PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[Caerith]

It's a good thing to make it available for either cash or plat, to make the plat version available permanently, and to make it so all the items in the bundle can be purchased separately.  Console players get login bonuses of market coupons, which have a ton of restrictions on them like "can't be used on bundles" so allowing them to buy up the pieces a la cart is a welcome change.

Still, hope they stop doing "you only get one chance" items in general. 

[Grimm]

53 minutes ago, Caerith said:

It's a good thing to make it available for either cash or plat, to make the plat version available permanently, and to make it so all the items in the bundle can be purchased separately.  Console players get login bonuses of market coupons, which have a ton of restrictions on them like "can't be used on bundles" so allowing them to buy up the pieces a la cart is a welcome change.

Still, hope they stop doing "you only get one chance" items in general. 

pc PLAT discounts are also limited to the plat bundles anyway. so your not addition restricted on not being able to use the discount on heirloom or prime access  etc as we cant either. 

[Roble_Viejo]

HEIRLOOM SKINS WILL NEVER BE PAYWALL
AND FOMO EVER AGAIN! THANK YOU DE ❤

[Hexerin]

4 hours ago, Binket_ said:

AND HERE WE GO AGAIN.
HEIRLOOM 2: HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF EDITION.

No Mag, no Frost-- but don't worry guys! "Ember will save the day!"
Welp, only reinforcing my "Don't buy anything from Warframe" verdict.
I don't care how many coupons you give, I'm not buying your Platinum.

I'm ESPECIALLY not paying an insane sum of cash for an overly-hyped Deluxe skin.
That's what I have Tennogen for, which is a practice I can get behind.

 

Welp, time to sift through the trodden debris once it crash lands into the game.
Looking... "forward" to it, truuuuuly...

DE gives ya'll exactly what you want, yet you're sitting here still throwing a tantrum like a child. Grow up.

[Caerith]

2 hours ago, Grimm said:

pc PLAT discounts are also limited to the plat bundles anyway. so your not addition restricted on not being able to use the discount on heirloom or prime access  etc as we cant either. 

You misread me.

[crispb]

Bring back Mag/Frost Heirlooms.  It makes no sense to completely change the structure of Heirlooms without also affecting the ones you started with.  And saying "you can't bring them back".. is total BS.  You literally invented them and placed them in the game.. Did you delete the database/assets?! 

You mean to tell me the two oldest frames, who hardly have any skins to begin with, who finally get a second Deluxe were behind an expensive limited/exclusive FOMO paywall.  Meanwhile frames like Saryn, Excal, Ember, Mesa, Ash, Volt, etc already sitting on 2 or more deluxe skins (not counting voidshell or immortals) that are permanently in the game.. (yes, that's right, ember already has 2 deluxes)

Edited June 1 by crispb

[Binket_]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

DE gives ya'll exactly what you want, yet you're sitting here still throwing a tantrum like a child. Grow up.

There's a hundred ways to say "It's not that simple".

• "There's always a catch."
• "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you."
• "All miracles require sacrifice."
• "Repeating a joke no longer makes it funny."

And more could be said, all equally fitting for this situation-- depending on your flavor of theatrics.

But the point is that "I don't trust it to be that simple. For it to just... be nice by happenstance."
This is Digital Extremes, the company best known for overselling 90% of their updates. _{With another 8% being bad from the announcement at the last 2% being enigmatic.}
Also known making every single facet of their solitary game feel like a Monkey Paw is powering the source code.

Pardon me for coming to the conclusion that "Maybe we shouldn't get our hopes up, because there's probably something going wrong."

 

After all, this is the second iteration of the "Heirloom Pack"-- something I'm vehemently against due to how much of a brazen scam it was.
I'm more concerned that people aren't more skeptical on this, eyeing this with "a dollop of scrutiny and an armed 'No' in their hand."

 

14 hours ago, Caerith said:

Still, hope they stop doing "you only get one chance" items in general.

Considering the Heirloom Packs aren't the first iteration of this garbage? I wouldn't bank on it.

I mean, the "Supporter Packs" have been around for a good while. I used to just... ignore them because it was stuff like Sigils or Glyphs-- stuff you can easily ignore.
After a while? They went to skins, armor sets, etc. and that would normally be fine if they weren't gone forever.
Frankly, I'm genuinely surprised still that even considered bringing back those old Supporter Packs as Plat purchases let alone at all.

The game keeps cycling and recycling. 

 

3 minutes ago, crispb said:

Bring back Mag/Frost Heirlooms.  It makes no sense to completely change the structure of Heirlooms without also affecting the ones you started with.  And saying "you can't bring them back".. is total BS.  You literally invented them and placed them in the game.. Did you delete the database/assets?! 

