I don't like Deep Arcamedea

[-Krism-]

31 minutes ago, quxier said:

Lots of stuff is not great for solo or blatantly horrible. I remember trying solo Archons to get randomly "one shooted". With team it's not a problem, at all.

Just another thing to add, I have pretty bad internet, (Not as much as some people, but still bad), & have quite frequent, minutes-long outages

Normally, if that happens, I simply wait inside the mission until it comes back, 5-10mins usually, but what can I do in public missions that take a long time to finish like DA?

[quxier]

4 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

41 minutes ago, quxier said:

Lots of stuff is not great for solo or blatantly horrible. I remember trying solo Archons to get randomly "one shooted". With team it's not a problem, at all.

Just another thing to add, I have pretty bad internet, (Not as much as some people, but still bad), & have quite frequent, minutes-long outages

Normally, if that happens, I simply wait inside the mission until it comes back, 5-10mins usually, but what can I do in public missions that take a long time to finish like DA?

Yeah, I got that issue. With my old PC I got huge loading times and open world were too much for me.

[helioth137]

no problem, you can do netracells instead, or, for that matter, all content, hell, even playing the game is entirely optional, people need to remember that. 

[-Krism-]

1 minute ago, helioth137 said:

no problem, you can do netracells instead, or, for that matter, all content, hell, even playing the game is entirely optional, people need to remember that. 

 

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

I already made a point for that so I won't do it again

[helioth137]

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

I already made a point for that so I won't do it again

I partially agree with you in that I won't be forcing myself to do it absolutely every week on frames I don't like. 

I do like the novelty, but I think a lot of us were probably hoping for a more balanced endgame which leaves choice of frames + weapons up to players. 

In a way, digital extremes have gotten themselves into a bit of a pickle/ rock & hard place situation, because the unique selling point of Warframe is its vast variety, but also challenge & balance has to be maintained, which is a monumental task in a game with ... 55 frames, hundreds upon Hundres of all kinds of weapons, augs, setups... 
I think they're doing well, but I know deep down all of us players want to really ... depend on each other, face more challenges in squads or at least solo 
and, you know... even like in the early game where we had few or even no mods and every opening into combat counted, every missed or hit headshot counted, 

I'm working on some ideas for endgame challenges and even a sort of PvEvP mode where squads face off against each other across the paradox; 
on side are drifters the others operators, and the competition is to see which side can outlast the other in game modes, I think that could be really fun, 
and 2 modes could even be enabled for it; one, a bit like archimedea, where the gear + frames are rotated & "preset" every week (including mods) 
so it's a fair competition & barrier to entry is low (just finish story up to current point). 
The other; open ended, no power limit, and have some kind of trophy for top squads/ clans/ individuals :) 

It sounds so easy to develop a game and change features, game modes and so on but when you actually get into depth with it, 
it's like, working on a piece of art, or building a bridge, where every stroke and every stone have to be well placed, or the whole thing can suddenly fall apart if you make one serious mistake. 

All in all i kind of wish humans were more forgiving (truly, not fake-ly), and that we could own up to and see our flaws, to build more meaningful things & connections. (as opposed to everyone being an expert regarding building the eiffel tower, and then when it comes to starting the work, people were just... speculating & mouthing off)
I know, speaking from 20+y gaming experience, that often when people are frustrated with one game or community, they just bail, forget about it, and move onto the next, until they get frustrated with that. The other "missing the mark" alternative is people just kinda resign and die inside, submit to routine/"grind". 

I think it's phenomenal when people can truly work together and incorporate their whole being, not just be abused for a certain role, but... i guess i'm getting rambly & philosophical here so i'll end it. 

Edited April 5 by helioth137

[ReddyDisco]

18 hours ago, TeaHands said:

It was weird, I was running solo and the non-Disruption Necramechs were unbelievably tanky. Disruption ones were definitely tanky, especially since they had a health regen buff, but it took wayyyyy less time to actually kill them.

Yea the random mechs you find are very tanky, tanker than their disruption bros and the voidrig has near perfect accuracy with it's mausolon. bulletjumping, rolling, running at max speed and you still get hit and shield gone. 

[helioth137]

21 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Yea the random mechs you find are very tanky, tanker than their disruption bros and the voidrig has near perfect accuracy with it's mausolon. bulletjumping, rolling, running at max speed and you still get hit and shield gone. 

at this time i really feel they should add some kind of open beta program for balance testing content before release 

we had the double nechramechs in deep & elite archimedea and they dropped like flies, whereas normal and eximus units took up to 10 seconds to kill. 

