An open letter to DE: How to resolve your current Heirloom collection problem

[Stormandreas]

This is a message for DE.

After sitting on the information for these skins, seeing the distaste and hate, and even trying my best to quell it a little in places, I would like to provide as calm and reasonable solution as possible for this whole scenario. This is not a hate post, this is to provide a solution. A solution I sincerely hope DE does follow.

DE, all you have to do, is provide 1 more package. 1 cheaper package that only includes the 2 skins and Signas. That's all.
I absolutely promise you, if you provide 1 more package, with only the cosmetics, no Regal Aya, no Plat, nothing else, just the 2 Skins and 2 Signas, for half the cost (or there abouts) of the current pack that includes the Regal Aya, you will get many more sales.

I know many of us players want to get our hands on those skins, and we'd be happy enough to support DE to do so, but many are not willing to throw down an entire Triple A games worth of money to do so (at least not all at once).

I garuntee, a smaller package only including the skins and not the additional bloat, will drive up sales, and entice more players to purchase the package. I know I would!

Secondly, the time limitation of these bundles must be removed. FOMO is an extremely frowned upon tactic nowadays, DE, you of all devs should know this due to the amount of backlash and badgering you've had from the Founders pack and the original Prime Access.
Remove the time limitation. It's a mistake, one you've made 3 times now, that's 2 times to many, and the Community is bearing its fangs at you now for it.

Warframe survives due to the goodwill of it's community. Do not anger them, or Warframe will suffer greatly. We don't want to see that!

 

TL;DR - I would love to support Warframe with the Heirlooms, but not at the cost they are currently, which is due to the lack of purchase options available. Simply provide your players with options, and you'll nearly eliminate this problem!

 

Please listen to your players and community!

Sincerely

A concerned long term player.

Note:

Spoiler

You may say "But you're a founder, this is the same thing". Yes, I am a Founder, but no, this is not the same thing.
As Founders, Warframe was in a very unknown place. There was no garuntee it would take off. We gave DE our money to see Warframe succeed and help it take off. That is Founders.
The Heirloom collection is a "celebration" of 10 years of Warframe. Warframe is already doing incredibly well, and does not need a 2nd Founders package by any stretch of the imagination. This is not the same as a Founders pack.

Note 2:

Spoiler

I understand there are a lot of threads talking about this topic, but many are simply spreading hate and distastes, very few are providing solutions.
I emplore the Forum mods not to merge this thread, so we can give DE constructive feedback they can work with, rather than having to dredge through 20 pages of arguments, negativity and pure anger to find something helpful!

EDIT: While it's not quite the solution I and many others were wanting, THANK YOU DE FOR ACTING! 

The solution you have chosen, is a very good one, with the sheer amount of plat and value of the packs now. WELL DONE! 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Stormandreas
Added thanks to DE for the solution they have chosen

[Tryndarella]

Im supporting this 100%  ^

[NecroPed]

12 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

DE, all you have to do, is provide 1 more package. 1 cheaper package that only includes the 2 skins and Signas. That's all.
I absolutely promise you, if you provide 1 more package, with only the cosmetics, no Regal Aya, no Plat, nothing else, just the 2 Skins and 2 Signas, for half the cost (or there abouts) of the current pack that includes the Regal Aya, you will get many more sales.

I don't think this is all that should be done. The colour palette should be included as well. At the very least there should be a pack that just simply removes the regal aya and reduces the price in proportion to the lost regal aya, I want all the unique goodies (colour palette, emote, glyph) and I do not want the pack with regal aya to continue to be the only way for me to do that. 

I fully support more variations of the pack, but I think this should extend to all the unique items not just the skins. I also think there should be another higher tier pack with more regal aya that provides enough for both mag and frost bundled together (This costs 10 regal aya normally while the bundle only provides 6), because as it stands now you only get enough for 1 of them, and need to make two 3 regal aya purchases or one 7 regal aya purchase to get the remaining 4 regal aya needed to purchase the two primes bundled together because of regal ayas predatory monetization system. 

