This game needs actual endgame content.

[quxier]

On 2023-06-17 at 8:30 AM, Slayer-. said:

 

I seriously don't know how a group can go eight hours at a time, host migration must be crazy at times.

That's the point! People like to have some crazy gamble (RNG) and host migration is one close to "true randomness" (not faked by computer). Don't ask me why.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Probably gonna poke a hornets nest, but when the 'Top' Players in the game manages to reach the top with the use of things like Shield Gating Decaying Dragon Key exploit, I really don't think these are the people that should be catered to make the 'challenging content'.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, Cerikus said:

It's an MMO-LITE. Path of Exile is proudly advertised as MMO and it's basically the same gameplay structure as Warframe. Shared hubs, instances of coop gameplay, where you don't meet other players. It's true, that Warframe uses p2p structre, which does cause a lot of issues, but that doesn't really change the true nature of the game.

That isnt actually true, neither WF being an MMO-LITE or PoE being an MMO and proudly advertised as such. Clueless gaming sites and "journalists" refer to POE as an MMO, the truth is that it isnt and even the devs have taken a stance against the idea of calling it one. A stance they've had since 2010, a stance that also include quite strong words to describe their feeling towards getting called an MMO, such as "hate".

And that is a game that has persistant servers, which is something that WF doesnt even have. Ontop of that neither of the two have a persistant world, no way for sporadic player to player interaction on a massive scale and so on. All things required for a game to be an MMO in any shape or form. Even a game like Secret World Legends refuse to call itself an MMO even though it has persistant servers, a persistant world and sporadic player to player interaction in zones. The reason is because the limitations per zone are too small, so instead they go by the label "Shared World" game. But neither WF or PoE reach that point. Calling them MMOs is as far fetched as calling D3 an MMO.

MMOARPGs are games like Black Desert Online, Diablo Immortal, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter Online, ESO and the now dead Marvel Heroes, games that have or had all of the things mentioned. You can run into people anywhere at any time without having to actively invite people or form sessions to play together, and zones dont just close down if you or everyone else leaves them.

[Spectre-8]

On 2023-06-17 at 9:14 AM, 4thBro said:

And by this, I mean, content with max level enemies, and rewards for being able to do this type of content.

 

I don't know if this is going to sound elitist of me... (which is generally the preface of elitist comments, but here we go)

But I get triggered when I see random people sweeping through an Arbitration with an Arca Plasmor, against Grineer (and we all know damn well it's like, pure viral or something), and they have 95% damage done and probably have ZERO survivability... but it's okay. Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

 

I get triggered when it's like... how do I even put it...

I spend so much time planning out my Frames to be able to not just KILL max level armored Grineer, but also be able to handle Corpus (nullifiers) as they are a whole other obstacle type, then also be able to SURVIVE these two factions (and this is relevant because of orokin faction maps), and I look around and it's just like... ... ...

There is NOWHERE to utilize this effort that I put in.

I look around, and it's just Arca Plasmor users (not always literally, but this gun is my meme example) sweeping through a room of Grineer, because everything is so low level that it doesn't matter if you build poorly or plan poorly.

 

Even in the highest starting level content, it's just, "Okay, we're staying 5 minutes then extracting." Because... well, why not, I guess?

And even for those that WANT to fight max level challenging content, NOBODY wants to sit in a game for LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS just to get to it. And then, there's not even a reward for it???

It's just so bizarre. And so frustrating for those that want to be an upper-end gamer. IS THAT ELITIST TO SAY? Honestly... I don't think so. I know many people will see it as such, but I'd have that debate with them.

 

If you want to play casually, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

However, if you want to play on a higher level, the game IS stopping you from doing that. And that's my focus here.

 

If you wanna sweep through low level Grineer with a poor gun choice just because you like it and it makes you feel good, by all means, do that.

But why can't people like me build smart, build strong, and then go test it out and get rewarded if it works?

 

Just ugh, dude.

I dunno. Whatevs, lol. Cheers!

