Quitting New war quest (and other probably)

[Hayrack]

Oh boy, Archon fights in New War were fun, the Archon Hunts you will unlock after Veilbreaker is an absolute design failure, utter trash that should have never made into the game.

Anyways, in NW you need to outlast them. Drifter has self heal and smoke screen abilities. You need to dodge alot and periodically self-heal. There is a phase where they revive Sentients. Kill them all but one, avoid him and dodge around while Archon is immobile, periodically healing yourself to full health.

Boreal: keep medium distance. When he envelops himself into the screech-buble, deploy smokescreen, step inside and fire at him to disrupt his self-heal.

Amar: dodge ALOT. He tends to charge, so try landing as many direct hits as possible. When he multiplies, the heal can be interrupted by hitting the copy that has knifes/swords. In certain tilesets, where fight takes place, he will multiply into long alleys - trying to find him is a waste of time, use this period to self heal. If you land many direct hits with Nataruk, you will overwhelm his self-heal periods.

Nira: seriously, don't bother.

Edited January 6 by Hayrack

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, ominumi said:

Can't do bullet jump as Drifter

He didn't say bullet jump. What he meant to say was "jump kick" -- this is where you press the crouch button AFTER a normal jump. It lets Drifters move faster in midair, and Warframes even get a damaging hitbox on their front foot when they do this, so it's definitely an intended mechanic

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

He didn't say bullet jump. What he meant to say was "jump kick" -- this is where you press the crouch button AFTER a normal jump. It lets Drifters move faster in midair, and Warframes even get a damaging hitbox on their front foot when they do this, so it's definitely an intended mechanic

'Jump Kick' is holding Crouch - you can do this too, but you start losing Velocity quickly-ish, so you'll generally move the fastest if you just tap Crouch immediately after Jumping.
but you may want to Hold sometimes when the situation is just right :)

Edited January 7 by taiiat

[Jeger_Wulfe]

I also had a great deal of trouble with that quest. It was ten times the irritation, because it locked me out of the rest of the game while I was figuring it out.

I ended up taking on Nira first, because I found it easiest. Mostly just peaking around corners and sniping. When my smokescreen was up, I cast it and stepped in. I seemed to be safe there and got in some damage. When my health got low, I ran until it was back up. I had my wife announce when my heal or smokescreen was up so I didn't have to watch and could focus on the action. (She's wonderful.)

I found Amar too hard, and didn't do him until I got my frame back.

Boreal was the one I did second. You have to save the smokescreen to stop her heals. You throw the grenade so the cloud crosses the edge of her scream. Then you can walk in through it, and get in a shot to stop her heal, and probably a couple more before she's active again. Hint: If she disappears, she probably teleported behind you.

God bless! Jeger.

[SDGDen]

9 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Warframe devs would say quit the game. Because you didn't read that or this. Because it is not beneficial for them. Because you are wrong.

except that's entirely not what they would say. that's simply something you made up because you're still salty they didn't give you an option to skip the quest.

 

OP, good on ya for asking for advice! best of luck with the archons, and if you struggle with one specifically: leave that one for last. you'll get to do it with your frame. 

i dont really have anything else to add that the others here havent said. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Hello there. 

My first bit of advice, would be, to try not give up. Its natural to also feel frustrated and annoyed by the Archon fights. If at all, possible. Try to take it a bit slowly, and casually, if you can. I suggest this, because, human brains, tend to learn and adapt better in certain situations, better than others. When we are frustrated and agitated, our ability to pick up on patterns can be impaired slightly. This is just general advice, can depend person to person as well. 

There are also three Archons. I would recommend trying Boreal or Amar first. Boreal's healing phase, involves creating a blueish bubble or energy sphere of sorts. You can interrupt this, with your smoke bomb ability. Sneak or roll into it, and damaging him will take him out of the heal. It can take some practice to getting this right, so maybe set some smaller goals for yourself? 

Amar has something similar with making duplicates of themselves. In this case, your mini map will show the actual threat. Attacking the duplicates just prolongs the fight, you want to identify the real one. There are a few ways to actually identify the real one, but my memory is a bit foggy at the moment. 

