The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Meanwhile:

So #2 is right out the window from the get-go.

But if you want to talk "precedent", the precedent has been that deluxe skins like these are sold for plat and aren't time limited. Precedent does set expectations. These packs break that precedent.

Which is why I say DE shot themselves in the foot by not naming these as Prime accessories. They should have gone the Excalibur Prime route with this.

[kamisama85]

And how will you fight against multiple submissions by the same person? Your data will be tainted and incomplete.

DE can make that decision on their own without you. They've made it 10 years just in case you missed the memo today. If you think an expensive optional item will be the demise of this company, then you already had very little faith in this game and it's team.

[PublikDomain]

4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Which is why I say DE shot themselves in the foot by not naming these as Prime accessories. They should have gone the Excalibur Prime route with this.

Even if they called them Prime Accessories, a Prime Accessories pack that never comes back breaks that same precedent. Prime Accessories come back, these never will if DE doesn't change them. Doing another Excalibur Prime also breaks the precedent that he was the last time they'd do something like that.

Edit: Nevermind that the non-skin contents like the Accolade would piss people off no matter what. This:

Is going to be yucky no matter how it's painted, because having the only way to show that you're a "Ten Year Supporter" being to shell out cash completely ignores all the ways people have actually supported the game. I just bought a $180 artbook but I'm not supporting the game because I haven't paid enough to show it? It's gross.

Edited August 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Tyfyter2002]

2 minutes ago, trst said:

You know that companies do have access to their own income records, right? DE will know if it actually impacts their income or not without players attempting to self report their choices.

Financial records don't contain a purchases that would have been made but weren't, they can compare the rate of income before and after the change, but that will always fluctuate, the purpose of this tracker is to remove all doubt it can as to the lower bounds of lost income.

[Listless]

 I've seen a comment on a similar thread saying that mentioned

2 hours ago, Testostzzet said:

Players set up for a "celebration" of Warframe that then come face-to-face with an irrationally high bill.

Yes, the price is nuts. Yes, the packs are set up in a semi-predatory fashion. Yes, the FOMO sucks. But the crux of this is the communication issue wrapping all of that up into a neat bundle of "bad feels."

Honestly this completely ruined the tennocon vibes for me. If they dropped this skin set instead as 'Duviri Celebration Set' and released it along with Duviri (ignoring how it's not Duviri themed) it would have been something I simply ignored. I've also ignored other overpriced supporter packs that were FOMO, though this one hurts the most because I actually quite like the skins and yes the brand new attachments that go into the brand new attachment slots

This though, just feels slimy. It's them trying to sell a bad value and dress it up in the nicest corpo speak they can figure out. Talking about 'thanking the players' and 'we appreciate you' and then dropping a big predatory monetization FOMO pack.  And this coming from a game that has the corpus faction and jokes about corpo speak like grofit

So...they chose the "live long enough to see yourself become the villain" option then?

 

[PublikDomain]

21 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Yeah if it was made clear this would be available later like Prime Accessories sometimes are, I don't think it would be getting near the same amount of heat.

It was made clear that they absolutely will not be available later. They took the time to spell that out specifically in the FAQ.

[NecroPed]

10 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

Anneversary celebration items should p[robably be free lmao. Nevertheless, you could also buy them just to support DE. But I see that logic going a little too far here. 

I'm happy to support DE (Regular spender + founder), but I think this particular case is really terrible. They're putting non exclusive, regularly available items that not everyones going to even want in a bundle with exclusive items that are never coming back, it feels wrong for them to do it this way. If they were to simply just remove regal aya from the bundles and price them accordingly, then the bundles are 10000x better already in my opinion and I would gladly buy it. As it is now if I do purchase it, I'm going to be doing so with great displeasure and a negative steam review because I just think they shouldn't do things this way, because if I'm being honest I find these kind of bundles disgusting and anti consumer. 

[MirageKnight]

This really left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd expect this kind of predatory / greedy behavior from Activision / Blizzard...not DE.

Sad thing is that Warframe is largely considered to be a great example of FTP done right.

[Tyfyter2002]

1 minute ago, kamisama85 said:

And how will you fight against multiple submissions by the same person? Your data will be tainted and incomplete.

DE can make that decision on their own without you. They've made it 10 years just in case you missed the memo today. If you think an expensive optional item will be the demise of this company, then you already had very little faith in this game and it's team.

