Secondary weapons capacity

[Waeleto]

anyone else having capacity issues with the introduction of primed convulsion ?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Its a 16 point mod at max rank, you're probably gonna have to throw another forma on the weapons you want to use it on. 

[Waeleto]

Just now, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Its a 16 point mod at max rank, you're probably gonna have to throw another forma on the weapons you want to use it on. 

Here's the problem, i have forma on every spot even exilus

[(PSN)robotwars7]

6 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Here's the problem, i have forma on every spot even exilus

Well, then you may still have to forma over a slot a second time for it. This is how the modding system is, a give and take. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by (PSN)robotwars7

[Tsukinoki]

And this is the exact reason for the forma and polarity system!

So you can't just slap every single powerful mod onto a weapon without thinking and that you have to adjust your build over time, especially if you want to completely min-max your weapon for the highest possible whatever (damage, statuses, etc).

 

You are experiencing exactly what the modding system is supposed to do:
Make you have to make choices as to what you're going to use and give up on other options.

 

The point of the system is that you can't just slap on every single primed mod and every other meta choice and dust off your hands and call it a day.

 

If you're running into a capacity issue then consider your build and what you can actually use and what you might be able to give up on for a little bit more of something else.

Maybe this means giving up on some status chance, maybe it means giving up on reload speed, or ammo mutation or even a base damage mod (depending on weapon and playstyle and what arcane you put into your secondary this is actually 100% viable even for high level SP missions).

Edited December 29, 2023 by Tsukinoki

[Silligoose]

It is getting to the point where one would have to have max forma a weapon just to fit a specific minmax build, giving up decent diversity in the other loadout slots and while I understand wanting to attain max performance, it is actually such as waste: It simply means more overkill on normal enemies, while not performing as advertised against enemies that matter due to damage attenuation.

[-Krism-]

53 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Here's the problem, i have forma on every spot even exilus

That's why the capacity system is here in the first place, it's so you can't just slap every high capacity mods available, you have to make compromises & think carefully what you can & can't put on your weapons

[Tiltskillet]

28 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Maybe this means giving up on some status chance, maybe it means giving up on reload speed, or ammo mutation or even a base damage mod (depending on weapon and playstyle and what arcane you put into your secondary this is actually 100% viable even for high level SP missions).

Most likely means giving up or downgrading an exilus, which is a non-issue on many weapons, and not -too- big a deal on many more.  Hurts quite a bit on some though.   A riven might require downgrading another mod.

The new mod is an interesting case.  I'd guess a fair number of  people are going for radiation,  especially given the new content, and PHC already exists.  Plus there's not much reason to pump radiation status, so the normal outlet of "downgrading" to a 60/60 mod doesn't apply so well.   Shotguns were in a similar situation when Primed Chilling Grasp came out, and I read similar complaints, even though there was much, much less incentive to build Magnetic.  Radiation damage has a lot more applications.

I'm just musing though.  I have no problem with capacity having a ceiling that has to be worked around and not just forma'd around.  And I don't feel like DE is obligated to add capacity every time they give us a new primed mod. Although I also don't particularly care if DE adds more capacity or lowers the cost of some mods, for instance exilus.

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And this is the exact reason for the forma and polarity system!

So you can't just slap every single powerful mod onto a weapon without thinking and that you have to adjust your build over time, especially if you want to completely min-max your weapon for the highest possible whatever (damage, statuses, etc).

 

You are experiencing exactly what the modding system is supposed to do:
Make you have to make choices as to what you're going to use and give up on other options.

 

The point of the system is that you can't just slap on every single primed mod and every other meta choice and dust off your hands and call it a day.

 

If you're running into a capacity issue then consider your build and what you can actually use and what you might be able to give up on for a little bit more of something else.

Maybe this means giving up on some status chance, maybe it means giving up on reload speed, or ammo mutation or even a base damage mod (depending on weapon and playstyle and what arcane you put into your secondary this is actually 100% viable even for high level SP missions).

I personally have no issues with sacrificing something, but unless we get a possibility to delevel mods for loadouts, it is simply not possible, unless you have a multiple copies of the same mod for different ranks
Which, again, is mostly unfeasible.