Generally though, people struggle against these Bosses, for specific reasons, and usually that means, there is specific advice we can give you to help. That you can recognise and identify the parts you struggle with, is actually a significant help, so thank you. Also how is your strafing shot? The ability to move counter to enemies? Trying to practice that is good. So first step? To identify when the Archons try to enter a heal phase. Second. Learn your counter attacks to interrupt (as mentioned above). Then its just a battle of attrition. You also have a Heal, just its on cool down. You want to slowly but surely do consistent damage against them, and avoid damage you take. You can interrupt their heal, and you should be able to use your heal more effectively than they can. Thereby eventually winning. 

If you need more tips, please don't hesitate to ask, or point out other parts that may be tricky. 

Doesn't always help everyone, but watching a video of someone else defeating the Archons, and seeing differences in how you play, could also help. I have watched different people struggle with Archons, and some for example, didn't know what strafing was. Another constantly took their camera or focus off the Archon (you usually want to keep them somewhere in view), stuff like that. 

In any case good luck as well, regardless of what you do. 

[Lakais]

I am not trying to be cruel or elitist here but I honestly can't understand how people who have played this game for any lenght of time have difficulties in Duviri and TNW and Zariman content. 
Movement is simpler, combat is simpler, more straightforward and generally just more personal. The only difficulty I saw is in that the difficulty comes more from mechanics and puzzle-solving. 

Again, in no way am I trying to degrade someone's opinion or experiences but I think the difficulties in the game a player experiences when met with new mechanics is a good indicator of any shortcomings in the skillbase and crutches the player has been leaning on to carry them through the game so far.
So, what I am saying is that it is a learning experience. We all have some kinds of bias as to how we want to experience the content of this game in particular but it can result in us falling into a particular method while sacrificing all the others. Heavy AoE and ability based players sacrifice movement mastery and basic gunplay skills when they specialize too much in those methods of combat. My personal shortcoming, even after 10 years of play is the opposite. My ability usage is abysmal and I don't even know how to properly do an AoE status weapon.

So my advice without the meme is: adabt, learn, overcome. And if that fails, I'm afraid this game might not be for you. No shame in that. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

2 hours ago, Lakais said:

I am not trying to be cruel or elitist here but I honestly can't understand how people who have played this game for any lenght of time have difficulties in Duviri and TNW and Zariman content

It kinda makes sense, Warframe is so stupidly easy that when players that don't play many games get even a bit of a difficulty they'll perform poorly.

Why do you think stuff like Wisp, Revenant and Inaros are often spotted in pubs they're all press a button and hold W.

Something I said in another thread applies to this too

On 2023-12-25 at 7:15 PM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

There's still plenty of people that struggle in steel path even with access to gear that could melt enemies, I guess knowing how to build a weapon requires a spec of skill maybe that's why there's many that go to YouTube instead of building something themselves.

 

[PrideB4TheFall]

On 2024-01-02 at 12:13 PM, bitbucket said:

It has been YEARS, give us an option to quit the New War...

I got to ask. Where are you on the quest? What is blocking progress for you? You didn't cite anything. Perhaps we can help?

Edited January 8 by PrideB4TheFall

[RichardKam]

This issue is purely a design oversight. If dev wants to make a quest that cannot be quitted, they must also implement a safety net mechanism such that players, any players, for whatever reasons, can get through it and get back to the main game.

The main game never asks you to use bow, or limit your movement, or force you to use drifter/operator for a boss fight, before and after TNW. Even in the Vor Prize they allowed you to choose between paris and braton when fighting lvl 1 Grineer. So why make this specific skillset a hard checkpoint in the entire game?

Unless somehow DE thought anyone who do not have such specific skillset at this particular point of game are not qualify to play anymore. But I do not think it was the case.

[RichardKam]

1分钟前 , Qriist 说:

A late game quest should be a hard checkpoint.

It is a statement. Not an argument. Beside, why checkpoint? What is the point of filtering players by that specific skillset that was useless before and after TNW? It was pointless.

Much more late game quests like Zariman or WitW or stuff have even lower skill requirement than TNW so apparently even DE disagree with you.

[Packetdancer]

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

A late game quest should be a hard checkpoint.

While I don't disagree, I think the difficulty isn't the actual issue here. To my mind, there's a difference between a checkpoint ("you must complete this to do anything that comes after it") and a prison ("you must complete this to do anything, at all, ever again, even the things you could previously do").

