Take a hit DE

[Zimzala]

Whereas I just reinstalled this morning because if the changes make this many people cry, they must be good for the game, IME.

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, Cody said:

would be nice to play the game the way i'd like to without having someone in the other corner whining about my playstyle or the weapons i enjoy using. thats what i'm "unable to do" is play the game how i enjoy. because apparently people have a problem with everything and want to watch the world (or in this case the gaming community) burn.

So you'd prefer a world where the game never advances and things that disrupt other players' experiences never change?

That sounds like a horrible idea and I would hate playing that game. 

[Cody]

1 minute ago, FreeWilliam said:

So you'd prefer a world where the game never advances and things that disrupt other players' experiences never change?

That sounds like a horrible idea and I would hate playing that game. 

sure

[SneakyErvin]

58 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I feel like we are talking in circles.  Please re-read that hypothetical mid-game player scenario I wrote a few replies back.  It is hypothetical because I do not that other player's exact situation, but I'm guessing that is the general situation they are in as they indicated resources are tight.  If you are telling them simply to ditch Wukong in addition to building a viable Secondary and Melee, then they would have to scrounge up another viable frame (do they even have the slots?), another gold potato, forma, mods, endo...  Their progress will now be set back for months and not just weeks, depending on how frequently they play.

That archon defense mission is, in essence, a Steel Path Sortie-style Defense but with no self-revives.  If you run out of ammo there, odds are you will run out of ammo on a regular SP mission, indicating that the other player was most likely telling the truth.  I used that mission as an example because that and the mission before it are the only ones I did with my Vermisplicer before I swapped in Pax Charge.

No need to build a secondary or melee. Without the clone their ammo wont be gone in seconds, and if they have all the mods you lined up they will perform as good as my own versions of those weapons with one single little difference, the lack of 1 single primed elemental mod, that is it. And if I constantly sustain my ammo within a single mag on Zarr, those that lack the primed elemental mod should without issues be able to manage it with those other extra spare 5 shots outside of the mag.

Archon Defense is most certainly not like a solo steel path defense (without self revives). We are talking about a constantly moving objective that results in mobs being far more spread out and sporadic than anything you face in a normal defense mission set up or arbitrations for that matter. Regular defense has a pace, you know how far the furthest spawn will have to run to reach the target. On archon aswell as sortie defense, that pace is severely interrupted and stragglers will occur constantly. So if you use just a single weapon with low ammo it will run out. You also need to risk abandoning the objective to go out and collect ammo again, as opposed to normal defense structure where it ends up around the objective.

I just did this week's archon defense. Captain Dum-Dum decided to camp for 8 waves in the worst spot possible before heading into some caves, leaving enemies to camp out at range and wear him down, forcing me to spread out my fire in a 360 degree area versus small clicks of enemies. If that was a normal defense I'd guard the openings and likely use a frame that could shield the objective or round up mobs aswell. Neither being useful in a mission where the objective may wonder off like a toddler or an old person, nor will round up skills do much when enemies are spread out camping at range. Plus you have the no-death scenario to take into account aswell, so a frame appropriate for that is more beneficial since the objective can also be ressurected. So again, not the same as steel path defense.

[Zimzala]

2 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

So you'd prefer a world where the game never advances and things that disrupt other players' experiences never change?

That sounds like a horrible idea and I would hate playing that game. 

nevermind.

[0asu]

11 hours ago, Cybercobra2 said:

for the record for the people in this thread. i would like to refer to this thread:

which points out that like 95% of the negative reviews originate from china.

who don't even use the normal steam client and had to specificly go over to the normal steam client to leave these reviews.

its all just Chinese AFK farmers so upset that they cant AFK farm any more that they review-bombed the non china steam client version of warframe.

not normal players.

which also shows why a lot of people here were not running into the problems DE claims to have fixed, the problem was not the most prevalent in western servers.

That analysis is flawed as the person doesn't speak the language and was searching for terms not context.

Their data portrays a narrative that isn't what chinese players are actually saying. 

Also what makes western servers have "normal players"?

[Cybercobra2]

14 hours ago, 0asu said:

That analysis is flawed as the person doesn't speak the language and was searching for terms not context.

Their data portrays a narrative that isn't what chinese players are actually saying. 

Also what makes western servers have "normal players"?

when did i say anything about western servers being the ones with normal players?

if you read it again you might notice i said: "its chinese AFK farmers, not normal players" aka: AFK farmers are not normal players and according to that data said AFK farm salt is coming nearly exclusivity from china.. not that chinese players are not normal players.

