I'm ganna lose confidence in warframe.

[Hypernaut1]

22 minutes ago, taiiat said:

thank you for Pinging me to repeat what i already said.

the Gameplay didn't get any better though. like i said.

To me it did. Now I can play multiple missions types to get what I want, even choose the difficulty (SP)... Instead of being stuck doing survival for 20 minutes. That's improved gameplay to me. 

I can also play random missions and often get lucky with a rare drop. 

[quxier]

43 minutes ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

1 hour ago, PaleShadows- said:

*snip

No clue as to why you liked the old Void Keys system because you fail to remember the lack of CHOICE! You did NOT get to choose what Prime part you wanted out of a Squad of 4 possible options that you do now.  Everyone got the SAME part, NO Choice!  Now you have the option to select any of your fellow squadmates rewards and that is arguably better than NO choice at all.  I detested Void Keys and that whole system and despite the RNG pain of Relics, I prefer having options than not.  Additionally I like being able to CHOOSE where I open my relics with Void Fissures.  Having to run the Void Tower Defense for hours on end was NOT a better system and doubtful you will find anyone that relishes that slog over and over and over to get the Prime Part that would ONLY drop from that one mission.  Void Tower Keys were awful and I do NOT miss them at all!

Solo player: choice? What choice. It's still hours of grind with uncommon forma. From what I hear old system weren't much better/worse.

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

If you are NOT running in a Squad of 4, all of which will be bringing the SAME Relic, then I have no sympathy for your plight.  They have a Recruit Chat Tab specific for this reason so take advantage of all the options available to better your chances of getting the reward you desire.  You are diminishing your chances significantly by  CHOOSING to play SOLO.  Warframe is a MULTIPLAYER game so use it to your advantage.   RNG in this game can be brutal but there are ways to minimize your pain, sometimes. 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

Warframe is not multiplier. There are solo-only missions. It's randomly punishes certain group of people (solo or squad). Playing solo is choice that they shouldn't ignore. You know, some people need that Pause button for some reasons.

And OP is still "lucky". I've run, I don't remember, ~26 solo radiants. I had only 1, yes 1, uncommon/rare part. The rest were common junk & ~5 forma. Lua Conjunction survival is almost how it should look like. Parts costs 50-75 and main blueprint 100-125 Lua Thrax plasm. That's 1~2 hours and you are sure you will get it. Voruna without single part drop would takes 8 hours. A lot? Sure, but you will get many stuffs during that period. With relics, you need specific relic, 100 void traces (probably 10 missions) and to void fissure. I'm rarely doing radiants unless I get them for free (e.g. ESO). Otherwise it's just so much easier to not do fissures to earn money.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

My record stands at 31 radiant relic for Soma Prime Stock. On the upside I gotten 3 Rihino Prime BP back to back.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Solo player: choice? What choice. It's still hours of grind with uncommon forma. From what I hear old system weren't much better/worse.

Warframe is not multiplier. There are solo-only missions. It's randomly punishes certain group of people (solo or squad). Playing solo is choice that they shouldn't ignore. You know, some people need that Pause button for some reasons.

And OP is still "lucky". I've run, I don't remember, ~26 solo radiants. I had only 1, yes 1, uncommon/rare part. The rest were common junk & ~5 forma. Lua Conjunction survival is almost how it should look like. Parts costs 50-75 and main blueprint 100-125 Lua Thrax plasm. That's 1~2 hours and you are sure you will get it. Voruna without single part drop would takes 8 hours. A lot? Sure, but you will get many stuffs during that period. With relics, you need specific relic, 100 void traces (probably 10 missions) and to void fissure. I'm rarely doing radiants unless I get them for free (e.g. ESO). Otherwise it's just so much easier to not do fissures to earn money.

