PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

15 minutes ago, bedainey said:

Yeah sure, you're gonna be flexible in terms purchase options next time. But what about the ones who just wanted the Mag or Frost Skin in particular? Why not reflect on the feedback you receive, you know... now?

This is another good reason to make these skins Tennocon event-locked, rather than one-off exclusives. That way, everyone can get the skins eventually, purchasing options can be changed, and the people who bought it now don't feel screwed since they basically get the skins a year earlier than the people who buy individual items for less. If that undermines the whole 10 year anniversary thing, they can just remove the fancy title from future versions of these packs.

Edited August 31, 2023 by (XBOX)Ampathetiic

[PublikDomain]

10 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Funny story, had to speak to someone today about that and they were saying in response to THAT EXACT THING: "that's nowhere near related, this is totally different".
All while the highest of horses. _{(Surprised they even had reception good enough to talk in space.)}

Like, WHAT?!

• Both are Warframe Cosmetics that completely change the look of the Warframe.
• Both are bought with money. (PLATINUM. IS. MONEY. No two ways around it!!)
• Both are anything but required for gameplay.
• Both have people complaining about the "FOMO" aspect of it.
• Both have bundles associated with them, possibly having SOMETHING a player doesn't want.
• Both were explicitly said to be "LIMITED TIME" with an end date.

But because I was- understandably- annoyed at their gall to keep rebuking everything with "But it's DE, they can do what they want (:"?
Suddenly that means everything was false.

 

You gotta love the shill's total blindness towards the problem... funny too, because those are usually the morons who are in politics or other such seats of power.
Money is a helluva drug, where it- much like any drug misuse- causes it's consumer to have incredibly flawed judgement.

Piggybanks justifying the hammer.

[ArtemystX]

Would have liked to see the Regal Aya removed. I see why it's there, it's so they can get the frames from the prime resurgence, but for people that already have the frames it's useless to them. This combined with the fact that the only way to obtain the skins is for them to buy the pack with half of it's value being something they don't want/need.

Also potentially consider making separate packs for both frames, similarly to how you've done it with unvaultings in the past with 2 prime accesses coming back with the option to buy both or just one specific frame and its respective stuff.

[FlyingDice]

This is an absolute joke of a response and arguably even more tone-deaf than the initial packs.

1. They are still abusing FOMO psychology to push people to buy without considering whether it's wise to do so, despite DE's previous position against post-Founder pack time-limited exclusives.

2. They are still dramatically overpriced with no option to purchase incrementally, despite the very obvious solutions already discussed quite widely.

3. The principle problem with the packs to begin with was that the price was artificially inflated with aya and plat. I am a ten-year veteran with zero need for $40 "worth" of aya (in an odd amount which can't be used conveniently). I likewise have zero need for more plat -- I'm floating ~3.5k plat that I have no real use for and have probably as much again in spare stuff I can't be bothered to sell. Throwing more plat doesn't make it a better deal for anyone outside of a brand new whale.

4. God forbid you make a more sensible change (pull the plat and aya, reduce prices) and then comp/refund people who bought the original bundles if they ask for it.

 

This response actually moved me to change my Steam review to a negative, really disgusting greed on display here.

Edited August 31, 2023 by FlyingDice

[Zahnrad]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Heirloom Collections are intended to be unforgettable (for the right reasons) - we are also discussing ways we can better preserve that feeling of legacy, quality, and prestige for future Heirloom Collections (if we make more).

I knew since the moment I heard about the accidental Playstation leak of this bundle on the day of TennoCon that the Heirlooms were going to be a major controversy and as such I held off writing any opinions as I had faith DE would respond to it.

Now that a response has been made, my main concern with Heirlooms is the time gated nature of it.

I don't want to be hyper negative and say "NEVER MAKE ANOTHER HEIRLOOM!" because truth be told they do look quite good. And I'd be interested to see more of them in the future. Ever since the first Founder Packs the concept of "time limited exclusivity paid products" has for the majority been met with a neutral disdain or outright hatred from most people.

 

So I'd like to make something clear. I'm not against the Heirloom Collection, or even the high price for it. I'm against the Limited Time nature of this current Heirloom collection. I don't want to throw shade on DE for this, since it's a trend in multiple other gaming spheres, but Limited Time content activates that "I need to buy it now or I may never own it!" part of our brain. And while I 100% believe that is effective marketing, I've always hated that practice because it feels deceptive. Even if the people using that tactic aren't trying to be deceptive.