[kyori]

I'm thinking perhaps these nerfs are handed down by the old team, as after Reb & Pablo (R&P) took over, there are many other negativity taken out of the game. I'd like to give it sometime to see how R&P turn things around, because I felt the old team(or certain individuals) forget that making game is for people to enjoy, not frustrated upon.

Also, as a company that only make 1 game in 9 years, they should very well know how their own game is. After 9 years of making only 1 game and they still need very much to get players' feedback is.... quite sad. But weirdly after that they still go ahead with what they want to do, then why survey at all.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2022-09-09 at 4:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

"AOE was being used to AFK with Wukong's clone, so nerf."

I want to know what was being farmed with AFK wukong that could actually damage DE in anyway.  Resources?  Credits?  They aren't tradeable, and neither is anything you build with them, so from DE's perspective it shouldn't matter if someone is farming at or away from their keyboard.  Even then, there are so many other issues that would arise from trusting the allied AI to protect you while you're not paying attention.  

You have to actually interact with the game to farm kuva survival, so I don't see how that would work.  Same thing for relics/prime parts.  I don't understand what was being automated.

[PrimalordialBob]

18 minutes ago, kyori said:

I'm thinking perhaps these nerfs are handed down by the old team, as after Reb & Pablo (R&P) took over, there are many other negativity taken out of the game. I'd like to give it sometime to see how R&P turn things around, because I felt the old team(or certain individuals) forget that making game is for people to enjoy, not frustrated upon.

Also, as a company that only make 1 game in 9 years, they should very well know how their own game is. After 9 years of making only 1 game and they still need very much to get players' feedback is.... quite sad. But weirdly after that they still go ahead with what they want to do, then why survey at all.

These nerfs came from those two. 

[_Anise_]

On 2022-09-09 at 9:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

cornered players into either using AOE weapons or crutching on Saryn

she isn't that good, her aoe takes time to ramp up, I think ember would be better

[0asu]

17 hours ago, Cybercobra2 said:

when did i say anything about western servers being the ones with normal players?

if you read it again you might notice i said: "its chinese AFK farmers, not normal players" aka: AFK farmers are not normal players and according to that data said AFK farm salt is coming nearly exclusivity from china.. not that chinese players are not normal players.

... but afk farmers have been normalized throughout the entirety this games hitstory.

We literally have eras of afk farms like vivergate, draco, turret mesa/ excal, all the many hallway farms, khora 3 auto lvling, ect. 

The only difference in servers are the players behind the kb/controller. They all follow the same trends. 

Your comment insinuated that western servers lack the afk farmers that china servers have thus being the reason for negative reviews being focused from them. 

So what makes western servers have "normal players"?

[General_Durandal]

On 2022-09-09 at 4:03 PM, PrimalordialBob said:

"AOE was being used to AFK with Wukong's clone, so nerf."

DE actually said this?

I thought they put in anti afk defenses,
like if a player presses no buttons for x minutes they can no longer het loot,
or if they do nothing for c minutes again their mission auto aborts.

I've had it trigger in SOLO mode,
while looking up how Zariman Angels spawn on the internet.
The mission randomly failed,
after I had already completed the adjectives and could leave.

[PrimalordialBob]

On 2022-09-14 at 10:38 AM, SakuyaJoeyy said:

You do notice ammo is been mentioned 10 times more than wukong right? 

From what I've heard, so long as wukong's 2 remain untouched, it really doesn't matter how the monkey is nerfed, Chinese players are also tired of monkeyframe simulator.

But the ammo change is kinda changing how the game is played, like the forum has been talking, AOE or not they now have to trade slots to include ammo mutation, giving up some damage; or have to run around gathering ammo; or spend resources making ammo pizza. The original flow of playing is forced to change, resulting in longer mission time and lower reward efficiency, that's what the backlash is about.

Also something is more or less ignored, there are more casual players than hardcore players especially among Chinese player due to long study or work time. Maybe western server player tend to have more casual time so the ammo change is more tolerable. For me, I work roughly 10-12 hour a day during weekday so I would have to limit the time spent on games but insist some very quality time spent. Sure it's good to see some challenge or difficulty for some player, most people  in their mid or late game would just do the daily 25 SE, weekly nightwave and log off. Forcing them to spend more time than they could afford is obviously, not welcomed.

 

Very good points

[RichardKam]

17小时前 , kyori 说:

I'm thinking perhaps these nerfs are handed down by the old team, as after Reb & Pablo (R&P) took over, there are many other negativity taken out of the game. I'd like to give it sometime to see how R&P turn things around, because I felt the old team(or certain individuals) forget that making game is for people to enjoy, not frustrated upon.