If you didn't play back when Warframe had Tower Keys then you can't comment about something you did NOT experience.  It was exponentially worse in every way possible as there were NO CHOICES about anything..  You wanted an Ember Helmet, you did Void Defense over and over and over until it dropped. Everyone in the squad got exactly the same rewards.  I NEVER said the RNG is any kinder to you with Relics, but at least you can choose what mission you want to open relics and you can better your odds by having everyone in the squad run the same relic.  Yes there are more hoops to jump through with the Relic system but it is a far better RNG based system than we had with Tower Keys.  

I don't even know how to respond to your statement that Warframe is NOT multiplayer when you have 3 other people in your squad, I would not call that SOLO!  Some Quests are Solo yes, but the majority of the game is with other people in a squad of 4, which according to my math I learned in skool,  is NOT SOLO! Playing Solo is YOUR Choice but that means you are limiting your Choices regarding Rewards from Relics and lowering your chances of obtaining the Rewards you desire.  It is not rocket science and no fancy degree in statistics needed to realize having 4 choices for a reward will always be better than 1.  

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[quxier]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Solo player: choice? What choice. It's still hours of grind with uncommon forma. From what I hear old system weren't much better/worse.

Warframe is not multiplier. There are solo-only missions. It's randomly punishes certain group of people (solo or squad). Playing solo is choice that they shouldn't ignore. You know, some people need that Pause button for some reasons.

And OP is still "lucky". I've run, I don't remember, ~26 solo radiants. I had only 1, yes 1, uncommon/rare part. The rest were common junk & ~5 forma. Lua Conjunction survival is almost how it should look like. Parts costs 50-75 and main blueprint 100-125 Lua Thrax plasm. That's 1~2 hours and you are sure you will get it. Voruna without single part drop would takes 8 hours. A lot? Sure, but you will get many stuffs during that period. With relics, you need specific relic, 100 void traces (probably 10 missions) and to void fissure. I'm rarely doing radiants unless I get them for free (e.g. ESO). Otherwise it's just so much easier to not do fissures to earn money.

Expand  

If you didn't play back when Warframe had Tower Keys then you can't comment about something you did NOT experience.

I can compare what I experience now and info from other people. Sure, take it with grain of salt but I still can comment.

Quote

  It was exponentially worse in every way possible as there were NO CHOICES about anything..  You wanted an Ember Helmet, you did Void Defense over and over and over until it dropped. Everyone in the squad got exactly the same rewards.  I NEVER said the RNG is any kinder to you with Relics, but at least you can choose what mission you want to open relics and you can better your odds by having everyone in the squad run the same relic.  Yes there are more hoops to jump through with the Relic system but it is a far better RNG based system than we had with Tower Keys.  

I'm doing the same with relics but with different different missions. If I want to farm myself (not trade) rare parts I'm still wasting hours in few missions.

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

I don't even know how to respond to your statement that Warframe is NOT multiplayer when you have 3 other people in your squad, I would not call that SOLO!  Some Quests are Solo yes, but the majority of the game is with other people in a squad of 4, which according to my math I learned in skool,  is NOT SOLO!

Game don't have to be solo or multi. It can be "in between". That's what WF is. Some missions are solo. Some stuffs heavily encourage teams (RJ without crew, relics). The thing is you can finish most game solo. I've finished most of game content solo since ~2018 (removal of DX9). I've not beaten Orbs (one got bugged, one get me mad for surprise) and Eidolons (sounds bullet spongy but it's probably require some setup change but I don't feel like trying seeing it has 3 phases). Game is harder but I rarely feel like I had to "use" team.

Quote

Playing Solo is YOUR Choice but that means you are limiting your Choices regarding Rewards from Relics and lowering your chances of obtaining the Rewards you desire.  It is not rocket science and no fancy degree in statistics needed to realize having 4 choices for a reward will always be better than 1.  

Sure, it's my choice to play solo (freezes/lags) but it's not like recruiting is bullet proof. I've used to wait as well. Especially after time most people farmed those primes.

