Build own Warframe Feature

[(XBOX)Nephilim1495]

Hello dear devs, can you please integrate a feature that allows the player to create an own Warframe as with zaws and kitguns, this would be absolutely refreshing and phenomenal.

Please Please Please

[Myscho]

Nope

[(PSN)Sentiel]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Nephilim1495 said:

Hello dear devs, can you please integrate a feature that allows the player to create an own Warframe as with zaws and kitguns, this would be absolutely refreshing and phenomenal.

Please Please Please

I was hoping Xaku would allow us to do this when it was announced.

There were talks about modular Archwings some time ago. I wonder what happened with that. In any case, if DE does modular Archwing, modular Warframe should be technically possible.

Although I'm worried the choices and combinations of abilities will be severely limited to avoid being extremely overpowered or outright breaking the game.

[Pizzarugi]

If we could have a modular warframe, it would have to have unique abilities no other frame has, otherwise people will just make the most OP mishmash in the game.

Imagine the following ability kit:
1. Saryn's Spores
2. Revenant's Mesmer Skin
3. Ash's Shuriken or Styanax's Tharros Strike
4. Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Grendel's Nourish, or Xaku's Xata's Whisper

DE would never let us make this broken OP abomination.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Nephilim1495 said:

Hello dear devs, can you please integrate a feature that allows the player to create an own Warframe as with zaws and kitguns, this would be absolutely refreshing and phenomenal.

Please Please Please

There were talks about modular Archwings some time ago. I wonder what happened with that

We got Kates (or whatever it's called). However aside being "fancy" what purpose it would serve? Archwing is not exactly used so they would have to add content. And they wanted to even remove it (change into rj only).

1 hour ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

In any case, if DE does modular Archwing, modular Warframe should be technically possible.

I think we have already "ways" to do modular Frames (DE knows more or less how to do it). We can build modular gear (Zaws, kitguns, amps) with different stats/looks. We can change any of 4 abilities via Helminth. Augments works as well. They can modify those abilities per "original vs infused frame" (mostly nerfs afair).

 

There are however there are some problems with that.

As you mentioned you can have overpowered builds. This can be solved via limiting damage (total or with ability interactions) or using only certain abilities per slot (e.g. only 1 buff per frame like we have with Helminth buffs abilities).

There is probably problem with storage and data transmisions. With Helminth you have to store Config letter/name (e.g. A), infused ability and their number (e.g. infused as 4th ability), mods used and polarities. With DIY frame and 4 abilities (and potentially 5 from passive) you need 3 (4) more data to store. If they transfer all stuffs that's like 3x configs X 4 (5) abilities X 50 frames (just assume that's your average number) = 600 new data. Double it for 6 config slots.

Another problem (I think) is that we haven't yet seen passive change via external source. Voruna has real life changing but we don't have something like Helminth's passive change. And we cannot change abilities for exalted frames (e.g. cannot change Sevagoth's shadow abilities).

[(PSN)Sentiel]

10 minutes ago, quxier said:

We got Kates (or whatever it's called). However aside being "fancy" what purpose it would serve? Archwing is not exactly used so they would have to add content. And they wanted to even remove it (change into rj only).

I think we have already "ways" to do modular Frames (DE knows more or less how to do it). We can build modular gear (Zaws, kitguns, amps) with different stats/looks. We can change any of 4 abilities via Helminth. Augments works as well. They can modify those abilities per "original vs infused frame" (mostly nerfs afair).

 

There are however there are some problems with that.

As you mentioned you can have overpowered builds. This can be solved via limiting damage (total or with ability interactions) or using only certain abilities per slot (e.g. only 1 buff per frame like we have with Helminth buffs abilities).

There is probably problem with storage and data transmisions. With Helminth you have to store Config letter/name (e.g. A), infused ability and their number (e.g. infused as 4th ability), mods used and polarities. With DIY frame and 4 abilities (and potentially 5 from passive) you need 3 (4) more data to store. If they transfer all stuffs that's like 3x configs X 4 (5) abilities X 50 frames (just assume that's your average number) = 600 new data. Double it for 6 config slots.

Another problem (I think) is that we haven't yet seen passive change via external source. Voruna has real life changing but we don't have something like Helminth's passive change. And we cannot change abilities for exalted frames (e.g. cannot change Sevagoth's shadow abilities).