 

And, quite frankly, it is especially frustrating since:

1) Kuva and Tenet weapons have up 80 max capacity

2) War frames can have auras that can boost capacity above 70

 

And in all cases, we can fit up 9 mods (10 for warframes with aura), thus creating an uneven split for capacity per spot

Edited December 29, 2023 by TsukuyomiNoGeki

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

unless you have a multiple copies of the same mod for different ranks
Which, again, is mostly unfeasible.

I don't see it as unfeasible.  I do a ton of this already.  It is messy though, given the limitations of the modding screens. More favoriting / sorting / default options could help. 

Being able to underclock mods at will would solve the problem, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

[(NSW)Greybones]

What are you using, how are you building it, and where are you taking it?

[Birdframe_Prime]

See, initially I'm with @Tsukinoki on this one. The limitations of the Forma and Mod Point system are intentional and do have a solid balancing reason in the game.

However.

I am also acutely aware that Primary and Secondary weapons are genuinely at a massive disadvantage compared to Melee and Warframe modding. In fact, we see this problem with Ability Melee weapons, because they don't have a Mod Point increase from their Stances.

Let's do some maths here, because it's very important.

Secondary weapons have 60 Mod Points and 9 slots to fill, including the Exilus. This averages out to allowing 6.66 Mod Points per slot.

Spoiler

Do you notice something there? The highest-costing mods are 16 points for the most draining normal mods and 18 points for Rivens. With polarisation that puts them at 8 and 9 points respectively for the slots they're in.

Let's put a standard build on, not an endgame one with Galvanised mods, just a standard one for high damage to the enemy's face.

We'll start with Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent for 7, 6 and 6 points with matched polarities. Get our Crit on there with Primed Pistol Gambit and Primed Target Cracker, 6 and 7 respectively. Put on some Corrosive with Pathogen Rounds and Convulsion, 6 each. Riven, naturally, for 9 and then we put something simple like Steady Hands in the Exilus for 5.

That's a total of 58 mod points. Simple, right? Fits. Does the job.

So lets change this around a bit, we want to put on the Primed Convulsion. That's 8 points, and it's now a full 60 point build.

What are you going to do about Galvanised Diffusion, then? That's 7, but the basic Barrel Diffusion is only 6, So you need to spare a spot. What you'll need to do is drop Pathogen Rounds for Pistol Pestilence, that's only 4 points, and your build is down to 59 total again, simple.

Except... where do you go from there? You could drop Hornet Strike for Galvanised Shot, and combine that with the Arcanes for damage instead, that would save you a couple of points.

Maybe you would drop Primed Pistol Gambit for Creeping Bullseye, and then Steady Hands goes for Trick Mag, so now you have more points available... do you still use Primed Convulsion? You could maybe roll the Element onto your Riven, so you have the Toxin there, and if you're doing that you could run a Corrosive and Heat build.

Do you have enough for Primed Heated Charge?

It's a balance. (As a point, yes, you have exactly 60 points used if you run a build of Galvanised Shot, Galvanised Diffusion, Creeping Bullseye, Primed Target Cracker, Lethal Torrent, a Riven, Primed Convulsion, Primed Heated Charge and Trick Mag. It's 6, 7, 5, 7, 6, 9, 8, 8 and 4 after polarisation. That's a nine Forma build on a blank gun, a 7 Forma build on most other guns.)

Is having every single slot polarised supposed to be necessary just for a simple, high damage crit/corrosive/heat build? When having that build only just allows it to use 60 points?

Let's compare that to a Melee weapon.

A melee weapon has a Stance, which adds 10 points, and we now have an Exilus, which means 9 slots splitting 70 points. That's 7.77 points per slot, which is immediately better, if you see.

Spoiler

Again, standard build.

No funny business, a straight up hit-them-in-the-face build, with the same basics as the Secondary one.

We'll assume the Stance is on correctly. Primed Pressure Point and Primed Fury for a lovely 7 each, we're within budget on these two. Primed Fever Strike and Shocking Touch for Corrosive at 8 and 6 respectively, another average of 14 for budget. Organ Shatter and Body Count at 5 each to keep us under, and we'll put Dispatch Overdrive in the Exilus for another 5.

Then we'll put on a Riven for 9 points, which is over budget.

Do you notice what we've got here? A free slot still, and how many points have we used? We've used 52 points. Leaving us with a total of 18 points free.

I can put on Sacrificial Steel without Forma.

Without the Stance I can put on Sacrificial Steel with Forma, because it's then 8 points, but that's not what's important.

