Jade Shadows - Dev Workshop: Enemy Resistances and Status Rework

[owendawgx]

If you're reducing armor and dramatically increasing Grineer health scaling, it's possible that Slash procs will become really bad. Slash procs against enemies like the Murmur or Corpus are generally really bad because they do less damage than every other type of proc, typically only tickling enemies. If Grineer have way more health, I worry that for Slash, its place in the game will be basically eradicated. Please be careful to ensure Slash procs are not suddenly ineffective. 

Also, I think Gas needs more help than just visual clarity. It doesn't scale with ANY elemental mods, and applies the weakest damage-over-time effect alongside Slash, without the benefit of ignoring any defenses. It can work well with tight grouping setups, but its virtually useless outside of them. 

[Aldain]

I'm conflicted, on one hand undoing years of armor bloat is a good idea, on the other there's just so much outgoing potential player damage that I'm not certain that this will effectively change much other than maybe a passive boost to lower end weapons due to curve changes.

But standardizing the health/shield/armor types is a good move imo, Warframe always had this problem of not particularly communicating things and requiring a trip to the wiki to even remotely understand the expected damage type mix, and most factions had different types within their own ranks so that doubled the issue and often just caused people to be pushed to the most common denominator elements (Toxin for Corpus, Corrosive for Grineer, Viral/Slash for "I really don't care what I'm fighting") and caused other elements to become active burdens far more often than not.

On the topic of Blast and Gas and Magnetic, the issue they have is mostly redundancy (Puncture also suffers from this lately status wise imo, since Impact now has mods that cause Slash status). Blast lowering accuracy is pretty much irrelevant at all levels, lower levels damage isn't an issue and higher levels a single stray bullet is enough to damn near kill you from max health so the passive survival it grants is almost always pointless since functional immortality is always preferable. Gas' DoT is basically useless because it's fixed in a position and also REALLY tiny (3m is less than half the range of a Tonkor explosive), on top of the formula being very weak compared to things like Slash, Toxin or Heat's DoTs. Magnetic is the most redundant of all of them because Toxin just blows through shields outright, thus making the Corpus a faction that doesn't even need consideration of a combined element to trounce.

The biggest problem overall is that Viral being a native damage multiplier is just far too potent to consider using most other elements, it just doesn't make sense to bother reducing an enemy's durability when you can just overwhelm them with raw power (hence why you guys have had to do things like status caps/immunity on a consistent basis for things like bosses). I mean you could make Blast deal bonus AoE damage based on the weapon's total damage on every proc and it would still be less preferable to the potential of 325% extra damage to health that Viral gives because it's JUST that damn good.

I don't claim to have any ideas or suggestions, but for me I think no amount of adjustments of elements are going to help much as long as Viral is still around as it currently is, it's a nuclear option while everyone else is playing Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Edited April 26 by Aldain

[BARLEYDAWG]

39 minutes ago, RAWKLAWBSTAR said:

Just adding +Status Duration would be a better approach than just freezing them. Stopping the timers entirely seems more appropriate for a Warframe power.

Are you mistaking pausing the timer with pausing the effect? Being able to pause the timers of other status effects by freezing would grant more total duration and damage tics than just adding more status duration through mods and adding extra time to the timers for each freeze application doesn't really fit the theme of freezing things. Pausing the timers would fit thematically with freezing something and not to mention you used to be able extend the duration of status effects with any slow effect (from any warframe). In terms of balance it isn't something that would be specific to a single warframe and it already requires a second status effect to be relevant.

[Belphegor_Prime]

I realize this might be oversimplifying the armor issue, but what if Corrosive stacked diminishingly the same way stacking armor currently does? Like if the formula were n stacks of Corrosive strips (n/(4+n))% of the enemy's armor, that would be ~71.4% armor reduction at 10 stacks, but it could continue stacking without ever reaching 100% removal. I feel like that might also feel better for players working on minmaxing Corrosive builds instead of just enforcing another hard cap.

[FatherNeb]

The primary issue with this that I'm seeing is the lack of a willingness to do anything about existing strong builds. All this does is make building weapons less meaningful, and it does nothing to address the overwhelming power of Viral/Slash/Toxin/Heat. It also seems like it's a blanket enemy NERF, since nerfing Grineer usually makes the game like 50 times easier, Corpus are still Corpus with no DR and die in one hit, and the Infested are... well... 