[RLanzinger]

100% Agree : No hate, no Violence just a brilliant solution. 😊👍

+1 Like

[Stormandreas]

24 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I don't think this is all that should be done. The colour palette should be included as well. At the very least there should be a pack that just simply removes the regal aya and reduces the price in proportion to the lost regal aya, I want all the unique goodies (colour palette, emote, glyph) and I do not want the pack with regal aya to continue to be the only way for me to do that. 

I fully support more variations of the pack, but I think this should extend to all the unique items not just the skins. I also think there should be another higher tier pack with more regal aya that provides enough for both mag and frost bundled together (This costs 10 regal aya normally while the bundle only provides 6), because as it stands now you only get enough for 1 of them, and need to make two 3 regal aya purchases or one 7 regal aya purchase to get the remaining 4 regal aya needed to purchase the two primes bundled together because of regal ayas predatory monetization system. 

While I agree generally, and would like to get all the cosmetics and support DE, there's only so much they'll be able to do afaik.

A singular new package shouldn't be too much of a difficulty, but multiple of them wil be a bit harder, and require a lot more approvals and admin work. I'd settle for just the 1 new package, which does seem to be the most sought after solution currently.

[NecroPed]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

While I agree generally, and would like to get all the cosmetics and support DE, there's only so much they'll be able to do afaik.

A singular new package shouldn't be too much of a difficulty, but multiple of them wil be a bit harder, and require a lot more approvals and admin work. I'd settle for just the 1 new package, which does seem to be the most sought after solution currently.

While I can understand the extra work involved I still dont think 1 pack can be good enough unless it simply removes the regal aya. There is too much unique stuff in it to please everyone with only 1 additonal pack, so if only 1 can happen as far as I'm concerned it should include all unique items. The main problem for a lot of people is feeling the need to buy things they don't want in order to get what they do want and I don't think excluding unique temporarily available items is a great way to do that. Though I can see how it simultaneously can add to that same problem by not providing the skins only for those who only want the skins. I just think that caters to a much smaller group of people than changes could be accounting for as well as being the less severe issue because without accounting for all of the unique items there will pretty much always be people who have to buy something they don't need that's regularly available elsewhere . i feel like people having a couple extra unique items is better than people missing out or buying something thats regularly available that they don't want.

And as far as an extra pack on top to account for the predatory regal aya monetization I personally don't think this issue should be ignored (though it doesnt have to be alleviated with an extra pack) because it is layered anti consumer predatory crap. As much as I hate to suggest a pack with more regal aya, the current amount in the pack in combination with the cost of bundled primes and the amount of purchasable regal aya is anti consumer and I think it looks incredibly poorly on DE and is something I thought DE were better than doing. I can't see the monetization of regal aya changing or the pack giving an extra 4 with no extra cost (i would accept that as an altnerative to a new pack, I just don't believe this would ever happen. Though more likely and less preferable, putting 1 extra regal aya in the current pack helps alleviate the extra layer of predatory monetization of regal aya incentivizing buying more regal aya than you need to complete the prime bundles. If they add 1 regal aya this makes it so only the minimum purchase of regal aya is required to get the prime resurgence bundle with no extra leftover.) and I wholeheartedly feel something needs to be done to alleviate this layered anti consumer predatory system.

Edited August 28, 2023 by NecroPed

[kyori]

They will make a cheaper package soon. They always listen to the community. So first they have to release something, then to see if community is happy or not. If unhappy then soon they will make adjustment to make the community happy again. Thus warframe will have many more years to go. Everyone happy yeah!

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, kyori said:

They will make a cheaper package soon. They always listen to the community. So first they have to release something, then to see if community is happy or not. If unhappy then soon they will make adjustment to make the community happy again. Thus warframe will have many more years to go. Everyone happy yeah!