I get the math/probability. It still doesn't mean I cannot hate stuffs that makes game easier just for existing (3 people just need to bring radiant).

If difference were something like average 4 radshares vs max 10 solo/radshare then it would be fine. But when player doing same mission may need to do 10-20 missions more (from average 4) then something is wrong.

[MqToasty]

At 10% each, the odds of running through 20 Radiants without a single Rare drop is:

0.9^20 = 12%.
In other words, 1 in 8 players will be in your shoes.

Your luck is bad, but not nearly as bad as some of us on our worst streaks.  Good luck next time!

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

To me it did. Now I can play multiple missions types to get what I want, even choose the difficulty (SP)... Instead of being stuck doing survival for 20 minutes. That's improved gameplay to me. 

I can also play random missions and often get lucky with a rare drop. 

there's some increased variety on the spending of Keys, assuming that RNG hasn't given you Missions you don't want to play, aye.

getting Keys is still just as mind meltingly boring as before though. and that's where we have to spend the most time in this system.

[Prexades]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb PaleShadows-:

it was flawed on some aspect but its 10000 better than relics in other aspects, all it needed is a bit of a tweaking and improvement and it never ever touched EVER dude, they simply regret making in the first place because it was too rewarding.

   

No, it was not, as other mentioned. People sometimes scammed others for the keys they provided without ever using their own.  You were also bound to RNG system. Not to forget that not every part dropped from endless missions and some required burning your keys in mobile defense, exterminate or capture missions.

With the current system farming any prime part is easy. Use recruitment chat, get 4 people with the same relic together and it usually takes only between 1 and 3 runs to have to the part you need. Yes, there are people who get in the first and in some cases you might need more runs, but on average it evens out.

Tbh. this whole argument smells like BS to me, because when the relic system came prime part sellers complained they could no longer sell certain parts for hundreds of plat.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

3 hours ago, PaleShadows- said:

*Snip

 

Tower keys were boring and more of a slog than relics period, FULL STOP!  You watched a YouTube video and read a 2 sentence Wiki description on Tower Keys and suddenly you are an expert? Sorry, DUDE, but that doesn't qualify you to make any judgments about Tower Keys so please just stick to what you know and have played currently.   FYI: Tower Keys in your inventory were literally converted into Relics when they implemented the Relic Reward System.  The Tower Key process needs to remain a thing in the past like it is now.  Yes the Grind is frustrating at times with Relics but it is a far better method to obtain Rewards than what the Tower Keys provided.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

5 hours ago, PaleShadows- said:

this is the second time you doing this, you keep putting words into my mouth.

i never said it was rewarding, i said the relic system is ''faster'' because whoopty f doo you rolling the dice 4 times in one mission duh HOWEVER! its not rewarding like void keys were even with their flaws, i explained how both works already, void keys allow you to go in endless mission and ear prime parts no strings attached, no traces needed and ONLY ONE PERSON NEED A KEY and the rest of the party can share the rewards for FREE, those goes for all mission types the void had from capture to defense to the best of them all that crap on the relic system on its base form THE SABOTAGE VOID KEY, in term of rewards it was legendary,  i can understand why DE was eager to eradicate it as soon as possible as they realize what a big oppsie they did, in case you didn't know sobotage void rewarded you with THREE FREAKING PRIME PARTS from a single mission shared across all players in the party for finding the all the caches, strange right? a game mode that reward you more for playing the objective and exploring.

so in summary the old void is miles MILES better in term of rewards and even gameplay, all it needed is a bit of love or tweaking and it never get it, instead they did what they always do, they remove a whole system that didn't work in their favor and replace it with another that might seems good for the players at first glance but it actually the opposite.

