The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Signas are like Auxilary Cosmetics, but for all Warframes.

To add: Signas are also not new. owo what's this?

Why, a Signa from 2016! It's just not split off her helmet, something DE could easily do retroactively. Three other Deluxe skins I'm aware of also feature Signas or Signa-like components:

• Mag Pneuma has a floating ring and shards around her neck.
• Nova Asuri has a big floating thing behind her head.
• Banshee Soprana has a headset floating around her head.

Signas aren't special. And Auxiliary cosmetics that can be equipped on other frames is also something people have asked for in the past, like Revenant Mephisto's Syandana scarf thing.

Edited September 2, 2023 by PublikDomain

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

18 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

To add: Signas are also not new. owo what's this?

Why, a Signa from 2016! It's just not split off her helmet, something DE could easily do retroactively. Three other Deluxe skins I'm aware of also feature Signas or Signa-like components:

• Mag Pneuma has a floating ring and shards around her neck.
• Nova Asuri has a big floating thing behind her head.
• Banshee Soprana has a headset floating around her head.

Signas aren't special. And Auxiliary cosmetics that can be equipped on other frames is also something people have asked for in the past, like Revenant Mephisto's Syandana scarf thing.

Ok guys, this part of the argument was just bad. Don't start getting petty to the point of pretending to not understand the difference between a permanently placed helmet on certain frames vs an attachable and adjustable add-on for EVERY frame. 

I get the pricing, RA and other stuff being discussed, but this doesn't belong and you know it. 

[PublikDomain]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Ok guys, this part of the argument was just bad. Don't start getting petty to the point of pretending to not understand the difference between a permanently placed helmet on certain frames vs an attachable and adjustable add-on for EVERY frame. 

I get the pricing, RA and other stuff being discussed, but this doesn't belong and you know it. 

You're right, the Separate Mesh tool is far too high-tech for this game.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

You're right, the Separate Mesh tool is far too high-tech for this game.

No, the new feature is exclusive to a set. Again, you already know this. The sarcasm is necessary.

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

No, the new feature is exclusive to a set. Again, you already know this. The sarcasm is necessary.

A "new feature", which is Select > Separate Mesh and some boilerplate item setup. Don't make me break out Blender. Crown-like elements that float behind a Warframe's head is not a new concept and exists on Deluxe skins going back to 2016. The only truly "new" thing about them is that DE had the idea to separate these elements this time, something they could have done just as easily with the four other Deluxe skins that have the same thing.

[Binket_]

11 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

A "new feature", which is Select > Separate Mesh and some boilerplate item setup. Don't make me break out Blender. Crown-like elements that float behind a Warframe's head is not a new concept and exists on Deluxe skins going back to 2016. The only truly "new" thing about them is that DE had the idea to separate these elements this time, something they could have done just as easily with the four other Deluxe skins that have the same thing.

To be fair, it never really crossed my mind Trinity's halo because I never really cared for it on any other Warframe.
... though, the idea for it DID stir around in my head when they made 5 of a similar type of cosmetic for Kaithes.

While I don't really care THAT much for the Signas as they are now? I can GREATLY see the appeal for others.
I'd rather get a Electric or Fire themed one from an inevitable Volt or Ember Heirloom Pack which suits my tastes better.
Or Radiation, if my current use of the Essential Radiation Glyph wasn't a good enough clue.

That being said, I wouldn't be paying a full retail game price for these glorified halos let alone over 10$ even.
The actual model itself may be a slight hassle to make at best, but propping it over a Warframe's head is the least of issues.

Especially since some Deluxe Skins already have this feature, as you've shown.
^{"Don't make me break out Blender" is also a fitting statement here, given how I've seen the community. Might have to anyway, just to outdo DE! Haha!}

EDIT: Upon further contemplation, I actually remembered that even some NON-DELUXE skins do this.
The Mag Gauss helmet legit has a headset that just... floats.

To be honest? I'd rather have that for a Signa.
A little headset of my Warframe I think would be a really nice addition to my sets.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Binket_
Also Limbo's Hats are technically separate from the Model, given that he can lift them in his idle stance. Oh, right. Reason. Uhhhh... hats.

[PublikDomain]

15 hours ago, Binket_ said:

To be fair, it never really crossed my mind Trinity's halo because I never really cared for it on any other Warframe.
... though, the idea for it DID stir around in my head when they made 5 of a similar type of cosmetic for Kaithes.

