Angels of the Zariman: Hotfix 31.5.6

[freakazoid5000]

2 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

We've got a fix for this being tested out. As a workaround until the next hotfix, it should work if you do not attack the angel before its big health bar appears.  (Turns out Tenno are super great at taking these down quickly)

Thank you for the update.

[-Bv-MadMan711]

you massacred my boy

[Graavarg]

Sometimes I don't get DE. And sometimes I truly do not get "the playerbase".

As an example of not getting DE I totally fail to understand a mission concepts that encourages leeching. Because gathering Voidplumes while someone else handles the mission IS leeching, unless agreed to in advance. I've been in missions where three out of four players expects "someone else" to handle the actual mission while they run around all over the map looking for Voidplumes. Even failing missions due to this. So I've once again reverted to playing solo, since I really hate leeching. I understand where the leeching comes from, if you don't care about anyone but yourself the most effective way to get standing is leeching Voidplumes while someone handles the actual mission. But this is supposed to be a coop game, so why on earth have DE implemented such an idiotic mission mechanism? It boggles my mind...

As does making me stand on the extraction watching three other players spend minutes and minutes and minutes running around the map, with the mission already finished. If you are playing for the mission drop, your two options after a completed mission is forfeiting the reward or spending more time standing on extraction than doing the actual mission, both a totally waste of the only human resource you cannot replace, time. Whoever came up with that brilliant concept should be ashamed of themselves. Just give us the option of LEAVING THE SQUAD already.

And then "the playerbase", oh boy!

It was clear to anyone with half a brain that the Cascadia Overcharge was bugged on release. Crying for getting the bug back or about it being a "nerf" is just showing everyone how millennially braindead you are. And it makes me cringe...

And when we now, finally, after years and years and years of complaining how easy the game is, now that we finally have some semi-real enemies... ...there are players that can't handle them and want them nerfed! Yes, I do mean the newly re-formed Eximus units. Within seconds of them appearing in-game there were demands that they should be nerfed. They should especially not be immune to cc, one of the three biggest crutches in the game (the other two being AoE weaponry and invisibility). Like, really!!! How suckingly bad players are you, if you can't handle them??? You should bloody blame yourself, not the Eximus units (or DE). Yikes!

Did Apollo yesterday in order to get the Eximus kills for ranking up the Incarnon weapons, but happened to randomly join three other "fairly high MR"-players. They killed Eximuses left and right so bloody fast I couldn't get all my kills! During 15 or something rounds (didn't count), and even with way beyond level 100 enemies. And these all happened to be real Tenno (not Youtube copy-cats), all playing with "weird" personal non-standard setups (but they sure knew their stuff 🙂👍). So all this crying does not compute, and since there is nothing wrong with the new Eximuses the problem lies somewhere else. 

If anything the new Eximuses are still a bit wimpy, something anyone can deduce from DE having to limit their total spawns in missions (which I definitely do not like). The only real hardship they bring is that you can't play half asleep since they run straight through your cc and they'll "pop" their new abilities at you unless you move a bit. And they are most fun when encountered in "packs", at least you get some sort of a fight. Then again, I am dreaming of the original (non-nerfed) Wolf coming back, but with one or two random new Eximus abilities instead of the three henchmen (running around in their underwear, or something).

Sigh. Finally got those things off my chest.

I do hate the new Void Sling, but I'll give it a chance, since repetitio mater studiorum est has again been proven correct. The "hitting Angel balls with your tiny operator body"-mechanism seemed bloody near impossible initially, but now feels easy as pie, after X angels. Can't get over the delay though, I sort of understand why it's there and why DE thinks it'll work, but it sure does feel 100% counter-intuitive. Like pressing a trigger on a weapon that seems to misfire, but then unexpectedly actually does fire a second or two later. It is mostly about the first "sling", re-slinging while in the air feels more natural, for some unfathomable reason. So it's probably a mental thing, also since if I imagine a "charge-up" instead of the "delay pause" (with the charge-up using the exact same amount of time) it feels a lot more natural. So go figure...

[Furyk-Karede]

Zariman Bounty reward descriptions really need to be changed to "Go f*ck your hat!" rather than what's listed now. Since maybe 2 in 5 bounties either break during mission or, miracle of miracles, the pre-alpha mission does succeed- most or all rewards are gone upon return to the Crispylisp.

RNG, not very cool when it stacks. "Maybe you get this reward... maybe you get any reward"

[ReddiToP]

is it just me , or cascadia overcharge Rank4 and rank5 have the same 300% buff ?

[[DE]Danielle]

7 hours ago, N309 said:

Does the Eximus spawn limit affect syndicate spawns? Red veil for example spawns Eximus chargers. Do those get affected by the limit or they spawn all of them?