 While morally I agree with, I can't say it's likely they will... or can.
They dug themselves into a weird situation with the wording of it. Something about law if I remember correctly and how it was advertised.

This is also why the only thing they could do to "quell the pitchforks" of the playerbase was drop some meager Platinum bonuses. ^{_{Or just delete anything against them, but it was bit late for that.}}
The Supporter Packs could back via the silver tongue of a good lawyer, showing that- with the correct phrasing and line of thinking- DE could bring them back.
That was because those didn't explicitly mention something like "being gone forever" or "lost to time" or something to that effect.
... that or they only mentioned the pack, not the contents. This is also why the Tenet Ambassador never returned with the others.
Heirloom fumbled and explicitly said the very things that prevent it from coming back. Therefore they can't without a REALLY good excuse.
^{And considering it took them the entire Deadlock Protocol to consider fixing up some of the problems in the old Corpus Ship tileset? Yeah, you'll need one hell of a miracle for this one.}

I will admit, my knowledge of what exactly holds that back is... limited.
So I encourage you to look further into it if ya want to, don't take my word for verbatim.
^{Though, nobody should take ANYONE'S word as law on the Internet. It's a place of natural deception.}

Personally, the fact that they limited it like this at all is nothing short of disgusting to me. Especially given what they pride themselves on.
Warframe has been around 10 years, DE more or less longer. They absolutely know better by now.
The previous Heirloom pack was intentionally predatory. Nothing more, nothing less.
So naturally? It's good to call them out on this, it's not a simple mistake-- so it falls to be fully reprimanded.

[Kaziroh]

So DE actually made some actual thinking and decided to not only make upcoming Heriloom accessible via Platinum but also let you buy separate stuff from it and let it stay in as Platinum purchase without time gate? Looks like win situation for me.

Kinda sucks that Frost and Mag fans got shafted in that exchange tho. It would be good PR move from DE to make Frost and Mag Heirlooms available in game market as well.

Edited June 1 by Kaziroh

[Jivy]

and people dint believe me when i said mag and frost WONT come back

told ya

[Mazifet]

it's funny to still see people complaining about the new heirloom, even when just about everything people didn't like about it has been changed.

• less than a third of the price of the original? check.
• purchasable with platinum as well? check.
• individual items are also obtainable with platinum? check.

this seems like a massive win for DE, so continuing to whine about an issue that doesn't exist anymore is amusing.

Edited June 1 by Mazifet

[xMarvin732]

6 hours ago, crispb said:

Bring back Mag/Frost Heirlooms.  It makes no sense to completely change the structure of Heirlooms without also affecting the ones you started with.  And saying "you can't bring them back".. is total BS.  You literally invented them and placed them in the game.. Did you delete the database/assets?! 

You mean to tell me the two oldest frames, who hardly have any skins to begin with, who finally get a second Deluxe were behind an expensive limited/exclusive FOMO paywall.  Meanwhile frames like Saryn, Excal, Ember, Mesa, Ash, Volt, etc already sitting on 2 or more deluxe skins (not counting voidshell or immortals) that are permanently in the game.. (yes, that's right, ember already has 2 deluxes)

if they can bring them back, they should also bring out Excalibur Lato and Skana Prime.

[Kaziroh]

3 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

if they can bring them back, they should also bring out Excalibur Lato and Skana Prime.

Good luck with that xD

[DrLego]

I just have some hopes I wanna post here:

1. Frost Heirloom skin came with Frost Heirloom shoulder armor, but Mag Heirloom skin didn't come with Mag Heirloom shoulder armor. I'm hoping that's changed later. Might not be, but would be nice.

2. Does Ember Heirloom skin come with Ember Heirloom shoulder armor? I'd hope so.

3. I'm hoping when the Ember Heirloom Set Pack Whatever comes out that there's a variant pack that includes regal aya.

4. Will Frost and Mag Heirloom owners get a Glyph and Prex card too?

That's all I got. Still, this heirloom idea started out a little rocky but you guys righted the ship like you always do. We all appreciate that, thank you very much.

[xMarvin732]

3 hours ago, Kaziroh said:

Good luck with that xD

And because of that it should stay exclusive :)

[Caerith]

The funny thing about the "there's no way we can bring these things back (without upsetting people who bought because we said we would never bring these things back)" dilemma is that even mobile gacha games solved this problem years ago. 

For people who have too much self respect to know what I mean:

How "Limited" items work:

1. Usually something seasonal, like for an anniversary or a holiday like Halloween or Lunar New Year.
2. Hyped up ahead of that event, made available during that event, then no longer available after that event.
3. A year later, when that event comes back, hype up a new seasonal item and bring back the old seasonal items as "returning for a limited time."
4. If you make an asset, never just let it rot in a warehouse without a plan to be able to sell it again.

