Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[jinxeverything]

DE can solve this issue by simply giving us the ability to gain the loot by simply killing enemies, you know, shoot the baddies and the loot automatically added to your inventory (if you kill enemy its loot is shared to all players and vise versa), with that there's no need to Shred the Vaccum to pieces, just replace it with something else for Carrier. 

The same goes for crates pick ups, if you pick something up it automatically added to everyone's inventories and vise versa.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Prinny13

[MartinVole]

56 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

Loving that poll, shows unambiguously how the majority thinks.

Yeah, it does. Even the highest to lowest voted items shows a good trend of the general attitude of the community without any uncertainty. Unhappy with splitting the mods, unhappy with vacuum as it is currently. Pretty obvious, but never expected the numbers to be that low when I made it, nor so weighted in one direction.

[xBomber]

Let me be honest, im lazy. Im not even keeping up with this whole change that will occur. But I'll throw it out there, I'm lazy. And I've put in a lot of time into this game. After a certain point, it becomes a chore to go around collecting all these resources that enemies drop. Im wasting time I could spend doing other things. And there are times when i dont have the time to run around and collect everything. So i use carrier prime.

[Vohim]

theres also the fact they ll turn carrier into an ammo mutator so that means  a free mod slot on weapons as well wich is amazing , if anything i think carrier will be used even more 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Retepzednem

[Wandrecanada]

While I can agree with the idea behind the original post it ignores a core point of Warframe. Monitization is a part of what keep the game running and drops are part of that model.

Rule of thumb is that if a booster exists for something in a game; it is a core part of the income model. Changing vacuum would arguably change some of the standard model for revenue. I will grant that since everyone is already heavily using vacuum the damage is already done but it should be taken into account.

The takeaway is that with any changes to drop/collection rates, we can assume the team may also take this time to adjust drop rates to accommodate their revenue model.

[Th3Spaceman]

Please, I just want to use dethcube without having to waste more mod slots

[Gelkor]

Just now, Th3Spaceman said:

Please, I just want to use dethcube without having to waste more mod slots

Again, seriously?

Megathread: 

 

[_Mozzy_]

My Vacuum suggestion, from a MR22 with 2000+ hours in the game over 2 years, the majority of which spent using Kubrows, but using carrier 100% of the time when specifically farming resources. 

Add an option in gameplay options: Loot Vacuum On/Off.

• Would work for all Warframes all of the time you had it turned on in exactly the same way Carrier's maxed Vacuum works currently.
• Would not penalize use of any sentinels/kubrows/kuvats in terms of loot collection.
• Would not remove choice from players who don't want Vacuum on all the time.
• Would (imo) still make sense lore wise, we're magical ninjas in space. I'm sure our powers can be extended to picking up things from a distance without the aid of a flying roomba.

Changing Carrier's precept to ammo conversion/mutation sounds like a great idea to me, would save a mod space on my ammo hungry guns (Amprex, Flux Rifle, Synoid Gammacor, etc).

Also imo, making three separate Vacuum mods is half baked, needlessly complicated, solution to a problem that extends to all companions, not just sentinels. 

[Tizodd]

1. Underrated/overrated is extremely subjective.  Personally, I don't find Vacuum is underrated at all.  Vacuum helps me enjoy the game more because I don't have to be concerned with walking right on top of each piece of loot on the map.  In a fast paced game like Warframe, the current loot system w/o Vacuum is very counterproductive.
2. Resorting to insults and cussing is childish and unnecessary.  Also, try and consider the fact that your idea of fun may not be everyone else's idea of fun.
3. The best/simplest solution to this Vacuum issue is to give all frames innate area looting (there's no reason for it to be tied to a companion or mod), with the option to toggle it off/on (either in Arsenal or the pause menu) for people who prefer running on top of each piece of loot.

[MartinVole]

2 minutes ago, _Mozzy_ said:

My Vacuum suggestion, from a MR22 with 2000+ hours in the game over 2 years, the majority of which spent using Kubrows, but using carrier 100% of the time when specifically farming resources. 

Add an option in gameplay options: Loot Vacuum On/Off.

• Would work for all Warframes all of the time you had it turned on in exactly the same way Carrier's maxed Vacuum works currently.
• Would not penalize use of any sentinels/kubrows/kuvats in terms of loot collection.
• Would not remove choice from players who don't want Vacuum on all the time.
• Would (imo) still make sense lore wise, we're magical ninjas in space. I'm sure our powers can be extended to picking up things from a distance without the aid of a flying roomba.

Changing Carrier's precept to ammo conversion/mutation sounds like a great idea to me, would save a mod space on my ammo hungry guns (Amprex, Flux Rifle, Synoid Gammacor, etc).

Also imo, making three separate Vacuum mods is half baked, needlessly complicated, solution to a problem that extends to all companions, not just sentinels. 

Sounds pretty good to me. And the people who don't want it can just turn it off. No harm, no foul.