It does not get affected no :)  

[Numerounius]

Any eta for the akarius explosion fx not working properly as client being fixed?

[Twisted_Wisdom]

21 hours ago, Grave.Knight said:

Yeah? They should also bring back Itzal's blink and Coptoring.

In line with DE Steve saying some Devstreams back that the aim was going to be making the less good things, better instead of nerfing the best to bring it back in line with the not so good. DE should have left Itzal's blink alone and just provided every other archwing with blink ability instead, then everyone wins.

[Grommile]

3 minutes ago, Twisted_Wisdom said:

DE should have left Itzal's blink alone and just provided every other archwing with blink ability instead, then everyone wins.

Sometimes, a thing is too good, and you'd have to redesign literally everything to bring it back to where it is merely quite good.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

17 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Void Sling's pretty great, leave it as is.

Would be nice to have a choice between using void dash or voidsling, then everyone wins.

[fo3nixz]

22 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Solo player = No more than 2 Eximus at a time (this is consistent with non-endless mission caps)

rip solo disruption cap eximus spams :(, so im better of keeping it alive lol

[BDT_Flames]

@[DE]Danielle  pls make video How to  kill  solo on  Steel Path Incursion (Kuva Fortress) Disruption (Eximus wave)

l  kill Demolisher Kuva Guardian  before  with dash and destroy melee weapon now with 2 eximus immunity + with others grineers is disco 

[Horonelius]

How about fixes for getting a completely different set of voidplumes after extracting?

[Magnus]

5 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

For all those who have been asking and might have missed our other mentions elsewhere, we are actively looking at some changes to Void Sling based on feedback - Nothing to share at the moment as we are taking into consideration all things Void Sling. 

The best you can do would be to remove the charging of sling, so it moves instantly. To accomplish that, removing the tether it throws out entirely and instead have some kind of lunge or dash forward. Rather than standing around and waiting for it, you just thrust your body through enemies and tiles and actually move quickly and RESPONSIVELY.

The speed should also be increased about 500% at the same time, to bring the speed up much higher to a useable amount, as right now, there's no reason to use Sling for movement, only Warframes, so it would be a bit more comparable with Void Dash.

On top of that, accuracy is important when moving that fast, so removing that little light that blocks where you're going would help tremendously with seeing exactly where you're going, making it so you can aim purely with your actual reticule.

But accuracy isn't always enough, since right now, if Sling so much even touches an object while moving, it will fully stop you. If we could maybe look back at Void Dash and take a little bit of inspiration, instead we can have our operator slide off such a small obstacle instead of being completely stopped by it. And for accuracy sake, remove any FoV shifts so people can clearly adjust where they'd like to go while still moving.

Let's also just consider removing the delay on using it over and over. Perhaps if you push Ctrl Space again while using this new kind of lunge forward, it'll buffer the input and use it again instantly, that way you can spam it repeatedly until you're out of energy.

Now, on top of all that, we could also aim glide, or void mode making operators hover for a moment, for even better control when using this new kind of lunge that moves far more quickly and more accurately. That way, we don't need anything like intentionally slowing down everyone because a few people had difficulty with control.

[S0NGA]

2 hours ago, Twisted_Wisdom said:

...DE Steve saying some Devstreams back that the aim was going to be making the less good things, better instead of nerfing the best to bring it back in line with the not so good...

this seems to me more like a very political and subtle way of saying that will going to nerf something, without having to admit it!

[S0NGA]

19 minutes ago, Magnus said:

The best you can do would be to remove the charging of sling, so it moves instantly. To accomplish that, removing the tether it throws out entirely and instead have some kind of lunge or dash forward. Rather than standing around and waiting for it, you just thrust your body through enemies and tiles and actually move quickly and RESPONSIVELY.

The speed should also be increased about 500% at the same time, to bring the speed up much higher to a useable amount, as right now, there's no reason to use Sling for movement, only Warframes, so it would be a bit more comparable with Void Dash.

On top of that, accuracy is important when moving that fast, so removing that little light that blocks where you're going would help tremendously with seeing exactly where you're going, making it so you can aim purely with your actual reticule...

I would really like to know what motivated the developer to create this new system!!!

I don't remember seeing comments about how bad the previous system was!!!

What led to this change?!?!?

since I have never seen complaints about the old system, I can't imagine why it would be better than the old one.
 

[KanariaFolf]

Thanks for the fixes! Please revert Void Sling to Void Dash, or at least add an option in the settings to toggle it back and forth. Another idea that's been mentioned a lot is letting normal operator have Void Dash, while giving the drifter Void Sling. There are a lot of good suggestions that have been made by several people, most of which would work fine. Also, please remove the cooldown on transference. It's unnecessary and wastes a lot of time.

