Take a hit DE

[George_PPS]

8 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

As a matter of fact the update isn't nearly as apocolyptic as whoever said that and the leaving players hardly did any real damage.

And for sure the voice of whiny player community will die down before Warframe does.

 

Go check the ranking of the game. It’s sinking at the lowest ever after this terrible update. I have never seen it sank below 20 or even below 25 last time I checked. It used to be top 10 and fun. After rounds and rounds of nerfs to destroy players gears, the player base is also being purged. These fair reviews also will severely affect the player base long term. 
 

Have you heard of words of mouth? I convinced 3 friends to join and two more would be joining when cross platform dropped. I stopped actively inviting friends around 2019 after major nerfs and now I do not even ask any friends to join. Those two? They will not join the game either. Now all quit the game. 

[Marvelous_A]

2 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Go check the ranking of the game. It’s sinking at the lowest ever after this terrible update. I have never seen it sank below 20 or even below 25 last time I checked. It used to be top 10 and fun. After rounds and rounds of nerfs to destroy players gears, the player base is also being purged. These fair reviews also will severely affect the player base long term. 
 

Have you heard of words of mouth? I convinced 3 friends to join and two more would be joining when cross platform dropped. I stopped actively inviting friends around 2019 after major nerfs and now I do not even ask any friends to join. Those two? They will not join the game either. Now all quit the game. 

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

[YouDontCB_87]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

As a matter of fact the update isn't nearly as apocolyptic as whoever said that and the leaving players hardly did any real damage.

As far as I see the review, there were just some/few (not ALL) mentioning they are leaving for this update as per steam review.

This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam.

 

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

What's your argument in showing this? I don't see it validate your statement and didn't see any sentence in explaining data of the chart.

Let me show you the summary I pivoted out in excel (i.e. data grabbed from Warframe - Steam Chart):-

Sum of Avg. Players = 12 Months by Year; All divided by 12 months after sum up, except year 2022 which divided by 9 months. (ignore 2013 data cause I didn't look into it but direct divide 12)

Here's the real data, here's the real proof. As we all can clearly see that the Average Number of Warframe Players online (by year) dropped since highest in year 2018.

Please make sure that you know what you're doing, especially with your reputation in forum in spreading things you don't know well, cause players might take seriously on words/advice and believe it is true.

 

We are trying to raise up issue to warn/remind DE/devs about what's going on, I understand you don't find an issue with this, but please be more welcome and be constructive on other player's feedback/complaints, and let other players voice out their concerns/issues, instead of shutting them down cause you're experienced similar event before and felt like nothing's gonna change with these negative feedbacks pouring on Warframe Steam Review.

[AzureScion]

33 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

We are trying to raise up issue to warn/remind DE/devs about what's going on, I understand you don't find an issue with this, but please be more welcome and be constructive on other player's feedback/complaints, and let other players voice out their concerns/issues, instead of shutting them down cause you're experienced similar event before and felt like nothing's gonna change with these negative feedbacks pouring on Warframe Steam Review.

The way I see it is DE is purging the toxin from inside their bellies right now. They may take a heavy hit now but it will be healthier for the community going forward.

 

Plus showing concern and giving constructive feedback is different vs kids throwing tantrum and immaturely reviewbombing. Im sure they are still watching the effects of AoE changes, all they have to do is provide a legit feedback backed with actual facts, delivered with a calm and collective head. I know there are a lot of people out there discontent about AoE changes but decides to stick anyway, tries to adapt, and give proper feedback in hopes they will take them into consideration and I 100% understand them and even support their endeavor to some extent. But on the other hand there are people sending Pablo and Reb death threats, Devbashing, game bashing, reviewbombing threatening to leave, entitled to their money or time spent, and posting low quality complaints or vents without backed by an actual argument other than "DE sucks". This is the toxin I mentioned they wanted to get rid of.

 

There is a difference between

"DE, ammo changes may be a bit too much, heres how I suggest you can tone it down a bit"

versus posts like

"Attention! DE sucks game is dying Pablo go die I'm leaving the game after x hours or x money spent".