Maybe they are saving the content for Soulframe 🤡

[stormy505]

I think the current systems are actually pretty good tbh. SP as a benchmark for "end-game" higher-level content is fine. It scratches that itch of actually requiring me to put SOME thought into my builds if I want to solo content while still being attainable for the majority of the playerbase which is a big goal for DE.

SP circuit is also pretty good as the step above SP. Cause it rewards horizontal improvement in gear rather than vertical improvement.

I think where the difficulty curve could use some smoothing is in the in-between. Like normal star chart to SP there's kinda not too much? It's like sorties and arbies? Maybe you could count tridolons, orbs and railjack but I think they are sorta off shoots not exactly a progression of standard warframe gameplay.

[Grommile]

1 minute ago, stormy505 said:

I think where the difficulty curve could use some smoothing is in the in-between. Like normal star chart to SP there's kinda not too much? It's like sorties and arbies? Maybe you could count tridolons, orbs and railjack but I think they are sorta off shoots not exactly a progression of standard warframe gameplay.

Honestly, Arbitration, Archon Hunts, and Profit-Taker are harder than early SP.

[CephalonCarnage]

Players don't actually want challenging content to challenge them. They say they do, but in the end all they want is challenging content they can cheese through as before.

If they wanted a challenge that was fun, enjoyable and engaging, they'd create a new account and start over.

in many ways I think this is how DE should manage end-game, allow players to reset their account (keeping plat, slots and other purchases) give a very fancy bit of fashion to mark you out as someone who has done it all and is now doing it again and allow players to experience the progression all over again. You want a challenge, take on the infested with your MR5 vanilla frame without the kuva weapons, 10 forma and the primed mods. You remember, the days when a heavy gunner appeared and you thought "oh S#&$"

[Lucas_TKL]

Man, do you know why will never be a true late game in Warframe? 
Because a lot of Warframe Influencers WILL put a video in youtube named "how to do [late game content] easily"

And then, the content will not be a late game anymore xD that's what happened with Arbitration, Steel Path, Archons...

[--END--Rikutatis]

On 2023-06-17 at 5:51 AM, BR31 said:

Sp disruption level cap is 2.5 h. Void cascade is a bit over an hour. Sp curcuit is about 1-1 20. Your 8 hours are outdated. Also endurance runs now get the most benefit ever (there's some debate about the old keys, but it was much more stationary). Sp fissures take a bit of time to get the maximum benefit, you stack with other multipliers. Sp farming on release was a bit better, but that's about it.   And your average arca user doesn't do any damage without a proper setup and is permanently dead in those settings Shruge. 

Basically this ☝️

The only "endgame" in Warframe that withstood the test of time and extreme power creep was endurance runs. And WF is more friendly now to endurance runs than it's ever been in the past, even if we include the days of void keys. You can reach level cap in an hour or so with a competent squad. You can solo level cap in 3 or 4 hours even without being in sweaty tryhard mode, and just chilling in the mission. SP circuit has allowed even pubs to reach level cap runs when the stars align. 

Disruption, Void Cascade, Circuit, all of these are ideal for level cap runs and that extra dose of challenge. Depending on your loadout choices that challenge can be higher or lower. 

Trials used to be endgame, but those were all about puzzles and team coordination and almost zero combat. Eidolons were the closest DE got to endgame world bosses, and they were a nice mix of combat and team coordination at first, but power creep progressed to such a point, that eidolons are almost unrecognizable now compared to how they were at launch. Plus DE clearly backtracked after eidolons, making each new world boss easier than before, with less gear checks and more focused on puzzle mechanics. It's very hard for DE to design raids and world bosses as endgame with the extreme level of power creep we have. We can be immortal nonstop, CC the entire tile and deal billions of capped damage. Pablo has been doing a good job IMO designing game modes with these limitations, such as void cascade that has a lot to do with reaction time and movement in between frame and operator combat sections, managing to maintain a good level of challenge despite our power creep because of that. But there's only so much he can do. 