Edit: Just noticed DE is taking our feedback into consideration. I'm still suggesting the above, but glad this issue will be addressed one way or another.

[Dr._Werdenhoff]

Still 50% "no evac chance" after mission Zariman objectives complete. Please fix it.

[SubTh3ory]

33 minutes ago, KanariaFolf said:

Thanks for the fixes! Please revert Void Sling to Void Dash, or at least add an option in the settings to toggle it back and forth.

Oh yes, bring back the tacky Void Dash so people can speed-run missions and complain to others in the lobby for taking too long, as they need to get back to zipping back and forth through Eidolon heads with their operator to make them easier to kill... because it completely makes sense, right?

Just nevermind.  I have generally supported the direction DE has taken Warframe ever since Fusion Core's were replaced with the Endo system, and I guess my sentiment is getting me salty since everything is turning into speed-run exploits.  The game never used to be about that.  It was about the dark, gritty and badass space ninjas with mysterious backgrounds.  I have no idea what happened.

[CoreWolf]

5 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Sometimes I don't get DE. And sometimes I truly do not get "the playerbase".

As an example of not getting DE I totally fail to understand a mission concepts that encourages leeching. Because gathering Voidplumes while someone else handles the mission IS leeching, unless agreed to in advance. I've been in missions where three out of four players expects "someone else" to handle the actual mission while they run around all over the map looking for Voidplumes. Even failing missions due to this. So I've once again reverted to playing solo, since I really hate leeching. I understand where the leeching comes from, if you don't care about anyone but yourself the most effective way to get standing is leeching Voidplumes while someone handles the actual mission. But this is supposed to be a coop game, so why on earth have DE implemented such an idiotic mission mechanism? It boggles my mind...

As does making me stand on the extraction watching three other players spend minutes and minutes and minutes running around the map, with the mission already finished. If you are playing for the mission drop, your two options after a completed mission is forfeiting the reward or spending more time standing on extraction than doing the actual mission, both a totally waste of the only human resource you cannot replace, time. Whoever came up with that brilliant concept should be ashamed of themselves. Just give us the option of LEAVING THE SQUAD already.

 

 

I do have to agree, this mission design is refreshing but it's also very problematic for public groups:

1. A lot of people don't understand the majority of standing is from the Angel and the voidplumes. If you just play the mission itself for the reward you're getting less than ~25% of the total standing, and sub 20% if you factor in Arcanes.
2. Some people just want to rush the big gains - the Angel, the objective, the couple of mirrors for Quills. That will get you roughly ~50% of the standing without having to search for the rest. Other people want to maximise each mission, or just enjoy searching. These are conflicting playstyles, and just results in both sides annoying the other.

It's led to me finding it much, much easier to just go solo. Sometimes you'll get a group all on the same page, but usually at least one person is wanting to do the opposite. And when the game is discouraging group play I just find I'd rather log off and go play something that's actually designed as single player instead.

 

Back to the mission design - I like the hunting for voidplumes, but in my opinion:

1.  It's OK for the Mobile Defense and Exterminate, as you naturally run through the level and the two goals, although still conflicting (speedrun the mission vs take your time searching), are not necessarily incompatible; it can work sometimes.
2.  It's very *not* ok for the new mission types. In my opinion the Voidplume world drops should not exist in the endless missions, and the standing reward from the mission itself should be improved signficantly.
3. The rewards in general are very lacklustre; I can't see any reason to play the new game modes once you've got the unique blueprints unless you *really* want focus lenses, or can't find a better way to get relics and endo (there are many.....)

It takes all of about an hour to realise all you should be doing is rushing the exterminate mission, ideally with a split group for the objective and voidplumes; with bounties if it has a good one, and killing Angels to collect Pinions and Arcanes. Everything else is irrelevant, unfortunately. I actually think the new mission designs are very interesting but I can't see any reason those nodes won't be dead within a couple of months.

The grind also seems even more artifically inflated here than with previous standing grinds, if that's even possible. Not only are the objectives a trap for the unknowing player - most of the standing is outside of the usual game reward mechanics - but the trade-in items are needed for standing *and* the new weapons, ranks ups, etc. People who don't know better are going to trade them all in to rank up, only to find they've got to go and farm very specific drops all over again.

