Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[-R-Arkanphel]

Can we hope than after the change of Excalibur and Valkyr, we can use mods blood rush/body count in EB and hysteria?

[Maxis_55]

40 minutes ago, Geraion said:

They didn't say nerfing, they just said they were looking at them. Ash's 4 seriously needs a look, it's the most boring-&#! skill in the game atm. Press 4 and afk. Then press 4 again and afk, lol win at damage 4 free.

 

Besides, there's no fun on dominating everything with no effort, ability or weapon.

They didn't say that Mesa's "rework" was a nerf also. Maybe it to confuse someone to think that "a slight rework" is always a good thing, and, well, it works. Some people still think that nerf and "rework" are separate in this game, even if some warframe becomes more gorges after rework(Frost), and some become useless(Mesa) .

[AndrewScreamSoul]

I understand the part of the range for making him a swordman and sound reasonable for me but the cost the mini Radial Blind now? C'mon.
 

Quote

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Although Exalted Blade is a lot of fun, we feel that it completely overshadows all of Excalibur’s other abilities at little cost .

Slash Dash? Funny skill for killing but for not so usefull, only for running to a side of the map to an other. 

Radial Blind? Really good and very usefull for me, and I use it so many times,for taking time and save my comrades 

Radial Javelin? The worst for me. Only good for low leveles and then on late game when the enemies are like the level 60 - 100+,it will became totally USELESS

It's my personal feedback, so don't judge me for this. Before to nerf the ONLY GOOD AND FUNNY skill,think about it. 

 

I agree only for the range,but I don't like this things of the energy cost.

[Telogor]

2 hours ago, TheKittenEater said:

So. Turning Prism, the only truly viable ability Mirage has, into a worse Radial Blind is perfectly fine. Mainly because you are salty about people running Raids "better" than you.

But the moment someone tries to touch your Ash's 4-to-win ability, it becomes something that cannot possible be even changed withour completely ruining the frame.

Bet you dont like Trin's nerf because shes the one that gives you the energy for that 24/7 bladestorm spam, huh?

Prism isn't Mirage's only viable ability.  Ever heard of the Hall of Mirrors/Eclipse build?  The build responsible for Mirage's reputation as the best frame to synergize with nearly any weapon?  The build responsible for the Kohm nerf?  No?  *Sigh*.  Anyway, I wasn't being serious about the T4I and LoR part.  I was joking about how people always cheese those missions with a macro Mirage.  Considering your level of butthurt comments, I guess you're one of the bad/lazy players who rely too heavily on Mirage's Prism spam.

Bladestorm is one of the least offensive press-4-to-win abilities in the game  It's limited to 18 targets, suffers greatly with the presence of a single Ancient Disruptor or Healer, and takes a while to complete.  Sure, it does a lot of damage, but it's the only viable thing Ash has.  Loki and Ivara do invisibility better.  Banshee, Frost, and (Soon™) Mag do spot removal of armor better.  A variety of frames do stuns better, and that's just the Finisher-opening stuns.  If you want to include all stuns, pretty much all of them are better than Ash's.  Can you honestly say that you ever use Ash for abilities other than Bladestorm?  I'd bet not, because his 1, 2, and 3 are pretty terrible.  I did meet one Ash who built for Smoke Shadow, but his abilities were fairly ineffective at best.

Trin's nerf has nothing to do with Energy Vampire, and even if it did, I wouldn't care.  I nearly always build for efficiency.  There are exactly 4 builds I have that rely on EV, and 3 of them happened because I was tired of farming Void Defense.  The only regular build I have that requires EV is a duration/range CC Frost build.  My Bladestorm build is just your generic max-efficiency-increased-range-increased-strength-neutral-duration build.

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Telogor

[Totorochan]

RIP in peace Mirage.

RIP in peace Excalibro.

RIP in peace Rezbot- I mean, Valkyr.

RIP in peace. Ashstorm.

And oh look, Trinity. It must be Wednesday.