Changing passives would just mean everyon will use Wukong's. 🤣

No, for real, I would actually abuse the hell out of this system because a lot of frames have absolutely S#&$ passives, like Frost for example. 

 

Anyway, there's another, quite significant issue with having a modular Warframe. If you don't balance it extremely well, people won't have a reason to play other frames aside from fashion because this hypothetical frame could do anything and everything.

 

[Tiltskillet]

22 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Changing passives would just mean everyon will use Wukong's. 🤣

Wukong?  Shoot, I'm taking Garuda's 95% of the time.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

12 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Wukong?  Shoot, I'm taking Garuda's 95% of the time.

I'm putting Gyre's on Volt, Wisp's on Ivara, and Yarelli's on everyone else.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Another problem (I think) is that we haven't yet seen passive change via external source. Voruna has real life changing but we don't have something like Helminth's passive change. And we cannot change abilities for exalted frames (e.g. cannot change Sevagoth's shadow abilities).

Changing passives would just mean everyon will use Wukong's. 🤣

And what's Wukong passive? Not really, I had to check it because it was so boring that I haven't remember. I just remembered few free revives and some buffs. Or you mean that - 3 additional revives? Nah, there are better passives imho.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

No, for real, I would actually abuse the hell out of this system because a lot of frames have absolutely S#&$ passives, like Frost for example. 

Sure, some passives are weak objectively or subjectively. There would be probably group of abilities that are "better". However that's reason to make passives good.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Anyway, there's another, quite significant issue with having a modular Warframe. If you don't balance it extremely well, people won't have a reason to play other frames aside from fashion because this hypothetical frame could do anything and everything.

It's already happening but with enemy design and ability design.

When you make enemies that are not affected by lots of CC then such frame has much less reasons to be used.

When you make ability broken by default then people will pick other options more often. Inability to cast other abilities (e.g. Styanax/4 cannot cast any abilities, Grendel/Pulverize can at least cast his own abilities), ability having some weird limitation that DE refuses to fix/acknowledge (e.g. Kullervo/1st cannot teleport in certain situation and has cooldown not affected by Natural talent & co) and other makes such abilities less likely picked. Make all available options (abilities, gear etc) good enough - don't broke certain gear!.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Refreshing? Nope.

DE have completely blanked the idea, so far, it's apparently 'not on the table for discussion', which basically means they're not even going to talk about it internally. The Helminth system is the closest we're going to get.

The Helminth is also proof of exactly what would happen with any kind of 'build your own' frame; There would be one or two powerful abilities and a bunch of ones that are hardly, if ever, used, meaning that the frame might as well have been pre-made with just those more powerful abilities in the first place. On top of that, the few powerful abilities they made would then be nerfed immediately.

However...

A concept that's been floating around is a form of Orokin tech companion. This companion would be like any other, with standard weapon, certain standard functions, and some inter-changeable Precept mods for Abilities.

However, when you Transfer out of your Warframe, you can Transfer into the companion instead, just like a Necramech. This would 'empower' the companion and make the basic Abilities and passive functions into an actual suite of Abilities on the level of a Warframe.

That way Warframes stay as uniquely designed and powerful things, but you still get another build-your-own function that's optional to run around in during missions.

[Raarsi]

Helminth's still a thing, right?  Right?

Anyway, if a modular warframe were to exist, it'd need to start off as something absurdly basic--like basic to the point of making Excal look niche.  This frame would have to be a legit blank slate, with nothing currently on it (no skills, no abilities, basically Inaros without the heaps of HP).  Then from there, we'd probably have to farm some kind of specific content to get items that would give abilities or passive effects.

Knowing DE though, I'm sure it'd be on a weekly lockout as well as being gated behind some sort of content that doesn't really feel like the game we signed up for.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

The only downside is that DE would have to come up with 30-50 different abilities, probably limiting them to specific slots to avoid stacking the most powerful ones together. 

The upside, however, is that DE will be able to implement every scrapped ability that "lacked a theme."

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

However...

A concept that's been floating around is a form of Orokin tech companion. This companion would be like any other, with standard weapon, certain standard functions, and some inter-changeable Precept mods for Abilities.

