capabilities. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

I'm not even trying to be mean here, it's my honest impression.

My honest opinion based on the issues you named is that you mis-titled the thread.

It should be: Is it just me, or Are We making the game worse instead of better?

Every issue you named is something players, content creators, etc clamored for.
Even bug fixes have received so much pushback over the years that it's likely easier to leave them be provided they don't meet the level of game-breaking or exploit worthy.

Absent that, I can't disagree with your stance on the matter 😀

[Drasiel]

4 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Technically, Slash procs Finisher damage, not True damage.

True damage is what it did before the nerf - ignoring both shields and armour. Finisher damage ignores armour but not shields.

The problem with scaling proc damage off of anything specific to the damage type is that Forced Procs exist. In case of Slash, particularly, you have forced procs from HM, Internal Bleeding/Haemorrhage, Stances. Basing slash proc damage off Slash damage proportion would make these do little or no damage in many cases.

Especially in the case of IB/Haemo where it's designed for getting a slash proc because you didn't have a good enough proportion to proc it naturally.

yeah I can see that Ideally those would base their damage on the source that triggered it, which would probably make hunter munitions the most powerful simply because it's source is a crit which would be it's own balancing issue.

Really I just have the ulterior motive of wanting physical damages to work like elemental ones because you just never use the physicals.

[Uhkretor]

... I warned people... Got ignored... People got what I warned them about... People complain about it...

 

... Yep, Universe is still aligned.