Ok but seriously, the whole "get away from enemies before ending Hysteria" as Valkyr is the easiest thing in the world. Any duration/efficiency Valkyr build (which will be even more encouraged with the increased energy costs) will have reduced power range, and honestly how hard is it to just jump straight up? Parkour 2.0 makes it trivial to "get away" from enemies. This just makes kitty-frame jump around more.

Mirage Prism... had it coming. However, any buff to Sleight of Hand is a good thing!

But yeah, Excalibro became a turret. However, please don't add the energy cost thing to Exalted Blade / Radial Blind. Some of us perform slide attacks all the time instinctively, and this will cost accidental energy. More importantly, it works against the play style of "slide into a mob of monsters, blind them and cut your way out". There has to be a better way.

[TheTundraTerror]

So, let me get this straight, DE? I put a bunch of Forma into my frame to unlock it's full potential. You put Forma into the game for the sole purpose of getting more money unlocking the full potential of our frames (and weapons). So, we do that. We put all the time, effort, and resources to bring our frames to their fully realized potential... and then it all goes to waste as you sodomize my frame because someone who only plays 20 minutes of Survival or 20 waves of Defense threw a fit.
 

After spending 5 Forma in Mirage and 3 Forma into Trinity (with another 5 planned for Excal) only to realize that DE are basically going to skullf*** my entire work, I have no desire to play the game. I'm sick and tired of being bent over and screwed by developers over and over and over. If DE actually goes through with this nonsense, I'm done. That's it.

To the people who are celebrating this because "Oh, now it won't trivialize content" that was already trivial to begin with, play more than 40 minutes of T4S. The only thing that scales in this game is cheese.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[HawkBlade94]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Excalibur:

 

Excalibur's rework made him an indisputable lethal force - a role he will continue to shine in, but now with more reasonable parameters on his Exalted Blade waves.

Exalted Blade’s damage will now diminish according to distance traveled and enemies punctured, and Exalted Blade’s built-in Radial Blind on spin will now cost ½ the Energy of a regular Radial Blind. Although Exalted Blade is a lot of fun, we feel that it completely overshadows all of Excalibur’s other abilities at little cost. The powerful range on Exalted Blade turned Excalibur into more of a turret than a swordsman. This change means that Exalted Blade is more effective when used in close range and using Radial Blind is now a calculated choice. The ability will simply become more engaging in all encounters.

I have one Good and one Bad news.

Good one is: Nice change. It means more "Slash in your Face" less "Turret mode".

Bad one is 1/2 energy cost of the regular Radial Blind for "built-in" Radial Blind on spin is kinda bad unless you compensate it for something.

Numbers said that "built-in" Radial Blind has 5m range and 6s duration at all levels of Exalted Blade and "Standard" Radial Blind has 8/12/15/25m range and 7/10/12/15s duration (acording to wikia). That means that "built-in" Radial Blind has 1/5 range and 2/5 duarion of R3 "Standard" Radial Blind. Makeing it cost 25 energy (1/2 of "Standard's" 50 energy) is too much.

Either make it cost 1/4 of "Standard" or give it more range and duration so that 25 energy cost would be justified.

[achromos]

I'm glad for these changes, bringing these frames in line with other frames is necessary.  Balance isn't about "This guy is doing more damage then my frame!"  It's about "Well... this guy is one-shotting the whole room, and easily too... Did I make the wrong choice in frame...?  But I like this frame... Guess I cannot play the frame I like or I'll be bored." 

Bringing every frame in-line with each-other is a wonderful thing, because you wont see "Want to melee?  Go Excaliber." oh and by the way, melee = 40 meter range waves of death that can go through a bank vault and still travel through a horde of enemies in one swipe.  or...  "Want to kill quickly? Go Ash." and have everyone in your squad sit back as you press 4 over and over again.

I have forma'd each of these offending frames above, multiple times, and I am not mourning a slight loss to their ability to trivialize content with ease.

[_Mozzy_]

The Excal and Mirage changes sound fairly reasonable to me, I'm just worried that Magnetic procs will now just instantly kill any Valkyr in Hysteria (as it will deactivate straight away without giving you a chance to get away from enemies).

