Is Wukong still on top? Warframe ranking discussion

[NecroPed]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

Wukong had high usage because he's Easy

you get high personal survivability, plus high maneuverability for speedrunning

Making him ideal for Lazy MniMax Farmers who want to blow through missions just for rewards but not really play.

the downside being, he contributes Nothing to team or objective support. -and despite claims of his Specter+Bramma being overpowered, no he doesn't really help out as a DPS Frame.*

 

*Ironically, this was used as the justification for the nerfing.

Personally I think a better approach instead of Nerfing Wukong, would be to give him more Support abilities to make him a team player and quell resentment.  -Imagine if Cloud Walking through allies healed them and removed status effects? or if Defy also created an Aura where his armor buff could be shared? people wouldn't be scapegoating him as a lazy afk-er if they could benefit too.

 

Oh yes I know the main reason he's used is because of how easy he is. But, I meant that it being given away could have resulted in even higher usage. 

[Raarsi]

All I do these days is SO and ESO, so a good number of Volts and Titanias with the occasional Wisp, Revenant, and Citrinne.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

20 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

Oh yes I know the main reason he's used is because of how easy he is. But, I meant that it being given away could have resulted in even higher usage. 

There was a theory that Wukong's high usage came from a bug that would count specters (and thus the clone) as another gear item you were using, meaning that using your clone would double the amount of Wukong you were using per mission. This would also explain high Wisp usage, as she's an incredibly popular specter pick. However, I don't remember this ever being confirmed.

[MqToasty]

2 hours ago, Lilybun said:

As a wisp player I'd love to be able to put down red and green motes quickly and easily without having to do the tap hold tap hold morse code casting. The only reason I use fused reservoir is to simplify the inputs even when I dont really need shock.

If DE allowed me to bind the individual motes to different keybinds (personally I'd run ctrl+1 for red, shift+1 for green and alt+1 for blue) I wouldn't have to run fused reservoirs for QoL and it would be far easier to not be disruptive in general on wisp. I already run minimum range but it hardly helps when one misinput morse code letter can force you and your team to wait 80s for shock mote to wear off before you enter a spy room.

With you there 100% on more options.  But even moreso, I would say other players receiving the motes should be given an option to shake off all buffs on a backflip like they can with Limbo's and Volt's.  Just let the players who do not like the motes drop them, and the players who like them keep them.

[RichardKam]

Because Wukong let you play the game without playing the game.

As to why people want to play the game without actually playing the game is another issue for discussion.

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

'petty' would be if I was asking for nerf just for spite because I don't like wisp players

that's not the case here, I'm asking for a nerf for Practical, Selfish reasons, so they don't inconvenience me as much.

Subtle, but important difference.

But are they really an issue to begin with? The only place where her shock mote is actually a hindrance is defense. And that really only applies in cases where the spread of the group is poor and you lack good AoE and people run around alot. Which in reality shouldnt happen very often unless the only thing you play is Hydron. I think Gloom and Nova have far more impact on gameplay if placed in the wrong hands. But it is the same deal there, one single game mode, although with those two things it also spills into arbitrations, which Shock Mote really doesnt since you can pick your spot for defending there.

[sunderthefirmament]

The nerfs didn’t touch his most powerful ability: Cloudwalker. I can only speak for myself, but my usage of Wukong remains unchanged. He’s my top pick for spies and rescues.  I put perspicacity on his 4 and usually keep the vape cloud augment on so I can hide the rescue target. 
 

If they had nerfed Cloudwalker, I would probably use Wukong a lot less. It’s the strongest ability in the game, in my opinion. 

[ImTeijirr]

Il y a 7 heures, RichardKam a dit :

Because Wukong let you play the game without playing the game.

As to why people want to play the game without actually playing the game is another issue for discussion.

Ok, what do you mean playing the game? To me, it's about feeling super powerful and killing hundred of steel path ennemies with powerful weapons. Wukong allows that easily without any frustration because he never dies. Isn't that playing the game?

You might be refering to the fact that most people only use him to speedrun relics or spy missions. To me, it's logical that people don't have infinite time to kill every ennemies in a mission, and rather speedrun it because the ennemies aren't strong, the map is always the same, and you'll get the same rewards anyway. Oh, and you have to replay the exact same mission many times.

Wukong is an extremely fast frame who doesn't die. It's a bit sad how much he gets S#&$ted on because people are so traumatized by the bramma abusers.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

2 hours ago, ImTeijirr said:

Ok, what do you mean playing the game? To me, it's about feeling super powerful and killing hundred of steel path ennemies with powerful weapons. Wukong allows that easily without any frustration because he never dies. Isn't that playing the game?

You might be refering to the fact that most people only use him to speedrun relics or spy missions. To me, it's logical that people don't have infinite time to kill every ennemies in a mission, and rather speedrun it because the ennemies aren't strong, the map is always the same, and you'll get the same rewards anyway. Oh, and you have to replay the exact same mission many times.

"Not playing the game" usually refers to people standing in one place, maybe slightly moving every few seconds, letting an ability do all the work for them. In linear missions, this refers to people skipping all of the enemies, doing the bare minimum objective, and skipping all the way to extraction. For Wukong specifically, this involves Celestial Twin doing all of the killing for you, or using Cloud Walker to skip through missions.