Also, I'm a little concerned for how this will affect "Reactive" abilities like Danse Macabre or Serene Storm's augment. Will we only be seeing like, 3 damage types coming out of those now? If so, that's a little lame. 

TL;DR Nerf Viral/Slash and buff enemies to make sure using these different elemental loadouts is more than just roleplaying.

[Lightning_Bloom]

I'm kinda not a fan of the over simplification, but a little simplification of damage types is nice- Especially showing on the star chart what's recommended.

I'd like to see a standardization of how it is now- Minor units like lancers, crewmen, chargers, etc, with one type of armor, majors like heavy gunners, bombards, ancients, etc having a second type, and of course, robots and machines having separate versions, plus maybe bosses having their own stuff. Limit it to two-to-four types maybe.

 

The rest I like, except I worry about enemies being weaker when we already have some insane power creep- And that toxin will probably nullify the needed buffs to corpus. I'd also like to see Corpus shield regen coming into play at a much lower level, i.e. level 30 or 40, but much weaker of course, at those levels.

 

To remedy the power creep, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd like to see some mod nerfs, or drawbacks to mods that give things like straight up +damage, or +multishot, with tradeoff mods like magnum force becoming a bit more attractive, and with more similar options.

[Probably_Asleep]

I believe Blast should have different effects depending on how it is delivered:

• Single Target Attacks:
  • 1-5 Stacks: Disorientation and Deafness
  • 6-10 Stacks: Shockwave emits from enemy at 1-5 meters respectively, dealing a percentage of weapon damage as Blast damage to nearby enemies
  • Additional Blast Damage keeps enemy at 10 Stacks and continues to cause shockwaves from enemy
• AoE Attacks:
  • Blast Damage from Weapons and/or Abilities should ignore objects (i.e.: does not have any LoS restrictions)
  • Note: This doesn't give AoE to single-target weapons
  • What this would do though is that if you have an AoE weapon that would otherwise be restricted by LoS, the percentage of the attack that is Blast will go through objects and damage enemies

Shockwaves can already permeate solid matter, so that part should make sense anyway. The status effect producing its own shockwave could be explained through the effects claimed on Tesla's oscillator. (Though I think those claims are probably bogus)

EDIT: I realize my idea would cause two nearby enemies to create a feedback loop, but I'll note that the shockwave itself wouldn't have a status chance, so you'd have to proc multiple grouped enemies first and then they'd start a chain reaction that would continue to damage the group until the Blast stacks reduced to 5 or below. This does have the potential for devastating damage, but only after you set things up properly. 

Edited April 27 by Probably_Asleep

[Alexis_Walker]

like many others have pointed out, magnetic's effect on shields is redundant when toxin bypasses them entirely, and magnetic is utterly useless on non-shielded enemies while toxin continues to have an effect universally on everything... honestly i feel like the best solution to the magnetic problem would be to outright replace its effect rather than trying to tweak the one it has.

for example, you know the mini magnetize bubble status caused by void damage from amps and xata's whisper? what if we simply make that the status effect of magnetic damage? then it would be useful against all factions and be actually worth considering using as a form of cc as well as for its damage. perhaps the size of the magnetize bubble could be tweaked based on the number of status procs for balance purposes, such as being about the size of a grineer roller at 1 stack and a little bigger than the current bubble at max stack.

the only challenge then would be figuring out what to replace void damage's status with... perhaps some sort of effect like banshee's silence that temporarily disables eximus abilities? that would be really useful for fighting eximus enemies as operator. 

[Sentinelets]

This feedback section is filled with rants on toxin being the only choice for corpus, you really need to adress this before misleading new players into using impact or magnetic for shields that could be totally bypassed with 1 mod slot.

Besides that, heres the idea how to make magnetic desired and unique:
Landing ~10 procs of magnetic on enemy could create sort of a magnetic anomaly on that enemy location that has a life time of couple seconds and instantly disables shields and nully bubbles of all nearby foes in radius.
This (or similar) mechanic could be a nice alternative of Neutralizing justice miter (the only primary i use for corpus missions)

Edited April 27 by Sentinelets

[SentientTaco]

I really like the intended philosophy of the changes, but I fear it's entirely missing the forest for the trees.