While I don't really care THAT much for the Signas as they are now? I can GREATLY see the appeal for others.
I'd rather get a Electric or Fire themed one from an inevitable Volt or Ember Heirloom Pack which suits my tastes better.
Or Radiation, if my current use of the Essential Radiation Glyph wasn't a good enough clue.

That being said, I wouldn't be paying a full retail game price for these glorified halos let alone over 10$ even.
The actual model itself may be a slight hassle to make at best, but propping it over a Warframe's head is the least of issues.

Especially since some Deluxe Skins already have this feature, as you've shown.
^{"Don't make me break out Blender" is also a fitting statement here, given how I've seen the community. Might have to anyway, just to outdo DE! Haha!}

EDIT: Upon further contemplation, I actually remembered that even some NON-DELUXE skins do this.
The Mag Gauss helmet legit has a headset that just... floats.

To be honest? I'd rather have that for a Signa.
A little headset of my Warframe I think would be a really nice addition to my sets.

Mag Gauss is about the only regular helmet I could think of that has something like a Signa, and idk... I guess they could split it like the others, but splitting Deluxe skins makes a little more sense to me because they're already sold in bundles. Adding an item to an existing bundle seems simpler than converting a single item to a bundle. 🤷‍♀️

Banshee Soprana's Signa would probably scratch that itch though:

Spoiler

🍆💦💦💦

Edit: I'll see if Mag Gauss even works if I get a chance. Well, maybe Mag Gauss would work?

Spoiler

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Voxxxmagna]

This post made me "psychologically vulnerable".

Despite what you say about DE becoming creatively bankrupt, it would seem they still convinced you to put your hand in your pocket.

Weird moral posturing.  You are not being exploited. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

If they did the work of making wf limbs interchangable, that would be all the freedom we'd ever need. Unlocking them after you feed to helminth or whatever. 

[trst]

Except DE has been doing time limited bundles, price inflation with platinum, and forced bundles almost since day one of the game. Not just with the Founder system but with time limited promos, events, PA/PV/Resurgence, console bundles, and supporter packs. Plus there's plenty of plat only bundles in-game with bundled exclusives.

Makes the whole argument incredibly bizarre that players are acting like the Heirloom pack is out of place when it has been in-line with DE's business model for most of the game's life.

 

Also there's nothing wrong or scummy with Regal Aya when it has nothing to do with the value of plat and is used exclusively for items that were cash only before. Platinum itself may have issues with value due to inflation but it's still the primary currency for player trade and the overwhelming majority of cosmetics.

[PollexMessier]

Deleted

Edited September 6, 2023 by PollexMessier
No longer in context due to topic merge.

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

On 2023-08-31 at 8:08 PM, L00ri3n said:

I bought the Zenith Heirloom Pack as soon as it came out.

I don't play Frost or Mag, nor do I enjoy that type of skin, cosmetics, glyph, or anything in that pack.

I did it as a huge THANK YOU

Did you now, great, they'll just keep doing it then.

[Roble_Viejo]

Honestly... The fact you bought this is far more relevant than this Post

You should vote with your Wallet, we can write all the Posts we want
but that is really what matters, what they care about: Money

[(NSW)Free_Aetharus]

What's so regal about regal Aya? It's just Aya... but instead of it being the end-all-be-all currency, it's the less valuable 'Just Aya'

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I am surprised this thread hasn't been folded into the main discussion thread, but it may have been overlooked and thus folded/merged (and then latter points may look a bit odd since they are addressing a different OP). 

I want to address different points present in this thread. Prescriptive assertions and accusations generally tend to be weaker than demonstrating and explaining an idea. I mean its common behaviour, but its also a common catalyst for arguments and tension as well. 

Then people can be passively "scammed", understand the scam with hindsight and more awareness, and then be critical of the scam. Not sure why people are giving OP a hard time for that. I put scammed in quotations, because I don't think that DE is scamming people in the technical sense, but just because I may disagree with OP on that, doesn't invalidate or dismantle the basic idea above. Disagreeing with people, doesn't mean we just try to argue every point they might have as if we are now life long enemies. 

Platinum and Regal Ayas inclusion in the bundle, regardless of precedent or perceptions around value, can still be criticised and leveraged with skepticism, criticism, ire, and so on. For a few reasons. The past isn't exempt from criticism or critique, variables and thresholds often change. Some variables may remain the same, but many may not, and often its those new variables which are the cause for criticism and negativity. Different people can focus and emphasise different variables, which is natural and fine, but ideally we should also all be aware and acknowledge this. 