Sometimes, the problem is with the mode being able to be finished with zero engagement, sometimes the Warframe is the problem, and sometimes both are true. DE will almost always take the easier option of nerfing the ability instead of changing the entire game mode.

[Numerounius]

Now that Wukong prime is vaulted I'd say less likely he remains on top. Titania is probably who I expect to take the top spot next given she also the tennocon giveaway and has a generous questline to obtain the regular form but she is also vaulted so there is that as well. I think the chart Pablo showed off had her at the next spot after Wukong.

Wukong still really good based on what strengths he brings to the tables to players but I think what is really going to be pushing people away is all of the suggestions to other frames people make.

 

A popular YTer is known for riding what they think is a really popular "meta" frame also obtained from the dojo. So the new players can definitely shake up what the perception of the most used and top ranked frame. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

Personally I think a better approach instead of Nerfing Wukong, would be to give him more Support abilities to make him a team player and quell resentment.  -Imagine if Cloud Walking through allies healed them and removed status effects? or if Defy also created an Aura where his armor buff could be shared? people wouldn't be scapegoating him as a lazy afk-er if they could benefit too.

 

His augments for celestial twin and cloudwalker give him plenty of support abilities.

 

11 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Because Wukong let you play the game without playing the game.

As to why people want to play the game without actually playing the game is another issue for discussion.

True, but not directly what I was asking/talking about.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, XHADgaming said:

 

A popular YTer is known for riding what they think is a really popular "meta" frame also obtained from the dojo. So the new players can definitely shake up what the perception of the most used and top ranked frame. 

Sorry for asking but which YouTuber and frame? 

Like literally all of the dojo frames are super good, so it's hard to tell who you're talking about.

[Numerounius]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Sorry for asking but which YouTuber and frame? 

Like literally all of the dojo frames are super good, so it's hard to tell who you're talking about.

Brozime and his obsession with Nezha.

[Troll_Logic]

On 2023-03-13 at 7:32 AM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

So you know how Wukong Prime was that #1 Warframe in the usage charts where nothing else came close?

As long as the maps require 1km runs to the objective and 800m to extract, I'll play Wukong.  And those are favorable numbers.  I've been in maps where it's been 1.6km to the objective and another 1km to extract.  I love other warframes, but I'm not spending 4 minutes doing nothing but running. 

 

Make his cloudwalk his helminth ability and I'll play other frames.  

[Troll_Logic]

19 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Making him ideal for Lazy MniMax Farmers who want to blow through missions just for rewards but not really play.

"but not really run for four minutes"

[Troll_Logic]

7 hours ago, ImTeijirr said:

You might be refering to the fact that most people only use him to speedrun relics or spy missions.

It's not even the speedrunning excuse that people who hate wukong use because they do the exact same thing.  But instead of cloudwalk, they parkour past everything the entire mission to the objective then parkour past everything to extract.

Aren't these messages supposed to automerge?

[Mieo_Mio]

Don't see simian boy as much these days, but the odor is still lingering.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

His augments for celestial twin and cloudwalker give him plenty of support abilities.

 

 

I would personally agree with you.

but that is not the Public Sentiment.

People instead interpret his specter support and 'AFK leeching' and 'cheating'

*shrugs*

I always said, ?hows it any different from nuking with an ability? but people have double standards

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

As far as I’ve been concerned. He’s B tier until Iron Staff is returned to its pre-nerf state of power.

[PollexMessier]

It takes a long time for any piece of gear to drop off after a nerf cus a huge amount of players have invested a lot into them and likely have very little other things in that class of gear that they've invested as much into.

Plus not everyone's even going to be aware of the nerf if they don't keep up with news on the game. A lot of nerfs are done in such a way that if you're not keenly aware of what exactly was nerfed and why, you might notice your piece of gear that was nerfed is under preforming compared to how it use to but you're not necessarily going to know why or even if it's just your imagination. Many people will probably go on to continue using such gear without ever knowing it even changed to begin with.

And Wukong wasn't really nerfed much in any of the ways that mattered for why he's used so much. He was mostly just nerfed for AFK tactics specifically and is otherwise not much different than he use to be for people playing actively. I doubt his usage will significantly get hit unless they straight up change cloudwalker and celestial twin into different abilities.

[ImTeijirr]

Il y a 2 heures, PollexMessier a dit :

It takes a long time for any piece of gear to drop off after a nerf cus a huge amount of players have invested a lot into them and likely have very little other things in that class of gear that they've invested as much into.

Plus not everyone's even going to be aware of the nerf if they don't keep up with news on the game. A lot of nerfs are done in such a way that if you're not keenly aware of what exactly was nerfed and why, you might notice your piece of gear that was nerfed is under preforming compared to how it use to but you're not necessarily going to know why or even if it's just your imagination. Many people will probably go on to continue using such gear without ever knowing it even changed to begin with.

And Wukong wasn't really nerfed much in any of the ways that mattered for why he's used so much. He was mostly just nerfed for AFK tactics specifically and is otherwise not much different than he use to be for people playing actively. I doubt his usage will significantly get hit unless they straight up change cloudwalker and celestial twin into different abilities.

I'd be so happy if they reworked Celestial Twin and Iron Staff without touching Cloud Walker and Defy. The dream.