In my mind, right now, every damage type is one of two groups: It's either:
An incredibly good matchup for a healthtype.
Corrosive, Radiation, Impact, Puncture, Gas, and Cold go into this group. Their status effects won't do much in terms of damage, and that's not the point; In a critical build, this is going to help in making the kind of gun that can wreck an enemy without having to wait for status damage to finish them off. Radiation can bypass alloy armor and shred Indifferent Facade, Cold is a good catch-all against Grineer armor and Corpus shields.

or, has a strong status effect.
Slash, Toxin, Heat, Gas, Electricity. While these may not do much damage upfront, they have status effects that can become an incredibly strong consistent damage option. Slash bleeds absolutely ignore armor, Toxin and heat are easily added via mods and can counter shields/armor respectively, and Gas and Electricity works wonders in dense groups.

You may notice there are some damage types missing from this list, and it's all our current problem children.
Viral has an impressive +75% and +50% against the two flesh types, AND has the numerically strongest status type in the game; increasing damage vulnerability for health. Right there, why would you ever use anything else? It has the advantages of the two groups, and perfectly compliments anything you put it on and any damage type because it actually, literally INCREASES DAMAGE. This alone also means that the status effect negates it's own bad matchups, like against Infested and Indifferent Facade. Those -50% matchups are null and void when all you need is ten stacks of viral to completely overpower it. The efficacy of Viral is so incredibly good that it actively chokes build diversity across the whole game.
Magnetic is exactly like Viral except for shields instead. There are two things that prevent it from producing the same issue. The first is that Toxin completely trumps it. The name of the game is to reduce the enemy HP to zero - reducing shields to zero is just a step infront of that, and if you can skip it, you should. On top of that, once you get through a specific chunk of your enemy's EHP, the status effect and damage matchup doesn't matter at all. This will actually be somewhat addressed by the Corpus shield recharge scaling - keep it!
Blast is... actually useless. No seriously, in 99% of cases you shouldn't use it and you're handicapping yourself if you do. It's damage matchup is +75% against... machinery. Yay. I was excited for the Murmur, as the Culverin/Arcocanids use this healthtype. I experimented with having blast damage on my weapons, and even with a faction damage mod on them to help, it was just awful - Alloy armor is present on anything with machinery and it REDUCES BLAST. Halfway through I just gave up and went back to my corrosive tatsu. Not only this, but the status effect feels useless, and may even be mechanically negligible. Reducing enemy accuracy isn't effective or even noticable at all - how would I know the one Grineer or Corpus gunman missed some bullets among all of his other buddies that did? Even then, near the high end of accuracy scaling it seems barely effective. And that's even if your target uses a gun! Grineer butcher? Every infested unit? Murmur fragments? It's actually doing nothing. So if the damage bonus AND status effective is useless, why would you ever use Blast for anything?

What I'm trying to say is, while the unification of healthtypes is some great QOL, unless you address these issues, you're not going to effectively change the issues here. Something needs to be done about how oppressive Viral is.

While I'm at it: Don't simplify TOO MUCH. Modding for Grineer fodder vs. heavy gunners, or Murmur machines vs. constructs is pretty fun.

Edited April 27 by SentientTaco
Forgot to add sidenote at bottom.

[CaptainAShu]

Overall, it is a good patch, but before changing the condition, I would like to suggest one thing. Most of the cold air modes are deployed in the Vazarin, and it can be difficult to set up weapons by facilities because of this one. Why don't you change the cold air modes to Naramon?

Edited April 27 by CaptainAShu

[Hallelion]

There's a possibility wherein the TTK of enemies may become faster, but a new mechanic could also be introduced to temper this: Status Effect "stack burning". If an enemy obtains a certain amount of status procs, the entire stack for that status is consumed and an impactful, more lasting effect is applied to the enemy. It effectively clears statuses dealt (which in turn gives a semblance of survivability to enemies), while also giving players with an incentive for triggering it.