After Regal Aya, Wayfinder, and now this, it just seems like they'll keep trying until something happens that people don't mind or don't notice.

It could also be that strategy of overtuning something so that when it gets walked back, the middle ground is still worse than when you left off before the situation.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Voltage

[DrivaMain]

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

After Regal Aya, Wayfinder, and now this, it just seems like they'll keep trying until something happens that people don't mind or don't notice.

 

Most if not all companies do this, they want to see how far they can push people's "tolerance" to such tactics, then dial it back down once they pass through that boundary. Do you remember when prime vault accessories were so overpriced for a while, then DE immediately released a cheaper pack which included all of the exclusive accessories when Jim Sterling made a fuss about it?

Edited August 28, 2023 by DrivaMain

[KIREEK]

They already stated that is was just a test, not only to bundle up a bunch of stuff, but also to introduce a new type of cosmetic, meaning these 2 are the 1st of it's kind and more halos will apear.

There is nothing you can do if you find it expensive other than to consider that these skins will be some of those you will never aquire ever, in 2024 the skins will stop from being available and DE will check how much they made and if it was worth all the trouble, i'm sure they will discuss with tencent to see what can be adressed for future packs, if halos are worth investing more time or not,......

Yes, a bunch of tactics are used together to try and maximize the sales, but that doesn't mean you have to buy, just enjoy the game, check out the skins on other players and please don't harass users that do buy the skins, we don't need that.

[Stormandreas]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

They already stated that is was just a test, not only to bundle up a bunch of stuff, but also to introduce a new type of cosmetic, meaning these 2 are the 1st of it's kind and more halos will apear.

There is nothing you can do if you find it expensive other than to consider that these skins will be some of those you will never aquire ever, in 2024 the skins will stop from being available and DE will check how much they made and if it was worth all the trouble, i'm sure they will discuss with tencent to see what can be adressed for future packs, if halos are worth investing more time or not,......

Yes, a bunch of tactics are used together to try and maximize the sales, but that doesn't mean you have to buy, just enjoy the game, check out the skins on other players and please don't harass users that do buy the skins, we don't need that.

So, DE said it was the first of a new cosmetic, and what they are testing, is an option within the Signas for all cosmetics, not that these cosmetics themselves are tests.

DE also do not need to wait until after the bundles are gone to see how well they are doing. This can be determined within 1 month how well these bundles do, very easily. All forms of sales have projections, and if those projections aren't met, something's going wrong, and adjust accordingly.

The tactics used are not necessarily to maximise sales, as if it were, there would be more than 3 options, this is where the issue lies. Options. Lack of options compared to DE's other offerings (Prime access, Prime resurgence, Plat sales etc.), and these options offer completely different items instead of progressively more in each pack. This is where the frustration lies.
There is no option to get the skins and nothing else for cheaper for those who can't afford a full priced games worth of cosmetics because there's been Regal Aya thrown in. The only other pack that includes the skins, is even more expensive. It's simply a lack of options.

No-where in this thread did anyone ever mention to harass anyone who bought the skin. That is not the purpose of this thread. It is simply to provide DE with a solution to this problem, which they have landed themselves in.

[Navarc]

would love to see this solution, i'm really hoping this is one of those times where they do listen to the community - they're better at it than any other devteam i'm aware of i just hope their hands aren't tied on account of higher ups
if that were the case, i would love transparency on that they actually cannot control the pricing anylonger & it's tencent that is in charge which is what it's looking like

[_Hefty_]

2 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

DE, all you have to do, is provide 1 more package. 1 cheaper package that only includes the 2 skins and Signas. That's all.
I absolutely promise you, if you provide 1 more package, with only the cosmetics, no Regal Aya, no Plat, nothing else, just the 2 Skins and 2 Signas, for half the cost (or there abouts) of the current pack that includes the Regal Aya, you will get many more sales.

3 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

I would love to support Warframe with the Heirlooms, but not at the cost they are currently, which is due to the lack of purchase options available. Simply provide your players with options, and you'll nearly eliminate this problem!