It is impossible to prevent false submissions without offering a purchase of "nothing, but it tells DE you would've spent money on them".

Quote

then you already had very little faith in this game and it's team.

I had greater faith in this game and its team than in any others except Re-Logic and Larian Studios, for the same reason many others did: DE has a history of not doing things like this; It doesn't take some grand reason to lose faith in a studio, just the loss of the reason you had any to begin with.

[NecroPed]

4 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Sad thing is that Warframe is largely considered to be a great example of FTP done right.

That's the thing that gets me the most. I'm a regular spender and founder so I'm clearly happy to support DE, but this is one I don't want to support. And this kills warframe as an example of F2P done right for me. 

[Marvelous_A]

I support you but honestly even without any Aya and Platinum I doubt I'd pay for it. Paying real money for digital cosmetics is just dumb, and Tennogen is already a cash-grab as it is now. I mean you can get Armored Core 6 for $60 FFS...

[ShogunGunshow]

24 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

That's the thing that gets me the most. I'm a regular spender and founder so I'm clearly happy to support DE, but this is one I don't want to support. And this kills warframe as an example of F2P done right for me. 

I've brought it up in other threads already, but I'll always remember the decision they made around the genetic code rerolling. They noticed some people were spending ridiculous amounts of plat on the genetic codes, and realized that they had essentially created an in-game slot machine. This is in an era when loot boxes were ALL the rage, shoveled into every game. 

What did DE do? They quickly made a change to take the real money aspect out of the equation, and killed the slot machine. 

I think that was THE moment when I realized I was in it for the long haul with DE. Without prompting from the community, they made the ethical choice, and treated their customers as more than just floating wallets. From that moment on, despite some of their slips, I've loved them. Even after the whole Aya thing, though that made me question. 

If this stays in as timed-exclusive, it's not really a question anymore. My affection for DE will be at its end, and they will be just another game company looking to weaponize psychology to milk its players. It will show that the DE today would not have made that ethical choice that I loved them for those years ago. 

e: The story, for reference https://www.pcgamesn.com/warframe/warframe-slot-machine-kubrow

Edited August 27, 2023 by ShogunGunshow

[Marvelous_A]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Didn’t they say times exclusive would never be a thing again after Excal Prime? 

Strictly an ethical choice. According to EULA they can sell as many time-exclusive items as they want even reselling the Excalibur Prime package without any consequence.

[Raarsi]

And the word of the day is "tchotchke". 

Seriously, doesn't DE have like a PR team or something that would have enough common sense to point out just how terrible an idea it is to celebrate a milestone that not a lot of online games can claim by charging the consumers that let their company reach that milestone an amount well more than any new game on the market today for a couple of skins--not even frames, just the skins--and then apply the FOMO element to it in order to prey on players that actually would shell out that kind of money?

Sure, I'll buy that new frame when it comes out in October, but holy crap DE, this heirloom nonsense is just shameful.

[TheLyricAinu]

I want to say right now— I am not trying to criticize the devs. I am pointing the blame solely at the people in charge of MTX.

Now.

I am a long-time Warframe player. I started on PS4 but migrated to PC a few years later. I believe my PS4 account was MR19, and I believe my PC account is MR28. I like to think I’ve put a lot of time into Warframe. I’ve also spent my fair share of money on platinum, and, infrequently, Prime Access packs. 
I’m in the Discord server and was notified of Tennocon happening today, so I decided to tune in despite being on likely a year-long hiatus from the game with infrequent log-ins to see what’s new. I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw, and Soulframe looks good. 
I came to the forums after to see what people were saying about the drops, but instead found numerous people complaining (rightfully so) about the price of the Heirloom collections. I figured it couldn’t be that bad and checked Steam.

To say I was disgusted was an understatement.

The price is ridiculous. I can buy a brand-new #*!%ing game for that price. And this is supposed to be a CELEBRATION??? Us giving you nearly a hundred #*!%ing Canadian dollars for TWO SKINS and some FLUFF??? Holy hell! 
This really shows me how valued I am to DE. That only the devs care about the product, not the higher-ups who have any say in MTX pricing. 
I have zero idea if I can support DE after this.

 

[trst]

30 minutes ago, Tyfyter2002 said:

Financial records don't contain a purchases that would have been made but weren't, they can compare the rate of income before and after the change, but that will always fluctuate, the purpose of this tracker is to remove all doubt it can as to the lower bounds of lost income.