However, when you Transfer out of your Warframe, you can Transfer into the companion instead, just like a Necramech. This would 'empower' the companion and make the basic Abilities and passive functions into an actual suite of Abilities on the level of a Warframe.

That way Warframes stay as uniquely designed and powerful things, but you still get another build-your-own function that's optional to run around in during missions.

That likely be just another floating box that couldn't do a thing. Look at high tech Hounds that... cannot disarm single enemy.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

That likely be just another floating box that couldn't do a thing. Look at high tech Hounds that... cannot disarm single enemy.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. The high tech thing floating around would be a standard companion (although watch for that, people are predicting the Pets 2.0 rework at TennoCon), but when you actually take over with the Operator?

Think of it less like a Sentinel and more like a Necramech that can also do a few things when it's not being controlled.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

3 hours ago, quxier said:

That likely be just another floating box that couldn't do a thing. Look at high tech Hounds that... cannot disarm single enemy.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. The high tech thing floating around would be a standard companion (although watch for that, people are predicting the Pets 2.0 rework at TennoCon), but when you actually take over with the Operator?

"Pew pew" machine that you control? If all it would do were basic things then it's waste of time.

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

Think of it less like a Sentinel and more like a Necramech that can also do a few things when it's not being controlled.

Mechs (when you fight them in Deimos) are great as single target enemy. In group of enemies we need "group oriented" characters.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Haha. The idea that there will be mass adoption of different ways to build a Warframe is funny.

You have seen what the community likes, right? Because it ain’t variety, and problems get invented to justify it

Edited August 13, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[quxier]

17 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Haha. The idea that there will be mass adoption of different ways to build a Warframe is funny.

You have seen what the community likes, right? Because it ain’t variety, and problems get invented to justify it

It's not that community likes only power. The problem is that DE makes challenge "gear check". When your variety option doesn't work you go with power. Simple as this.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, quxier said:

It's not that community likes only power. The problem is that DE makes challenge "gear check". When your variety option doesn't work you go with power. Simple as this.

The gear check part only goes so far, and the game knows it even if its players don’t. There is a point for every mission where a player has enough damage and survival and they can branch out into alternative options and ways to build, but I’ll be floored if I can imagine your standard Warframe power junkie ever thinking “My build is sorted, time to improve my playing” because they have no idea what that Enough point is and just focus on obliterating the problem through ever-fewer options the higher they go.

Did you know players are burning most of their mod slots and calling it a Default build? Default for what? Steel Path, the game mode decidedly designed without variety in mind that rewards a handful of things and is complained about not being rewarding enough? Seems a self-fulfilling situation to me

You introduce a Warframe crafter, and players aren’t going to be exploring its options, but chasing after The Best One because that chase is practically part of a Warframer’s identity

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's not that community likes only power. The problem is that DE makes challenge "gear check". When your variety option doesn't work you go with power. Simple as this.

The gear check part only goes so far, and the game knows it even if its players don’t. There is a point for every mission where a player has enough damage and survival and they can branch out into alternative options and ways to build, but I’ll be floored if I can imagine your standard Warframe power junkie ever thinking “My build is sorted, time to improve my playing” because they have no idea what that Enough point is and just focus on obliterating the problem through ever-fewer options the higher they go.

And where is that point? The more you go the farther that point goes. Sure, normal starchart has some freedom (that's why I like to play it) but SP or higher content? Yeah, The Point is set height enough so you don't have enough options.

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Did you know players are burning most of their mod slots and calling it a Default build?

That's the problem of mods and enemies. You have 100% armor strip that needs few mods already. That's easy to use most if not all mods' slots.

14 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Default for what? Steel Path, the game mode decidedly designed without variety in mind that rewards a handful of things and is complained about not being rewarding enough? Seems a self-fulfilling situation to me

SP weren't designed to be "harder" not "without variety". It's just bad implementation, that we see it more clearly in SP.

14 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You introduce a Warframe crafter, and players aren’t going to be exploring its options, but chasing after The Best One because that chase is practically part of a Warframer’s identity

And that the problem of game that player suffers. If you need to spend many hours, damage bullet sponges or take damage showers then you will gravitate towards optimal solutions, hence "power solution" would be used more often.