Plus most of these reviewbombs are bots anyway. China is notorious for bot harassing stuff they dont like. 

 

[YouDontCB_87]

28 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

The way I see it is DE is purging the toxin from inside their bellies right now. They may take a heavy hit now but it will be healthier for the community going forward.

 

Plus showing concern and giving constructive feedback is different vs kids throwing tantrum and immaturely reviewbombing. Im sure they are still watching the effects of AoE changes, all they have to do is provide a legit feedback backed with actual facts, delivered with a calm and collective head. I know there are a lot of people out there discontent about AoE changes but decides to stick anyway, tries to adapt, and give proper feedback in hopes they will take them into consideration and I 100% understand them and even support their endeavor to some extent. But on the other hand there are people sending Pablo and Reb death threats, Devbashing, game bashing, reviewbombing threatening to leave, entitled to their money or time spent, and posting low quality complaints or vents without backed by an actual argument other than "DE sucks". This is the toxin I mentioned they wanted to get rid of.

 

There is a difference between

"DE, ammo changes may be a bit too much, heres how I suggest you can tone it down a bit"

versus posts like

"Attention! DE sucks game is dying Pablo go die I'm leaving the game after x hours or x money spent".

Plus most of these reviewbombs are bots anyway. China is notorious for bot harassing stuff they dont like. 

Like you read about my replies on this post, I'm here to point out misconception and correct wrong information from spreading.

My 1st reply was to point out accusation towards me, and correct player's misconception.

Spoiler

4 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

On 2022-09-16 at 4:28 PM, Amolistic. said:

im malaysian chinese, i understand what they said though

Interesting reference without properly quoting me, good one. Thanks, I'm offended.

  Reveal hidden contents

Remark: In case some others might wonder, I'm the ONLY ONE mentioned that I'm Malaysian Chinese (explicitly in Forum) in voicing out for the Chinese feedback issue on steam in Forums, here's the search result of my whole forum search.

In case you're/other's having problem understanding my complete statement, here's my original argument.

On 2022-09-11 at 6:13 PM, YouDontCB_87 said:

I'm glad you pointed out that languages/words that's not in letter of the alphabet could shown in ******, which means it could be other languages (e.g. Japanese, Thais, Vietnamese, Burmese, etc.) as well, it's not fair for just Chinese players to take all the blame.

Me as Malaysian (nationality) Chinese (race) player who play English version (i.e. I understand both Chinese & English; I still see ****), I don't get annoyed by **** but rather I just ask "I can't read what you've wrote" or simply reply with "English please?". Some may not reply perhaps they can't read(?) or simply don't bother to reply, while some may reply with broken/proper English, just ask if you don't know what they're talking about. The point is they could speak you language and they could be nice as well.

Besides, this game has other languages too, which means the player base isn't just here to embrace English players only, at least be understanding that they don't speak your language.

 

All in all, I hope we as a player could really listen to and understand players' "suffering" and needs, instead of ridicule and label them as 'Chinese players'.

Expand  

The intention I was pointing this out, was for players to (1) avoid ONLY looking onto extreme voices, (2) look at the real needs via those who said & (3) being constructive instead of destructive.

 

On 2022-09-16 at 4:28 PM, Amolistic. said:

feeling like they're just venting about their exploits that's so unhealthy for the game being fixed and they just completely mad about it, something like "狗DE" (means DE dog), "DE你妈死了“ (means DE you mom dead, is it?) already came from their mouth, what are you going to expect?

China players dont even use steam regularly, come here and leave such harsh words, wasnt they malding about it or its just their misinput?

"China players dont even use steam regularly, come here and leave such harsh words, wasnt they malding about it or its just their misinput?"

Interesting maneuver, simply making statement without prove. Here's the prove in Steam. Think twice before you making prejudice on other groups that you don't even know but only looking into the extreme voices. (PS: Overall Warframe reviews in Chinese vs English on steam)

Summary: In overall 521,102 reviews on steam as of now, Chinese overall reviews has 110,376, which makes up around 1/5 of the overall reviews. In case you're saying "ALL leaving negative comments are Chinese", let's subtract all recent negative reviews with overall Chinese reviews, [110,376 - 13,494 = 96,882], and still made up to 18.59% [96,882/521,102] of the overall comment.