I'd rather DE just went the route of old Update megapacks and just made them availible permanently. Or at least in Rotation similar to Prime Resurgence. True, it would probably clutter things after a while to see 100 different "X Packs" on the Website or etc. But at least it would feel optional and you wouldn't be incentivised or coerced into a rash spending session because of a time crunch.

 

I'd like if the Mag and Frost Heirloom collection came back in the future after it expires. But as stated in the OP, it's hard to think of what to give players that doesn't cause another exclusive.

I'd say either give the players who purchased it during the Time Gate an even larger amount of plat than in the OP (I'm not a videogame economist so I'm unsure how well that would play out) or give players Physical IRL merch. Something that doesn't exist in the game itself.

If the above fail, you could try to source the Community itself for options, or perhaps email those players directly to ask what they want as compensation (barring Founder stuff of course)

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

DE. I appreciate the changes and willingness to make adjustments and accommodate your player base and consumers. I think the changes are somewhat reasonable, given certain assumptions I have, that may, or may not be accurate about, the difficulty in trying to implement or enforce larger changes or adjustments, so at a minimum, once again, appreciate the intent behind receiving, listening to feedback and thus seeking in insert more value into a product and to sate/oblige us. 

I would still like to voice some general criticisms and objections I hold. 

Firstly, the aspect of FOMO present here. I find it very anti-consumer and even anti-community. I understand and acknowledge that FOMO is quite widespread in the gaming world, and I imagine that its very lucrative and effective tool in generating money and profit. I don't know the stress, or pressure involved in managing a game like Warframe, and the costs involved, and what is or isn'r realistic, or inevitable. I can say the following though. Warframe is a FTP, but I have spent real currency on it many times. As anyone at DE could probably verify via my account. Most of the reason I have spent that money, is because I believe that DE and Warframe, is relatively more ethical, consumer friendly, and does its best to avoid conforming to certain industry practices that may enter into subjectively speaking, predatory practices. I am not an expert on your (DE's history), but I sometime remember a few videos and Documentaries, presentations, DE employees have given about the challenges, perspectives and ideas that were important to them. How many games Producers wanted early DE to make them a world war shooter instead of taking on ideas like Warframe. The risks that were involved in many of your decisions. Thats why I personally have been willing to spend money. More money that I have ever spent on a single video game. I simply don't play many of those other games out there that engage in heavy FOMO or other practices I consider anti-consumer or overly greedy. 

I am aware that there is a little FOMO wrapped up in your history. Personally, the first instance isn't that much of an actual issue to me. The landscape seemed much different, Warframe was a risk at the start, you needed backers and support and people willing to take a risk alongside you. Its entirely possible that things didn't work out, for you guys or them. I also understand its tiring when people always ask "Is XYZalibur Prime ever coming back?".

However... a big part of why I enjoy the game, and consider FOMO anti community, is because I will engage with Warframe content creators, I will go into many of the hubs you have for players, I will team up with others and... we all have these unique, stylish, cool visual characters. 99% of the time, I see someone with a really cool fashion, whether its a Brozime, or Tactical Potato video, or whether its a Friday Community Stream or I am giving out a Relay Blessing, or just playing the game in co-op... I see people with skins, in different colours, armours, Syandana, Ephemera. 99% of the time, I can acquire what they are wearing. Even if its a Prime Accessory or Tennogen, there is someway, that I can also eventually have it also. Also... thats true for people that see my fashion, and choice in cosmetics. I can recommend, and point them how to get what I am wearing. Doesn't matter if they are brand new, been playing for years, so much of the fashion, cosmetics, weapons etc is available or will at the least rotate back in frequently enough. Enough that FOMO isn't that heavy. 

Generally and mostly. I know you have had sometimes timed exclusives on cosmetics, but usually they aren't bigger noticeable cosmetics like skins, let alone the quality and prestige of these new Heirloom skins. 

If I were to buy these skins, I am the kind of person, that in 1 years time, someone in a Relay might ask... "Hey, your Mag fashion is so cool, can you tell me what it is?" normally I could say... "Its the Mag Pneuma Skin, its a Deluxe skin. I also have Acanthus Prime armor set, it was with Nekros Prime Accessories, you can get it with Regal Aya occasionally. The colours I use are from Storm palette, which you can purchase from Market, and Pride palette, which is free at certain times of the year. 

That won't be possible with Heirloom skins. "Sorry, these were exclusive to people for 4 months in 2023" and that to me, is just sad. Doesn't feel good. Wouldn't feel good. Its also something I have never really needed to think about, outside You Know Who Prime, which I already explained, I think is a fine exception. Yes a few Tennocon Ticket and Supporter packs had some exclusive skins for weapons or some Armor pieces, but ehhh. Not quite the same as Mynki designed Deluxe Warframe skins of this quality. 