Truthfully, I suspect there would be less complaints about people finding it difficult if it were the former target than the latter; it's fine to have a quest block progression, but having it block the things you could do prior to the quest—to not provide an abort button—is maybe not the choice I'd make in a live service game.

I mean, I do think there are still design issues with the quest itself. Not from a raw difficulty standpoint, but more from a general game design standpoint; players tend to develop a feel over time that there's an unspoken "contract" with a game—an understanding of what the game expects from them, and what it will give in return—and to get unhappy when they feel that contract has been broken. And I think that some of why some folks don't like this quest is that they feel it broke that contract. Whether or not they're consciously aware of that. I just don’t think those are the actual issue.

(But you, perhaps better than anyone on the forum, are no doubt aware that I could go off at length on game design theory…)

[CephalonCarnage]

2 hours ago, Qriist said:

A late game quest should be a hard checkpoint.

A free-to-play game should have NO checkpoints. the whole point of Warframe as a buisness model is to have as many players as possible playing it. That's how they implicitly get their money. Locking anyone out, especially those who won't have the time or inclination to grind for everything and "git gud" is the dumbest move ever as those players are the ones most likely to spend money.

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2024-01-07 at 7:43 AM, SDGDen said:

except that's entirely not what they would say. that's simply something you made up because you're still salty they didn't give you an option to skip the quest

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

9 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

 

That has nothing to do with anything, the whole point of the skip was to get new players into the new content fast, they probably noticed players join when a big update drops but dip at certain point because they have to go through a bunch of stuff to get there.

That idea was scrapped and you know it, they achieved the same thing without the dumb skipping and paying by just removing the mastery rank requirements from the main quest line.

[Packetdancer]

45 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

A free-to-play game should have NO checkpoints.

I'm going to disagree with this part; I think it's perfectly fine for a game—free-to-play or otherwise—to have things you must achieve before you can do other things.

And this game has a lot of checkpoints as it is. You have to get a syndicate to rank 5 to get access to the rank 5 rep shop goods; you don't have everything available immediately. You need to get to the War Within before you can have access to amps. You can't do the quest "the Sacrifice" before you've even done the Second Dream. You can't access the Steel Path before you've done the base star chart.

There are a while bunch of things in this game which are gated on various checkpoints.

Checkpoints are not inherently a bad thing; used right, they open up a game at a pace that fits how a player plays that game. After all, a player who has finished the star chart is a lot more likely to be ready to hit up the Steel Path than someone who just downloaded the game and has their rank 0 Excalibur with no mods! (And if they did have access to every node the instant they first logged in, I think a lot of newer Tenno would be even more overwhelmed than they already sometimes are!)

I am going to guess you didn't necessarily mean the game should have no checkpoints, but rather that this particular quest may be a bad checkpoint (and yeah, games can certainly do without those). Which is a harder thing to define... but one that I think you can maybe make an argument for, and one I would even potentially agree with; as noted earlier, I don't think it's a difficult quest, objectively speaking, but from a game design standpoint I'm not sure it's a good checkpoint for a variety of reasons.

And I'm not convinced that any checkpoint—even a good one—in a live service game should block you from what you previously had access to.

Edited January 8 by Packetdancer

[Packetdancer]

33 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Personally, I absolutely loved the quest. Kahl and Veso weren't emo space ninjas, but they felt distinctly Warframe (with a capital W) all the same. I remember remarking to a buddy at the time that I really wanted wanted Veso's playstyle implemented in other future missions. Sadly, I anecdotedly see that section criticized more than the rest, which probably means there won't be any similar content planned in the near future.

For the record, I also really loved the quest. I thought it demonstrated how terrifyingly powerful the Tenno are—and, perhaps, how much we take that for granted—in a visceral and effective way.

But as I've said, I've come to think it may be a bad checkpoint on game design grounds. A checkpoint, to my mind, should either have the player demonstrate a grasp of the gameplay elements that have come before, or demonstrate a basic grasp of a new mechanic being introduced. Junctions and other star chart progression are an example of the former; the War Within teaching Operator abilities (Void form, Void sling, Transference) is an example of the second.