 

Going off on another tangent but I definitely agree with opinions that the 'quest' wasn't great here. Every other new faction has had tons of personality and charm, and even though any quest is relatively short compared to the massively long playtime of the average player, that time was always spent well. This one genuinely felt like a mission tutorial and nothing else. It's hard to criticise too much though as this is off the back of the New War, which was exceptionally good, the best quest Warframe has ever released by far - it would have felt a lot more joined up had both parts released simultaneously which was perhaps the plan? I can understand that this update probably had limited time and it's not a big deal overall, but just easy to notice this part didn't hit the usual level. That may also be due to the open world factions constantly raising the bar over the years :-)

To summarise on the update as a whole - the Focus rework is great; new mission types are fun, Incarnon weapons have a lot of potential, and atmosphere and map design is very enjoyable. There are some really good things here. However this update is let down by unfocused mission objectives, obtuse faction grind, and badly structured rewards. On the Warframe front Gyre was amazingly fun but after being 'fixed' seems to be just more mastery fodder, she has very poor survivability and without the crazy damage there's no real reason to use her. Bad timing with an update that once again encourages using tanks and weapon buffing frames due to Overguard. I don't understand why a new "anti-CC" mechanic has been added when CC was already deeply unpopular before this. The Operator and Incarnon weapons will be the lasting change from this update, but I hope the new mission types can find a more rewarding place in the game's structure elsewhere in the future.

 

[Krankbert]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb CoreWolf:

It takes all of about an hour to realise all you should be doing is rushing the exterminate mission,

The fact that every single other game mode was or still is completely buggy isn't helping there either.

[Grommile]

2 hours ago, Magnus said:

But accuracy isn't always enough, since right now, if Sling so much even touches an object while moving, it will fully stop you. If we could maybe look back at Void Dash and take a little bit of inspiration, instead we can have our operator slide off such a small obstacle instead of being completely stopped by it. And for accuracy sake, remove any FoV shifts so people can clearly adjust where they'd like to go while still moving.

This bit, right here, is a genuinely good idea.

The rest of your post is a overly long-winded way to say "scrap Void Sling".

Which they're not going to do.

[Zakimus]

1 hour ago, SubTh3ory said:

Oh yes, bring back the tacky Void Dash so people can speed-run missions and complain to others in the lobby for taking too long, as they need to get back to zipping back and forth through Eidolon heads with their operator to make them easier to kill... because it completely makes sense, right?

Just nevermind.  I have generally supported the direction DE has taken Warframe ever since Fusion Core's were replaced with the Endo system, and I guess my sentiment is getting me salty since everything is turning into speed-run exploits.  The game never used to be about that.  It was about the dark, gritty and badass space ninjas with mysterious backgrounds.  I have no idea what happened.

Fast game is fast and just keeps getting faster, slowing down just kinda sucks.  I don't care about speed running whatever who cares exploit thing, go fast now to feeling like I'm running in a swimming pool. I'm the other kinda salty I guess. And for me at least, part of the what happened thing is it's the same mysterious thing still with like very little story progression, a lot of the same mysteries are still the same with little to no tid bits about it and kinda telling the same story again and again but each time from another point of view

[SubTh3ory]

13 minutes ago, Zakimus said:

Fast game is fast and just keeps getting faster, slowing down just kinda sucks.  I don't care about speed running whatever who cares exploit thing, go fast now to feeling like I'm running in a swimming pool. I'm the other kinda salty I guess. And for me at least, part of the what happened thing is it's the same mysterious thing still with like very little story progression, a lot of the same mysteries are still the same with little to no tid bits about it and kinda telling the same story again and again but each time from another point of view

I mean, I really like the fast-paced nature of this game, in fact that is what gives me so much thrill playing it.  It's not how fast-paced it is naturally, it's what the new community of players demand and eventually gets implemented that bothers me.  It's the constant obsession over who gets everything the fastest in the game, the pissing contests, the exploitative builds that leaves players like me behind because I enjoy the game for an entirely different reason.  The new eximus system has me dying more than I ever have and my head is spinning trying to keep up with everything that's going on.  All for the sake of "We need an actual challenge!" or "Warframe lacks content!", the incessant rhetoric of the community that speedruns literally everything without stopping to smell the roses for just a moment.  No content?  You sped through all the content so fast, you passed it.  Not a challenge?  You didn't make the majority of your builds yourself and followed exact instructions from a YouTuber on how to cheese all the challenges that were even presented to you.  Steel Path added tougher units that out-scaled the star-chart by several fold.   Health and armor was rebuilt from the ground up to make it more challenging to deal with, requiring you to look into the effects of different elements in order to overcome them.
Now, these eximus have been the latest iteration of a new challenge, and we will again inevitably find a new way to cheese those as well.  All the while, people will return to the forums and YouTube community to again complain about Warframe not being challenging enough, while similarly complaining that this game has no content after blasting through it all without a blink.

[AlexMercer]

Please add an option to change between void dash and void sling or atleast revert back to void dash the new void sling is worse in every aspect?