We still have such an amazing foundation for a game here, but I really think they need help with the overall implementation of balance, risk, reward, and i'd wager a bet that the statistical analysis research prior to releasing new content is just a little underwhelming.

[Zakkhar]

3 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

Any time developers listen to sweaty tryhards, everyone else has a bad time

Actually non of the sweaty tryhards would propose a mission mode that completely negataes having ideal synergy between your frame, weapon loudout, pet/sentinel as well as focus school and helminth. Instead giving you a crude patchwerk of limited options, while blocking any creative stuff. It is like it's Kahl all along. You have spend hundreds of hours formaing and perfecting your builds to be able to conquer hardest foes? Nah, that is illegal!

Duviri gives you decrees to overcome that stuff, Necraloid just awards you more hindrance for your obedience.

Edited April 5 by Zakkhar

[-Krism-]

34 minutes ago, helioth137 said:

at this time i really feel they should add some kind of open beta program for balance testing content before release 

Oh, you mean the test servers? They did those once with Railjack changes, & after positive feedback, never used them again

Why? Because #*!% you, that's why

[TeaHands]

2 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Oh, you mean the test servers? They did those once with Railjack changes, & after positive feedback, never used them again

Why? Because #*!% you, that's why

Modern gaming in a nutshell. Why pay for people to playtest your game when they will happily pay to playtest.

[PrinzeEugen]

20分钟前 , Zakkhar 说:

Duviri gives you decrees to overcome that stuff, Necraloid just awards you more hindrance for your obedience.

My man for me Duviri is already bad and Deep Arcamedea just even worst, TBF some of decrees combinations in Duviri is indeed OP tho but the whole gamemode is still heavily weighted on you own gears if you pick something you really haven't own yet you basically still fxck up for most of time.

[MouthfulOJoules]

5 hours ago, -Krism- said:

> Shield modifier so I can't use shield gateAs I listed above, shield gate was created to prevent one shots from happening > Modifier so it removes shield gate

Brief respite/augur mod shield generation still worked like a charm on elite, though the basic shield recovery timer has been nuked, yes. The one thing that this has on duviri, is the ability to mod yourself out before entering the mission without requiring yet another set of intrinsics.

Pity that DArch did not come out with another purchasable loadout slot, but that's a personal gripe, I don't agree with how we get such a limited amount of available loadout slots for a game that gives so many options for multiple builds. It starts out fine, but as your arsenal grows, it becomes more and more of a constraint.

5 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Maybe I can use Last Gasp then, & it's not a get out of jail free card since it gets weaker & weaker with each use, that's a perfect balance. Oh wait, no, that's also blocked

Issue with letting the players use operators, is you would only need to take vazarin and you (and potentially the rest of the team, depending on build) could stay untouchable and topped up on health and shields, but the gameplay would be much more clunky and boring if trying solo play.

Some focus school actives allow to nuke the difficulty, substituting it with clunk (vazarin dash, unairu 2, madurai 1 come to mind, same with naramon 2 and 1 for CC + easy finishers, zenurik for the slow, energy regen, power buff).
The reward pool is underwhelming to say the least, though.

[Dunkelheit]

Am 4.4.2024 um 23:27 schrieb -Krism-:

This mentality of you either one-shot the enemy, or the enemy one-shots you is something I always hated

We have so many ways of healing 1000+ hp/s or straight up ignoring damage that the only way enemies can reliably kill us is with extremely high damage, which in turn makes the only solution being for us to one-shot them, & now combine that with the no respawn + the "You have to do everything in one go from start to finish"

 

I never liked having to work hard on something only to get one-tapped & losing it all because I didn't see that damn snake behind the cluster#*!% of effects that has an arena wide beam attack that brought me from 2000+ health to 0 in an instant

 

Not saying it's bad, it's simply not my thing

They announced this as a very hard endgame activity, so maybe, just maybe, you are not ready for it?

I can tell you that I only died once when I forgot to refresh my overguard. So it is absolutely doable not to be oneshot.

[-Krism-]

11 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

They announced this as a very hard endgame activity, so maybe, just maybe, you are not ready for it?

Did you read the other replies? My own thread?

Tell me, how does RNG passes as difficulty? how am I supposed to overcome one-shots?