What's important is that I have an entirely free slot that can put... anything in there. Anything in the game. I could put a Riven in that slot instead. I could Forma the Sacrificial Steel slot, and have an 18 point Riven in the free slot instead, with 1 mod point to spare.

And that's not even the end of this. If I wanted to trade things out, I can.

Swap Body Count for Drifting Contact and I've got another 2 points. Drop Shocking Touch for Voltaic Strike and I've got 2 more. Heck, let's roll the Element on the Riven to Cold instead, so we have Viral with Primed Fever Strike, drop Voltaic Strike entirely and go with Blood Rush and swap Primed Pressure Point for Condition Overload and we've still not used all 70 points.

Now with this build we have a scaling Viral build, that has an un-Forma'd Sacrificial Steel in there and 2 points spare. All because of that Stance giving us the 10 extra.

You can take the polarity off Drifting Contact's slot too, and now you have a weapon that only needs 7 Forma to put on the full build. Heck, swap Primed Fury out for Gladiator Vice for even more scaling Crit, and you could drop Opportunity's Reach in there to activate Tenno Kai (which is awesome) without a Forma on the Exilus either.

For some weapons that's 6 Forma, for some with built-in polarities, that could be only 4

So... With a Stance in there, you can put on a full, comfortable build for only 6 Forma. 4 if you have innate polarities on the weapon. And not just that, one that's using only 4 forma while having a 16 point mod in there without a Forma. Just floating free. Where any other mod could come in to replace it, or you could Forma that one to get 8 more points available to you for any other combination of silliness.

Which... doesn't seem quite fair, by comparison, now does it?

It just occurs to me that...

Primary and Secondary weapons, along with the Ability Melee, are at a distinct disadvantage in the mod Capacity side of things.

Crazy as it seems, the Primary and Secondary Arcanes, at least the Steel Path ones, could have been 'gun stances' instead. Granting the exact same effects, no different, except that they raise the Mod Points by 10 just like Melee Stances do.

That way, all of our weapons would be on an even footing every one would have a flex slot in the same way, or have lower Forma costs for a full build in general.

So...

I guess there kind of is a Capacity issue, like OP's pointing out?

[trst]

I don't see any issues here as it is just the modding system working as intended. Plus there isn't even any content in the game (that isn't mindless endless for the sake of endless) that even warrants a fully forma'd weapon min-maxed for fitting all the highest capacity mods.

 

49 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

See, initially I'm with @Tsukinoki on this one. The limitations of the Forma and Mod Point system are intentional and do have a solid balancing reason in the game.

However.

I am also acutely aware that Primary and Secondary weapons are genuinely at a massive disadvantage compared to Melee and Warframe modding. In fact, we see this problem with Ability Melee weapons, because they don't have a Mod Point increase from their Stances.

Let's do some maths here, because it's very important.

Secondary weapons have 60 Mod Points and 9 slots to fill, including the Exilus. This averages out to allowing 6.66 Mod Points per slot.

  Reveal hidden contents

Do you notice something there? The highest-costing mods are 16 points for the most draining normal mods and 18 points for Rivens. With polarisation that puts them at 8 and 9 points respectively for the slots they're in.

Let's put a standard build on, not an endgame one with Galvanised mods, just a standard one for high damage to the enemy's face.

We'll start with Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent for 7, 6 and 6 points with matched polarities. Get our Crit on there with Primed Pistol Gambit and Primed Target Cracker, 6 and 7 respectively. Put on some Corrosive with Pathogen Rounds and Convulsion, 6 each. Riven, naturally, for 9 and then we put something simple like Steady Hands in the Exilus for 5.

That's a total of 58 mod points. Simple, right? Fits. Does the job.

So lets change this around a bit, we want to put on the Primed Convulsion. That's 8 points, and it's now a full 60 point build.

What are you going to do about Galvanised Diffusion, then? That's 7, but the basic Barrel Diffusion is only 6, So you need to spare a spot. What you'll need to do is drop Pathogen Rounds for Pistol Pestilence, that's only 4 points, and your build is down to 59 total again, simple.

Except... where do you go from there? You could drop Hornet Strike for Galvanised Shot, and combine that with the Arcanes for damage instead, that would save you a couple of points.