[Arkvold]

24 minutes ago, Wandrecanada said:

While I can agree with the idea behind the original post it ignores a core point of Warframe. Monitization is a part of what keep the game running and drops are part of that model.

Rule of thumb is that if a booster exists for something in a game; it is a core part of the income model. Changing vacuum would arguably change some of the standard model for revenue. I will grant that since everyone is already heavily using vacuum the damage is already done but it should be taken into account.

The takeaway is that with any changes to drop/collection rates, we can assume the team may also take this time to adjust drop rates to accommodate their revenue model.

There's one flaw in your argument here.

Boosters would be even more valuable in an environment where Vacuum is inherent or even unnecessary.  Why?  Because all your drops would still get boosted, and you would get all of them, so your boosters would be doing more for you.  You can buy the booster and then just play the game, confident that you're not going to miss that resource that you so desperately need that you bought a booster for it.  Might it reduce booster purchasing?  Maybe.  But it's just as likely to increase farming, which in turn makes boosters more desirable because people can farm for longer without getting burned out (less stress about picking up your drops, after all), and they're getting more out of their booster (since they're not missing anything anymore).

Vacuum does nothing more than help ensure that you get all the rewards that you earned.  A company that balances its monetization around the idea that you can earn rewards and then not receive them, doesn't deserve the money they're asking for.

Besides, when you're talking about DE's income model, keep in mind that they get their income when you buy the platinum.  They don't give a damn what you spend it on after that point, all they need to do is ensure that there are sufficient things that you will spend it on, so that it leaves the player market and prices don't inflate.  That's taken care of in the form of inventory slots, extra potatoes, exilus adapters, occasionally forma (which now come in packs of 3 at a discount), cosmetic items, greater lenses for those who don't want to farm sorties, and numerous other things that people regularly buy in addition to boosters.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Arkvold

[Rioma]

do you have remote control for your tv or do you get up and push channel up 72 times? Do you have shortcuts to launch your games or do you dig through all your files every time to get to the launcher?

if you want to stay glued to the floor for like 30 seconds and pick up items manually go ahead. Meanwhile we vacuum users will bullet jump into the same room and grab everything in 2-3 seconds while you walk around.

You call it lazy we call it being efficient. 

[Mak_Gohae]

56 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

I've never used a gun that ran out of ammo... so no, it's a nerf. It is a nerf to vaccum. Carrier is getting a downgrade from being able to vaccuum (a power 90% of players use) to being ammo drum ( a mod NOBODY uses) and maybe a small mutation (a mod that is RARELY used).

 

Either way you slice it, it's a downgrade to vacuum

come on man, this game wasnt created just for you.

I was just doing that grineer sortie and it had a bunch of eximi and i ran out of ammo for my atomos. If i had carrier i probably wouldnt have.

 

 

[spacedkadet]

The flip side to OP's post is this: I do not need my sentinel to kill for me, I have no need for it to do damage

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

Carrier himself does not deal that much damage

Myself and many others (most others?) can kill on our own without the need of help. The only thing I want from a sentinel is UTILITY. Hence my carrier does not even have the attack precept installed and instead focus its efforts on its other uses. If they do split vacuum into 3 (i hope to go they don't) then I will be using prisma shade as my sentinel of choice, again for Utility.

If carrier becomes an ammo related sentinel then I doubt you'll ever see it again.

[(XBOX)DHG CABO0SE]

2 hours ago, spacedkadet said:

The flip side to OP's post is this: I do not need my sentinel to kill for me, I have no need for it to do damage

Myself and many others (most others?) can kill on our own without the need of help. The only thing I want from a sentinel is UTILITY. Hence my carrier does not even have the attack precept installed and instead focus its efforts on its other uses. If they do split vacuum into 3 (i hope to go they don't) then I will be using prisma shade as my sentinel of choice, again for Utility.

If carrier becomes an ammo related sentinel then I doubt you'll ever see it again.

I agree while heartedly. I use carrier for efficiency. Ammo sentinel is stupid. I used a bow and have no need for it. I use a Kubrow for caps and farming for argons.

 Don't like it. Don't use it. It is plain and simple. Leave my parrot alone.

Edited September 18, 2016 by (XB1)DHG CABO0SE

[Mak_Gohae]

18 hours ago, DAWGUNITALPHA said:

Forcing every player to manually walk over every single item is just going to make it even less fun and interesting to play the game with other people.

let's not turn this into the US political race, ok?

You dont have to walk over loot to pick it up. You just have to pass close to it.

Stop saying "force" also. This is game rule in this game like it is in many other games.

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, ShiraHagane said:

you're forgetting that you can't even use vacuum on CARRIER without sacrificing other mods

no, I'm not cause I'm comparing it to the the current reality. For people that currently choose to use vacuum (90% of the players) this is a straight up nerf to carrier and vacuum.

[Arkvold]

Carrier overrated?  Not really.  Right now, Carrier, or more specifically vacuum, is the only assurance of any kind that you will get the rewards you have earned.