I have other issues that I am critical and weary about, but the timed exclusivity is probably the biggest. I also don't like how divisive it can be to the community. I vaguely remember a Steve video, where he was discussing the nature of FTP, and how a Warframe player messaged him about how great the game was, but they also made some unsavoury comments about some of the other players, and how it influenced and affected his (Steves) vision of what the game should be. I thought it was an admirable thing, that he didn't want FTP players to be looked down upon, or judged by players who could afford more. I think its sad that some Warframe players have had the attitude of "just don't be poor" to some of their fellow fans, and also that some fans have rumoured to have been treated negatively/rudely by their fellow fans for purchasing the skin, because of some of the implications. Neither is great behaviour from us as fans and consumers. However... thats the sort of behaviour and attitudes FOMO style content with the prices you are talking about, can create. "Quick get them before they are gone and its too late... also, these are some of our most expensive packs ever, can only get them for cash, and they are filled with other items that are always available anyway... so... you can't just use real money to quickly just purchase the item thats going to be permanently retired"... Like, I think this could have been anticipated. 

TL;DR version. Please avoid such FOMO heavy tactics, if you really can. Please continue to remain a consumer friendly company, and relatively above some of the more greedy practices I see in many other games, and thus avoid playing those other games.

If you are ever thinking of doing something like this again, maybe announce the plans before settling on the details and specifics, or consult some content creators, or the community. I get such things can be sensitive, but if fairness is the issue as far as players who make purchases and the "fairness" of that, then please consider the fairness of fans who are put out by such decisions as well. Just adding "more Plat" to bundles isn't always the best solution or going to fix things for people. 

Thanks for reading/listening. Thank you for addressing the situation too and attempting to make some changes to increase the value. 

[PrimeEnLightenedShadow]

The two steps over the line, one step back bullsh!t.  Again.  How typical of you.

Tencent trying to squeeze every penny they can out of you before you crash?

[SafeRoom]

Gotta love how the Devs haven't made any additional replies about this other than the initial post.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Dragoon said:

Until they come out and say in black and white WHAT the packs will be in the future, their promise of being "dedicated to ensuring all future Heirloom Collection releases have more purchase flexibility and reflect all feedback we received during this launch" mean just as much as their promise of never having timed-exclusive content like Excalibur Prime ever again.

This can't be said enough times. Feel-good statements giving the illusion that these decisions are for your best interest don't have the desired effect when there is an ongoing track record of behavior in the opposite direction. The whole "fairness" and "respecting purchases" conversation is out the window when the package sold was disrespectful from the get-go.

There was no mention either on changing functionality of the Heirloom Accolade to represent and acknowledge 10 years and millions of dollars in purchases from existing players. If the Accolade is to represent 10 years of support, than anyone with a purchase between the time-frame of Disciple Founder to Wisp Prime Access should have this Accolade.

I also despise the practice of making something over the top, and then backtracking to a middle ground that is worse than where you started.

The complaints involve so many factors of this issue and the bare minimum was done. This happened with Regal Aya as well as Tauforged Archon Shards. Regal Aya still imposes a system where you are just shy of a package and are encouraged to over-purchase. This just happened in Wayfinder as well. As much as I love this game, and appreciate the developers who work on it, this ongoing trend of slow-cooking players with this behavior won't stop until there is serious financial harm on the table as a result from biting the hand that feeds them.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Voltage

[FelPlague]

6 hours ago, Naohero said:

This bundle has come a long way from the value of the Founders' bundles. This has to be the most overpriced, FOMO filled product I have ever seen Digital Extremes release. I predict DE will use these opportunities again in the future like it did with Regal Aya to push and test the players on how much it can exploit us until we become complacent.

I would hardly call the founders bundle value, to get the lato prime was 150$ if I remember correctly? 
Was the only founders pack I didnt get cause it was just such a huge boost of cost.

[Kromatia]

While this wasn't my preferred fix for this situation, it helped justify my desire to spend the $100 on the big pack, as it came more in line with the Prime Access packs that I have purchased. Thank you guys for hearing our feedback. It's disappointing that there aren't skin-only packs for a much lower price, but at least the value of the packs have been altered to better reflect their price points.

[NecroPed]

Just now, FelPlague said:

I would hardly call the founders bundle value, to get the lato prime was 150$ if I remember correctly? 
Was the only founders pack I didnt get cause it was just such a huge boost of cost.