Maybe you would drop Primed Pistol Gambit for Creeping Bullseye, and then Steady Hands goes for Trick Mag, so now you have more points available... do you still use Primed Convulsion? You could maybe roll the Element onto your Riven, so you have the Toxin there, and if you're doing that you could run a Corrosive and Heat build.

Do you have enough for Primed Heated Charge?

It's a balance. (As a point, yes, you have exactly 60 points used if you run a build of Galvanised Shot, Galvanised Diffusion, Creeping Bullseye, Primed Target Cracker, Lethal Torrent, a Riven, Primed Convulsion, Primed Heated Charge and Trick Mag. It's 6, 7, 5, 7, 6, 9, 8, 8 and 4 after polarisation. That's a nine Forma build on a blank gun, a 7 Forma build on most other guns.)

Is having every single slot polarised supposed to be necessary just for a simple, high damage crit/corrosive/heat build? When having that build only just allows it to use 60 points?

Let's compare that to a Melee weapon.

A melee weapon has a Stance, which adds 10 points, and we now have an Exilus, which means 9 slots splitting 70 points. That's 7.77 points per slot, which is immediately better, if you see.

  Reveal hidden contents

Again, standard build.

No funny business, a straight up hit-them-in-the-face build, with the same basics as the Secondary one.

We'll assume the Stance is on correctly. Primed Pressure Point and Primed Fury for a lovely 7 each, we're within budget on these two. Primed Fever Strike and Shocking Touch for Corrosive at 8 and 6 respectively, another average of 14 for budget. Organ Shatter and Body Count at 5 each to keep us under, and we'll put Dispatch Overdrive in the Exilus for another 5.

Then we'll put on a Riven for 9 points, which is over budget.

Do you notice what we've got here? A free slot still, and how many points have we used? We've used 52 points. Leaving us with a total of 18 points free.

I can put on Sacrificial Steel without Forma.

Without the Stance I can put on Sacrificial Steel with Forma, because it's then 8 points, but that's not what's important.

What's important is that I have an entirely free slot that can put... anything in there. Anything in the game. I could put a Riven in that slot instead. I could Forma the Sacrificial Steel slot, and have an 18 point Riven in the free slot instead, with 1 mod point to spare.

And that's not even the end of this. If I wanted to trade things out, I can.

Swap Body Count for Drifting Contact and I've got another 2 points. Drop Shocking Touch for Voltaic Strike and I've got 2 more. Heck, let's roll the Element on the Riven to Cold instead, so we have Viral with Primed Fever Strike, drop Voltaic Strike entirely and go with Blood Rush and swap Primed Pressure Point for Condition Overload and we've still not used all 70 points.

Now with this build we have a scaling Viral build, that has an un-Forma'd Sacrificial Steel in there and 2 points spare. All because of that Stance giving us the 10 extra.

You can take the polarity off Drifting Contact's slot too, and now you have a weapon that only needs 7 Forma to put on the full build. Heck, swap Primed Fury out for Gladiator Vice for even more scaling Crit, and you could drop Opportunity's Reach in there to activate Tenno Kai (which is awesome) without a Forma on the Exilus either.

For some weapons that's 6 Forma, for some with built-in polarities, that could be only 4

So... With a Stance in there, you can put on a full, comfortable build for only 6 Forma. 4 if you have innate polarities on the weapon. And not just that, one that's using only 4 forma while having a 16 point mod in there without a Forma. Just floating free. Where any other mod could come in to replace it, or you could Forma that one to get 8 more points available to you for any other combination of silliness.

Which... doesn't seem quite fair, by comparison, now does it?

It just occurs to me that...

Primary and Secondary weapons, along with the Ability Melee, are at a distinct disadvantage in the mod Capacity side of things.

Crazy as it seems, the Primary and Secondary Arcanes, at least the Steel Path ones, could have been 'gun stances' instead. Granting the exact same effects, no different, except that they raise the Mod Points by 10 just like Melee Stances do.

That way, all of our weapons would be on an even footing every one would have a flex slot in the same way, or have lower Forma costs for a full build in general.

So...

I guess there kind of is a Capacity issue, like OP's pointing out?

But melee is presented with the disadvantage of being melee. Why run up to an enemy which both puts you in range of their attacks and makes their guns more likely to hit you when you can brain them form down the hall or nuke everything in the room with your guns? Since this issue can't really be solved with the modding system it at least helps for melee weapons to take less investment to "max out" compared to guns and have a greater upper limit for modding.