The Celestial Heirloom Collection would've been the package for me, but I have no need for the 6 Regal Aya included. I already have both primes, and you can use these skins on the base frames.

[Stormandreas]

6 minutes ago, _Hefty_ said:

The Celestial Heirloom Collection would've been the package for me, but I have no need for the 6 Regal Aya included. I already have both primes, and you can use these skins on the base frames.

Precisely where the issue lies!

This is why a Skins only pack, without the Regal Aya, would massively resolve this situation.

[KIREEK]

56 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

So, DE said it was the first of a new cosmetic, and what they are testing, is an option within the Signas for all cosmetics, not that these cosmetics themselves are tests.

DE also do not need to wait until after the bundles are gone to see how well they are doing. This can be determined within 1 month how well these bundles do, very easily. All forms of sales have projections, and if those projections aren't met, something's going wrong, and adjust accordingly.

The tactics used are not necessarily to maximise sales, as if it were, there would be more than 3 options, this is where the issue lies. Options. Lack of options compared to DE's other offerings (Prime access, Prime resurgence, Plat sales etc.), and these options offer completely different items instead of progressively more in each pack. This is where the frustration lies.
There is no option to get the skins and nothing else for cheaper for those who can't afford a full priced games worth of cosmetics because there's been Regal Aya thrown in. The only other pack that includes the skins, is even more expensive. It's simply a lack of options.

No-where in this thread did anyone ever mention to harass anyone who bought the skin. That is not the purpose of this thread. It is simply to provide DE with a solution to this problem, which they have landed themselves in.

I fully get it and i'm not saying anyone is harassing here, my appologies if i came across saying that, i was talking to a broader audience as it seems the fustration that players have are now being dumped on the players that bought the skins using the available options.

Still it's a test and they won't change anything during it, i find it suprising that after 10 years they would still be testing the proper moneytization method for the game, i mean cmon DE.

Provide your feedback and they may use it........on future bundles. This one is set in stone really.

[Stormandreas]

4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

I fully get it and i'm not saying anyone is harassing here, my appologies if i came across saying that, i was talking to a broader audience as it seems the fustration that players have are now being dumped on the players that bought the skins using the available options.

Still it's a test and they won't change anything during it, i find it suprising that after 10 years they would still be testing the proper moneytization method for the game, i mean cmon DE.

Provide your feedback and they may use it........on future bundles. This one is set in stone really.

No worries, and I agree we shouldn't condem players for buying it, though I will judge anyone who say the bundles are perfectly fine and there's no issue, as there clearly is currently.

They can change these bundles, absolutely they can. Nothing is set in stone, but it's whether they are willing to do something about it or not.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Provide your feedback and they may use it........on future bundles. This one is set in stone really.

Set in stone like Regal Aya? There's no excuse here and it's easily remedied. The longer they wait, the worse they're making it for themselves.

[NecroPed]

9 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Precisely where the issue lies!

This is why a Skins only pack, without the Regal Aya, would massively resolve this situation.

I'm sorry but I really think this is a shortsighted 'resolution' thats actually reinforcing the same problem people are trying to get changed (unless it includes a pack with no regal aya and all the unique items), people can't get all the unique items without getting the pack containing something that is arbitrarily inflating the value of the pack and a pack with just the skins does not solve this if you want the other unique goodies and only adds to that by limiting the unique rewards one can get. 

I have no problem with this on top of a pack with all the unique rewards but I wholeheartedly think treating it as only needing this one fix is a bad way to look at it because the most glaring issue of people having to buy unique temporarily available items with a regularly available item thats inflating the packs value is still going to be the only way to get all the rewards, to me the worst case scenario still exists with your resolution and so I can't be happy with it unless theres a pack with all unique limited items with no regal aya. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by NecroPed

[Politically_Correct_Name]

I actually disagree with the solution and think that just reinforces this greedy tactic.  There already is a premium currency, it's called platinum, it has to be bought with real money and that is what supports the company.  Its incredibly greedy and borderline predatory to realize that they already made the cash from the plat so they want to sell items for money directly on top of that.   Make everything buyable with platinum and stop being so greedy, theyll end up making more money anyway and everyone will be happy.