19 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Interesting, thank you for this info. I'll check out Void Cascade. (Only breezed through it quickly on my first clear, lol.)

Now, does this apply to all of the Zariman areas, by any chance?

It's mostly Void Cascade and Void Flood. They both reach level cap very fast if you're speedrunning it with a good squad. Armaggedon is a lot slower (but still not as slow as the classic 8 hour survival). 

[Silligoose]

21 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Exactly. 

The video game industry attracts a lot of morons and stupid individuals. The video game industry affects negatively the production of talented individuals. Yes this is a case by case argument that requires further analysis. In general the amount of next level dog feces on a bowl published by AAA developers is just staggering. The industry of cinematography became horse excrement. Star Wars, Predator, Halo series, MCU Franchise, Games of Thrones, Lord of the Rings series could be considered VHS dissected horse excrement up to E.T. levels. The same applies to video games such as 343i Halo Infinite and the abysmal launches of Cyberpunk 77 and Battlefield 2042. 

Stupid and morons ruins everything. These uncountable sets of lowlives destroys entire industries. Kathleen Kennedy and Bonnie Ross did irreparable damage to great franchises. Dumbass jackasses with lots of money ruins great works. These two in particular threw billions of dollars to waste. Even now there are rumors where Disney is selling these franchises because they are not making money. What happened? Stupid people took decisions. That's what happened. People forgot that writers matters. People forgot that generations of professors, intellectuals and specialists gave their lives for their crafts. 

I deeply hate morons and jackasses who paint themselves as lambs. These individuals are just thieves and opportunists who takes advantage of indigenous people. These individuals damaged the industry forever without the possibility of repair. It's sad because many industries are victimized by such outbreak. 

There certainly are individuals who dictate certain arts towards the wrong direction. It can be frustrating, especially when a franchise/title one enjoys gets the derp-treatment. I try to remain optimistic and feel luckily there are also those who can and do uplift a franchise/title/game as well, though it seems to be the minority.

21 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE doesnt care about it. Why? Because they are doing money with less. This is why I despise people who are satisfied with bread crumbs. I'm tempted to knock them out repeatedly and kick their skulls few times but that's not civilized, of course. Sometimes I'm tempted, believe me, sometimes I'm tempted. These players ruins games and throw entire franchises to the south. We can fight the good fight, if any, making people think. We can make changes if we teach people vote with their wallet properly. However that's a lost fight since the number of morons is uncountable. 

Should Warframe has endgame? Goose, we are too late for that. Way too late. We are heading towards the market of IOS phones. You exactly know what that means. 

It is another frustrating situation. I still have that little hope that somehow the situation improves, but realistically the probability of that happening is extremely small. As for Warframe, I'll just enjoy it for what it is. I do not believe the current team can elevate the game's late-game to the levels it should be to compliment the early-/midgame experience. Despite me believe this, I'll likely still create a thread or two in the future add to the myriad of voices out there concerning the game's direction and state.

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 hours ago, RafMatador22 said:

This is the big fact! in fact, I don't see anyone satisfied anywhere on the internet lately, I just hear dissatisfaction wherever I go.

I am actually really satisfied with the endgame of the game right now, a couple minor nitpicks like Duviri's randomizer, mainly because i hate random elements in any game, but that doesn't mean I am not satisfied, just because there is one or two things that you don't like doesn't mean you can't be contented with the entire project.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

There certainly are individuals who dictate certain arts towards the wrong direction. It can be frustrating, especially when a franchise/title one enjoys gets the derp-treatment. I try to remain optimistic and feel luckily there are also those who can and do uplift a franchise/title/game as well, though it seems to be the minority.

 

Yes, these are the ones that makes the difference. 

When dumbass twats and dimwitted stupid clueless dolts takes possession of important franchises the product becomes irrelevant and uninteresting. We've seen this in many important franchises. This is why education is important. This is why a high level of intellectualism is relevant. Coherence, consistency, delivery, critical thinking, engineering of quality control, architecture on the design, meaningful writing among many other disciplines are required for the authenticity of the product. 