While Frames have the opposite issue of being too important to not have under-modded. If someone newer to the game wants to push into harder content to get more upgrades they'll face the unique struggle of lacking access to Reactors and Forma. Thus the extra capacity from Auras steps in to ease that issue. Plus it also helps lower MR players when they do get to using Forma since they have a lower starting gear level after using it.

And as for melee abilities there's a multitude of problems with those systems. But they do at least have their unique advantages be it massive AOE, actually being ranged instead, or outright invulnerability.

[Xzorn]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And this is the exact reason for the forma and polarity system!

So you can't just slap every single powerful mod onto a weapon without thinking and that you have to adjust your build over time, especially if you want to completely min-max your weapon for the highest possible whatever (damage, statuses, etc).

 

The forma system was designed as a progression system for weaponry. To expand builds. Not limit them.
I showed around 7 years ago that capacity creep was going to become a serious problem using Supra Vandal.

My example was an impossible build. Every slot had a Forma and it was still -1 Capacity using 2 Primed mods.

This trend of capacity creep has only continued with the addition of 8? more Primed mods, other misc mods and an Exilus slot. At this point I don't forma weapons to take on infested because that will hit the capacity limit easily. That's one entire faction eliminated from the modding system. I find it hard to believe that's intentional.

In the end the capacity limit is redundant these days. Your 8 mod slots are the real limitation. This would have already extended into frame build if not for the "synergy" system designed to prevent stat dumping. Old frames able to make 5-6 viable builds and new ones 3 at best. 16 Capacity of Archon Stretch? What a joke.

At this point they should really consider the Kuva / Tenet capacity system.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

I personally have no issues with sacrificing something, but unless we get a possibility to delevel mods for loadouts, it is simply not possible, unless you have a multiple copies of the same mod for different ranks
Which, again, is mostly unfeasible.

 

And, quite frankly, it is especially frustrating since:

1) Kuva and Tenet weapons have up 80 max capacity

2) War frames can have auras that can boost capacity above 70

 

And in all cases, we can fit up 9 mods (10 for warframes with aura), thus creating an uneven split for capacity per spot

Mods are incredibly easy to come by...they even have an intentional system of turning hundreds of extra mods into endo...

I bought 4 primed convulsion from baro.

[Tsukinoki]

9 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

The forma system was designed as a progression system for weaponry. To expand builds. Not limit them.

Except that at first DE was very against the idea of a forma system and wanted players to just deal with the natural polarities of a weapon as they were and make their builds fit in with them without every mod being fully leveled.
The polarities (or lack thereof) was to be a limit and the initial idea was powerful gear would have few to no polarities and less powerful gear would have more.

After enough feedback they decided to make forma a thing....and decided that while yes, it would allow you to make your weapons more powerful, it would also make them more limited and fit into a specific niche/build.

They wanted forma to have an actual cost, and that cost is flexibility and the number of builds you can use on a weapon.

Forma was never supposed to just be a "progression system for weaponry", it was a way to make your weapons specialized and more powerful but limited in what mods you could put into your weapon, with the option to undo that specialization by re-forma-ing and therefore re-leveling the equipment a few times.

This was the officially stated goal of the forma system back when it was introduced into the game.
I would know as I was there for that discussion.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Primary and Secondary weapons, along with the Ability Melee, are at a distinct disadvantage in the mod Capacity side of things.

The thing I feel you're missing here is that melee is well, melee.
It's harder to use, harder to hit things, adds travel time to get over to the enemies, makes you more vulnerable to enemies attacks doesn't give you the option to just instantly delete an enemy and all of their friends from across the room, and doesn't have any of the AoE options (at least not without investment of various sorts) as guns can have.
And while melee does have "punch through" it's far more limited than gun punch through is and decreases your damage by a large percentage for each enemy past the first.

Stances adding points to melee weapons was to make up for them being outclassed by everything else in the game in terms of range, ttk, number of enemies you can take on at once, etc.
I mean it's why some stances basically are "You're neutral attacks with this weapon deal +300% damage on the first hit, +300% on the second, and then on the third hits 3 times with a 200%, 400%, and 200% modifier"
Melee weapons needed that sort of buff to even be considered worth using over a gun.

 

Ability Melee has always been in a weird place, and with weird balancing.
And you have to remember that ability melee provide large benefits that normal melee cant.
From essentially just being ranged guns, to adding invulnerablity, and more.