[KIREEK]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

Set in stone like Regal Aya? There's no excuse here and it's easily remedied. The longer they wait, the worse they're making it for themselves.

It would be unfair to add more options now. Players that made the purchase would feel like they would pick said options given the prior chance, this would instantly turn into a refund nightmare.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

It would be unfair to add more options now. Players that made the purchase would feel like they would pick said options given the prior chance, this would instantly turn into a refund nightmare.

Nah. It's unfair they didn't think of this before releasing it. You have it backwards. You're not disrespecting what a player purchases by walking back a decision that disrespected their purchase to begin with.

Refunds for who? Supporter packs go on sale at the end of their rotation all the time, and Prime Vaults were discounted Prime Access. You weren't eligible for a refund for them adding a new accessories package either.

DE figured all this out with deluxe skins and Prime Vaults in 2015 and 2018 respectively. There really isn't anything more to add than that.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Voltage

[PollexMessier]

1/2 cost puts the price at around 18$ per skin+their halo which is still a bit ridiculous I feel. But also without the limited time, I certainly wouldn't have been complaining about it if that's how they released. Plus that technically makes them cheaper than the regal aya cost of a single prime accessories pack from resurgence. And about the cost of a deluxe skin pack's worth of non-discounted platinum. So compared to somewhat similar things in the game it's not a bad spot to put them.

Honestly I wouldn't even complain if they made them only available for the month of warframe's anniversary each year. Which maintains a level of Fomo still, but not as much as resurgence accessories have. I'd see that as totally reasonable.

[NecroPed]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

It would be unfair to add more options now. Players that made the purchase would feel like they would pick said options given the prior chance, this would instantly turn into a refund nightmare.

Id say compensation can help alleviate that. I have issue with the amount of regal aya in the pack too because it pushes people who want the bundled frost and mag for 10 regal aya into an anti consumer predatory trap to buy more than the 4 remaining regal aya they need to complete the purchase. An extra regal aya in the current pack would help alleviate that by only requiring the minimum purchasable amount to complete the bundled purchase while simultaneously acting as a form of compensation for those who bought the pack before things changed, even if its not much its something. 

And whats more unfair to me is expecting people to buy a regularly available item that they don't want in order to purchase all the unique time limited items that will never return. Something absolutely needs to be done, this is also impacting their reputation and if it doesn't change their reputation will continue to be negatively impacted. 

[(XBOX)Spencer Priest]

21 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

This is a message for DE.

After sitting on the information for these skins, seeing the distaste and hate, and even trying my best to quell it a little in places, I would like to provide as calm and reasonable solution as possible for this whole scenario. This is not a hate post, this is to provide a solution. A solution I sincerely hope DE does follow.

DE, all you have to do, is provide 1 more package. 1 cheaper package that only includes the 2 skins and Signas. That's all.
I absolutely promise you, if you provide 1 more package, with only the cosmetics, no Regal Aya, no Plat, nothing else, just the 2 Skins and 2 Signas, for half the cost (or there abouts) of the current pack that includes the Regal Aya, you will get many more sales.

I know many of us players want to get our hands on those skins, and we'd be happy enough to support DE to do so, but many are not willing to throw down an entire Triple A games worth of money to do so (at least not all at once).

I garuntee, a smaller package only including the skins and not the additional bloat, will drive up sales, and entice more players to purchase the package. I know I would!

Secondly, the time limitation of these bundles must be removed. FOMO is an extremely frowned upon tactic nowadays, DE, you of all devs should know this due to the amount of backlash and badgering you've had from the Founders pack and the original Prime Access.
Remove the time limitation. It's a mistake, one you've made 3 times now, that's 2 times to many, and the Community is bearing its fangs at you now for it.