Some examples I can think of (no numbers, just effects):

• Quantic Tether (from Magnetic): Energy-based damage and projectile speed dealt by the enemy is reduced
• Gamma Lock (from Tau): Extends the duration of all status effects received
• Hypershock (from Electricity): Deals Electricity damage over time that can interrupt actions
• Stigmata (from Slash): A single, powerful burst of base damage and a reduction to enemy's max HP
• Abyss (from Void): Increases status effect and critical damage susceptibility of the enemy

[Probably_Asleep]

FACTION-ADAPTIVE LOADOUTS PLEASE?
While I love the idea of making elements more relevant, swapping mods around between missions might be taxing for some players. (I thought this would apply to me but then I paid more attention and realized that I only play solo and don't mind hopping over to my Arsenal every mission)

On that note, could we get an auto-loadout option? ^{(WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINION AHEAD)} I'd even see it as fair to make it something I'd have to purchase with Platinum.

How it would work:

• Purchase a "Faction Adapter" that can be applied to an existing Loadout Slot
• When modifying an "Adaptive Loadout" your Mod Screen will have a dropdown menu where you can select a faction for that Mod Tab
• If the currently selected tab has no faction selected, then nothing different will happen
• However: If you do select a faction for the currently selected Mod Tab, then your loadout will attempt to match the mission faction to an assigned Mod Tab
• If the current mission is of a faction you did not set up in your Mod Tabs, then it will default to your currently selected tab
• This applies to all equipment equipped in your loadout
• Does not allow for different weapons or Warframes to be contained within a single loadout, just an adaptive set of Mod Tabs

The conventional solution I'm sure is to just have different Loatouts for each faction, but considering the limited amount of loadout slots and the fact that many people want to build loadouts for mission type instead of faction, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation to place on the player. Having an adaptive loadout setup would give us an extra dimension contained within a singular Loadout Slot, which would in turn allow us to jump from mission to mission without having to delay the squad with equipment decisions.

[Probably_Asleep]

EDIT: You'd have to raise the Mod Tab max every time you add another faction. I think the max is 6 right now which works at the moment...

EDIT2: Actually 6 isn't enough, is it? I forgot Narmer. And on that note is Narmer going to have its own element profile?

Edited April 27 by Probably_Asleep

[TheKengineer]

There's some interesting bits here. Some positive, some that doesn't seem to quite fit. Forgive me, this is going to be long but better now than after updates go live.

I like the concept of simplifying enemy health, armor, and shields to do away with the litany of types. Replacing that with faction/sub-faction types is a good concept and much easier to communicate to new players especially. 

However this example section:

Quote

 

Let’s create an example: you bring a loadout of pure Viral/Slash if you’re fighting the Grineer on Earth. The Slash status activating Bleed is amplified by Viral status, and Bleed bypasses Armor to destroy your foes.

But, Slash Damage does less damage to both Ferrite and Alloy Armor and has no beneficial difference to Machinery. In order to maximize damage against Grineer, you’d think to stock your loadout with Puncture, Corrosive, and Radiation. Blast is also especially effective against Machinery.

Clearly, there are far too many things to juggle here, ultimately resulting in the one-stop-shop of Viral/Slash.

 

I think this misunderstands the position of slash/viral and heat/viral in the meta. They're used for two reasons: They're strong, and they're reliable. The complex opportunities of using puncture, or corrosive, or radiation, or blast isn't what's holding them back from being used. Likewise the resistance to slash on armor is irrelevant to slash/viral builds. Players use slash and heat because they get the job done. Players don't use blast because it gets no job done, especially with the near total absence of machinery to fight.

Through any changes, it's important to keep the distinction between status and damage too. The reason slash/viral is still viable against the Murmur for example is because the slash penalty and viral penalty both do not apply to the effective portion of a slash/viral build. 

On the topic of armor Corrosive procs are definitely undertuned for fewer procs. Curiously though the workshop then goes on to focus on the armor aspect rather than defeating it. With armor strip options across a lot of gear, plus heavy damage options, damage type matching (including armor bypass like radiation vs alloy), slash procs, and emerald shards, killing armored enemies hasn't felt like an insurmountable challenge. I'm concerned that if armor gets capped low then armor debuffs will be without significant value, while if armor is capped high then the underlying nature of the equations hasn't changed. Taking the Heavy Gunner example, 10 corrosive procs "only" reduces the damage reduction from armor by less than 10%. However, it's increased the damage taken after armor from 2.7% to 12.18%, a 4.5x increase which is greater than 10 viral procs. (A scenario in which many would still use viral procs to enhance the slash procs they have, or use emerald shards to get the remaining 4 corrosive procs). 