But yeah, ability melee need a rebalance as a whole as to what mods they can and can't use, what warframe stats they can and can't take advantage of, and so on.

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

After enough feedback they decided to make forma a thing....and decided that while yes, it would allow you to make your weapons more powerful, it would also make them more limited and fit into a specific niche/build.

They wanted forma to have an actual cost, and that cost is flexibility and the number of builds you can use on a weapon.

 

Except that doesn't make any sense. Forma was introduced in Damage 1.0. There was no specialization. You shoot weak points or use Puncture. Elemental damage types didn't really matter. A stun is all you really got. My MK-1 Braton, best weakpoint shooter in the game used rainbow damage and fire rate. That's all you needed.

I don't doubt that was said to be clear. I doubt it's meaning or use.

Even so whatever that specialization was, is no longer so. Even if you had 5 of the same weapon there are just builds you can't make now.

"Want something to have a cost". Oh, I know that phrase and how wrong it usually was. Vacuum gate.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Funny seeing all then upvoted replies defending the current default capacity even though we have several weapons with increased capacity from Liches and Sisters. It was fine as long as it was unique to Paracesis but it should be a standard feature for all weapons now. Nemesis weapon will always be unique thanks to their optional progenitor element.

For example, I've 5 Forma in my Kuva Brakk, replaced Jolt with Primed Convulsion and called it a day without even looking at the polarity, but my Prisma Angstrum with 9 Forma can't fit it in. Since Angstrum has more Forma in it, it should be able to fit whatever the hell I want it to as long as the polarity is correct. There is no valid reason why some weapons can do this and some can't.

If you're defending this flawed system, you're entitled to your opinion but it doesn't change the fact that it is wrong.

[trst]

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

The forma system was designed as a progression system for weaponry. To expand builds. Not limit them.
I showed around 7 years ago that capacity creep was going to become a serious problem using Supra Vandal.

My example was an impossible build. Every slot had a Forma and it was still -1 Capacity using 2 Primed mods.

This trend of capacity creep has only continued with the addition of 8? more Primed mods, other misc mods and an Exilus slot. At this point I don't forma weapons to take on infested because that will hit the capacity limit easily. That's one entire faction eliminated from the modding system. I find it hard to believe that's intentional.

In the end the capacity limit is redundant these days. Your 8 mod slots are the real limitation. This would have already extended into frame build if not for the "synergy" system designed to prevent stat dumping. Old frames able to make 5-6 viable builds and new ones 3 at best. 16 Capacity of Archon Stretch? What a joke.

At this point they should really consider the Kuva / Tenet capacity system.

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Funny seeing all then upvoted replies defending the current default capacity even though we have several weapons with increased capacity from Liches and Sisters. It was fine as long as it was unique to Paracesis but it should be a standard feature for all weapons now. Nemesis weapon will always be unique thanks to their optional progenitor element.

For example, I've 5 Forma in my Kuva Brakk, replaced Jolt with Primed Convulsion and called it a day without even looking at the polarity, but my Prisma Angstrum with 9 Forma can't fit it in. Since Angstrum has more Forma in it, it should be able to fit whatever the hell I want it to as long as the polarity is correct. There is no valid reason why some weapons can do this and some can't.

If you're defending this flawed system, you're entitled to your opinion but it doesn't change the fact that it is wrong.

Then once yet more Primed mods and stronger variants release yall will be right back here demanding more capacity and more mod slots. The line has to be drawn somewhere to prevent the inevitable progression of this mindset of just allowing every mod on at once.

Plus pushing for yet more damage is just going to force DE to look at damage attenuation more and more as the only solution to this powercreep. Ultimately we'll reach the point where DE wants the newest content to at least be slightly harder than the previous addition and resort to attenuation on everything. Thus killing all the investment on those over-Forma'd builds.

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

13 minutes ago, trst said:

 

Then once yet more Primed mods and stronger variants release yall will be right back here demanding more capacity and more mod slots. The line has to be drawn somewhere to prevent the inevitable progression of this mindset of just allowing every mod on at once.

Plus pushing for yet more damage is just going to force DE to look at damage attenuation more and more as the only solution to this powercreep. Ultimately we'll reach the point where DE wants the newest content to at least be slightly harder than the previous addition and resort to attenuation on everything. Thus killing all the investment on those over-Forma'd builds.