the relics system does not allow you to get any prime parts unless you have a relic equipped, you can't share your relic like the old void, and you need to ''enhance it'' with traces so that is even more layer of work added on top that like the OP demonstrated DOES NOT FREAKING WORK like you expect it to, he chewed 20 radiant relics, that is like 2k traces and didn't get a single rare, a gigantic amount of work man, you need to farm 20 RELICS on top of 2k traces to have the pleasure of the rng slapping you in the face much like old void did but unlike relics you only needed ONE DAMN KEY and the rewards are given to you on the spot and endlessly, it also rewarded fully built forma, something relics never do.

i understand you, you're just a gotcha moment hunter, you have no interest in the truth or facts or actually looking beyond, you can't even do your own research, heck you didn't even argue any real points beside '' haha you hate relic system and you admit its rewarding  gotcha checkmate'', thats all i get from you putting words into my mouth for the sake of your narrative.

By the very definition of it being faster in earning the reward you want means it is more reward. Just because you do not find it rewarding, does not make it so. And if you bothered actually reading through the thread, you'd have seen one of the other reasons I said Void Keys were a problem, Key Leeching.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/547792-key-leechers-keyshares/

How Does Key Sharing Work? - Players helping Players - Warframe Forums

=Suggestion For De= Key/beacon Pool. - Art, Animation, & UI - Warframe Forums  (look at this, a Void Key change suggestion that is the physical description of Void Relics because of how bad Keyshare problems were)

To be honest ^ that is likely why we all need to equip a Void Relic to even get rewards because of Keyshare having too many leeches. On endless missions, it wasn't that big of a deal (assuming the specific key you were using can be earned in that endless, many needed irritating missions to earn them from such as , on anything that was not endless, it was a headache, and a good chance people were just using you to get parts they needed without sharing a key themselves or having one to share at all. 

For 20 rolls of a Void relic, it does not take me 4hr ~ 8hrs multiple days in a row to farm. You keep bypassing this point, repeatedly I might add, when it has been brought up. I farmed for five days, doing 2HR Defense runs aiming for Ember Prime Neuroptics. Let's just say at most, I farmed only 4hrs each time instead of spending all of my weekends on this hellscape of a farm. Ember Prime was on Rotation C, so every 20MIN I got a C reward. That's 12 Rewards a day... That's 60 after five days. Eff outta here with your, "20 rewards and no Rare and gotta farm Void Traces REEEE!!!" You're ignoring the fact you earn Void Traces at the same time as cracking your Relics, at the same time as potentially the very Relic you're cracking dropping in the mission you're in. You also have options of buying Void Relic packs from various vendors which didn't exist for Void Keys, along with Relics dropping far more often than Voids Keys in the olden days from the same sources.

You keep going on, and on, and on about how Void Keys could have just been improved to be better, guess what, they were, it's called Void Relics. It specifically tackles multiple problems that were had with Void Keys dropping only on specific rotations, or low rates, not having any control on the rewards we get, and tackling Void Keyshare leeching as Relic Leeching almost never happens at all to the point, I bet you never even knew that was a possible thing 'til I just said it now, yet every person who was around for Keyshare remembers the annoyance. 

Void Keys might, and I do mean might be a potential better option for solo players (with the odds I defined above, get real, you still have better chances with Relics) and only for solo players. 

 

Oh for Christ sake, I utterly forgot that rotations also meant you didn't ALWAYS get a Prime part back with Void Keys (stop, all four squadmates cracking open a Forma from their relics can happen, but not as likely as that mission you linked giving Fusion Cores). At the 40MIN mark where it should be rotation C, they got bloody Fusion Cores, the olden day version of Endo. Nice... Nice... Fusion Core again at 50min into the mission. Jesus, no wonder I forgot that was a thing. That hurts ones soul to get Endo out of a relic over a Forma. 

[(PSN)thowed]

Relics are cool but I also enjoyed tower keys.  Mind blowing I know.