Warframe is a loot-focused high-speed high-mobility third-person shooter.  You fly around like overcaffeinated flying squirrels with guns, shooting the crap out of everything in your path, and grab the loot that they drop.

Except that when loot drops, you have to stop, identify where the loot dropped, land, walk over it to pick it up, and then get back into the air and shooting again, all before the enemies kill you.  They will kill you, too, if you give 'em half a chance, because for the majority of Warframes, mobility is the best defense.

Players rightly identified this as terrible, and looked for a solution.

Carrier and its unique Vacuum precept was the best solution that presented itself.  Being able to pick up loot rapidly just by flying through its general vicinity and having it gravitate towards you made loot collection faster, less stressful, more thorough, and best of all less likely to get you killed.  Naturally, in a loot-focused game, where your overall ability to function is based upon your ability to loot and loot effectively and thoroughly and then make good use of those resources, having more resources and not having to jeopardize your survival to get those resources is unequivocally a good idea.  The fact that carrier can also circumvent bugs and bad game design in order to retrieve loot that gets stuck in walls or ceilings, or that falls into the void and fail to get respawned, is just icing on the cake.  Carrier is, therefore, understandably and justifiably popular in such an environment.

Other options were offered.  Like companions that could generate loot, or provide huge crit bonuses, or even fight capably on their own.  These each had their own followings and people who liked them, but they didn't achieve Carrier's popularity because they don't address a fundamental goal of the game.  That being, ensuring that you get all the rewards you earned.

To reduce Carrier's popularity, and bring other companions up to its popularity, getting the rewards you've earned needs to stop being more difficult and riskier without it.  Numerous threads and posts have been made about solutions.  My personal favorite?  If vacuum is removed and you simply automatically get anything that drops, and what is auto-collected is controllable via options, all companions are on an even playing field, and the popularity of companions will be shaken up again now that there's no companion that provides such a huge boost to quality-of-life and fundamental playability.  Game flow will be fast and agile, as it should be in a game about space-ninjas, and people can indulge in high-flying acrobatics without the worry of missing loot grounding them.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Arkvold

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

So since DE wanted to rip Carrier's Vacuum into 3 different mods appart, people started to complain. Some even wanted to have the Vacuum on every single Sentinel / Companion. I mean: Why? Carrier himself does not deal that much damage (compare him with Helios: Helios can one-shot pretty much every enemy in the game, when modded right) and his Vacuum is kinda the only reason why people use him. I know that the pick up range is amazing but not that useful, I'd say. I don't use Carrier and can collect still all the loot. Maybe it takes more time but seriously, complaining about the fact that DE wants to remove the Vacuum, isn't really amazing, you know... I think DE finally realized that Vacuum / Carrier is way too overused / overrated, so people will finally manage to collect the loot on the old-school way. I'd say that's a good move by DE. And also we don't know what these 3 new mods will be. Maybe DE just split up the Vacuum into the ability to collect just 1 type if loot (resources, mods/Endo, credits) at the same time.

making picking up stuff not a chore was why i used carrier, now its going to be a chore to run around like a lost puppy picking stuff up

[Wolfdoggie]

It's actually underrated~ otherwise it'd be universal already because they underrate how important it is to be. 

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

1 hour ago, Genoscythe said:

The old-school way is obnoxious and boring for most players, easy as that. If you enjoy running around a room everytime something drops, I respect that. But do not insult people who want to get their stuff done quickly and actually concentrate on the mission.

 

I had to play the game a fair while the old fashioned way before carrier was released (and vacuum was changed/fixed several times until it got its present form), and I think having to run over every pickup in a game where rooms are most likely covered in pickups is not really making the game any better nor adding anything to gameplay.

i have been gone for awhile, why is this even being brought up, there are PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS DE SHOULD BE WORKING ON TO FIX, if it ain't broke don't fix it, jeez it's like every time i get on here to look at stuff from time to time all these unnecessary changes are being made for no reason 

[Troll_Logic]

47 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

come on man, this game wasnt created just for you.

I was just doing that grineer sortie and it had a bunch of eximi and i ran out of ammo for my atomos. If i had carrier i probably wouldnt have.

Maybe keeping you from running out of ammo in a mission is certainly a good enough reason to break vacuum for millions of players.

After all, it isn't like there is an pistol ammo mutation.  Or a primed version.  Or a team ammo restore.  Or medium team ammo restore.  Or large team ammo restore.

The first line in your post is quite ironic.

 

Anyway. I doubt it would have made a difference.  I don't think the carrier ammo mutation works like the regular ammo mutation.  I remember the devs saying something about it being timed.

[Thunderblunder66]

16 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

You would think they would make him suck in enemies towards the player or something.

Djinn already does that.

[radastir]

#vacugate

[MartinVole]

11 minutes ago, Thunderblunder66 said:

Djinn already does that.

No, we need to store enemies for later use in other missions. :p