The tennokai system is insanely good

[ImTeijirr]

Hi, I came back to play the game for the new update and I'm having a blast. As a melee fanboy, my favorite change is the tennokai system. It's just so good.

It encourages players to play hybrid melee playstyle which is the most fun I had with melee since starting the game. I have no idea if pure light/heavy attacks builds are better, but I'm never going back to that anyway because I find it so much less fun that hybrid and using 100% of a weapon's potential. Timing heavies is fun, and getting the new mods in the new games modes is very enjoyable for me too.

This update is a huge success for me. I see a lot of games disappointing fans over and over again with updates, yet DE is here making the best F2P farming game and improving it with banger updates like this one.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

This makes most melee obsolete all because they don't have high base crit for "Blood Rush" or don't have a good Heavy Attack. Stances with forced Slash procs are all in. Everything else is ignored. It's a nice playstyle change for sure. At the cost of putting lots of melee weapons into the mastery fodder pile. 

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

This makes most melee obsolete all because they don't have high base crit for "Blood Rush" or don't have a good Heavy Attack. Stances with forced Slash procs are all in. Everything else is ignored. It's a nice playstyle change for sure. At the cost of putting lots of melee weapons into the mastery fodder pile. 

If anything, tennokai makes more weapons viable since being able to use heavy attacks more frequently increase sustained dps. You don't need forced slash procs to deal with armor, even before tennokai and melee arcanes. Raw damage and priming was all that was needed to deal with base SP Grineer and this new Netracell content. If you wanted to deal with higher level enemies (there is little incentive for most players), yeah you'd want to force slash if you weren't armor stripping. Even a difference of ±1.0x crit multiplier between melee weapons isn't enough to matter on base SP. At the end of the day, we deal too much damage for this new powercreep to be warranted.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

2 hours ago, ImTeijirr said:

Hi, I came back to play the game for the new update and I'm having a blast. As a melee fanboy, my favorite change is the tennokai system. It's just so good.

It encourages players to play hybrid melee playstyle which is the most fun I had with melee since starting the game. I have no idea if pure light/heavy attacks builds are better, but I'm never going back to that anyway because I find it so much less fun that hybrid and using 100% of a weapon's potential. Timing heavies is fun, and getting the new mods in the new games modes is very enjoyable for me too.

This update is a huge success for me. I see a lot of games disappointing fans over and over again with updates, yet DE is here making the best F2P farming game and improving it with banger updates like this one.

Haven’t gotten to try it yet but the hybrid potential definitely has me interested because my Voruna is hybrid 

[Hexerin]

Wouldn't know, the Operator Void Blast issue prevents me from using Tennokai.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

I don't really think it encourages build diversity at all. It doesn't use combo, therefore you do not need to build for initial combo. It already swings faster then normal heavy attacks so you don't need wind up speed mods. The only thing you could add to a build is reflex coil. Not saying tennokai is bad or a poor addition (I rather enjoy it) but it doesn't lead to more  build diversity imo.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 hour ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

This makes most melee obsolete all because they don't have high base crit for "Blood Rush" or don't have a good Heavy Attack. Stances with forced Slash procs are all in. Everything else is ignored. It's a nice playstyle change for sure. At the cost of putting lots of melee weapons into the mastery fodder pile. 

I'm pretty sure that has always been the case for melee weapons even before this update. Tennokai just makes the meta weapons even more meta.

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I don't really think it encourages build diversity at all. It doesn't use combo, therefore you do not need to build for initial combo. It already swings faster then normal heavy attacks so you don't need wind up speed mods. The only thing you could add to a build is reflex coil. Not saying tennokai is bad or a poor addition (I rather enjoy it) but it doesn't lead to more  build diversity imo.

Not the build diversity!!!11!!

Edited December 19, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[ReddyDisco]

Haven't gotten all melee arcanes yet so can't really comment on improvement of melee. Tennokai does make using melee a bit engaging  

[(XBOX)K1jker]

I just wish the stupid lifted status wouldn't exist. It always flings enemies outside melee range for me, and doesn't feel like DmC juggling at All .

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

11 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I'm pretty sure that has always been the case for melee weapons even before this update. Tennokai just makes the meta weapons even more meta.

A good addition would be Tennokai procs all status on the weapon. Most status melee runs Condition Overload. This would help somewhat.

[Raarsi]

Feels really good on melee incarnons, especially when you're an idiot like me that modded attack speed on Praedos and getting instant-cast heavy attacks.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

15 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

This makes most melee obsolete all because they don't have high base crit for "Blood Rush" or don't have a good Heavy Attack. Stances with forced Slash procs are all in. Everything else is ignored. It's a nice playstyle change for sure. At the cost of putting lots of melee weapons into the mastery fodder pile. 