With high wokeness came bankruptcy. Disney and Microsoft got a well deserved scoop of their own stupidity. Rich people are spasmodically dumb. These pretentious business people should never be in the industry. They are failures as entrepreneurs, business people and even human beings. I wonder how their brain makes them walk. It's just perplexing. They are at the level to those people who paint their hair pink. That's the level of stupidity we are talking here. The same people halts the progression of the experts who can really do something for franchises/titles and games. 

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

 

It is another frustrating situation. I still have that little hope that somehow the situation improves, but realistically the probability of that happening is extremely small. As for Warframe, I'll just enjoy it (Warframe) for what it is. I do not believe the current team can elevate the game's late-game to the levels it should be to compliment the early-/mid game experience. Despite me believe this, I'll likely still create a thread or two in the future add to the myriad of voices out there concerning the game's direction and state.

Pretty much. 

At this point I don't give two rat asses if Warframe dies/lives or get better/worse than what the game already is. Critiquing the developers or the people who are satisfied with bread crumbs will not change anything. I simply log in one hour fridays and that is it. I'm into other important games, hobbies that capture my attention. This game had its time.  Casual games will never be good, ever. The magic that Warframe had, died long time ago. I'm happy that it happened. Now people can wake up and see what the whole pachinko grinding machine actually is. 

There are great franchises out there such as Sucker Punch, Hello Games, Insomniac Games, Guerrilla Games, Kojima Productions, Santa Monica Studio and From Software that people are being aware. There are many good other franchises that they can sink their hours having a great time. These developers cares for quality, delivery, fun, polished code and replay value. These developers have honesty and consistency. They are responsible and committed to their art.  

Goose, the best advice is to NOT seek any type of endgame. Get other hobbies, be productive, play other games, get into chess, diversify your creativity. Don't sink long hours repeating the same thing expecting different outcomes. That's the definition of insanity. Warframe has that problem. It's a time mouse trap with lots of redundancy and slow technological development. Moderate the exposure time and if the developers decides to do something good then support them. 

That simple. 

[Felsagger]

7 hours ago, RafMatador22 said:

This is the big fact! in fact, I don't see anyone satisfied anywhere on the internet lately, I just hear dissatisfaction wherever I go.

Because the game already ran their last legs. It's time to let the game go. 

DE is into soulsframe. If it doesn't move well they will turn back towards their old cow (Warframe) and see if there is some milk left. In my humble opinion I think Warframe needs a change of developers. A good idea could be if the company sells the franchise to any other competent and capable development interested in continuing the project. DE gives me the impression that they are not enthusiastic with Warframe like they was before between 2014-2017. I think they are tired and anguished with the IP. I perceived that in their last dev streams. A good change of pace and rest is needed. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-06-16 at 11:14 PM, 4thBro said:

And by this, I mean, content with max level enemies, and rewards for being able to do this type of content.

 

I don't know if this is going to sound elitist of me... (which is generally the preface of elitist comments, but here we go)

But I get triggered when I see random people sweeping through an Arbitration with an Arca Plasmor, against Grineer (and we all know damn well it's like, pure viral or something), and they have 95% damage done and probably have ZERO survivability... but it's okay. Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

 

I get triggered when it's like... how do I even put it...

I spend so much time planning out my Frames to be able to not just KILL max level armored Grineer, but also be able to handle Corpus (nullifiers) as they are a whole other obstacle type, then also be able to SURVIVE these two factions (and this is relevant because of orokin faction maps), and I look around and it's just like... ... ...

There is NOWHERE to utilize this effort that I put in.

I look around, and it's just Arca Plasmor users (not always literally, but this gun is my meme example) sweeping through a room of Grineer, because everything is so low level that it doesn't matter if you build poorly or plan poorly.