[tabernacl]

all this argument between void keys and relics trying to compare the two. As someone who's played during the key era and now with relics their really isn't a better version. The junk drop rate is pretty much the same. So with keys, a squad would run with a key and rng would determine what you got. the grind wasn't too bad cuz all you had to do was complete the mission (positive- no trace farming, negative- no choice) you got what you got. With the relic system, you have to farm with or without unlocking relics for void traces, to power up your relic, to maximize your relic for rare (which at full power only slightly increases your chance) to run a mission and have to collect the little balls that drop from enemies (which sometimes you have to wait for enemies to get voided up) then finish and you might get the part you want or you can choose someone else's relic which will most likely be a relic with a diff drop table. 

With the key system the pool of primes in the game was much smaller so it was easier to get what you wanted cuz there was just a handful of stuff. Ppl saying the relic system is vastly greater is a bit laughable. The only positives from relics are more tileset choice and squad drop choice. 

I remember when they changed it the devs said players had 'void fatigue' which was a straight up lie. We just wanted another tile set for void defense besides the same one over and over again. The kicker- even after the change, void defense still has the same one tileset its had since before the change. I mean... lol 

also, Ember's helmet (or maybe the bp) dropped in derelict defense and had something like a .2% drop chance or lower. (which was a screw up by a certain dev/employee) Both systems are kind of garbage cuz like many other systems.. the devs control and manipulate it from their end. aka a faulty system which never gets touched after it's been implemented. 

[Prexades]

Please stay tuned for his next thread.

 

- Why coptering is a so much better movement system than bullet jumps.

[Hypernaut1]

40 minutes ago, PaleShadows- said:

 surviving 80mn survival was a benchmark for builds and how effective a new frame is, 

Hmmm....no thanks.

[Hypernaut1]

45 minutes ago, PaleShadows- said:

okay? do you enjoy cookie cutter state of the game now? is aoe and power creep enjoyable? what is the point of making strong builds other than seeing more numbers to fuel that addictive feeling of power fantasy? you gotta understand that 80 or 60mn did reward you a lot in tower keys old void, that is a prime part every 5mn no strings attached and for the cost of only 1 key usage, barely anything compare to it in the game today, it was a true end game and surviving and staying longer did matter because the more you do the more rotation c you hit and the less farming for keys you going to do after.

"Prime part every 5 minutes"? Revisionist nostalgia goggles. How about 50/50 prime part or Endo/forma and 80 minutes to not even get what you want. Host migration was still also a thing. Huge (pointless) gamble going for more than 20-30 minutes. 

I can get far more rewards in less time, and I can go public. No need to use recruit chat. 

A strong build back then would barely be able to do SP today. 

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, PaleShadows- said:

you not telling the whole truth, to be fair those issues you mentioned were a problem for a time, but they did fix them, they made it so any reward you get from void survival you will get to keep even if you disconnected, you gotta understand that its hard to balance that when you can just quit after rotation c if you didn't get what you want and then get to keep the tier key.

you also need to understand that the void system did fall from the sky or create itself, DE devs are the one who come up with it along side all the good and bad, it didn't chose to be stingy with the rewards or waste your time because it wanted to on its own, the devs are the one who pull the strings of this puppet, they can bend it to their will any way they want.

fact is they never did bend it or even attempt to touch it in favor of the players, they implemented flawed and kept it that way for a very very long time, they had the power to fix it and improve it in less than a week but they didn't want t that.

good for you, the thing is everyone prefer different things, what i am against however is the way the devs implement changes, instead of building and improving on already functioning and good system they chose instead to remove it and replace it with another system with its own sets of flaws, this is the problem i am pointing out here and you guys keep failing to respond to it.

its like everything is black and white for you guys, its like instead of cleaning and treating a wound in your arm you guys instead opt in to cut the the damn thing instead, this is very flawed way of doing it, unless ofc there is a profit for the devs in it in which case the void keys is indeed problematic for DE on bottom line side of things.

the game has changed a lot since then, a lot of power creep creeped in and its not fair to compare a system that was implemented since 8 years ago to 2022, the game was very different before so if you played in that era you don't go ''hurr durr i traveled to the future and your nova build is not surviving SP,''   

The new system IS the improvement. What are you going on about? 