[Circle_of_Psi]

I just hope they make bladestrom better and not outright nerf it, due to Ash as a frame is useless after such, and hes my main. Will still use him regardless, but I hope DE have a look at my conspet.

[TheTundraTerror]

@_Mozzy_ The Mirage change is the furthest thing from reasonable. Do you know how long it takes to cast Prism? The answer is "longer than radial blind". Prism also locks you to the ground while Radial Blind doesn't. DE has turned Prism into a worse Radial Blind.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[-BM-Mitz]

3 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

So, let me get this straight, DE? I put a bunch of Forma into my frame to unlock it's full potential. You put Forma into the game for the sole purpose of getting more money unlocking the full potential of our frames (and weapons). So, we do that. We put all the time, effort, and resources to bring our frames to their fully realized potential... and then it all goes to waste as you sodomize my frame because someone who only plays 20 minutes of Survival or 20 waves of Defense threw a fit.
 

After spending 5 Forma in Mirage and 3 Forma into Trinity (with another 5 planned for Excal) only to realize that DE are basically going to skullf*** my entire work, I have no desire to play the game. I'm sick and tired of being bent over and screwed by developers over and over and over. If DE actually goes through with this nonsense, I'm done. That's it.

Too the people who are celebrating this because "Oh, now it won't trivialize content" that was already trivial to begin with, play more than 40 minutes of T4S. The only thing that scales in this game is cheese.

I don't think the changes are as bad you make them seem. Just cause its different doesn't mean it has no use of any sort. One example with excal: his blind buffs melee damage so even with fall off he'll hit stupid hard. See? It still works. I'm sorry but can you really be this salty over changes that you've never tried? That NO ONE has tried? I think most posts of this kind are just riding the wave of others' opinions cause it's irrational to just give up on reasonable changes before even trying them.

[TheTundraTerror]

1 minute ago, Major_Phantom said:

I don't think the changes are as bad you make them seem. Just cause its different doesn't mean it has no use of any sort. One example with excal: his blind buffs melee damage so even with fall off he'll hit stupid hard. See? It still works. I'm sorry but can you really be this salty over changes that you've never tried? That NO ONE has tried? I think most posts of this kind are just riding the wave of others' opinions cause it's irrational to just give up on reasonable changes before even trying them.

If you haven't tried them, than why are you DEFENDING them?!

[achromos]

Just now, TheTundraTerror said:

If you haven't tried them, than why are you DEFENDING them?!

 

The better question is then... why are you panicking over them?  Cannot defend anything if nobody is freaking out over it.

Edited May 27, 2016 by achromos

[-BM-Mitz]

Just now, TheTundraTerror said:

If you haven't tried them, than why are you DEFENDING them?!

I'm defending them cause the amount of hate shown prematurely is irrational

[TheTundraTerror]

7 minutes ago, achromos said:

The better question is then... why are you panicking over them?  Cannot defend anything if nobody is freaking out over it.

Because anyone who's played more than 50 hours knows DE's mentality when it comes to nerfing things. Remeber the Vulklok nerf? "Hmmm? Should we nerf the accuracy or the fire rate? Ah, hell! Let's do both!"

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[achromos]

Just now, TheTundraTerror said:

Because anyone who's played more than 50 hours knows DE's mentality when it comes to nerfing things.

While this is true... that DE has a habit of nerfing things to the ground so much that nobody will touch them...  (Synoid gammacor...)

 

If they are sticking to what is posted here?  I don't see any reason to freak out.  I'd rather try things out in practice then freak out over a sheet of paper tbh.

[TheTundraTerror]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

If they are sticking to what is posted here?  I don't see any reason to freak out. 

Aside from the fact that some of the changes are totally asinine? Making the EX Blade Spin take 1/2 the energy of RJ while giving <1/4 the results? Turning Prism into a worse version of Radial Blind? Turning Valk's Hysteria into a worse version of Wukong's Defy? Making LoR NM basically impossible with any changes to Trinity's Blessing?