Now repeat that same scenario but armor is capped at 2000. The damage reduction would be 86.96% before corrosive procs, 57.14% after corrosive procs. A whopping 29.8% decrease in absolute damage reduction value, yet only a 3.3x damage increase. **A lower starting armor value makes the same % armor reduction *worse*, not better.** 

Over the course of 14 corrosive procs on the 10815 armor enemy, the effective damage increase with each proc is:

If a more significant partial strip is desired, that last column is the one to focus on and smooth out (after of course a larger jump on the 1st proc, following the philosophy of 1 proc being significant on its own). For other sources of armor strip, notably abilities, players usually aim for a full strip because it's accessible. Why do half a job when doing the whole job is so easy and valuable? 

When it comes to dealing with armor then, I would suggest the focus be on ensuring the tools to partially defeat armor are sufficient to be worthwhile rather than - if I'm reading this right - redesigning armor entirely for enemies and making it scale differently than for players. Such a strip-focused approach then also doesn't call for health buffs which in turn doesn't nerf the TTK on setups which already full strip, such as the now well invested emerald archon shards.

----

On shields, how common is it for players to take breaks from killing the same unit long enough for shield regen to be important? I ask this as I consider the impact on a person pre- and post-change. The person who starts and finishes killing a shielded target without reloading would surely not give time for shields to regenerate more than a spit, so I wonder what difference they would see in gameplay. Meanwhile the person struggling, reloading to take on the unit, finds the wall even higher to climb due to the increased regen. This is on the assumption of shields not constantly regenerating while under fire, a change which could be both interesting and infuriating due to creating a minimum burst dps to beat a unit. I'd assume that the suggested answer would be to use magnetic which, while valid, leads nicely into the status changes.

• Cold - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed needed buffs right now. It slows targets down so much it's trivial to hit weak spots and evade abilities, especially as they hang in gravity defying animations. I openly recommend it against demolishers for example, and it pairs nicely alongside corrosive already. Still, sounds fun for a lot of people so if it seems necessary, have at it!
• Gas - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed only needed cosmetic improvements. To me, gas is exceptionally niche due to a small AoE, short lingering period, no elemental mod buff (except Valence Formation - Lavos wins again), and max 10 procs. If an 11th proc is applied, the 1st is removed even if it is stronger. No other damaging proc has such a limitation as standard. As I saw someone else succintly put it, the hard to see visuals are not the reason gas gets skipped. *My personal change* would be to remove the 10 proc cap for damage, keep the range cap, and then make the lingering gas cloud increase in duration based on procs on death. Not linearly, but such that applying a larger number of procs leaves a danger zone for a noticably longer period to help secure gas' identity separate from electric.
• Magnetic - my number one issue with magnetic is it only affects one faction. Corrosive affects corpus and infested armor even if it's less common than grineer. Viral affects corpus health even if they also have shields. Magnetic has no effect on unshielded enemies making it overly niche. If looking to make a meta that doesn't favour so few types, making types more universal seems a strong win to me rather than doubling down on making magnetic the "correct choice" for corpus. *My personal change* would be to add a Disruption effect to magnetic. Similar to how magnetic drains *Tenno* energy, affecting abilities, it could disrupt *Enemy* abilities. For example, an enemy would have a 1/(1+x) chance of successfully casting an ability where x is the number of magnetic procs on them. By abilities, I mean the ones we block with Banshee's Silence, like grapples, eximus powers, that sort of thing. While this wouldn't affect all enemies, it certainly affects all factions to make magnetic be more than discount viral while also matching it closer to how we get affected. Boss type units can resist this by capping the procs they receive, or specifically ignoring the Disruption effect just as how Archons ignore Corrosion.
• Blast - Please don't make this an "everything is AoE now!" status. I genuinely beg of you do not go down that road. Doubly so anything with lots of explodey effects to clog up my screen. *My personal change* is simple; Blast procs become the Viral of Overguard. Viral counters health, magnetic counters shields, corrosive counters armor, radiation counters buffs, gas counters groups, and blast can counter overguard. This gives it an all faction use that can be a serious contender against the cold-sharing viral and magnetic. Does the player want to deal more damage to all enemies of a faction, or do they want to overwhelm the overguard of the highest threat enemies? This would be especially useful to crowd control focused frames as a way to expedite their backup plan for the CC immune threats. 
• Lastly, though not mentioned in the workshop, Toxin - I don't really want to see Toxin nerfed, but I am also aware that it rather invalidates any threat shields can present. I also wouldn't want to see Toxin lose its identity as a shield bypass damage and status. If however this does need balancing, *My personal change* would make current shields count as pseduo-armor against toxin. Toxin still bypasses them, but it has an increasingly hard time the more shields the target has. The numbers would ABSOLUTELY need balancing, but not only would this make toxin less oppressive against mainly shielded units, it also could be extended to Tenno to give shield hitpoint tanks more resilience against enemy toxin damage.