It's better in about every way and if you want to go 80 minutes, you need to use recruit chat just like last time. The only difference is that you need a fresh key for each round, but now you also get to choose your reward each round instead of being stuck with 4 Endo/forma drops. 

 

[Hypernaut1]

13 minutes ago, PaleShadows- said:

nobody is refuting that, what we're discussing however is why de REFUSED to make those improvements to the old void? ..... WHY IN GOD NAME DIDN'T OLD VOID GET IT? WHY? how hard is it for you to understand that you don't have to chose this or that, ...

I'm not understanding you.

Why didn't they make improvements to the old void? You're mad that we don't farm exclusively in the void tileset? 

The void is still there. 

If your talking about prime part acquisition, they replaced needing keys with relics. There's no point in keeping keys because it was an inferior system. What do you mean "fuse" systems? You're not making any sense.  They took "keys", that gave you access to prime parts and made them "relics" that gives you access to prime parts. It's practically the same thing, but with improvements most players agree on. 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

6 hours ago, PaleShadows- said:

*Snip

Dude, it's time to stop talking about something that is a thing of the PAST, done, finished, over, etc.  You can dwell on how wonderful you THINK Tower Keys were all you want but, DE has created the Relic system and it's here to stay.  It's annoying and frustrating at times yes, but the Relic system is exponentially better than Tower keys and anyone who actually played during that era most likely will agree.  You can go on and on about whatever changes you WANT to make the world of Prime Parts easier to obtain, but it's just not gonna happen. Dude, pick up the shattered pieces of your life and move on. 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Paradoxity]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What do you mean "fuse" systems?

Best guess- And I can't be sure, because I'm not the cat you're quoting- would be to take the best parts of both systems, and put them together into a third one that's better than the sum of it's parts. Which is a valid argument- as with most things in WF, there's the core of a good system there, but it's buried under a lot of extra "Content" (AKA: Grind).

Best system I could think of, though, would be to take the endless nature of the old keys with rewards every cycle (10 waves? can't remember) and the pick-a-reward option that we've got from relics now. Maybe for every key in the mission, you'd get another option at the end of a wave? It'd reduce the grind of farming relics and upgrading them, while also avoiding the one reward a key the old keys suffered from. But I've also not had my morning coffee, am not at all invested in improving DE's systems, and am pretty sure that they'd reject that sort of thing out of hand anyways for being too generous. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Let me understand this correctly... those that enjoy Void Keys hate farming for single relics RNG?

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, PaleShadows- said:

you refuse to...

Yup. Shouldn't have touched this one.....

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, PaleShadows- said:

the catch however is you only get to pick ONE reward and you MUST HAVE A RELIC/KEY EQUIPPED TO GET ANY REWARD IN THE FIRST PLACE, this is a step down from the old void where you share your key between all party in the team and everyone get to share the reward without the need to have a key/relic in their inventory

But a lot of people would just take advantage of that and not submit a key themselves then just leave. This way they have to have a relic to get any prize, which is more fair than the old system.

Also never thought I'd be talking about void keys 5+ years after they've been removed.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

But a lot of people would just take advantage of that and not submit a key themselves then just leave. This way they have to have a relic to get any prize, which is more fair than the old system.

Also never thought I'd be talking about void keys 5+ years after they've been removed.

I never thought I'd be reading a post that was praising Tower Keys from someone (not you) who's never experienced them except through a YouTube video!  But here we are...
The Forums are a never ending source of entertainment.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

 

[iopqasdwer]

i didn't expect that many people to replies. my english is not that good to see everone's reply lol. Of course i know that it is easier to get good things in 4 players than by solo. but i just want to try and know "will I actually get what i deserve" so ...ya. maybe answer is no? huh.. idk :P

[White_Matter]

Relic system is a scam.