Also, as a company that only make 1 game in 9 years, they should very well know how their own game is. After 9 years of making only 1 game and they still need very much to get players' feedback is.... quite sad. But weirdly after that they still go ahead with what they want to do, then why survey at all.

Wow, I never knew that interacting with your customers and getting feedbacks should be considered sad and shameful. I learned something today, thanks.

[PrimalordialBob]

On 2022-09-16 at 2:00 AM, General_Durandal said:

DE actually said this?

I thought they pit in anti afk defenses,
like if a player presses no buttons for x minutes they can no longer het loot,
or if they do nothing for c minutes again their mission auto aborts.

I've had it trigger in SOLO mode,
while looking up how Zariman Angels spawn on the internet.
The mission randomly failed,
after I had already completed the adjectives and could leave.

I'm uncertain if DE said they nerfed AOE because of Wukong, but I know that's a point some of the anti-AOE crowd brings up; so I addressed it.

As for how effective afk wukong was, no idea. 

And yes, the steam reviews are pretty bad. As the title says, DE should take a hit

[Amolistic.]

On 2022-09-10 at 10:58 AM, Krisedge said:

Lolll As an AOE player, I know the mechanic of the game. Change gun aura to black color. And do you know you have options to lower the effect and turn off screen-shanking?

 

This update hurts a lot but I can adapt as I have some mods/arcane/builds to compensate and revert to the way I play. But it's not fun for me to constantly look for ammo and manage it efficiently. It's quite ok with Energized Munitions but do you really want everyone to helminth this shiet all build all warframe? 🤣

 

Even with Energized Munitions could barely covered AOE ammo usage in steelpath. Then what about who don't helminth this ability? 

......its literally the point of the update.

and how tf youre not having enough ammo with energizing munitions?

shooting at feet like normal, didnt you?

plus even you know to change the emissive to black, not everyone else would, its just only u.

so many aoe players love to set up bright flashy colors tbh. most of my games are filled with bright aoe colors tbh, and seeing other 3 ppl trying to snatch every single existence of enemy is kinda dumb imo, and it was boring at times if youre not fast enough since you cannot keep up the stacks with them, even with aoe, its like you just come here for shopping.

[Amolistic.]

12 minutes ago, PrimalordialBob said:

I'm uncertain if DE said they nerfed AOE because of Wukong, but I know that's a point some of the anti-AOE crowd brings up; so I addressed it.

As for how effective afk wukong was, no idea. 

And yes, the steam reviews are pretty bad. As the title says, DE should take a hit

china wukong players malding about wukong zarr nerfs. thats all.

[PrimalordialBob]

1 minute ago, Amolistic. said:

china wukong players malding about wukong zarr nerfs. thats all.

Please go be toxic elsewhere. 

[Amolistic.]

On 2022-09-12 at 11:11 PM, EdinaMonsoon said:

all of my weapons, cus they now all have 100% less ammo

just use scavenger aura and ammo mutation,

scavenger aura exists for a reason.

triple the ammo drop, no more ammo issues.

[Amolistic.]

Just now, PrimalordialBob said:

Please go be toxic elsewhere. 

huh? how tf im toxic?????? ok then

[Amolistic.]

1 minute ago, PrimalordialBob said:

Please go be toxic elsewhere. 

they were literally malding about it, and i just speak the truth i see.

tell me, hows dat toxic in any cases....

[SakuyaJoeyy]

1分钟前 , Amolistic. 说:

huh? how tf im toxic?????? ok then

not toxic, merely disregarding the fact it's not all wukong players and it's not even about wukong. I'd say just mild factual error, no big deal. 

[RichardKam]

20分钟前 , PrimalordialBob 说:

Please go be toxic elsewhere. 

Believe me, no matter how hard we try, we will never be as toxic as people screaming "go eat S#&$ go die DE f yourself stupid game" in simplified Chinese on steam review. 

[Amolistic.]

1 hour ago, SakuyaJoeyy said:

not toxic, merely disregarding the fact it's not all wukong players and it's not even about wukong. I'd say just mild factual error, no big deal. 

huh...im not trying to be toxic at all at the beginning as im not a toxic person to begin with, but once i go into the recent reviews, what i see is only china players review bombing with very harsh words (im malaysian chinese, i understand what they said though), feeling like they're just venting about their exploits that's so unhealthy for the game being fixed and they just completely mad about it, something like "狗DE" (means DE dog), "DE你妈死了“ (means DE you mom dead, is it?) already came from their mouth, what are you going to expect?

China players dont even use steam regularly, come here and leave such harsh words, wasnt they malding about it or its just their misinput?

I just give my perspective, dont have to be this aggressive towards me, to be honest.