 

& to show you I'm not the only one, H3dsh0t made a video saying the same things, although he has a much more positive view on it than me as he actually had fun with this mode, he still called out those two things being stupid artificial difficulty, & tiring

[XaoGarrent]

5 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Actually non of the sweaty tryhards would propose a mission mode that completely negataes having ideal synergy between your frame, weapon loudout, pet/sentinel as well as focus school and helminth. Instead giving you a crude patchwerk of limited options, while blocking any creative stuff. It is like it's Kahl all along. You have spend hundreds of hours formaing and perfecting your builds to be able to conquer hardest foes? Nah, that is illegal!

Duviri gives you decrees to overcome that stuff, Necraloid just awards you more hindrance for your obedience.

Yeah, no. Nothing you said is true. Sweaty tryhards always cry for nerfs, and that's what you yourself are describing.

Edited April 5 by XaoGarrent

[Atomic_Noodles]

Deep Archimedean also just for Full Research just grants you a questionable Cosmetic for your Landing Craft. The further tiers are just more of the Netracell loot and wholly optional. If you only cared for the Sumdali you can just equip just enough of the research gear/penalties to get the lowest tier. (Basically 3 Netracell Rewards) so thankfully you can just go pure Netracells if you don't want to do this one.

[GPrime96]

5 hours ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

Deep Archimedean also just for Full Research just grants you a questionable Cosmetic for your Landing Craft. The further tiers are just more of the Netracell loot and wholly optional. If you only cared for the Sumdali you can just equip just enough of the research gear/penalties to get the lowest tier. (Basically 3 Netracell Rewards) so thankfully you can just go pure Netracells if you don't want to do this one.

I use it on my Skaut over the hands from Fragmented One because it looks cooler imo. But i would agree with this comment.

[_GoodLuck_]

I do. It's very good game mode to get rid off noobs and Revenant mains that can do nothing. Don't get me so toxic, it's just my opinion. The game mode was designed for experienced players, not for some meta mains

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Can sympathise with that stance. I can see why many would bounce off the mode. 

Personally, I quite liked it, but... I do have a few criticisms. I did one normal to unlock the Elite mode, and then the Elite, and in both cases I used all the modifiers. Out of the selection I got, I went with Kullervo, Acceltra Prime, Furis and Anku, and I consider that a pretty lucky pull, since Kullervo can be decently tanky, with Overguard gain, and I have Furis incarnon, and Anku Incarnon, with decent builds, and with the Anku I can get pretty high combo count to synergise with Kullervo. Furis Incarnon is also pretty strong. 

That being said... some of the modifiers just seem annoying. Like the energy drain one, is... People on my team kept dying, and I can't switch into my Operator like I usually do, so I often had to take my Warframe, right into a bunch of enemies, and revive whilst watching my energy and Overgaurd disappear, and then having to play super evasively from a distance to try and not die... Which makes the mission objective drag, and then more enemies die, and then I had to fight like 4 Void Angels.. 

Granted, was kind of fun, and overall I enjoyed it, but I wish the system allowed a bit more leeway as far as what you select, in order to get max rewards. Or some sort of reroll, or even just having a guaranteed Lohk Surge near entrance. I don't know exactly, something. Just for the week where I will get Limbo, Caliban, or Nyx (if there are a lot of Eximus/Overguard enemies), and get like... Stug, and.. I actually like a lot of "trash" weapons, so can't really think of a weapon to use as an example, but there are some, I'd feel bad about joining a PUB and feeling like I wasn't carrying my weight (but to be clear, I don't care/mind if other people match with me, with bad gear, I don't mind carrying). 

I also did an unnecessary, extra run, no more rewards, just to help out a friend with their run. Since I already got all my rewards, I went with Citrine and Boar (but keep all the other modifiers, since... why not) and that was really fun too, much easier, but we also got paired with a Dante and Trinity, so like... (friend was Dagath) so like... no one could die, we had a lot of energy and Furis Incarnon and Boar will wreck even Necramech Demos. 

I'll need to have a few more weeks experiences to draw from, since for myself, it may influence how I feel overall. 

Right now though I like them. 

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

and I can't switch into my Operator like I usually do, so I often had to take my Warframe, right into a bunch of enemies, and revive whilst watching my energy and Overgaurd disappear

To be perfectly honest and fair this can be mitigated by using Vazarin.
Sure it's a limited number of revives per round, but if you can't use your kid mode anyways what's there to lose from switching to vazarin and enjoying instant revives?