Except comparing average income before and after the release of this is all that matters. A company only loses money on a decision if it impacted their bottom line.

[trst]

41 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Didn’t they say times exclusive would never be a thing again after Excal Prime? 

Timed exclusives never stopped being a thing. We've had cross promotion items, console plat bundle cosmetics, supporter packs, and now this bundle.

[-SilverWolfPrime-]

There's no good outcome to this.

I buy the skins, I instantly become a whale that contributes to the exact problem this creates, and end up becoming ashamed of making the purchase in the first place.

I don't buy the skin, I miss out on cosmetics I legitimately like and perhaps one of the only opportunities I have to get something "prestige" in Warframe (not a Founder player).

Why did DE do this? They're better than this.

[ShogunGunshow]

6 minutes ago, -SilverWolfPrime- said:

Why did DE do this? They're better than this.

They used to be! https://www.pcgamesn.com/warframe/warframe-slot-machine-kubrow

Would the DE of today have made the same decision, I wonder.

[-SilverWolfPrime-]

1 minute ago, ShogunGunshow said:

They used to be! https://www.pcgamesn.com/warframe/warframe-slot-machine-kubrow

Would the DE of today have made the same decision, I wonder.

I've heard about this too, and its shocking to see how low the bar has sunk. It's horrible.

[Ace_Kayo]

DE not learning from their mistakes I see. I thought FOMO skins were going to be dead.
See update from 2015 on Delux skins not being FOMO anymore....(linked for reference)
This "bundle" is outright gross in every way, and smells of spoiled Greedy Milk. You already got your leg up from us Founders already. There is no place for this badly done bundle.

 

[-SilverWolfPrime-]

Contributed, thank you.

I'm still very tempted to buy the skins too, but this decision is just...why.

[Oberick]

10 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

They used to be! https://www.pcgamesn.com/warframe/warframe-slot-machine-kubrow

Would the DE of today have made the same decision, I wonder.

Does the Developer or Publisher set cash shop prices? Given DE just had to apologize for Wayfinder cashshop pricing you would think they wouldn't try another scummy anti-consumer tactic so quickly.

[Micro.Cat]

I have enjoyed playing Warframe since March of 2013. I have taken my share of breaks when gaps between updates were well... terrifyingly concerning and sparse for the health of the game. What you've shown tonight as well as the effort you've all put forth until now is truly a testament to who you all are as a studio. You take what the community has to say and as of recently, consistently put your ear to the ground and bring changes wherever needed. 

Rest up DE, catch up on your sleep, and have a feast on my account! I look forward to what you bring to the table next going into the new story arc! 

 

Read the next lines twice over before reading the 1st spoiler or So Help Me Gods.

I understand in situations like this, it is up to us as consumers to decide if it's worth the purchase. Yes, I still love these skins and will likely buy them myself, However.

Spoiler

DE wants to experiment with a new tier of customization. I am all for it. Simply put, the execution was decent and a nice surprise for 4 deluxe skins but it could be better. One new cosmetic slot doesn't really make this feel better/worth more than a deluxe but worse. This experiment, similar to resurgence, could be a LOT better. So I implore the community to take everything I say below with a SPECK of salt and make your own post about how YOU feel. DE? I love y'all and where the game is going, but if these skins were burgers? They just have an extra slice of pickle, but that pickle? It's paper-thin.

Spoiler

What? You thought I wasn't going to put a TL;DR ~ disclaimer in here? Yeah yeah, you're funny. Surely, I'm delirious. We're all the Lotus's lovely Losers. Hate me all you want but DE did say this is an experiment. I would love to see this be expanded upon. If this collection was supposed to be up there with Prime access, include more accessories. It doesn't need to have new gimmicky weapons. Make these skins as special as you claim them to be. While the platinum is a nice touch, I for one would rather there be an ephemera, armor set, and syandana to boot. The bit about Overwatch 2 Skins? We can agree to recognize it as an afterthought unless there's a large unanimous agreement in the community.   Cause Come On. Why Not? What are the difficulties therein?                                                                                                                                                                                         (( If these were ever made free, it would not surprise me if they were more rare a pickup than Garuda's Bloodshed Sigil.)) 

Spoiler

Now that being said... Heirloom skins, what some are calling the second Founder's Pack. Unique skins that unlock one new cosmetic slot for all Warframes.