  Reveal hidden contents

When I'm ONLY selecting Chinese Language (regardless of Traditional/Simplified Chinese), yes I changed the whole steam language in setup, Chinese language has more than 100k which makes 1/5 of the overall comment.

When I'm ONLY selecting English, yes I changed the whole steam language in setup again, there is more than 200k,  which makes up 2/5 of the overall comment.

My default language setup both English + Chinese, overall joined up to 300k+.

I'm not here to blame you (I wished others reading this don't blame you as well), and I'm not ignoring the fact that Chinese's reviews are majority negatives and some with harsh words, but not ALL reviews written in this manner. By generalizing the extreme voices will only drown off those who making voices about their needs. 

Please make discussions that are constructive with less bias.

On 2022-09-16 at 4:28 PM, Amolistic. said:

huh...im not trying to be toxic at all at the beginning as im not a toxic person to begin with, but once i go into the recent reviews, what i see is only china players review bombing with very harsh words

Fun fact: Chinese cursing words (including it's dialects) has the most rude cursing I've ever come across, (compared to Malay & English) cursing people to "die" is just one of the normal routine in Chinese cursing, prove is those words you pointed out.

Disclaimer: I'm not here to normalize it and saying that tell other players to 'die' is ok (certainly English doesn't curse that harsh as Chinese language), yet I'm here to point out the facts and language differences.

On 2022-09-16 at 4:28 PM, Amolistic. said:

I just give my perspective, dont have to be this aggressive towards me, to be honest.

I'm ending my whole reply with your words: I just give my perspective, dont have to be this aggressive towards me, to be honest. Sound sarcastic?

While my second post was to point out the actual to correct wrong info from further spreading.

Spoiler

1 hour ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

As a matter of fact the update isn't nearly as apocolyptic as whoever said that and the leaving players hardly did any real damage.

As far as I see the review, there were just some/few (not ALL) mentioning they are leaving for this update as per steam review.

This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam.

 

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

Expand  

What's your argument in showing this? I don't see it validate your statement and didn't see any sentence in explaining data of the chart.

Let me show you the summary I pivoted out in excel (i.e. data grabbed from Warframe - Steam Chart):-

Sum of Avg. Players = 12 Months by Year; All divided by 12 months after sum up, except year 2022 which divided by 9 months. (ignore 2013 data cause I didn't look into it but direct divide 12)

Here's the real data, here's the real proof. As we all can clearly see that the Average Number of Warframe Players online (by year) dropped since highest in year 2018.

Please make sure that you know what you're doing, especially with your reputation in forum in spreading things you don't know well, cause players might take seriously on words/advice and believe it is true.

 

We are trying to raise up issue to warn/remind DE/devs about what's going on, I understand you don't find an issue with this, but please be more welcome and be constructive on other player's feedback/complaints, and let other players voice out their concerns/issues, instead of shutting them down cause you're experienced similar event before and felt like nothing's gonna change with these negative feedbacks pouring on Warframe Steam Review.

Just to let you know that 'I know what I'm doing here'.

 

28 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

But on the other hand there are people sending Pablo and Reb death threats, Devbashing, game bashing, reviewbombing threatening to leave, entitled to their money or time spent, and posting low quality complaints or vents without backed by an actual argument other than "DE sucks". This is the toxin I mentioned they wanted to get rid of.

Yes I know there are death treats and extreme reviews on steam, I didn't deny that.

1. Lets face the truth - What can we do about it? What can you do about it? Tell me.

2. What makes you think that this kind of voices can be 'get rid of'? You've said that they wanted to 'get rid of' it, but you still carrying these voices around, it is helping? While I'm here to tune off those voice and focus on the issue itself. Tell me, are you really helping it or further spreading it?