Warframe survives due to the goodwill of it's community. Do not anger them, or Warframe will suffer greatly. We don't want to see that!

 

TL;DR - I would love to support Warframe with the Heirlooms, but not at the cost they are currently, which is due to the lack of purchase options available. Simply provide your players with options, and you'll nearly eliminate this problem!

 

Please listen to your players and community!

Sincerely

A concerned long term player.

Note:

  Hide contents

You may say "But you're a founder, this is the same thing". Yes, I am a Founder, but no, this is not the same thing.
As Founders, Warframe was in a very unknown place. There was no garuntee it would take off. We gave DE our money to see Warframe succeed and help it take off. That is Founders.
The Heirloom collection is a "celebration" of 10 years of Warframe. Warframe is already doing incredibly well, and does not need a 2nd Founders package by any stretch of the imagination. This is not the same as a Founders pack.

Note 2:

  Hide contents

I understand there are a lot of threads talking about this topic, but many are simply spreading hate and distastes, very few are providing solutions.
I emplore the Forum mods not to merge this thread, so we can give DE constructive feedback they can work with, rather than having to dredge through 20 pages of arguments, negativity and pure anger to find something helpful!

 

3 things.
      1. I just stated that exact sentiment that this pack is not REMOTELY the same as founder packs, and anyone who would try to argue that it is the same is either misguided, wants to feel important, or is a complete moron... possibly all 3.

      2. Personally I think these skins in specific should've been shelved and revealed as a new in game reward... Like we keep asking for challenging content, and the question is always "What would they even give us as a reward?", well this would be your answer... Heirloom skins... They introduce raids or something that present an actual challenge, but isn't reliant on your build, but on understanding the mechanics, and if you manage to get through the mission or raid without failing, you get an heirloom skin for whatever warframe you used in that mission. Though they should've waited till they had more of them made, but I think that would've made EVERYONE rush to their keyboards and controllers for a shot to get those new skins... and for everyone else, they could purchase it via the store, however the in game ones would come with special effects while the purchasable ones don't... that's how I would've presented them at least... 

      3. If the above doesn't work (which we all know its too late for that so feel free to ignore 2, but DE can feel free to use that for future content *wink wink*) they should make 3 packs instead of the 2 we have... 1 contains both skins at the 90$ with all the nonsense BUT they need to add Mag and Frost to the bundle, even if its just the basic versions with additional slots and everything... the other 2 contain one skin or the other, without the warframe, and throw in some plat, and some of the extra stuff... just get rid of the aya, honestly... things have felt very predatory since the aya came out and the prices on that should've been adjusted LONG ago, but at the same time I understand its to keep certain items valuable enough to purchase the prime packs.

[CatboyPrincess]

8 hours ago, KIREEK said:

It would be unfair to add more options now. Players that made the purchase would feel like they would pick said options given the prior chance, this would instantly turn into a refund nightmare.

>refund nightmare

so what? "oh nooo, DE can't give players refunds or compensation, that would be tooooo much trouble to fix a problem"

when you call this situation a "refund nightmare," what you're really saying is that DE did nothing wrong, or that the players and supporters simply aren't worth the effort to fix something that damages people's relationship with DE. Sneaky language that masks the real issue.

It's been, like, 2 days? Solutions are aplenty and the easiest, least-hassle way to resolve complaints is to deal with it as soon as possible. It will only get harder with every day that passes, the more credit payments are made, and cash gets moved. Providing existing buyers complete and/or partial refund options and/or compensation with an email notice for the sake of the system of Warframe's playerbase and DE would be a lot easier to do RIGHT NOW rather than later.

i don't think anyone will ever resent the people who buy into this pack. What will foster resentment are the asses choose to die defending this hill.

Edited August 29, 2023 by CatboyPrincess