The thing is, up to that quest folks have a lot of freedom in how they play. You can be Rhino and face-tank most star chart damage. You can be zippy Nezha, immune to status effects and able to easily skate around to reposition on a battlefield. You can be Titania and be a tiny death pixie. Moreover, if you have trouble with boss mechanics, you can group up with someone who is better at them and run the mission together. And while people like you and I are likely to take all the toys and try playing with everything (because that is what we enjoy), not all players do. Some will find a single comfy thing and stick with that forever, and get their joy in the game from that... and generally the game is fine with letting them do so.

None of that is true for the New War.

You can make the argument that folks should hypothetically be able to do these things by the time you get to the New War, but the game has not generally asked them explicitly to do any of this stuff before. Not on the level the quest asks of them, anyway. And that's  where the idea of the contract between player and game comes in. Based on however many hours of playing Warframe, a player has developed an impression of how they are allowed to play the game. And for a non-zero number of players, this quest not only violates that perceived contract, but then also figuratively locks them in a room and demands they learn to play the game a different way on the spot before they'll be allowed to do anything else.

That's where I think it stumbles in terms of game design, if that makes sense.

Edited January 8 by Packetdancer

[CephalonCarnage]

9 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

I'm going to disagree with this part; I think it's perfectly fine for a game—free-to-play or otherwise—to have things you must achieve before you can do other things.

And this game has a lot of checkpoints as it is. You have to get a syndicate to rank 5 to get access to the rank 5 rep shop goods; you don't have everything available immediately. You need to get to the War Within before you can have access to amps. You can't do the quest "the Sacrifice" before you've even done the Second Dream. You can't access the Steel Path before you've done the base star chart.

There are a while bunch of things in this game which are gated on various checkpoints.

Checkpoints are not inherently a bad thing; used right, they open up a game at a pace that fits how a player plays that game. After all, a player who has finished the star chart is a lot more likely to be ready to hit up the Steel Path than someone who just downloaded the game and has their rank 0 Excalibur with no mods! (And if they did have access to every node the instant they first logged in, I think a lot of newer Tenno would be even more overwhelmed than they already sometimes are!)

I am going to guess you didn't necessarily mean the game should have no checkpoints, but rather that this particular quest may be a bad checkpoint (and yeah, games can certainly do without those). Which is a harder thing to define... but one that I think you can maybe make an argument for, and one I would even potentially agree with; as noted earlier, I don't think it's a difficult quest, objectively speaking, but from a game design standpoint I'm not sure it's a good checkpoint for a variety of reasons.

And I'm not convinced that any checkpoint—even a good one—in a live service game should block you from what you previously had access to.

I se. I was thinking of checkpoints in other terms - the concept is vague enough to refer to many aspects of "must do something to get something". However, in a free to play game, 99% of those checkpoints can be bypassed by paying. Need a necramech for orphix? 90 plat, checkpoint skipped. Need to do the starchart? Buy a top wepon with catalyst, buy the best mods, buy a riven... walk through everything. Not much in the way of skill or grind needed. And this is by design, nobody (else) gets hurt if you skip the grind to get to the end content.

It was certainly an annoying quest, with a couple of harder-than-they-should-have-been sections. And went on way too long, 2 stealth sections when 1 would have been enough, 2 archon fights, the necramech and RJ sections could have been cut and it would make no difference to the quest at all.

[HoustonDragon]

I just really want an option to un-Ballas the Fortuna setting. I miss the old song :(

[Packetdancer]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

However, in a free to play game, 99% of those checkpoints can be bypassed by paying. Need a necramech for orphix? 90 plat, checkpoint skipped. Need to do the starchart? Buy a top wepon with catalyst, buy the best mods, buy a riven... walk through everything. Not much in the way of skill or grind needed. And this is by design, nobody (else) gets hurt if you skip the grind to get to the end content.

I do think some folks might argue with that last bit about it not impacting anyone else, as I've certainly seen people complain about people trying to do endgame content with no clue what they're doing, but leaving that aside... 

You otherwise raise a valid point, and this maybe illustrates another way in which the quest violates the implied player contract: for many other obstacles, people can just pay plat to bypass it -- for good or ill -- but this quest has no such shortcut. I dunno if I like the idea that there should be a "pay plat to skip past this quest" option, but you could make a not-unreasonable argument that the lack of such is a deviation from the game's established patterns.