What I've seen here are people like you further spreading it, and believing you're doing something that helps, you don't, the fact is you're just further spreading it by mentioned it over and over. Your action was just contradicting with your words or your 'good intention' in the first place.

Just like if I need help from others, I won't like others to shut me down while walking around and telling other people that I'm having problem, rather I'd prefer to sit down and talk about the problem like an adult.

You can continue to choose to listen to those extreme voice over and over, that's your choice, but I choose to talk about the non-extreme one where they're still trying to talk about it.

If we can't do anything about it, then perhaps it's time to look at those actual needs.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

9 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

Yes I know there are death treats

Death treats? Like poison donuts? Mmm...donuts

10 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

1. Lets face the truth - What can we do about it? What can you do about it? Tell me

We can ignore the extremists. Anyone who sends threats to developers like that should be banned from gaming. No exceptions. There's constructive feedback and then there's whatever 90% of whatever people are doing now. Level headed people can look at these changes, adjust to them and give their feedback. People throwing a temper tantrum should be ignored 

16 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

2. What makes you think that this kind of voices can be 'get rid of'?

Cause it's happened in the past, several times after big changes there have been extremist complaining about various things, after some time they go away. This will be no different. 

 

[YouDontCB_87]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Death treats? Like poison donuts? Mmm...donuts

YUMMY!

 

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

We can ignore the extremists. Anyone who sends threats to developers like that should be banned from gaming. No exceptions. There's constructive feedback and then there's whatever 90% of whatever people are doing now. Level headed people can look at these changes, adjust to them and give their feedback. People throwing a temper tantrum should be ignored 

...

Cause it's happened in the past, several times after big changes there have been extremist complaining about various things, after some time they go away. This will be no different. 

That's the whole point, if there is no different, and they knew about it, why they keep mentioning it (*my brain hurts).

This is just as annoying sentence people said overtime, "I told you so", cause I don't see people appreciate/thanks to anyone after the moment he/she tell them "I told you so".

[AzureScion]

2 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

Lets face the truth - What can we do about it? What can you do about it? Tell me.

At this point we ought to just make fun of them while they still exist because they are clowns and a clown's main purpose is to entertain ;p

But yeah joking aside, there really aren't anything we can do except ignoring them. Still, awareness needs to be spread that most of this toxic reviews are false alarm so that peoplee are not overwhelmed by it. All the while also acknowledging DE's flaws and bringing the actual negative feedbacks to the spotlight. Nothing is wrong with having negative disposition towards this update - it is a pretty controversial one after all. 

[PollexMessier]

Imagine how much better of a place this game would be at right now if DE fixed self damage instead of removing it.

[Khalox]

27 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Imagine how much better of a place this game would be at right now if DE fixed self damage instead of removing it.

I think it's too late for that now, although I would support the idea. Once upon a time there were only precious few ogris users. :D and waaay less AoE weapons. It wouldn't have gotten so bad if they had left it alone.

 

[PollexMessier]

1 minute ago, Khalox said:

I think it's too late for that now, although I would support the idea. Once upon a time there were only precious few ogris users. :D and waaay less AoE weapons. It wouldn't have gotten so bad if they had left it alone.

It just needed a few tweaks like giving weapons a self damage stat that scaled with the health of the warframe using it and wasn't affected by mods, to get rid of the insta death issue and make it more balanced across frames with wildly different survivability. And removed collision with friendly entities so the game couldn't just decide to force you to hit yourself at random. Or god forbid a player jumping in front of you on propose.

But you're right. It's been gone too long. The biggest thing I hate about DE is they take way too damn long to fix problems like this. Especially when they caused the problem because they hate to admit when they make mistakes. Until the problem's been around so long and gotten so out of control they can't take it back anymore.

Removing self damage was probably the single worst decision DE ever made. Now all they can do to fix it is make the game worse through mass nerfs that inadvertently hit a ton of things that aren't part of the problem, and just piss off huge portions of their player base.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2022-09-10 at 6:53 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The new archon bosses are great for single target.