How "True Limited" items work:

1. Do a collab with someone else, like KFC or whatever.  Get a lot of lawyers involved on both sides.
2. Clearly state that this collab is "truly limited, these items might never come back."
3. Talk to the other side's lawyers from time to time and see if you can do a rerun eventually.

I get you want to do your own thing, but not learning lessons from others is like the rugged individualism of refusing to brush your teeth. 

 

[Katinka]

9 hours ago, Caerith said:

I get you want to do your own thing, but not learning lessons from others is like the rugged individualism of refusing to brush your teeth.

They didn't even learn the lesson from themselves after the Founders program!  They said that was a product of its time, a desperate move because of the gamble that independently starting this game was, and that it wouldn't happen again.  Yet then the 10 year anniversary gets marred by a return to limited time exclusives...  The new options sound great so far, but the Heirloom brand is still going to have this hanging over it and, if the game continues to get new players, there will people who see those skins for the first time and be disappointed that they can't get them.

[Caerith]

13 hours ago, Katinka said:

there will people who see those skins for the first time and be disappointed that they can't get them.

Yes.  Two things it seems DE does not understand about human nature:

1. If someone sees something they cannot get, they want to get that thing and will pay for it the next chance they get.  If there is no next chance, then what?
2. The FOMO response to "you only get one chance to get this" and the FOMO response to "if you miss your chance you have to wait a whole year for another" are the same response. 

And as others have noted, this is not just an heirloom thing.  There are plenty of cosmetics that are seemingly gone forever.  This is true even with the Pride stuff currently ongoing: there is a new color palette for sale, but why is the old color palette gone when they could just sell both? 

I wish DE would, like, hire someone to manage events and holidays and the like, because sometimes DE feels like a bunch of talented people all doing their own things without communication or coordination.  It doesn't have to be 300 holidays a year, just someone holding the reins to make sure they don't forget Naberus again. 

[HadesxPersephone]

GIVE US MAG AND FROST!!!!!!! I DONT CARE IF I HAVE TO PAY MORE!!! GIVE IIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! 

[Binket_]

On 2024-06-01 at 3:21 PM, Mazifet said:

it's funny to still see people complaining about the new heirloom, even when just about everything people didn't like about it has been changed.

It's more a "how are they going to screw it up THIS time" than actual complaints.
... which is valid considering their history of either royally butchering updates or just releasing things with the intent of never finishing them.
Initial Railjack and Duviri come to mind respectively. Both from different time periods.

Yes, they fixed our MAIN concerns-- but being skeptical is completely expected considering how much a travesty the last pack was.

 

On 2024-06-01 at 3:26 PM, xMarvin732 said:

if they can bring them back, they should also bring out Excalibur Lato and Skana Prime.

To be fair, that same sentiment of "They'll never do that" was proven untrue with the rerelease of the Supporter Pack exclusives.
The idea of "exclusive paid cosmetics" was- and still is- silly. Half because they can always bring it back if they so choose.
... and half because it's just preaching to a small nest of whales who would probably use "peasant" as a genuine insult.

There's a lot of murky law jargon to sift through when it came to the Supporter Pack and I doubt they will for Excal Prime simply BECAUSE of the context behind it.
If they ever release the Frost/Mag Heirloom Skins again, it'll be because they found a way to loophole around the poor "never coming back" terms they used.

 

On 2024-06-01 at 9:54 PM, Caerith said:

How "Limited" items work:

1. Usually something seasonal, like for an anniversary or a holiday like Halloween or Lunar New Year.
2. Hyped up ahead of that event, made available during that event, then no longer available after that event.
3. A year later, when that event comes back, hype up a new seasonal item and bring back the old seasonal items as "returning for a limited time."
4. If you make an asset, never just let it rot in a warehouse without a plan to be able to sell it again.

What makes this even more crazy to me is that DE already does this. They've been doing this for years now.

You already mentioned a few, but they also have for a more detailed list...

• Lunar New Year
• Star Days (Valentines)
• Naberus (Halloween)
• Prime Accessories (Be it Prime Access or Prime Resurgence/Vault)
• Tennobaum/Solstice (Christmas, Winter Themes as well.)
• Dog Days (Practically all of Summer.)
• Plenty of other minor examples too.
  • St. Patrick's Day.
  • Easter.
  • Pride Month.
  • Etc.

Even ingame events tend to come back from time to time. Sometimes as full nodes, sometimes as just the event itself.
They're usually really good about making content available.

Which was ANOTHER kick in the gut with Heirloom, it wasn't just paid with an obscene price-- it was also time locked like the Excal Prime stuff.
Except this time, we KNOW they can handle themselves.
It wasn't like Excal Prime where they were in danger of losing Warframe considering how much they were throwing money at charities and conventions.