Again, Brothers and Sisters weapons exist ...

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, trst said:

But melee is presented with the disadvantage of being melee.

7 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

The thing I feel you're missing here is that melee is well, melee.

Yeah, Melee, being Melee.

The thing that was the de-facto meta of Warframe even after the nerf to Naramon's invisibility because it's AoE, requires no ammo, and scales with the Combo mods and the Stance-based forced Status Procs to levels beyond where guns could.

The thing that got players to level cap with any warframe that had CC powers.

The thing that made Banshee the Focus Farming meta for years.

The 'draw back' of having to get in range and hit things is not a draw back in Warframe. Enemies are dumb. Enemy CC can be completely ignored. Enemy damage gets progressively worse if they're in Melee range because the Heavies all stop to try and use AoE knock-downs, and we have 100% damage preventing Block now that means distant enemies can be closed on to without taking damage.

Guns are the current meta only because they're now given the same form of stacking up combo effects (with the Arcanes and Galvanised mods) that Melee had for years, making them easier to use than consistent Melee movement and pressing the button.

Melee hasn't lost power, only gained it, and part of the reason why it was so meta is the freedom that the Modding Capacity gave it.

Ranged damage is the current meta. That doesn't mean that Melee isn't still incredibly powerful and often out-performs ranged by the simple reason that weapons like the Stropha exist, making a melee into a gun.

Thrown Melee is still one of the current metas for high level runs because it can be done in tandem with a primer secondary without losing time switching.

I'm sorry for the rant...

But people forgetting years of Warframe meta just because of the current one really irks me, especially when the current meta only exists because, when given the choice, players have a preference for shooting over melee.

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, trst said:

Then once yet more Primed mods and stronger variants release yall will be right back here demanding more capacity and more mod slots. The line has to be drawn somewhere to prevent the inevitable progression of this mindset of just allowing every mod on at once.

Plus pushing for yet more damage is just going to force DE to look at damage attenuation more and more as the only solution to this powercreep. Ultimately we'll reach the point where DE wants the newest content to at least be slightly harder than the previous addition and resort to attenuation on everything. Thus killing all the investment on those over-Forma'd builds.

 

IMO mods are the least of their problems when it comes to power creep.

New weapons are their primary issue and a lot of it they do on purpose. Galantine Prime to Gram Prime. Around a 30% damage increase for no reason and only months between. The Diemos Pistol is easy to get and does massive damage for no reason. The radial damage goes through walls too which it's not supposed to. New Torrid Incarnon is going to ruin my 8 year old 100 roll Riven from endurance runs because I guess no one at DE actually fired the weapon.

They do this without the modding system. Best endurance Pistol was V. Marelok then Akstilleto, Sicarus, Tombfinder and so on. All directly upgrades from the last.
As the Riven system has hopefully proven by now +300% of 5% is still crap. Mods don't make busted weapons. DE does.

We're not the ones who made Viral belligerently strong or Gas entirely worthless. We didn't add Gun Arcanes either.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

@OP in the end Primed Elemental Mods are mostly a trick in this new damage system which cost me 50 forma to fix weapons. Changes in status weights and status caps makes for little use in weighting Corrosive/Viral or similar. I could see some niche uses for Primed Convulsion for the AoE if you can Armor Strip.

Typical modding says don't use it. Just like Primed Fever Strike, Shell Shock or Cryo Rounds. Even with Arcanes it prolly isn't worth the trouble or swapping.
As I mentioned before. I don't even mod against Infested where mods like these would have more value. Capacity doesn't allow it.

[Tiltskillet]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Funny seeing all then upvoted replies defending the current default capacity even though we have several weapons with increased capacity from Liches and Sisters. It was fine as long as it was unique to Paracesis but it should be a standard feature for all weapons now. Nemesis weapon will always be unique thanks to their optional progenitor element.

I'd welcome a system where we could upgrade regular weapons to open up levels all the way to 40, and thus get Nemesis potential for capacity on any weapon, or nearly any.   Maybe also a progenitor element, though that has more ramifications.  (Like Incarnon Torid with innate cold or electric, lol. )

[(PSN)Unstar]

16 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I bought 4 primed convulsion from baro.

which 4 weapons are you going to put them on? :o

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

which 4 weapons are you going to put them on? :o

I'll rank 1 to max, one to rank 8 and sell the others or use if I need.