No, they are horrible for it actually. First few tries I brought a sniper - ran out of bullets immediately, so I dropped an ammo restore (hadn't used one of these in ages). It didn't even fill up my ammo reserves, I was right back to out of ammo after seconds!

The archon bosses are great for weapons that bypass DE's artificial DPS cap, and/or don't use ammo. Like the incarnon guns which do both.

[Marvelous_A]

7 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

As far as I see the review, there were just some/few (not ALL) mentioning they are leaving for this update as per steam review.

This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam.

 

What's your argument in showing this? I don't see it validate your statement and didn't see any sentence in explaining data of the chart.

Let me show you the summary I pivoted out in excel (i.e. data grabbed from Warframe - Steam Chart):-

Sum of Avg. Players = 12 Months by Year; All divided by 12 months after sum up, except year 2022 which divided by 9 months. (ignore 2013 data cause I didn't look into it but direct divide 12)

Here's the real data, here's the real proof. As we all can clearly see that the Average Number of Warframe Players online (by year) dropped since highest in year 2018.

Please make sure that you know what you're doing, especially with your reputation in forum in spreading things you don't know well, cause players might take seriously on words/advice and believe it is true.

 

We are trying to raise up issue to warn/remind DE/devs about what's going on, I understand you don't find an issue with this, but please be more welcome and be constructive on other player's feedback/complaints, and let other players voice out their concerns/issues, instead of shutting them down cause you're experienced similar event before and felt like nothing's gonna change with these negative feedbacks pouring on Warframe Steam Review.

Why are you showing yearly average player count while what I was talking wasn't about that at all though? 

 

Basically I wanted to say 2 things in your quoted reply:

-This ammo nerf isn't doing any dramatic effect on player counts on current Warframe. Does your data prove otherwise? Because Warframe player count is already dropping yearly. Can you prove the futher player count change is related to this specific update and not some other existing problems?

-Warframe always have players count spike during update and stuff. Then it drops after novelty wears off. Does your data prove otherwise? 

 

Your whole reply is basically a straw man. For real though, I think the ammo change is totally justified and some players request of reverting the change is totally unnecessary IMO.  And I'm happy to actually have my reputation in forum built up and recognized by someone. Salty tears never felt more delicious.

[Zimzala]

10 hours ago, George_PPS said:

Have you heard of words of mouth? I convinced 3 friends to join and two more would be joining when cross platform dropped. I stopped actively inviting friends around 2019 after major nerfs and now I do not even ask any friends to join. Those two? They will not join the game either. Now all quit the game. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Another bitter gamer that actually thinks the three people they managed to brainwash mean anything.

Hilarious.

I have seen this same crap on these and other game forums for decades, you have no clue.

Your Ego has no power here.

[YouDontCB_87]

2 Points to point out on my previous reply to you, relating on my replies and intentions (seems you're having difficulty to understand):-

Remark: Point 1 & 2 were marked down under hidden section below from my original post against your original words, to show my consistency in my replies returned in point A & B

Spoiler

9 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

Point 1:

10 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

As a matter of fact the update isn't nearly as apocolyptic as whoever said that and the leaving players hardly did any real damage.

As far as I see the review, there were just some/few (not ALL) mentioning they are leaving for this update as per steam review.

This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam.

Point 2:

9 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

10 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

Expand  

What's your argument in showing this? I don't see it validate your statement and didn't see any sentence in explaining data of the chart.

Let me show you the summary I pivoted out in excel (i.e. data grabbed from Warframe - Steam Chart):-

Sum of Avg. Players = 12 Months by Year; All divided by 12 months after sum up, except year 2022 which divided by 9 months. (ignore 2013 data cause I didn't look into it but direct divide 12)

Here's the real data, here's the real proof. As we all can clearly see that the Average Number of Warframe Players online (by year) dropped since highest in year 2018.

Please make sure that you know what you're doing, especially with your reputation in forum in spreading things you don't know well, cause players might take seriously on words/advice and believe it is true.