Just as an example, I am aware that timed exclusives have existed in Warframe for some time. Could be said that they could be considered FOMO. I am personally broadly against FOMO, but but certain variables can soften or harden how personally critical and skeptical I am. Like an on ship decoration or different skinned domestic drone, or even a pistol skin? Being available for only a year? At a certain price point? Now someone else might be more critical. I wouldn't find their criticism invalid or too much, or unfair, I just wouldn't necessary say I share the same exact sentiment to that same degree. Someone else might not really care that much. I also wouldn't find their stance invalid or disagreeable or unfair, I just wouldn't share it either. I think its important to note this, because no one will ever agree about every single variable, the exact amount. Rather its more about a threshold and tolerance for certain variables that add to larger actions and consequences. People should be careful about what standards, thresholds and preferences they impose on others. 

To put it another way, the next two Prime Warframes could also be made timed exclusives, and likely more people would have issues, because they do affect gameplay, include mastery, and many completionists would probably be irked as well. Except similar arguments could be made "its already happened before" well yes, but for many that was a very different situation and time (variables). Just like, for many, the skins of Warframes, especially the perceived quality and value, are much more than weapon skins (variable) and thus worth more criticism, and ire  For some, its not even about the skins, but the idea of the accolades exclusivity, meaning and wording to this pack, and the implications of that in the greater context. More variables. 

Also have different thresholds and consequences. Personally, I am very critical on this, but overall optimistic and positive about Warframe, and will probably at some point in the future support them with money, as I have in the past. Though now I am a little bit more weary. For some, they may see this as a quitting point. Even though our actions and perceptions are different, I wouldn't think thats unfair of them or invalid (likewise those that remain naturally). 

I forget an additional detail about the inclusion of Plat and Regal Aya with such bundles. Some aspects of the bundle are timed exclusive. Some are not. Thats a bit dubious, because whilst some do (and have expressed as much) about the value and utility of Regal Aya and Platinum to justify and excuse certain criticisms, factually... Platinum and Regal Aya are always available with the game. People do not have to worry about missing out on it. PC players in particular can always wait for Discounts for Plat. Many other bundles that rotate and never leave permanently also offer Plat. There is no rush or urge to get either Premium Currency. Its bundled with elements that are time sensitive, and used to inflate and raise the price. OP is right about this as far as business tactics and techniques. Ways to try to manipulate people, but in a sort of sanitised, friendly, insidious way. I mean there are a lot of ways to manipulate people, we could say, thats just life, but its important to consider within the context of consumer rights and business practices, and peoples apathy and complacency. Including how many of us benefit by the pressure, criticism and ire of people in the past, to raise consumer rights and wrangle business/corporate practices/standards to be more accountable. Albeit, in the larger context there are still deep issues. 

Some of this, these issues, some just don't care about or consider, which you know, valid, but some people also use that apathy and lack of understanding and knowledge to make arguments from and arguments that they think will pacify or shame others for being negative or critical, not realising the weak position they hold. Personal satisfaction or apathy isn't a strong argument against others intolerance for certain practices, even... if it breaks even, or is in a majority. It may only take a large minority of people so dissatisfied with an action or decision, that it may negatively affect their potential to support a business, for businesses to realise they messed up. Often the skill and difficulty is figuring out such numbers and thresholds. None of us on the Forums has that sort of info, but there are a few patterns we can observe, to speculate a tiny bit. 

[.Fire_Fly.]

i fine with the pack once i get the money for it im buying it myself. and since de added platinum + regal i can also get the extra prime stuff ive been wanting for years instead of having to spend even more money and separate items i can have it all. im ok with it.

[nillos]

Well written, but you should always let your money speak. DE doesn't care too much about some forum complaints, but cares a lot about its cash flow. If you bought said package, you are part of the problem you adressed.

[0_The_F00l]

I am not a buyer of the heirloom pack , i would rather buy something else , 

If anyone wants to spend their money on it , that's their business.

I do agree it's not the smartest thing to completely lock out things in bundles instead of selling them piecemeal. But if DE wants to bet on FOMO , let them suffer or benefit from it, I don't have their numbers so I can't comment.

Then again , it's worked for them so far so it's probably benefitting them.

I really don't care about regal Aya , it I can usually trade for the same parts at much cheaper with platinum ,only thing I can't get j some of the cosmetics  ,which kinda goes back to the fomo and bundling.

[PublikDomain]

16 hours ago, trst said:

Except DE has been doing time limited bundles, price inflation with platinum, and forced bundles almost since day one of the game. Not just with the Founder system but with time limited promos, events, PA/PV/Resurgence, console bundles, and supporter packs. Plus there's plenty of plat only bundles in-game with bundled exclusives.

