Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

no mods, no complications 

passive ability for all frames, at least 50% of the original vacuum sife

[Multicom-EN-]

3 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

 

My bad.

[SnuggleBuckets]

16 hours ago, MartinVole said:

According to my poll, that is not too inaccurate. Of course, it doesn't include that option, one could reasonably assume.

Loving that poll, shows unambiguously how the majority thinks.

And I also have issues with an obsession of balancing stuff, always giving something a negative aspect; for the most part, this is a coop game, the minor PvP aspects are by design optional (and balanced separately from the main game) and people don't seem to like playing that. This is not a competitive game, so any thoughts about balance should be towards fun, not equalizing everything, levelling the playing field. If having an Ash or Ember or Mirage with Simulor currently on your team robs other teammates from their fun then that's a perfectly valid reason to tweak their ultimate abilities, but they should always be tweaked so that everyone on the team is happy to cooperate and still able to feel like a super ninja with ultimate abilities.

Vacuum is to keep the game fun, fluid and less annoying, and balance should not enter the equation. If you don't need vacuum and can handle picking stuff up by yourself, or don't feel the need to collect items, then good for you, I'm glad you find enjoyment despite minor annoyances, but you are outvoted now, and this will hardly affect you negatively if they do bring universal innate vacuum for everybody.

[Gelkor]

There's like, a megathread for this. 

[Nazrethim]

I don't agree with Shy! Luna and whatever the other one can drown for all I care, but Twilight Sparkle is cool!

[(XBOX)Black Mouse]

I was just pondering on this. When the crew and I were doing long runs we would DC often. I mean really long runs, 300 wave defenses or 4 hour and up survivals. One of our members reached out to DE. We where told by DE to pick up as much loot as we can to keep the game from lagging or DCing on long run.

Will not having a vacuum that picks up all break long runs? Will 8 hour survivals and hundreds of waves just crash the game?

Thoughts anyone?

[Azrael]

9 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

There's like, a megathread for this. 

Welcome to the megathread.  :)

I guess you could say you've been... vacuumed up into it?

[TrueHawkEye]

The pickups disappear after 150 mods are on the flied and resources disappear when there is about 100 and health and energy disappear when there is close to 50 on the playing field.

[Hixlysss]

Just now, TrueHawkEye said:

The pickups disappear after 150 mods are on the flied and resources disappear when there is about 100 and health and energy disappear when there is close to 50 on the playing field.

I...did not know this. So...in essence...having vacuum is highly needed...bordering on mandatory.

[Gelkor]

On hella long runs Carriers usually die anyways. 

[(XBOX)Black Mouse]

Cool Thank you TrueHawkEye. This was the info I was looking for. Long runs live on !!!!!

[Shockwave-]

19 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

It's a sidegrade because he gets a new ability.

And vac now hits ALL sentinels in the same way.

You are just focusing on vac ignoring the other effects that happen.

I've never used a gun that ran out of ammo... so no, it's a nerf. It is a nerf to vaccum. Carrier is getting a downgrade from being able to vaccuum (a power 90% of players use) to being ammo drum ( a mod NOBODY uses) and maybe a small mutation (a mod that is RARELY used).

 

Either way you slice it, it's a downgrade to vacuum

[Lockhart77]

Not gonna break long runs, cause if I'm gonna be doing long runs with the intention of getting resource I will opt to have the loot vacuum installed, and if I'm doing long runs for the sake of doing mission/long runs that would mean I would've spec my equipment to be as stand-alone as possible (that means I can have a source of healing for myself when needed) and fitting the role I need to do that I basically don't need to gather energy orb or health orbs most of the time.

Not really sure what's with all the noise with this vacuum thing, players will eventually reach the point where they will be stacked up on so much resources they don't know what to spent them on, the issue for this is more to the newer players but then again it's not exactly detrimental to the game itself since early on players aren't given a sentinel right away that can sucks up stuff with vacuum mod that at one point they'll be accustomed to it (least that's what happened to me). I mostly uses my sentinels nowadays for the Medi-ray and Animal sense anyway, the vacuum is just there for convenience purpose. The moment the vacuum rework actually happened and I can have the mod placed on other sentinels, I would switch to Wyrm or Diriga right away.