 

We are trying to raise up issue to warn/remind DE/devs about what's going on, I understand you don't find an issue with this, but please be more welcome and be constructive on other player's feedback/complaints, and let other players voice out their concerns/issues, instead of shutting them down cause you're experienced similar event before and felt like nothing's gonna change with these negative feedbacks pouring on Warframe Steam Review.

 

A. Consistent Ridicule Sarcastic Replies that bring no means of constructive to the community.

As far as I checked, your have 3 replies + 1 current reply under this post (total of 4), all of the post were just being salty and purely mocking over other players who wants to voice out their needs.

Relating to my point 1: "This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam."

Spoiler

Post 1:

On 2022-09-10 at 11:20 PM, Marvelous_A said:

I doubt Umbra's kidney can take this much salty tears.

Post 2:

10 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

As a matter of fact the update isn't nearly as apocolyptic as whoever said that and the leaving players hardly did any real damage.

And for sure the voice of whiny player community will die down before Warframe does.

Post 3:

10 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

Post 4:

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Why are you showing yearly average player count while what I was talking wasn't about that at all though? 

 

Basically I wanted to say 2 things in your quoted reply:

-This ammo nerf isn't doing any dramatic effect on player counts on current Warframe. Does your data prove otherwise? Because Warframe player count is already dropping yearly. Can you prove the futher player count change is related to this specific update and not some other existing problems?

-Warframe always have players count spike during update and stuff. Then it drops after novelty wears off. Does your data prove otherwise? 

 

Your whole reply is basically a straw man. For real though, I think the ammo change is totally justified and some players request of reverting the change is totally unnecessary IMO.  And I'm happy to actually have my reputation in forum built up and recognized by someone. Salty tears never felt more delicious.

 

B. (1) Meaningless Chart without Explanation + 2) Being Ignorance on players feedback

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Why are you showing yearly average player count while what I was talking wasn't about that at all though? 

Do you really having difficulty to understand words? Your reply below says that "players come and go" with just whole chart that with (1) no explanation on the data instead of just showing, what is the FACT you're talking about?

(2) my yearly chart reply to you was since 2018 players leave overtime, MEANS more and more players are leaving, being ignorance on the current issue will just make more and even more players leave the game.

10 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Fact is Warframe has always been a minority in F2P games. Warframe is never that good at player adhesion and most of its new players leave as quickly as they come during a big update. Everyone who's familiar with Warframe knows that, it's just how Warframe works.

 

 

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Basically I wanted to say 2 things in your quoted reply:

-This ammo nerf isn't doing any dramatic effect on player counts on current Warframe. Does your data prove otherwise? Because Warframe player count is already dropping yearly. Can you prove the futher player count change is related to this specific update and not some other existing problems?

-Warframe always have players count spike during update and stuff. Then it drops after novelty wears off. Does your data prove otherwise? 

Your whole reply is basically a straw man. For real though, I think the ammo change is totally justified and some players request of reverting the change is totally unnecessary IMO.  And I'm happy to actually have my reputation in forum built up and recognized by someone. Salty tears never felt more delicious.

So you're just suddenly make your argument out from no where (PS: you make no argument in this post prior to your previous 3 posts), and asking me for more to prove while avoiding my intention and my questions, that's a good red herring action, I'm not down for that. 

"Oh no, I got no points to fight back to this guy, better question him back to turn the whole conversation/attention, so people will forgot I didn't answer his question in the first place!"

All your actions just making me wonder who's the strawman and who's being more salty now? or should I say - Salty Strawman?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, they are horrible for it actually. First few tries I brought a sniper - ran out of bullets immediately, so I dropped an ammo restore (hadn't used one of these in ages). It didn't even fill up my ammo reserves, I was right back to out of ammo after seconds!

The archon bosses are great for weapons that bypass DE's artificial DPS cap, and/or don't use ammo. Like the incarnon guns which do both.

Maybe try not using one weapon the entire fight? Or use dispensary or hundreds of other options?