And it sucks every time they do it. It sucked with Founders and still comes up as a sore spot even today 10 years later, it sucks that cool cosmetics and decorations disappear never to be seen again in Supporter Packs and console bundles, it sucks that Resurgence rotates so artificially slowly. This all sucks. Old suck doesn't make new suck any less sucky. People have raised concerns and complaints literally every time this happens. The only difference here is that with exclusive FOMO Deluxe skins DE's finally crossed a line people aren't putting up with.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

They listened without listening I see.

You want all those lovely limited skins?  Here's a bunch of garbage you don't want thrown in!!!

Instead of shiny eggs, have some plat instead! We all good now? Greaaaat!

Shortsighted nonsense as with all these F2P guys. Bulk profit over volume.  

[Binket_]

On 2023-09-04 at 8:31 PM, trst said:

Except DE has been doing time limited bundles, price inflation with platinum, and forced bundles almost since day one of the game. Not just with the Founder system but with time limited promos, events, PA/PV/Resurgence, console bundles, and supporter packs. Plus there's plenty of plat only bundles in-game with bundled exclusives.

• Events can often come back. If not, they have their rewards come back through other means.
  • (See: Basmu/Ceti Lacera for an example off the top of my head.)
• Prime Access, Prime Vault and Prime Resurgence have ALWAYS come back at a future date.
• Forced Bundles like the Deluxe Skins are often overlooked because Platinum is tradable.
  • Platinum must be bought at some point however, so DE will still be getting paid.
• Console Bundles fall into the category of "Third Party", these are just the nature of brands intersecting with each other.
  • If they can come back, sure... but it's usually a nightmare for both to cooperate on such. Licenses and whatnot.
• Supporter Packs WOULD have been fine if they never went away.
  • It's because they do is why we're all annoyed by them.
• Founder Pack was SUPPOSED to be a one-time thing. Such ludicrous were supposed to never happen again.
  • And yes, even Supporter Packs can be a lot more feasible compared to the astronomical price of the Heirloom Packs.

Half of those are acceptable because the community has either gotten changes to where they are acceptable.
... and the other half aren't much better and we'd want them changed too.

On 2023-09-04 at 9:05 PM, PollexMessier said:

I mostly agree but I think you're over exaggerating how bad Regal Aya is by itself.

The problem is that if they're gonna sell a pack for insane price?
The only people they're selling it to are probably the same people who are already sitting on some Regal Aya as is.

To which it's just stupid. Period.

On 2023-09-05 at 4:29 AM, .Fire_Fly. said:

i fine with the pack once i get the money for it im buying it myself.

Wait for a good while.
It'll probably go on sale like a lot of the other "Limited-Time" garbage.
Saves you money, helps pressure DE into stopping that nonsense.

Everyone's a winner.

16 hours ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

They listened without listening I see.

The Monkey's Paw is most evident with games that are actually somewhat decent.
DE is by far the biggest example of such.

"Oh, we have this mode that plays pretty decently with actually somewhat interesting gameplay?
Let's throw a GARGANTUAN ROADBLOCK in the form of the worst possible choice for a boss!"

If it weren't for seeing a human employees there?
I would've assumed DE was some android cult sacrificing various animals to fuel their servers.
... now I just assume it's only the sacrifice part, because how else do explain their spaghetti code?
^{Their bugs are so strange that you'd have to assume they're paranormal at times.}

Regardless, the Heirloom Pack introducing "extra plat" as their saving grace is only gonna make it more laughable when they put a sale on it around Christmas.
Because you know they're going to. That holiday money is too good from them to resist.

[PollexMessier]

8 hours ago, Binket_ said:

The problem is that if they're gonna sell a pack for insane price?
The only people they're selling it to are probably the same people who are already sitting on some Regal Aya as is.

Topic merge took my comment out of context.
What a surprise it's almost like topic merging is the opposite of helpful and makes these posts completely unintelligible or something. I wonder if DE does that on purpose to kill conversations they don't like.
My comment was a response to someone saying that aya itself was a scam, not just it's presence in the pack.

On 2023-09-04 at 4:16 AM, Binket_ said:

To be fair, it never really crossed my mind Trinity's halo because I never really cared for it on any other Warframe.
... though, the idea for it DID stir around in my head when they made 5 of a similar type of cosmetic for Kaithes.