----

I've said a lot here, mostly criticism, but that's because praise takes fewer words. Much of this workshop looks good. I hope this feedback may inspire even more good.

- Just some dude on the internet :)

[Tau.]

Magnetic being relegated to solely an anti-Corpus damage type will still feel bad. I propose procs of it also temporarily jam affected enemies' special abilities, the same way Banshee's Silence seals them. This would give its design some congruity; magnetic procs are disproportionately spooky to players, yet enemies get to laugh and shrug them off harmlessly? I don't think so. The tech has already been there forever, just plug it in to be intrinsic to the status. 

[thats_rudiculous_07]

Can we get mods for magnetic damage ? Such as the new dual stats radiation mods that drop from demios. Make magnetic dual stat mod.

Can you add ability to magnetic damage that groups into 3m radius? As an attraction 🧲🧲 when shot through, increase projectile speed

Edited April 27 by thats_rudiculous_07

[thats_rudiculous_07]

3 hours ago, TheKengineer said:

Magnetic

Do you think they should give magnetic like 3m attraction like gas(when shot through, increase projectile speed)? (To attract they all have to be shot)

Edited April 27 by thats_rudiculous_07

[vixenpixel]

it's not like this is going to be gamechangingly op for corrosive armor stripping. all it's doing is making it abit harder across the board while somewhat equalizing the playingfield on the statuses. But being forced to essentially do 10 corrosive stacks for the full benefit is still not comparable to tharros strike or pillage one cast full strip. However, voruna will like this change alot, I think. :)

Edited April 27 by vixenpixel

[FiveN9ne]

If you compare status effects and damage to their earlier versions it kinda shows they don't really know what to do with them and are just trying things out.

Old Gas > New Gas (this is self explanatory)

Old Blast > New Blast (knockdown is always more beneficial than accuracy loss even though you would never mod into it it had some benefits on launcher or aoe weapons because it was a given)

Old Viral > New Viral (halving enemy HP with 1 proc, benefit increases drastically as HP scales up)

Old Corrosive > New Corrosive (tell me again why they capped armor strip with Corrosive and then added shards to let us full strip again, makes no sense to me)

Magnetic? Was always irrelevant.

The only thing that got some beneficial buff were cold and puncture. However, no one would ever mod into those elements anyway, cold is part of viral and is never used unless weapon has it innately and is separate from viral. Puncture is just there, like a passive boost. It has been years since the new viral slash whatever meta has settled and i do not see anything being better or improved compared to the way statuses used to work. This "rework" will likely not accomplish much either.

[Gullim92]

Very excited to see these changes, but as others have said and I myself have told other people before, one of the most necessary changes to incentivize different weapon builds is letting us change configurations faster. Having to go to each weapon's mod screen individually to select configs B or C will absolutely, 100% kill most players motivation to engage with this system. Letting us select weapon configs straight from the star chart or bounty screens will go a very long way to ensuring people interact with different builds for each faction.

You have people already bringing this up on PAGE 1 of this very topic, so I urge you to consider any possible solutions.

6 hours ago, RAZORLIGHT said:

This stuff is incredible.

But it won't solve one big issue, changing loadouts manually is tiresome.

We need some kind of adaptive loadout system, based on the faction we fight.

If we fight corpus it will automatically chose the corpus loadout (if activated by the player) and so on.

 

[ChemX32]

As someone who uses Gas extensively, if someone from DE wants to buff gas beyond its visual aspects I would suggest them to play to it's strengths which is being a specialized status effect.

Right now gas has 3 requirements:

- Armor strip.