[Marvelous_A]

48 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

2 Points to point out on my previous reply to you, relating on my replies and intentions (seems you're having difficulty to understand):-

Remark: Point 1 & 2 were marked down under hidden section below from my original post against your original words, to show my consistency in my replies returned in point A & B

  Reveal hidden contents

Point 2:

 

A. Consistent Ridicule Sarcastic Replies that bring no means of constructive to the community.

As far as I checked, your have 3 replies + 1 current reply under this post (total of 4), all of the post were just being salty and purely mocking over other players who wants to voice out their needs.

Relating to my point 1: "This is just another statement/maneuver trying to drown off those asking the needs of changes with the voice of "I'm Quitting" among players who gives negative reviews on steam."

  Reveal hidden contents

Post 1:

Post 2:

Post 3:

Post 4:

 

B. (1) Meaningless Chart without Explanation + 2) Being Ignorance on players feedback

Do you really having difficulty to understand words? Your reply below says that "players come and go" with just whole chart that with (1) no explanation on the data instead of just showing, what is the FACT you're talking about?

(2) my yearly chart reply to you was since 2018 players leave overtime, MEANS more and more players are leaving, being ignorance on the current issue will just make more and even more players leave the game.

 

 

So you're just suddenly make your argument out from no where (PS: you make no argument in this post prior to your previous 3 posts), and asking me for more to prove while avoiding my intention and my questions, that's a good red herring action, I'm not down for that. 

"Oh no, I got no points to fight back to this guy, better question him back to turn the whole conversation/attention, so people will forgot I didn't answer his question in the first place!"

All your actions just making me wonder who's the strawman and who's being more salty now? or should I say - Salty Strawman?

Long reply though only thing I see is

1. No can prove

2. No can prove

 

Have it your way man. Of course a player who absolutely like the recent changes are gotta be..salty.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 horas, Traumtulpe dijo:

No, they are horrible for it actually. First few tries I brought a sniper - ran out of bullets immediately, so I dropped an ammo restore (hadn't used one of these in ages). It didn't even fill up my ammo reserves, I was right back to out of ammo after seconds!

The archon bosses are great for weapons that bypass DE's artificial DPS cap, and/or don't use ammo. Like the incarnon guns which do both.

Laetum in literally 30 seconds and the boss died... 

U can do like 200-400k  of damage for every shot with the normal form. 

[Traumtulpe]

12 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Laetum in literally 30 seconds and the boss died...

Tell me you can't read without telling me you can't read.

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

Here's the real data, here's the real proof. As we all can clearly see that the Average Number of Warframe Players online (by year) dropped since highest in year 2018.

That is highly oversimplifying Warframe though. I guess you arent aware of the abnormality WF is when it comes to player gains and losses compared to practically all other games? Increasing in active player count over a course of 5 years, as steep as WF does, or even at all, is not normal. What you tend to see is games doing the opposite, starting at the 2018 number and plummeting steep to the 2013 numbers.

Warframe still has more active players than it had for the first 4 years, even if it dropped after 2018. It isnt even a very steep drop between 2018 and now compared to what games usually lose after the first 6 months. Warframes simply took 9 years before arriving at a more normalized number of active players.

[YouDontCB_87]

27 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Long reply though only thing I see is

1. No can prove

2. No can prove

 

Have it your way man. Of course a player who absolutely like the recent changes are gotta be..salty.

"Oh no I can't answer your question, so let's avoid it further, and make him sounds like he's salty"

 

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That is highly oversimplifying Warframe though. I guess you arent aware of the abnormality WF is when it comes to player gains and losses compared to practically all other games?

I suppose the abnormalities in WF you refers to is gains and loses during updates while players comes back and go, we all know about this. Yet this is a short time specific over each and every updates. I'm talking about average player count drop by years, not drop by just update itself. What I wanna warn/remind was to pay attention to the numbers that drop over years, who cares about player gains and loses each updates when it's a proven fact. Who's the one oversimplifying now?

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Increasing in active player count over a course of 5 years, as steep as WF does, or even at all, is not normal. What you tend to see is games doing the opposite, starting at the 2018 number and plummeting steep to the 2013 numbers.