 

Even in the highest starting level content, it's just, "Okay, we're staying 5 minutes then extracting." Because... well, why not, I guess?

And even for those that WANT to fight max level challenging content, NOBODY wants to sit in a game for LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS just to get to it. And then, there's not even a reward for it???

It's just so bizarre. And so frustrating for those that want to be an upper-end gamer. IS THAT ELITIST TO SAY? Honestly... I don't think so. I know many people will see it as such, but I'd have that debate with them.

 

If you want to play casually, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

However, if you want to play on a higher level, the game IS stopping you from doing that. And that's my focus here.

 

If you wanna sweep through low level Grineer with a poor gun choice just because you like it and it makes you feel good, by all means, do that.

But why can't people like me build smart, build strong, and then go test it out and get rewarded if it works?

 

Just ugh, dude.

I dunno. Whatevs, lol. Cheers!

I actually like some of your takes on this very tiring subject. You basically want to start at near max and see how long you can go against mixed factions like the corrupted, Narmer and the Circuit. I don't see an issue with this because a sample version of this already works in SP Circuit. In fact, even the reward structure is a good sample of what your ideal setup could be. Here's my idea:

Cephalon Simaris creates a new stress test type, using data from Teshin and the Undercroft. (Just the justification folks. Lol). Essentially, four modes are created that has one or two faction options represented  and selectable each week, similar to the Circuit reward selection menu.

Mode 1: Survival and Assassinate. This mode is an endless that starts at level SP 1000 but ramps up similar to SP Circuit. It's the same as SP survival except you also have featured faction bosses to deal with at certain thresholds...like, for the Corpus, a hyped up Sargent at the 15 minute mark, a friendly faction's Eximus squadron at 30 minutes, a Corpus special Lich at 45 minutes and then John Prodman at the hour mark. An hour is the max a player can go...for health reasons...but also to prolong the reward system. It would be INCREDIBLY stupid to allow all rewards to be gathered in one day so, let's not do that. Lastly, this would be the bronze level, meaning the rewards are either the lowest or will not have bonuses to them.

Mode 2: Defend and Excavate. Just as it says. Same rules as Mode 1 but the rewards would be completely different and have a bonus to them...the Silver tier. 

Mode 3: None Randomized Circuit. Exactly as it sounds, this is all of the mission types of the Circuit but now available for all factions and faction specific tilesets. You choose your arsenal and let fly. However, there are no decrees here and support items receive the SP timer treatment. Rewards are also silver tiered but a different set and bonuses.

Mode 4: Full SP Circuit 2.0. This is the randomized, decrees, the whole gamut except now all mixed factions, and sentients, are in. Decrees are only offered after every Circuit rotation so the power ramp up takes much longer. Lastly, this will be gold tier rewards with three, ultra exclusive items if mastered: 1) A guaranteed, 4 positive slotted riven that will instantly reveal and adapt to any weapon you apply it to. 2) An Umbra Vigor mod with Umbra forma, 3) Stalker Warframe blueprint.

Just having some fun with the concept but this would be a nice "I truly beat endgame" type of system IMO. 

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

The only "endgame" in Warframe that withstood the test of time and extreme power creep was endurance runs. 

That is the worst type of mechanics I ever saw in my entire life. That is the horse excrement that sunk this game into the deep sea. Fat numbers and 12 hours pressing the same clutch for abilities cycles is simply next level horse excrement. Games SHOULD never be treated as AFK's marathon runs. That's the worst type of game design and the laziest one. If endurance runs introduces progressive AI with better reaction time instead of being thicker tanks with more damage then we could start a formal conversation about endgame. 

But that manure has to end. It's simply pure BS of the highest degree. There are games that does better endurance runs that doesn't even take two hours. It's very important the following idea "It's not the number of hours that matters playing the game, it is how much fun you had playing throughout those hours". I think that type of game play must die forever. This is the biggest crutch of lazy design ever made in any video game. 