While I don't really care THAT much for the Signas as they are now? I can GREATLY see the appeal for others.
I'd rather get a Electric or Fire themed one from an inevitable Volt or Ember Heirloom Pack which suits my tastes better.
Or Radiation, if my current use of the Essential Radiation Glyph wasn't a good enough clue.

That being said, I wouldn't be paying a full retail game price for these glorified halos let alone over 10$ even.
The actual model itself may be a slight hassle to make at best, but propping it over a Warframe's head is the least of issues.

Especially since some Deluxe Skins already have this feature, as you've shown.
^{"Don't make me break out Blender" is also a fitting statement here, given how I've seen the community. Might have to anyway, just to outdo DE! Haha!}

EDIT: Upon further contemplation, I actually remembered that even some NON-DELUXE skins do this.
The Mag Gauss helmet legit has a headset that just... floats.

To be honest? I'd rather have that for a Signa.
A little headset of my Warframe I think would be a really nice addition to my sets.

I dont think everything that has a detatched piece of their helmet should be a signa. Just things that are distinctly halo looking or hovering way off and not wrapping around their head in a way that would make fitting them on many other things nearly impossible.. Mag gauss may be detached but they look like they're part of the helmet stylistically. and they would just clip and not really look that great on many other things.

Banshee soprana's has simmilar issues... headphones, so I want them. They would almost definitely clip with most other warframe's heads too tho.

Realistically Nova Asuri and Trinity Strega's halos are the only two that should be up for serious consideration for being converted into signas.

Edited September 6, 2023 by PollexMessier

[Binket_]

16 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Just things that are distinctly halo looking or hovering way off and not wrapping around their head in a way that would make fitting them on many other things nearly impossible

Well, Equinox's Deluxe has this little floating ball thing above it's head.

Reminds me of the Chao from the Sonic Adventure series, in a way.

[PublikDomain]

17 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Mag gauss may be detached but they look like they're part of the helmet stylistically. and they would just clip and not really look that great on many other things.

Banshee soprana's has simmilar issues... headphones, so I want them. They would almost definitely clip with most other warframe's heads too tho.

Clipping isn't really that big of a deal though. Lots of things clip, even the new Signas. If retroactive Signas clip too then it's all the same. Ultimately it's up to the end user if they care about stuff clipping.

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

Well, Equinox's Deluxe has this little floating ball thing above it's head.

Reminds me of the Chao from the Sonic Adventure series, in a way.

Ooh, I'd forgotten about that one. I'll have to check it out for my thread.

[PollexMessier]

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Clipping isn't really that big of a deal though. Lots of things clip, even the new Signas. If retroactive Signas clip too then it's all the same. Ultimately it's up to the end user if they care about stuff clipping.

I largely agree with that. Certain operator hoods disabling certain cosmetics just to avoid clipping drives me absolutely insane and I wish DE would just let them clip. Two of the Fortuna hoods, Vent Pobber and Kubrodon, released without that feature and looked awsome that way. Cus with the hood open your hair largely hid the hood that stays on your head when it's opened which... imo is a really terrible design anyways, so all you saw was the embelishments poking out. Vent Pobber looked like you just had a bunch of pipes and antinae stickign out of your head, and Kubrodon looked like wires coming out the back of your head and you got a cool visor resting on your forehead... But they were later patched to hide your hair, earrings, and other accessories and now I hate them.

But I still think some consideration needs to be given to the idea of signas beyond "Anything vaguely floating around a frame's head" I think if it wraps around the sides and generally looks like it's meant to be a part of the helmet and not a separate embellishment, like the helmet would look incomplete without it, Like Banshee soprana (as much as I want those headphones) And Mag Gauss, Then it should remain the way it is. If it looks like something completely independent of the helmet itself then it should be a signa. The more I think about it, Mag Pnuma's neck ring is also a solid contender for this too. Especially with the idea of a height slider on the signas.

8 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Well, Equinox's Deluxe has this little floating ball thing above it's head.

Reminds me of the Chao from the Sonic Adventure series, in a way.

Imma be honest I never really payed attention to what that helmet even looked like cus I absolutely hate that skin, even as someone who loves Equinox and was an Equinox main for most of my time playing the game, until I flipped to not really considering any frame my main and dividing my attention more evenly...

But yeah that one checks out. Solid option to be converted to a signa. In fact I feel like that helmet would look better without that thing on top of it so even moreso in this case as one of the first instances of this were I'd consider the ability to remove it as part of the benefit of making it a signa. Even better if signas come with a y rotation axis, cus that thing would look genuinely cool upside down, tho I doubt they do.

Edited September 7, 2023 by PollexMessier