You're saying that warframe took 5 years from 2013 to 2018 increasing in active player count, and then decided take another 4 years from 2018 - 2022 just to move back to the number in 2017? Isn't player count drop over years an issue?

Meanwhile, I'm saying it's dropping since year 2018, where did you get the reference of I'm saying it will be plummeting steep to the 2013 numbers? Are you trying to strawman me or something?

I tend to see what happening in recent years which the number drop, while you're focusing on the initial 5 years where the player counts were only increasing to it's peak.

29 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Warframe still has more active players than it had for the first 4 years, even if it dropped after 2018. It isnt even a very steep drop between 2018 and now compared to what games usually lose after the first 6 months. Warframes simply took 9 years before arriving at a more normalized number of active players.

Your whole argument is just as strong as this game start with 2 players and peak has 10, now it has 5, so its an improvement, which we should ignore the fact that the average player count is dropping over years because the number is still higher than the average player count 2013.

[Zimzala]

17 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

... we should ignore the fact that the average player count is dropping over years ...

Yes, we should ignore that, because as players, we don't have any control over it and it's not our responsibility, so investing any emotional energy or other time into this does nothing.

Players on the game forum trying to call for doom and gloom for a game that is still profitable and successful because of some steam numbers falling over time, as all games do really, is just silly.

Why worry over things you can absolutely no control over changing?

Seems like more of a waste of time and energy than playing video games in the first place to me.

I think the term is 'concern trolling'.

Play the game, or don't.

Trying to dote over these numbers in some attempt to play Parent to DE or to influence the players is just silly.

[YouDontCB_87]

10 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Yes, we should ignore that, because as players, we don't have any control over it and it's not our responsibility, so investing any emotional energy or other time into this does nothing.

Players on the game forum trying to call for doom and gloom for a game that is still profitable and successful because of some steam numbers falling over time, as all games do really, is just silly.

Why worry over things you can absolutely no control over changing?

Seems like more of a waste of time and energy than playing video games in the first place to me.

I think the term is 'concern trolling'.

Play the game, or don't.

Trying to dote over these numbers in some attempt to play Parent to DE or to influence the players is just silly.

Yet you're trying to influence the others by advocate 'we should be ignorance even though its affect you'.

Quote: "to influence the players is just silly."

[Zimzala]

9 minutes ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

Yet you're trying to influence the others by advocate 'we should be ignorance even though its affect you'.

Quote: "to influence the players is just silly."

To try and influence the players with Steam numbers is silly.

If my words here can open the eyes of even one player to the fact that this is just a video game, and all this emotional angst and useless drama over the player numbers and rankings on Steam have no meaning in ones life, then sure, it may be silly of me to try, but I will anyway, have for a couple decades now, after watching a friend lose everything over getting to emotionally wrapped up in such things.

I will happily spar with anyone that thinks these numbers have any real value, beyond being fodder for gaming lemmings that think if there are fewer people playing a game than another game, that it 'means' something beyond the mood of humans that day. The extroverts that can only be caught playing the most 'popular' games are their own worst enemy already.

So, if you want to spend your emotional energy worrying over things you cannot control that you have no responsibility to alter, you go right ahead, it's your life, you should not pay me any attention, I am just another random gamer, bored on a Sunday while drinking my coffee, what do I know anyway, right?

I am sorry, however, that you cannot just relax and enjoy games, over trying to act as if you have to worry about them and proselytize to the players to share in that worry.

[----Legacy----]

5 hours ago, YouDontCB_87 said:

my yearly chart reply to you was since 2018 players leave overtime, MEANS more and more players are leaving, being ignorance on the current issue will just make more and even more players leave the game.

The issue with your chart is exactly that:

It shows player count dropping yearly since way before the ammo economy changes from Veilbreaker, because of that, said yearly player count drop can't be justified by the ammo economy changes as some other players are trying to imply, even more if we keep in mind that Veilbreaker was recently released in a year that's about to end, so no meaningful data is possible to have been obtained yet.

Your data only shows that warframe activity on steam peaked during 2018 and that's it.