If DE wants to make endurance a thing that really provide content and fun then the following is needed as the VERY BASICS: 

1. Better AI having military accuracy. Now slow reacting and stupid dumb enemies. 

2. Strict organization of the enemy were newer weapons are introduced. Enemies will have perks and more that two to three weapons. 

4. At certain wave enemies will bring up heavies and attacks will become insanely more aggressive with the same damage and shields. 

5. Some bosses will enter the open season. 

6. No more than two hours. Rewards will be based on risk levels not RNG. Players may move picking the rewards but the risk of dying is there. Mechanical skill matters. 

 

If it doesn't bring ROI, I'm sure DE will discard it for sure.......

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 hours ago, Lucas_TKL said:

Man, do you know why will never be a true late game in Warframe? 
Because a lot of Warframe Influencers WILL put a video in youtube named "how to do [late game content] easily"

And then, the content will not be a late game anymore xD that's what happened with Arbitration, Steel Path, Archons...

This is the EXACT central problem. It is not hard to see the pattern of players who come to the forums screaming "This is too annoying (aka hard) and DE needs to fix it!", and then everything becomes "too easy" as soon as a content creator gives up the tactics. It especially doesn't help when EVERYTHING is handheld, from optimal weapon builds to frame build secrets (like shield gating). Asking devs to 0ush through this level of spoiled gaming is actually very disrespectful to them and I don't get why it's not called out on enough.

[Felsagger]

Late game content is pointless. 

 

I said this long time ago. The death of this game is the wrong decision of searching for new players while old players gets ignored. It's equally important the acquisition of players and the retention of old players. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Example: 

Gameplay based on intrinsics. 

I’m still not sure what I’m supposed to be looking for. I see fairly standard Titanfall 2 gameplay (a game series which I adore, mind you) where a somewhat-mediocre player moves and shoots and am reminded that Titanfall is slower-paced than Warframe. Is there AI military accuracy going on…?

[CephalonCarnage]

The AI in Warframe is good. If you didn;t run past nuking everything you'd see them hiding and taking cover. They shoot you from good positions and only a few charge towards you.

The trouble is two fold - one, you never notice this because theyr'e all dead before they have a chance to run the AI routines. two, even if you did, real-world military style manoevers depend on fire suppression, which only works if the target cares about being hit. In warframe, you can stand in front of them and tank those shots. The AI can be performing full fire-and-movement tactics and you still woulnd't even notice because you're standing there without a care for getting hit blasting them as they move to you.

If the enemy bullets took you down with 2 or three hits, you'd notice the AI tactics quite differently.

Perhaps the AI needs to update its combat though, its designed for combat, not terminate units coming at them. If should be a lot more grenades, smoke and claymore mines to take the warframes down as the enemy units run away from you. But I think you'd find that a lot less enjoyable of a game.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

The AI in Warframe is good. If you didn;t run past nuking everything you'd see them hiding and taking cover. They shoot you from good positions and only a few charge towards you.

The trouble is two fold - one, you never notice this because theyr'e all dead before they have a chance to run the AI routines. two, even if you did, real-world military style manoevers depend on fire suppression, which only works if the target cares about being hit. In warframe, you can stand in front of them and tank those shots. The AI can be performing full fire-and-movement tactics and you still woulnd't even notice because you're standing there without a care for getting hit blasting them as they move to you.

If the enemy bullets took you down with 2 or three hits, you'd notice the AI tactics quite differently.

Perhaps the AI needs to update its combat though, its designed for combat, not terminate units coming at them. If should be a lot more grenades, smoke and claymore mines to take the warframes down as the enemy units run away from you. But I think you'd find that a lot less enjoyable of a game.

And the players who run past wielding weapons built for higher-level content or stand in front of enemies loaded up with survival mods are either a.) not interested in AI gameplay in the first place since they’re typically chasing the easy and convenient grind, and will typically not even be interested in build/loadout variety while they eschew the options they earn unless they provide easier grind on their way to an L3 who then stands back and says “I got it all, now what?” in an almost tragic tale of the game having been bypassed in order to no longer play the game; or b.) they’re just not interested in a fight, often achieved by simply building for a certain level of content and then just taking it lower, which lessens the build variety as the player has to be perpetually offset to overpower the content, and the game gets even more restrictive with build variety the higher an offset player goes than it normally would.