 

The funny thing is too, for most of their "collabs"? It's usually on very remote skins that have very awkward rules behind them, ala Phased/Rubedo Plated skins from Steam.
It could also just be things like the platform-specific skins such as Jade, Obsidian, etc.
^{This does mean skins like the Braton "IAHGames Skin", the Aklato "RixtyMOL Skin" or the Amethyst/Prominence Starter Warframe skins will never come back, but y'know. Makes sense in a way.}

Very rarely does DE collab with things in manner for "crossover" material. The "True Limited" example as you mentioned.
Even with things like Twitch Prime, they CAN bring it back. Some items of such already exist in Prime Resurgence.
As such, it's not exactly difficult to assume that they absolutely could bring back the Verv or Iridos sets for example.

So long as they aren't explicitly part of a direct collab such as that one "PUBG" crossover? _{(That I'm still processing as "real".)}
It should be viable to come back. DE just hasn't bothered to yet, which does annoy me.
Doesn't make it excusable though, if they can bring it back? They should at some point.
Heirloom Pack 1 may not be able to come back legally, but morally it should've been available forever to begin with.

 

19 hours ago, Katinka said:

Yet then the 10 year anniversary gets marred by a return to limited time exclusives...

... and most of the community doesn't bat an eye.
Either because they still think DE can't do wrong (which is just brazen rose-tinted lens) or they want to lord over others like some hollow royalty.

For the former? It's almost always players who don't know the full history. Regardless if they would like to hear it or not.
For the latter? Those... things would gladly trade actual lives for a mote of vain pride. Anything (and I mean ANYTHNG) to feel "superior", really.

It's been getting major case of "Nobody remembers how this game is supposed to play anymore"-itis.
New players see the blinding mess that it is today and assume it's the norm.
Older players have to view things so far back that it's just not viable to use an examples anymore. _{^{(At least, I ASSUME that's what it is and not just DE being their usual Monkey Paw self.)}}
Players inbetween are kinda just getting tired and often leave because they start seeing the cracks form, but don't love it enough to stay anyway.

Worst part? I think DE knows. They don't care, that's their winning strategy.

[Mazifet]

8 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

It's more a "how are they going to screw it up THIS time" than actual complaints.
... which is valid considering their history of either royally butchering updates or just releasing things with the intent of never finishing them.
Initial Railjack and Duviri come to mind respectively. Both from different time periods.

Yes, they fixed our MAIN concerns-- but being skeptical is completely expected considering how much a travesty the last pack was.

The thing is, both of those were large, mainline updates while this is a single cosmetic pack. DE would have to be actively trying to mess this up considering the parameters they set during the devstream, and we know they are trying to avoid another disaster like the initial Heirloom collection.

[IcyVinyl]

Why not bring back the Frost and Mag collections back? Because all DE need to do is add them again at the in game market.

[NightmareT12]

5 hours ago, IcyVinyl said:

Why not bring back the Frost and Mag collections back? Because all DE need to do is add them again at the in game market.

It's been explained to hell and back, but I'll go at it again: Most countries (and that probably includes Canada) has laws regarding the advertisement of products by which basically if they advertise a condition such as "exclusive and never available again" in a clear way it's basically part of the purchase contract. In this case, since they did, they'd be breaching the contract, which would let people who purchased it a series of diverse actions.

TL;DR: It's already done and not worth the PR and technical headache, same as Excalibur Prime.

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

It's been explained to hell and back, but I'll go at it again: Most countries (and that probably includes Canada) has laws regarding the advertisement of products by which basically if they advertise a condition such as "exclusive and never available again" in a clear way it's basically part of the purchase contract. In this case, since they did, they'd be breaching the contract, which would let people who purchased it a series of diverse actions.

TL;DR: It's already done and not worth the PR and technical headache, same as Excalibur Prime.

Have these laws come up any of the other times DE has advertised conditions like "exclusive" or "limited time" or "last chance" or so on which were later "breached" in the same manner?

[NightmareT12]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Have these laws come up any of the other times DE has advertised conditions like "exclusive" or "limited time" or "last chance" or so on which were later "breached" in the same manner?

I think this is explained elsewhere in the topic, but Founders and Heirloom are not in the same category since it clearly and explicitly states two conditions:

1. Real money purchase only
2. End of date sale that explicitly bars these from coming ever back.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

I think this is explained elsewhere in the topic, but Founders and Heirloom are not in the same category since it clearly and explicitly states two conditions:

1. Real money purchase only
2. End of date sale that explicitly bars these from coming ever back.

But some of these other examples were also real money purchase only and clearly stated their exclusivity and the end of the date of sale as well?