Regardless, for all that I liked the quest, I remain unconvinced that it's a good progress checkpoint as things stand.

[0bsi]

3 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

You otherwise raise a valid point, and this maybe illustrates another way in which the quest violates the implied player contract: for many other obstacles, people can just pay plat to bypass it -- for good or ill -- but this quest has no such shortcut. I dunno if I like the idea that there should be a "pay plat to skip past this quest" option, but you could make a not-unreasonable argument that the lack of such is a deviation from the game's established patterns.

Regardless, for all that I liked the quest, I remain unconvinced that it's a good progress checkpoint as things stand.

That's why I wasn't really against the idea of a pay plat to skip quests option - since pay to skip is an option in getting frames and weapons, so I don't really see it as being that much different.

 

I really think though that TNW quest should have been released in episodes, and not locked the player in.  Having a quit option and being in sections allows for doing the quest in smalller chunks, which would be more manageable for a lot of people I think.  At least not as daunting as knowing you're going into a 5+ hour mission that you have to finish before you can get back to your normal warframing.

Every time there was one of those loading screens that then put you into vastly different content -- could have instead been an end of mission and then the next one being a separate start.  IMHO it was already very jarring going through those loading screens into a completely different setting - the quest didn't flow very well in those points, so there's no reason why that couldn't have been an intermission point for players.  Which would have allowed for savegame process between each part, allow players to get out and do other things.

Yes it would have disrupted the story, but the "eternalism" card could have been played - or simply chalked off to being a game and sometimes you need to let players consume content in smaller chunks..... and if we can have other inconsistencies like Teshin still chatting to you even though he's a ghost, and Alad V's continual coming back from the dead.

 

Also..... if they had released TNW in separate quest episodes, they could have also released it over a series of months, and then stretched it out for players - which would have been good for DE (would seem like more content) as well as players (the ability to break it up and save progress).

[TeaHawk]

I remember being stuck for hours because I've changed my Railjack & Archwing key configuration. I've passed 2 hours trying to reach the Orokin Tower by scratching the walls.

Only to find the next day that I had to set a "Go UP" key for Railjack. The thing I've been riding sure no is a Railjack nor it is an Archwing. To say why the hell I'm supposed to guess which one it's using? Can't say I miss it. Can imagine some players being stuck for God only knows what happened whatever reason. So yeah, would be nice to have some escape path for these unlucky players. 

Edited January 9 by TeaHawk

[0bsi]

1 hour ago, TeaHawk said:

I remember being stuck for hours because I've changed my Railjack & Archwing key configuration. I've passed 2 hours trying to reach the Orokin Tower by scratching the walls.

Only to find the next day that I had to set a "Go UP" key for Railjack. The thing I've been riding sure no is a Railjack nor it is an Archwing. To say why the hell I'm supposed to guess which one it's using? Can't say I miss it. Can imagine some players being stuck for God only knows what happened whatever reason. So yeah, would be nice to have some escape path for these unlucky players. 

Pretty sure that was in veilbreaker?  I had that trouble with Kahl's jetpack in Veilbreaker until I searched here and found that solution.  But it obviously hadn't been an issue in TNW since I didn't know about that keybinding then.

[TeaHawk]

7 minutes ago, 0bsi said:

Pretty sure that was in veilbreaker?  I had that trouble with Kahl's jetpack in Veilbreaker until I searched here and found that solution.  But it obviously hadn't been an issue in TNW since I didn't know about that keybinding then.

It was the same key option in both as far as I remember. But since I've already struggled with this I knew where to look the second time.

[Wall--]

On 2024-01-07 at 2:28 AM, Lakais said:

I am not trying to be cruel or elitist here but I honestly can't understand how people who have played this game for any lenght of time have difficulties in Duviri and TNW and Zariman content. 

I was not asking you to understand how it would feel to play with anything that could possibly interfere with 100% mobility of limbs, fingers, etc or even understand how it would be to play with things much worse. All i was trying to ask that maybe the Warframe disability community had some better options like suspending a quest for a time if it was beyond reach and come back to it later without being locked out of the base game. Some disabled gamers have used games like Warframe, Destiny, Call of Duty and Battlefield as OT (Occupational Therapy).