And if you can set it up beforehand, having multiple people with vazarin just makes the instant revives stretch a little further and makes reviving people in the mode a piece of cake.

And part of the idea of the mode is changing your loadout (which includes your focus schools and such) to make the mode as easy as possible.

[TeaHands]

Deep Archmedia at its base form is fun. Trying to unlock Elite Arch while Solo was pretty brutal. My only kinda complete frame was Hildryn, which is good, but I got the Shield Delay Debuff, Unable to use Transference, and Health Drain on Ground Movement. Only saving grace was the Energy Drain around enemies. So it got pretty precarious and admittedly fun, but it was that familiar kinda fun that I have a feeling the majority of players will not enjoy. So I don't see it lasting long tbh.

If I were to make a change to try to reach some sort of middle ground I would have selecting every debuff fills out the research bar. And you can remove the debuffs and maintain the research levels by selecting the suggested frames/weapons. With the Elite Arch Modifier filling in the same amount of research.

But that's just me, I'm curious of where DE will go with this mode.

Also playing Hildryn made me realize there is a major lack of Shields on Murmur enemies. So once I stripped nearby enemies of their armor and noticed that the Big Boi Mechs completely ignores Pillage, things got reeeeeallllll scary for my viking queen. But I made it work.

Edited April 6 by TeaHands

[-Krism-]

Sorry if I'm not replying to anyone here, but I'm done for now, between this, Dante's mess of nonfunctional mechanics, & CC getting beating so hard it reached Earth's core, I'm done

Not forever of course, but as I said in the hotfix's thread, the accumulation of mistakes from DE over the 11 years I've played, & them never learning despite saying they do, my frustration has reached its limit

 

I was always on the side of the dev team, even during its biggest flops; this is the second time, after the Heirloom pack, that's I've been this tired of DE

I'll most likely come back for Jade & 99, but until then I'll neither play, nor visit the forums

 

Here's the message I left on the hotfix thread:

Spoiler

This isn't the first time this has happened, & I'm sure it won't be the last

Frankly, after 11 years & with my longest break being 2 months, I'm kind of getting tired of this, this made me re-install another game I haven't played for maybe 6+ months, & have no intentions of playing Warframe for now

Call this an over-reaction if you want, but the accumulation of small & big mistakes, again & again over the years, with them getting more frequent, has left a bad taste in my mouth

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

56 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

To be perfectly honest and fair this can be mitigated by using Vazarin.
Sure it's a limited number of revives per round, but if you can't use your kid mode anyways what's there to lose from switching to vazarin and enjoying instant revives?

And if you can set it up beforehand, having multiple people with vazarin just makes the instant revives stretch a little further and makes reviving people in the mode a piece of cake.

And part of the idea of the mode is changing your loadout (which includes your focus schools and such) to make the mode as easy as possible.

 

Thats a brilliant suggestion. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I rarely use Vazarin, but thats a great point as far as its potential in such situations. Cheers. 

Oh, and I mean there are other ways to mitigate the issue, just I don't necessarily like the potential implications. Like if we failed and I got matched up with team mates that could stay alive, I wouldn't have to put myself in as much danger and risk either, but ehhh... A lot of people I play with, some are often over apologetic when they die and need reviving, but I always try to reassure them it doesn't matter. On the flip side, though this is meant to be a really challenging hard mode, and its not like I don't play other games that are quite harsh about thinning out players at walls. 

So I don't really disagree with what you are saying, its also just one of those things that will always be a bit subjective and preference based. Like all people will have break points, that for others may be fun. Like if we get a Defence mod that has Random Radiation on allies, then another condition where your screen turns off and you need to use a second controller, and another where a snow storm occurs and all enemies are invisible... some might enjoy those added difficulties but others will just be frustrated. So I can sympathise with some, even if overall I really enjoyed and liked my experience (thus far at least). 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb TeaHands:

But that's just me, I'm curious of where DE will go with this mode.

I highly doubt that "elite" game mode for max rewards was meant seriously. probably the game mode was planned for April 1st?
Because how can this even be achieved with lousy weapons and lousy warframes without an operator? challenge???????????? WHERE????

In the end I took Mesa because there was no other option! And I don't need the last mats from the reward bar anyway.

p.s.: the best weapon from the pool was "Amprex". It's best I don't say anything about that. 🤦‍♂️

[LemuriaLight]

I love everything about it except RNG loadout