I’m reminded of how often players (and myself at the start) will be like “Why not just make everything instantly dead?”, and the answer is “Because doing only that means the game’s boring as all hell and I’m not using the stuff I earned in the ways I want to (which can include instantly deading everything)”

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m still not sure what I’m supposed to be looking for. I see fairly standard Titanfall 2 gameplay (a game series which I adore, mind you) where a somewhat-mediocre player moves and shoots and am reminded that Titanfall is slower-paced than Warframe. Is there AI military accuracy going on…?

If you don't know then I can't explain it either. You have to play the game and understand what is going on. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

The AI in Warframe is good.

 

The A.I. is dumber than a flea under the influence of alcohol. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

The AI in Warframe is good. If you didn;t run past nuking everything you'd see them hiding and taking cover. They shoot you from good positions and only a few charge towards you.

The trouble is two fold - one, you never notice this because theyr'e all dead before they have a chance to run the AI routines. two, even if you did, real-world military style manoevers depend on fire suppression, which only works if the target cares about being hit. In warframe, you can stand in front of them and tank those shots. The AI can be performing full fire-and-movement tactics and you still woulnd't even notice because you're standing there without a care for getting hit blasting them as they move to you.

If the enemy bullets took you down with 2 or three hits, you'd notice the AI tactics quite differently.

Perhaps the AI needs to update its combat though, its designed for combat, not terminate units coming at them. If should be a lot more grenades, smoke and claymore mines to take the warframes down as the enemy units run away from you. But I think you'd find that a lot less enjoyable of a game.

Warframe actually had decent a.I. and varied enemy types. The problem is that enemy abilities are always nerfed if the community thinks they're too effective. That turns all unique enemy behavior and ability into looking like fodder. 

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Warframe actually had decent a.I. and varied enemy types. The problem is that enemy abilities are always nerfed if the community thinks they're too effective. That turns all unique enemy behavior and ability into looking like fodder. 

Completely wrong in so many levels. 

See the videos. 

The AI doesn't organize themselves, no sense of danger, no sense of preservation, no sense of position, no sense of preference, no sense of priority. The AI has zero awareness of the level. The AI Grineer expose themselves plugging the barrier. This happens without the frame DOING anything or using his abilities.

The AI in this game dates back PS 2 era. Even now we have Chat GTP, the current AI behavior in warframe is less than a pathetic joke.   

[(NSW)Greybones]

14 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If you don't know then I can't explain it either. You have to play the game and understand what is going on. 

I know how Titanfall 2 plays. I’m not familiar with that particular gamemode against pure AI opponents who are actively toned down to not destroy the player with their aimbot capabilities, since I typically played Attrition, but I’m not unfamiliar with TF2’s concepts of enemy variety and prioritisation, enemy spawnrates and location and behaviour like clustering or repositioning, player movement and survival, options available for how to approach a fight or deal with a situation, on-the-fly decision making to facilitate either a successful fight or escape, how to do basic things like aim, updating situational awareness of how the fight is going and where to be, the impact of level design on how a fight flows (I could go on and on about how Titanfall works, since I think Respawn have done a fairly-fantastic job of navigating the challenging balance decisions presented by mixing giant Titans and little Pilots).

But it’s not far-removed from something like Doom Eternal or what Warframe can do, and is actually often a little slower-paced despite the parkour and jumping around. Destiny has similar concepts, but there’s a decidedly strong sense of a front line due to not only pre-defined spawn locations and rates, but also due to the player’s slow-ass inability to move through a fight and having to push through, which makes more-tactical approaches for the enemy more viable (though they’re not entirely useless in games like Warframe or Titanfall, either)