Make it reasonable and player will explore variety in game... assuming that there are good enough variety.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, quxier said:

And where is that point? The more you go the farther that point goes. Sure, normal starchart has some freedom (that's why I like to play it) but SP or higher content? Yeah, The Point is set height enough so you don't have enough options.

That's the problem of mods and enemies. You have 100% armor strip that needs few mods already. That's easy to use most if not all mods' slots.

SP weren't designed to be "harder" not "without variety". It's just bad implementation, that we see it more clearly in SP.

And that the problem of game that player suffers. If you need to spend many hours, damage bullet sponges or take damage showers then you will gravitate towards optimal solutions, hence "power solution" would be used more often.

Make it reasonable and player will explore variety in game... assuming that there are good enough variety.

Steel path is optional, you’re not forced into playing it for Ambassador components, you don’t need what it offers to kill Archons. It was introduced for players who would dress themselves in power, build variety and balance be damned, and then have nowhere to go with it.

The game in general requires ever more consideration for a player’s build the higher they go, which means sacrificing ever more just to keep up, and that Enough point doesn’t move with the player, it stays in the mission as identified by things like level range. Good thing the entire game isn’t squashed into the highest-level content. The sweet spot between build variety and difficulty is somewhere in the middle, and Steel Path takes the concept of “Sacrifice to keep up” and dials it up to 11 because by design it was meant to be the place to take those builds that were stuffed with power, not variety.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I doubt we'll see modular warframes, and Helminth already gives us some freedom to try out new powers.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Steel path is optional, you’re not forced into playing it for Ambassador components, you don’t need what it offers to kill Archons. It was introduced for players who would dress themselves in power, build variety and balance be damned, and then have nowhere to go with it.

If you are going with "optional" then except main quest & few things everything is optional. However you can see difference between missions in Quests and your normal missions.

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I doubt we'll see modular warframes, and Helminth already gives us some freedom to try out new powers.

Helminth is veeery mediocre (I cannot get good word for it, like "basic") system. It uses similar abilities, abilities has not many synergies (for more complex one), some abilities doesn't work etc.

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, quxier said:

If you are going with "optional" then except main quest & few things everything is optional. However you can see difference between missions in Quests and your normal missions.

The point about what’s optional is correct. We can comparatively quickly get to a stage where we have sufficient means just to complete whatever missions get thrown our way, and after that we’re earning alternative Warframes to use, weapons to wield, mods to customise how our gear works, and in general means to alter our gameplay while we jump around the various levels of content (the different content we’ve unlocked also provide another ingredient to throw into the mix of how we build and play and what the resulting gameplay ends up being). We’re not forced to endlessly chase power or specific setups just to engage with the game for the rewards that provide variety, and the game gives us plenty of opportunity to use the stuff we’ve earned along the way and invest in favourites to further what we can do with them

I’m not sure what you mean by the quests being different to missions; off the top of my head most quests are situated at around level 30-ish, which is around the level (give or take a few levels) that a completely modless loadout can handle which means that a) they’re accessible for new players and b) that’s every single mod slot free to use however for players who have been earning more ways to customise their gear. They’re a little more scripted, but they’re not typically that different to a standard mission (with some outliers like the big quests)

[kamisama85]

Pretty sure thats what Salad V wanted with the Zanuka Project, but even a fictional character in a power fantasy couldnt escape the fourth wall with DE intervention.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

 

I’m not sure what you mean by the quests being different to missions; off the top of my head most quests are situated at around level 30-ish, which is around the level (give or take a few levels) that a completely modless loadout can handle which means that a) they’re accessible for new players and b) that’s every single mod slot free to use however for players who have been earning more ways to customise their gear. They’re a little more scripted, but they’re not typically that different to a standard mission (with some outliers like the big quests)

Say Zariman quest and bounties. In quest you are just basically doing 1 run and you are free to go. Levels are much lower. Bounties can even go past 100 level. That's difference.

7 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

We can comparatively quickly get to a stage where we have sufficient means just to complete whatever missions get thrown our way

I'm not sure about details but every tenno with teammates don't have to have super strong setups. Except maybe Planet's specters everything can be cheesed via teammates. So we can have variety... however that variety is not helpful for our team. When playing solo it's even worse. So, when you want to play actively power is needed and variety is not always possible.