- Grouping

-Steady (ideally AOE) application of gas across those who are grouped to reach the cap

This is also accompanied by multiplicative gun CO so that the damage dealt to the previous enemy can be stored as a gas cloud.

My suggestion would be just let gas "spread it's status" upto, say, twice. Once per damage tick. Keep the gas status cap upto 10 but give it higher range at base. While the above mentioned grouping + armor strip combo gets a decent buff I think it's fair because you are letting go of both toxin and heat, which are some very important base elements.

My actual idea behind the change is to have it carve out a new niche for single target high damage guns who can now spread their damage around through gas itself. This should open up more specialized gas builds.

Again, I might just be wrong and this might be a terrible idea >.> But I feel gas a few changes away from actually being great. If anything I would at least love some increased duration for clouds after death

 

Edited April 27 by ChemX32

[thats_rudiculous_07]

6 hours ago, Halo said:

Caught it, because now I don't see the blast information, and people I know who were on the page swore by seeing the info there, meanwhile I refreshed the page, cleared the cache, closed and opened my browser multiple times, and still couldn't see it: 

Blast Our goal with Blast was to invoke an immediate and on-death effect to emphasize explosions.

Now, instead of Enemy inaccuracy, you detonate your enemies! When dealing a Blast Status Effect to an Enemy, the following will happen:

When Status is applied, deal a percentage of damage after a certain timeframe. Each Blast has its own timer, and goes after a second.

Accumulated Blast stacks incur on-death explosions using their combined damage from when initially dealt and forcing Stagger to affected (within explosion radius) enemies. Radius of triggered explosion via death may grow in radius per stack.

Either DE didn't want people to see it and removed it prior to posting, or something else happened. They all got it from the main link I checked, and I didn't see it initially. 

Formal Edit: DE has stated in the edited post now that they are still cookin with Blast ideas. Hopefully something worth while! 

Doesn't seem impressive.

[sh0shin]

Please buff Gas a little. It's a very strong damage type that's slept on, and many know of the Gas + Electric combo for Melee Influence as well as crazy scaling Gas (with grouping) builds. However, 10 stacks is maybe a bit weak when IIRC all other DoT damage can go to infinity and DPS like crazy. Gas isn't necessarily weak when your loadout supports it, to be abundantly clear.

But on its own, it very often feels lackluster compared to Radiation's crowd control and it can't even be a Progenitor element, when, for example, Magnetic is an amazing Condition Overload priming progenitor for Kuva/Lich armaments. Toxin/Viral/Corrosive/Heat elements are obviously way better for more situations as well.

Edit: and give it damage based on elemental mods!!!

Speaking of which, would other Elements ever be added as progenitors? Why not? I could definitely see avoiding Slash, but otherwise, Blast and Gas and Puncture seem fine to me. Maybe not Blast if it's buffed super high...

And PS definitely add way more HP than you think you need to. Armor scaling rework is welcome due to the super funky mechanics, though. Thanks! Looking forward to Blast meta.

Edited April 27 by sh0shin
buff gas part 2

[Danielw8]

Being quick: Daily missions and weekly missions need to be easier, all weapons need to be viable, with a good kpm and flow of mission

If you cant use alternox because its too weak for 5min steel path incursion you have a problem

If you cant grimoire because its weak in steel path interception incursion thats a problem

Sure you can equip a glaive one shoot some enemies, gain damage and together with vig swap and multiple abilities buff that weapon can work, but that stops the flow remember you are doing a daily 5 min mission. Thats fine for 1 hour cascade because you know you will face lvlcap enemies so you need proper gear, proper builds, proper buffs to make these work in that scenario

But again daily and weekly missions enemies need to be weaker so we can actually use the lastest weapons we are crafting and builiding in these, "gear lock" need to be for endurance not for casual daily grind

All these examples are with 6 or more formas bully fuilded with maxed mods, and most builds are the same because viral, slash and heat are too strong

And for endurance, im quite against to use a weapon for utility (stacking different status) and using your main dps weapon to kill, and your melee for buffing damage your main dps weapon

So as result you should make daily and weekly missions viable with any full builded weapon, without stacking dmg buffs/ability buffs

For endurance yea its fine

Yea warframe you allways had balance problems

Edited April 27 by Danielw8