It did come with like 5.5k more platinum, and a landmark in the game with your name or something so I do feel it still held value, it was just such a high price to hit. I too felt the price was a big jump, and only made it to excaliburs tier because my payday was a couple days out from when it ended. Master was the sweet spot I wanted though, design council was the big one I wanted (been accepted now but lost my forum founders badge as a result lol) but I still saw value in the plat and skana, but the jump up from there was pretty insane. It would have worked out to over $200(aud) extra for me just for the last tier.

[Binket_]

11 minutes ago, SafeRoom said:

Gotta love how the Devs haven't made any additional replies about this other than the initial post.

"I send my Scourge, I send my sword..."

Gotta keep that flame going. It's the only thing they chose to hear.
So that their arrogance be matched with a voice that said "No" with a greater omen.
An omen to topple an empire, though it seems impossible? History has told time and time again.
Fictional or otherwise, destruction almost always follows ignorance.
A voice is either heard or it is felt. A voice is either heeded or is it the rumbling that follows.

Your move DE, we're waiting.

[Lionsheart89]

31 minutes ago, SafeRoom said:

Gotta love how the Devs haven't made any additional replies about this other than the initial post.

The overall response to their post could have been avoided if they had actually listened. I'd imagine that they are slightly taken aback, but they should have known what was going to happen. Megan, you are great, but come on now. Maybe they did and wanted to see if the pros outweighed the cons. As others have said though...swing and a miss. Keep the pressure on them, I say.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Lionsheart89

[Scarpsychic]

ETA on the hotfix?

[NecroPed]

31 minutes ago, SafeRoom said:

Gotta love how the Devs haven't made any additional replies about this other than the initial post.

To be fair, there's about 45k comments already, that's a ridiculous amount of feedback to read, let alone respond to. And they would potentially need to internally discuss things before speaking out about it too. 

[FlyingDice]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

because they can't afford it. This is about the price. People are mad that its too expensive

No, it's about the principle of it. $90 means nothing to me, I spend more than that on takeout and drinks every weekend. I've spent more than 10x that on WF stuff. But when 2/3rds of that price is stuff I do not want or need (Aya + plat) and cannot remove from the purchase, when that stuff has blatantly been stuffed in just to jack up the price, and when they've layered on the FOMO to push people into wasting their money on a bunch of junk alongside what they want, it's morally wrong to reward them for being scummy.

Edited August 31, 2023 by FlyingDice

[(XBOX)Sarynz]

Ok I been playing 3 yrs. An SOME can't shell out $100 for some stuff. I'd definately buy this IF plat an aya was took off. Or give and option for it to be SMALLER bundles, make a bundle of JUST mag and separate ones for JUST frost. NO plat or aya. I have no use for either. And the option to use plat to buy the smaller bundles. I enjoy this game and would enjoy being able have that option. Thanks

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by (XBOX)Sarynz

[Arkrom]

To quote someone above, this sets a very ugly precedent, and the feedback was twisted and turned to benefit DE.

This is a far cry from the reintroduction of prime accessories praise you're going to get, but ohh well, if you're heading in that direction, so be it.

[Vortex]

21 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

"snif..."

Oh noes!

Whatever...

[Niinyy]

are these changes out yet? because steam and ingame shop still lists as 600 plat for the zenith pack

4 minutes ago, Arkrom said:

To quote someone above, this sets a very ugly precedent, and the feedback was twisted and turned to benefit DE.

This is a far cry from the reintroduction of prime accessories praise you're going to get, but ohh well, if you're heading in that direction, so be it.

you have until the end of the year to buy this. theres no FOMO here, you have plenty of time.

[Hallowieners]

The changes are an improvement, but I hope future heirlooms will have more purchasing freedom instead of trying to convince players to buy more than they need. 

[PublikDomain]

4 minutes ago, Niinyy said:

you have until the end of the year to buy this. theres no FOMO here, you have plenty of time.

That's literally FOMO?

[SephirothWS]

4 minutes ago, Niinyy said:

you have until the end of the year to buy this. theres no FOMO here, you have plenty of time.

No matter the length of time that the packs are available, the fact that they ARE time limited is what triggers the entire FOMO portion of the feedback here. Just because there's 4 months left doesn't mean its non-FOMO. Try again.

I still want to see the skins themselves and the color palette made available in the in-game market for platinum.

[Binket_]

5 minutes ago, Vortex said:

Oh noes!

Whatever...

Glad to see your word is as insightful as your money is well spent.

Down the drain, to a consequence beyond your own.