And incarnon weapons didn't? Bro you're acting like most melees were meta or something, but it literally hasn't been this way since guns got buffed (and that was before incarnon guns with crazy multipliers).

They added melee arcanes at the very least so I think this is a good change overall.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

They added melee arcanes at the very least so I think this is a good change overall.

Only way to go is to introduce Gun Stances.

[Xzorn]

DE trying to push melee + gun isn't new at all. They started with the Pistol + Glaive system which worked amazingly thanks to CO.

Since then they've removed the combo multiplier damage, made it very fast to gain and added arcanes to get bonuses from swapping there's still three flaws, Two of them major. Blood Rush still gives the highest Crit and Melee combo timer is still a base of 5s but instead of just making it 10s they even added a pistol duration mod.

The last isn't as much ad issue since Viral status is so insane yet most status effects cap making over 100% status pretty meh. Weeping Wounds.

BTW did anyone notice they nerf'd Exodia Triumph? It's 50% chance for addition combo count instead of 100%.
Give a Riven powered Cyath is still among the strongest polearms I was considering it the past few weeks but RIP.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

And incarnon weapons didn't? Bro you're acting like most melees were meta or something, but it literally hasn't been this way since guns got buffed (and that was before incarnon guns with crazy multipliers).

They added melee arcanes at the very least so I think this is a good change overall.

You have to ask yourself why DE added Heavy Attack in the first place. Not all guns have a Alt Fire mode. Take for instances the rapier stance Vulpine Mask. The combos are mainly forward stabs. Only one enemy unit can be hit at a time. Then there's heavy sword stance Tempo Royale. Most of the combo are wide swing arc hitting multiple enemy units. There are melee weapons that DE design bad. Then there's out right design flaws.

[Xzorn]

I didn't note any gun buffs. Just typical power creep.
What I did note was melee nerfs and comparative nerfs to statuses which melee excelled at.

Use a popular 2hander from when I left. Gram Prime. Damage increased from 180 to 300 then a diminishing stat called "follow through" was added.

Originally this would have been 720 at a 4x combo and Blood Rush would have been +660% Cirt instead of +480%. Weeping Wounds now gives more from 160% but as I mentioned having more than 100% status doesn't really do a lot compared to Crit and Base damage. Lastly they reduced all the stance modifier bonuses. Cleaving Whirlwind's previous +300% hit twice bonus is now half that value. They also ruined some weapons by adding air juggling because someone still thinks that's a good thing.

So no, I didn't see a gun buff. I saw melee getting dumped on hard.

[ShogunGunshow]

Coming soon a tennokai mod that strips 100% of armor before applying the damage.

Just to really lean in to how stupidly one-dimensional buildcrafting is nowadays.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

23 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

This makes most melee obsolete all because they don't have high base crit for "Blood Rush" or don't have a good Heavy Attack. Stances with forced Slash procs are all in. Everything else is ignored. It's a nice playstyle change for sure. At the cost of putting lots of melee weapons into the mastery fodder pile. 

Wait....huh!?

That's not what I'm experiencing at all!! If anything, it's changing the way I look at my entire loadout, focusing on either maintaining efficiency, extending range or boosting AOE based stat procs. I wasn't much of a heavy attack user but now there's a really nice balance in both pure and hybrid options, so I'm now creating more loadouts to reflect this. Tennokai is good stuff!

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2023-12-19 at 4:49 PM, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

You have to ask yourself why DE added Heavy Attack in the first place. 

To give you something outside of spamming normal attacks? To give you one big attack instead of multiple smaller ones? 

Just because some weapons are better at heavy attacks compared to others doesn't mean they're all useless. 

Your comparison on Rapiers doesn't even make sense because one is a single handed weapon vs a two handed weapon that literally says in it's description (galantine for example) that it's made for multiple enemies. Also Rapier is faster compared to heavy blades and doesn't need as much attack speed to feel good.

Not to mention that rapiers are stab weapons, not slash weapons, otherwise it'd just be another sword/Nikana which are the categories used for cutting swords. 

It doesn't matter if it's harder to combo because the whole point of tennokai is saving your combo so it legitimately doesn't matter if you're building it more slowly or not.

Edited December 21, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

i think tennokai has potential and is merely a rough gem in the making of polishing it up later 

its IMO a replacement to channeling and channeling 2.0 aka devil trigger mode , as in this state exalted melee and normal melee can both empower and benifit based on the system which was prior discussed

my only annoyance is its locked behind grind walls when channel was prior was free for all not a buy slot/mod setup