Meanwhile, armour/enemy scaling is still out of control.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[achromos]

2 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Aside from the fact that some of the changes are totally asinine? Making the EX Blade Spin take 1/2 the energy of RJ while giving <1/4 the results? Turning Prism into a worse version of Radial Blind? Turning Valk's Hysteria into a worse version of Wukong's Defy?

 

Hysteria costs HALF as much as Defy.  (Hysteria 2.5, Defy 5.)  Hysteria grants full immortality, Defy grants psudo immortality that will drain energy directly from you each time you technically 'die'

 

I will agree that I'm confused that the EX blade spin taking energy when... I never personally used it and found it pretty much cumbersome to begin with when I want to just spin attack :/

Edited May 27, 2016 by achromos

[tnccs215]

mh... I dont think I truly enjoy reworked hysteria. While the energy drain increase is nice, the central problem-- complete invincibility-- is still there. Still, is an improvement.

I'd also love to add that Equinox is seriously needing some revision. For a frame that should be constantly swapping, she is terribly clunky to use-- mainly due to her abilities deactivating on metamorphosis, instead of transitioning as well. Additionally, Pacify&Provoke needs a buff. The ability is simply useless without the Augment, which in turn further increases the problem mentioned above: Since you need to build up the ability (which, specially on Night form, can be a laborious task), you are virtually locked in one form, at the price of loosing the hard earned build up if you change. Also, dying and nullifiers are particularly frustrating on Equinox, mostly born from the problems mentioned above, and the fact that P&P, unlike most "channeled" abilities, deactivates with death.

Additionally, Mend needs a buff. Urgently.

[TheTundraTerror]

14 minutes ago, achromos said:

Hysteria cost HALF as much as Defy.  (Hysteria 2.5, Defy 5.)  Hysteria grants full immortality, Defy grants psudo immortality that will drain energy directly from you each time you technically 'die'

Yeah, at base. Defy can easily be modded to 1.25 per second (do you even efficiency + duration) with Rage giving you energy in a feedback loop while giving you 8 seconds of pure invulnerability (or go 1.77 per second with 14s of invulnerability). It would take almost 2 minutes of you doing nothing for you to die as Wukong against a level 80 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Meanwhile, Hysteria is going to have it's cost ramp up as it's used. Likewise, turning off Defy doesn't risk downing you. Oh, and Wukong can use both guns and melee while Valk only has her claws.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[Maxis_55]

12 minutes ago, achromos said:

While this is true... that DE has a habit of nerfing things to the ground so much that nobody will touch them...  (Synoid gammacor...)

 

If they are sticking to what is posted here?  I don't see any reason to freak out.  I'd rather try things out in practice then freak out over a sheet of paper tbh.

It's arguably easy to understand how bad some of this changes are. And, well, no matter of how good or bad changes are, there are much more people that yells "Yeah, balancing is good" 10 second after they've seen that post was created. It may sound a bit optimistic, but creating more post like this, there is more chances that some of developers will actually take a look on criticism.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Maxis_55

[Geraion]

30 minutes ago, Maxis_55 said:

They didn't say that Mesa's "rework" was a nerf also. Maybe it to confuse someone to think that "a slight rework" is always a good thing, and, well, it works. Some people still think that nerf and "rework" are separate in this game, even if some warframe becomes more gorges after rework(Frost), and some become useless(Mesa) .

I agree to a point, but don't sell fur before the bear's shot, so to speak.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, DuskLegendary said:

But why isn't anyone acknowledging that we use these broken abilities to counter even more broken enemies?

enemies are not more broken than us. i agree the one-shot / be-one-shot mess that is our endgame has to end and that there's more to that than balancing our tools here and there but to claim the skill adjustments mentioned in OP are breaking means neccessary to cope with high level content is just plain wrong.

[Koed]

I personally think any ability that makes you invulnerable has no place in this game. Would have liked bigger balls from DE and just changed to a damage reduction based on power stre or something like that.

Slide EB energy cost is pretty dumb though as others have stated.