Stick with me here:

• Deluxe skins - Unique look, comes with a unique syandana, additionally a weapon skin, sigils, etc. ((If you get Nekros or Valkyr's deluxe, an auxiliary slot cosmetic to boot))
• Lich System - kill them, and you get an ephemera that not only was unique to the respective faction but also the element you chose via Warframe.
• Voidshell skins - Customizable skin textures!
• Kaithe Coronets - Duviri Companion only  ((Platinum Purchase Only))

Do you see what I am getting at?

Heirloom Skins are unique, yes, but kaithe coronets were right there. I never voiced my concerns here on the forums, but in-game chat I agreed with others that those cosmetics should've been made applicable to operators and warframes -for their worth-. Voidshell skins, you stated on a prior stream that applying that customization to deluxe skins would mean having to reach out to the respective artists to allow that system on their respective skin ((many of whom, you said, did not agree to such an option. As well as stated, that you all felt it would move away from providing artists freedom)).** Liches introduced the ephemera slot as well as opened the door for primes to receive ephemera treatment. Deluxe skins as mentioned, are conceived by one if not several artists with accompanying weapon skins, syandanas, sigils, etcetera. You name it, you've done it. You said tonight you reached out to good ol' retired Warframe Artist Mynki to make these new skins and are open to criticism regarding the launch thereof. SO. 

While the introduction of a new Cosmetic Type is great, the launch/introduction thereof could have been better regarding the new Cosmetic Slot. With the September Devstream on the horizon, what will be done to further distinguish this collection? While this theme and the overall art style are absolutely magnificent, what makes them so different from deluxe skins? Prime variants? Remember when you were open to making Umbra Variants? Was this going to be a Tennocon/10th Anniversary one-off? Regardless, going forward, will you also be open to adding auxiliary slot cosmetics? What about a truly unique syandana? What about an accompanying Armor Set? Gimmicky Weapons? Considering the unique glowing effect, what if Frost had various opaque/translucent textures of ice throughout instead if not in addition to the glow? In consideration of Mag's glow, can we look at Nova Atomica for reference? What about looking at Ivara Prime's cloak effect and applying that to Mag's unique glow area? (If it isn't already?) I'm going out on a leg now, and this line is going to be long. Taking a page from Blizzard's Overwatch 2 Mythic Skins, Looking at Heirlooms, for what they entitle as well as the premise of being limited-time, will the Heirloom collection feature a similar feature and introduce interchangeable customizable limbs? The Mythic Skins in Overwatch 2 also have unique interchangeable head designs, why weren't alternative helmets considered here? If there is another game out there with a similar comparison someone else can add it below. I know we all have seen the concept art and the process that goes into drafting the Prime art style on Artstation as well as on Devstreams. Is this collection supposed to be a new tier of customization? Back to the Umbrafying all frames topic, is this the answer instead? If so, then I implore you to look back at prime accessories and expand from there. Make this collection worth the price tag. Ephemera, Syandana, Alternate helms ((Limbs if ever considered)), and don't forget the auxiliary slot, I ask you to consider including any combination of those three. If buying this meant I could attend the X-Men Gala, I too want to be dressed to the nines. If nothing else? Make a Prime toggle for these skins that adds MORE detail.

**If you didn't know before, some deluxe skins were on contract. From my understanding, this ensured that regardless of whether they commissioned someone to make a skin or if it was made by someone at Digital Extremes, everyone was heard as long as the art blended in with the art style of the game. Additionally, DE explained in a prior Devstream that the ability to change the texture was only meant for voidshells, attempting to change/apply this system to deluxe skins would supposedly break NDA with the artist(s) since they did in fact discuss this with artists prior to releasing voidshells.

I come only to DE and my fellow Losers Tenno with the hope we can be more constructive about these skins than when the original helminth system was demonstrated on stream. Do I agree with pricing? No way. Am I free of greed and want and materialism? As if. Could there have been more done with these when you look at what other AAA game companies are doing? Absolutely.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Micro.Cat
Still havent bought the skins ~

[ShogunGunshow]

Cross-promotion stuff is time limited by its very nature. I think most of the other stuff has been, like, weapon skins. When DE has done stuff like that, it's generally been pretty small.

Banger skins better than the primes and a whole new attachment slot with new attachment functionality is not small at all, and people shouldn't be lining up to excuse it because once DE made an Iridos skin for Octavia that was functionally identical to the base skin except they moved some of the material channels around and made some stuff shiny instead of matte.