[MrM1]

So since DE wanted to rip Carrier's Vacuum into 3 different mods appart, people started to complain. Some even wanted to have the Vacuum on every single Sentinel / Companion. I mean: Why? Carrier himself does not deal that much damage (compare him with Helios: Helios can one-shot pretty much every enemy in the game, when modded right) and his Vacuum is kinda the only reason why people use him. I know that the pick up range is amazing but not that useful, I'd say. I don't use Carrier and can collect still all the loot. Maybe it takes more time but seriously, complaining about the fact that DE wants to remove the Vacuum, isn't really amazing, you know... I think DE finally realized that Vacuum / Carrier is way too overused / overrated, so people will finally manage to collect the loot on the old-school way. I'd say that's a good move by DE. And also we don't know what these 3 new mods will be. Maybe DE just split up the Vacuum into the ability to collect just 1 type if loot (resources, mods/Endo, credits) at the same time.

Edited September 18, 2016 by NovusNova
Removed Insult

[thelazyjaguar]

Turning Vacuum into a universal sentinel mod = good idea

Turning Vacuum into 3 separate universal sentinel mods = bad idea

In the long run, you're going to end up with 3 slots being used up on each sentinel as defacto mandatory mods.

 

There's a reason why people use carrier.  The game is already busy enough in what is happening on the screen for us to additionally track ammo/health/power drops so that we can stop what we're doing to physically walk over to them and pick them up so we can continue to fight.  Add to that the stuff that we would miss because it gets stuck behind walls or at the bottom of wells, and you start to see how necessary for your sanity it is.  Currently the carrier lets us focus on actual game-play rather than the subliminal version of a quest to go out and collect 10 rat pelts.

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

it doesn't have to make sense or not make sense - it's still been a problem in other games. games with larger playerbases than Warframe.

I'm curious, can you give me a crash course on those problems?

I'm not asking this to be snarky. I'm genuinely asking. I'd search, but it'd take a while to figure out how to phrase the system, figure out specific games, etc.

[Redthirst]

The idea behind the change is that every companion get Vacuum. Also, you can be smug about "lazy players who can't handle the old-school ways" but this doesn't change the fact that normal loot system doesn't fit the game.

[Genoscythe]

The old-school way is obnoxious and boring for most players, easy as that. If you enjoy running around a room everytime something drops, I respect that. But do not insult people who want to get their stuff done quickly and actually concentrate on the mission.

 

I had to play the game a fair while the old fashioned way before carrier was released (and vacuum was changed/fixed several times until it got its present form), and I think having to run over every pickup in a game where rooms are most likely covered in pickups is not really making the game any better nor adding anything to gameplay.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Genoscythe

[RenownedWheat42]

You might have almost had a point, if you didn't suddenly devolve to insults.

[ShiraHagane]

19 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

I've never used a gun that ran out of ammo... so no, it's a nerf. It is a nerf to vaccum. Carrier is getting a downgrade from being able to vaccuum (a power 90% of players use) to being ammo drum ( a mod NOBODY uses) and maybe a small mutation (a mod that is RARELY used).

 

Either way you slice it, it's a downgrade to vacuum

you're forgetting that you can't even use vacuum on CARRIER without sacrificing other mods

[Arkvold]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

it doesn't have to make sense or not make sense - it's still been a problem in other games. games with larger playerbases than Warframe.

And pray tell, which games are these?  Because I can't think of a single example of a game that's comparable to Warframe where this A). can occur and B). has been a problem.

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

you are just trying to annoy people.

it is not overrated to pick up a item from a enemy that you killed- Enemy killed -> get loot. It is a normal game function. Carrier is not even my most used companion and I still think that he is the best because he is. If you farm something you have to give up a companion slot to pick up something, oh really

In a game where you can clear a mission in 1 minute (and raid in 10 minutes) you really expect us to go pick up a item 5 feet away from me where I could have killed a enemy in the mean time 

It is not lazy.

 

[(PSN)AB_FC_314]

In a high level content, no one would walk up to 100+ level bombard/napalm and tell them ill pick up this energy/health orb. if him/her is running a survivals I'm sure they're not gonna wast time collecting loots one by one. on the other hand 3 loot mods are wasting mod slots, if a player use all three loot mods.

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by (PS4)Aye_Dude4
add words

[bl4ckhunter]

killing stuff is easier than picking up loot hence why carrier is a lot more useful than everything else. 90%  of the playerbase wants it so you can go stuff it as far as i care with your "lazy" argument. there i said it.

Edited September 18, 2016 by bl4ckhunter

[blackheartstar_pc]

It is very over rated. I would assume it's mostly new players using it as they haven't accumulated hundreds of thousands to millions of every resource or tens of millions of credits but I've been informed that "everyone" uses only Carrier. That makes me think they haven't played any other 3rd person action game where you have to pick up items and loot. Change is whatever. Just a nerf to Carrier (only use with Nekros and Hydroid anyway) using 2 more mods slots on him to get the full Vacuum experience, but still a unnecessary change.

Edited September 18, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc