Theoretically, why are there no "heavy set" warframes yet?

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Ryddem said:

Obesity is never something that anyone should be promoting wether it's in games or pop-culture or anywhere else for that matter! 

I'm so tired of all this fat-acceptance bullsh*t. 

It's not so much "fat acceptance" as it is understanding that some people just carry extra weight and are still healthy/athletic. 

 

[Inarticulate]

1 minute ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Of course, again, why build something in a specific way and purposely NOT make it workable?

I can purposely design a hammer to look like a wrench and make it work as a hammer or I can design a hammer to look like a hammer and it will just work.

3 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Why are you using human biology when discussing warframes?

If we are going to do that then there needs to be a rework of Nekros and Inaros. Because they shouldn't be able to move let alone bullet jump around.

Because all Warframes currently in existence are designed with the image of the human body in mind.

There's nothing structurally preventing Nekros and Inaros from having a wide range of mobility and range of motion. In fact, it would be easier for them to do so because they have less bulk restricting their motion and less weight to carry. These are bio-mechanical golems in the shape of humans, not humans.

Furthermore, Nekros and Inaros have a physique fairly similar to that of an emaciated human. It can be assumed that a fat Warframe would be built in the image of a fat human. As such, the fact that human bodies resist putting bulk around specific joints is relevant information.

9 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Given that stamina was a separate bar, im going to continue to follow that mechanic even though is not in play. The void energy reserve for movement is separate from the void energy used for powers.

Given that there is logically a limit to the throughput of energy that a Warframe can use, it is unlikely that this is the case.

17 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

And yes, this frame will probably be slow like Frost, and?

Fall through floors.

And probably break its knees landing from a jump. If not, it'll at least have some pretty bad arthritis.

[HalfDarkShadow]

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

And the bigger structure to support it would also need to support and propel its own weight as well.

Furthermore, you also have to deal with the Warframe's own structural integrity. The weakest link will be the first to fail, and that will almost certainly be one of the leg joints, which have to carry the entire weight of the Warframe crashing down on its small cross-sectional area for every step that the Warframe takes.

The human body gathers less fat at its joints (presumably so that the joints can actually move), meaning that as long as a fat Warframe is given human proportions, its weight will increase faster than the cross-sectional area of its joints, leaving structural weaknesses that require greater upkeep and a higher chance of failure. An increase in girth needs to be accompanied by a proportionally equal increase in the girth of the joint to distribute the weight it needs to support, but doing so limits the mobility of the joint by putting bulk in the way of its range of motion.

Taking into account the magical requirements, it's clear that bullet jumping makes use of Void energy; the Warframe's lower legs visibly glow when performing a bullet jump. The greater the weight of the Warframe, the more energy needs to be consumed to propel it at the same speed, resulting in inefficient use of Void energy that could be better spent elsewhere.

In the end, all you would get is a Warframe that is less mobile, less dexterous, more likely to suffer internal failure, more likely to fall through the floor, and has less energy to cast abilities by virtue of unnecessarily spending energy to supplement its chassis's mobility and probably also prevent it from collapsing under its own weight.

 

Spoiler

 

---

Anyway on a serious note:

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Lore-wise it makes sense. They are drones, it doesnt matter.  This is why we have inaros and Nekros with their skeletal bodies.
 

  Hide contents

 

Yes, bigger machine serves no purpose. That's why there arent big ships, big, planes, jets, helicopters.

Bulk makes no sense? Yeah, tell that to sumo wrestlers or the tackles in American Football.

 

 

You see, I think I understand where you're coming from, but then you get into the territory of contradicting yourself.

So I get the first bit, you dismiss the claim that "it doesn't matter" with realism but then you go ahead and use examples of such thing you're dismissing. This isn't some grey line or whatever. You either dismiss it or you don't.

Again, if you're going to pull from real-life examples, then @zehne and @Inarticulate have every right to do the same.

Also in regards to Inaros, at least to me I figured it was pretty obvious the lack of limbs, since he doesn't need it. His third ability literally detaches himself.
But that's beside the point, the reason for their skeletal features is to fit the theme. It's to [aesthetically] support their ability kits and overall theme for what the Art team is trying to get across. The easiest example is Nekros. Commonly necromancers and idea philosophies around reanimating the dead and such, are in many cases depicted with skeletal like features. Hell, the very idea of the Grim Reaper is portrayed as a literal skeleton. No one thinks of Oogie Boogie from The Nightmare Before Christmas.
As many have already pointed out, if the request is to make certain proportions for the sake of proportions, in many eyes that's not a good design choice. Refer to @Vox_Preliator post, as he puts it much more brillantly and savvy than I can lol.

4 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

A Heavy Weapondy theme.  Bristling with armor and guns, whose 4 is like Peacemaker but with fourteen gatling guns, nine rocket launchers, and enough laser cannons it makes Vay Hek's Balor Fomorians feel inadequate.  Oversized and overkill in every department but agility.  Not that this is even close to the only option, but I believe it could be done.

But we have to keep in mind that Warframes were designed as an ideal by a race of narcissists.  Even if one designer had a thing for overweight people, it couldn't be an "unhealthy" sort of overweight because to be unhealthy is far from an ideal, "kinda bulky" is probably the most we could reasonably expect.

Said it before, I'll say it again:  You want a body type represented for whatever reason?  Start with designing a frame with a theme that has that as a SECONDARY, but necessary, aspect.  If it was "the fat frame," it would all end in flames no matter how noble it began.  However, if it was, for example, "the Big Guns frame," who by necessity of the design was the largest frame yet, I doubt anyone would bat an eye.

 

---

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if you want my personal opinion on this "debate", it doesn't matter to me what Mynki, Mat, Ron, and the rest of the Art team choose to do, as long it's done well and is consistent to the overall theme, than all is good lol.

I put "debate" in quotations because outside of the argument of how much realism is applied to Warframe and how does it apply to a person and Warframe's weight, everything else I don't believe really promotes any sort of healthy discussion whatsoever, regardless of intention.

Spoiler

My previous bit regarding your post which tries to devalue their reasoning and whole-hearted explanations by saying "it doesn't matter" without going into much detail on what do you mean by that and why is it ok to apply what you're dismissing to your American Football example; is a small example of what I'm talking about.
I don't think you were trying to be malicious or anything, but it's hard to understand what you're trying to get across with those misunderstandings.

Because honestly there is no "debate" on whether something should or should not be in a game. It's purely their artistic vision, regardless if it makes any sort of realistic (or not realistic) approach to it. So in that regard it's a tad silly to say what should and what shouldn't. Sure we can agree with their choice or disagree with it, but by the end of the day it's there call. Again, as long as it's done well and it's aesthetics have some sort of relation to the abilities and overall design philosophy then I couldn't be anymore supportive of it.

Edited October 25, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[arch111]

Remember the debate and loud voices saying the Banshee premiumskin was fat?

When a thread like this reaches about this length, I can't help but think that kind of thinking is partly to blame for the resistance of a wider and fuller body.

We have to realize "fat" in Warframes world would still maintain the artdirection. Well, excluding the sumo-guards.in War Within Teaser naturally.

[Dogefighter]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said:

When was the last time you saw a parkouring sumo wrestler?

 

off topic- Seigward might not fill out the entire Catarina armor. the armor description says that it was made that way to deflect sword strikes. Seigward may be a bean pole compaired to his armor

Yeah, no, you can even see when you equip the armor yourself that it's just big armor

The description even says that it was designed as such on purpose, as you said, so y'know

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I would love it because it would provide for some neat design choices such as thick and heavily armored frame but it won't work because of accessories and the like having to be adjusted so they aren't clipping through your entire frame. It would require a lot of work to go fixing all the other things people normally skip through if they've been playing long enough. 

[(XBOX)DerangedMime00]

Basing my decision from these comments it may not be possible only for the reasons being a. Clipping issues and b. physics/movement rendering...could be real with next gen but maybe in the not too-distant future Tennogen customization could include custom made mods which allow it to be possible. Very not likely. Yet very possible on next gen or well after War Within. Have to admit without a doubt DE do a fine job most days like parkour. Then we get archwing. :(

[Brasten]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)DerangedMime00 said:

Yet very possible on next gen

If you're thinking about console hardware "generations" the limitations have nothing to do with that. Keep in mind Warframe is PC game ported to consoles, not the other way around. The technical limitation are entirely be around the skeletal/animation rig the Warframes share. To overcome that DE's animation team would have to go through and build a totally new rig, and then check the new rig against all the current attachments (including custom holster points, which already are kind iffy) and animations. Then anytime a new Attachment is added they'd need to set it up for both rigs, doubling the workload.

DE could totally do it with current tech, and it would run just fine, no issues with physics or graphical power of "current gen" console hardware. It's more an issue of programming-hours to both add the new Rig and keep it up to date with additions.

If you want an example of how that can go horribly wrong, remember back to the Kubat Horrors.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Brasten

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 hours ago, Calwon5 said:

Because it probably wouldn't be able to fit through the vents.

And theres your answer.

[ComfyOlivia]

Because DE hasn't gotten around to it yet, assuming that they eventually will. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

 

[Golmihr]

Because ninjas are not fat.

[jfhsanseiIII]

11 hours ago, Ryddem said:

This again huh? 

 

Why on earth would they add an obese character in a game about space ninjas? 

This argument doesn't really work because of frames like chroma, frost, and rhino.   If DE could come up with a a good reason for a large sized frame and make their abilities work with it, then there'd be little argument you could give for not making it.  Ninjas on their own came from all walks of life.  I personally wouldn't want a plus size frame if they were trying to be PC, but if they could make something that worked and made sense, then why not.  

[(PSN)MrDemigod81]

13 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

you missed one

people are saying because  a Space Ninja  should move fast lol hilarious.last I heard the Warframe is a empty shell with a teenager controlling it and why isn't rhino scrutinized he is a body builder ninja he shouldn't be moving like that at ALL!! so being obese doesnt stop the fact its FANASTY!! 

 

but you are spot on with the obese ninja lol well here's samo hung moving like a badass with flubber to show people obese ninjas shouldn't effect the game play unless it causing clipping

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by (PS4)BIGHEBREW

[MagPrime]

I'm seeing a few comments about a heavy set Warframe being acceptable as long as they "make sense"

What do you mean?  Do they have to have a power set that involved weight in order to be larger?

Why cant they be bigger just becaus they happen to be larger due to an aesthetic appeal?

[Ryddem]

7 hours ago, Noamuth said:

It's not so much "fat acceptance" as it is understanding that some people just carry extra weight and are still healthy/athletic. 

 

What!? 

Being obese is the total opposite of being athletic and no it's not healthy. 

I've been into body fitness for around 9 years and yes i know some power lifters that has a couple of extra kilos and being healthy, but they are not obese or even fat in any way.

There's a clear distinction of being obese and then have a couple of extra kilos but still athletic. 

[MagPrime]

53 minutes ago, Ryddem said:

What!? 

Being obese is the total opposite of being athletic and no it's not healthy. 

I've been into body fitness for around 9 years and yes i know some power lifters that has a couple of extra kilos and being healthy, but they are not obese or even fat in any way.

There's a clear distinction of being obese and then have a couple of extra kilos but still athletic. 

Wait wait, "into body fitness"

So, you haven't had any formal education on what healthy actually means?  You haven't taken any classes, gotten any certifications, spoken to actual medical professionals about the difference between obese and healthy and obese and unhealthy?

 

[megastorm]

ALOT of these comments are referring to the frames as if they are human and they carry our weakness. I am not against, nor with, the idea. But it would be nice to see a discussion not imposing that they are humanlike? I understand our point of reference can only relate to what we know, but can we honestly say a biomass/technocyte (I am not saying that is what warframes are made of) carry the same "problems" we would?

I am just having a hard time trying to understand the people who oppose this. Do we know what the gravity force/mass being applied where these places are? I can see people perception of earth. But we move just as elegant on jupiter compared to earth or pluto. I see no boosts given based on force of the planet. Also what if this "fat" warframe can overcome all the problems mentioned here just because its a "warframe". 

I will say that I am leaning towards it can work. I kinda feel people aren't really putting any effort in thought and being biased slightly. But then again, how good will it look?....because it is fashionframe after all.

[GreyEnneract]

10 hours ago, Noamuth said:

It's not so much "fat acceptance" as it is understanding that some people just carry extra weight and are still healthy/athletic. 

 

Weighing 300lbs as a human is not healthy.

[Kronxito]

16 hours ago, (XB1)DerangedMime00 said:

Ok I am really curious as to why DE has avoided creating a more heavy set warframe due to the fact we already have very tall, very short, straight, out-of-the-closet, etc. so it makes me wonder why they have not created a Sumo themed frame or something along those lines. Don't get me wrong here not adding insult nor injury just wondering why DE have not thought of one yet. What do you guys think on this; would it not be fun to have a more "rotund" character in game kicking some serious....clem?

Ad note: Take this guy pictured above. He may have been a bit of a laugh at first...until you see him solo a Giant which became a rather epic moment. ;)

Ummmm.... Rhino and Chroma have heavy set, as well as Vauban (but Vauban is only visual because he has very low armor stats xDDD)

[OtakuPizza]

90% responses feel like its coming from ppl that love to bully people who are physically on the heavier side.

coming to what the op says since when did ninjas have shape?

from parkour point of view i can imagine the fun and possibilities if the frame can change his outer appearance .

also  

i hear DE does listen and read what players post so in the end they decide so until we have input from them we cant judge anything .

[Doom_Bunny]

Let's start with comments from a previous thread.

Quote

As a health professional i'd like to weigh in on this and say that the idea of making obesity, by which i mean the medical definition of obesity a waist-hip ratio of 0.9 for men, 0.85 for women, is a terrible idea.

There are serious health risks to morbidity and mortality outcomes to obesity above these levels that rapidly scale the further away from this ideal you reach. The least of which are cardiovascular, hepatic, vascular, respiratory, musculoskeletal, neurological, endocrinological and further complexities beside. The idea of allowing these people to feel comfortable, even good about their health and fitness removes one of the greatest drives available to propel them towards a healthy lifestyle.

This not only causes problems in national health systems, particularly in universal healthcare models, where healthcare is paid for in full by the tax payer. Where a disproportional amount of money and resources are being spent on people who have what are essentially preventable health conditions. But also compounds the issues that health professionals face when treating people who are obese.

Given the abundance of research and science into the effects of obesity in health, i cannot see any argument that obesity should ever be accepted or even tolerated.

Quote

1: The Orokin

The Orokin (who created the Warframes) were obsessed with perfection. They were obsessed to a point where they altered their own DNA to change minor stuff like the colour of their eyes. And they EXECUTED people, if what they were researching did not meet their standards (See Crewman Synthesis here http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synthesis)

Do you really think a society striving for perfection will allow even 1 gramm of fat too much on their biologically engineered war machines?

2: The Frames

Frames consist of a chassis filled with something living. Probably infested tissue since Infested materials like Plastids, Nano Spores and Neurodes are used to craft Frames. The infested talk to our frames about joining them because they don't know the frames are remote controlled.

IF a frame would be fat, that frame would lose the excessive fat very quickly due to running around like SANIC on crack

3: Animations and clipping

They are a thing.

I am not a developer and I am not knowlegeable enough in this topic to explain properly. See other posts in this thread

4: Promoting the wrong body image

I will probaly get a lot of flak for this but:

Should we really have a fat character in a videogame when so many people are obese?

Should we really suggest people that it is okay to be overweight by means of accepting overweight characters in videogames about Space ninjas?

Even slight overweight is bad for your health. So let's set examples for how someones physique should look like, not how most of the population looks like.

Let's try to become like that Space ninja in real life and not turn the Frames into a reflection of what real life looks like.

Now then, in terms of lore physics we can judge by our ability to jump that the gravity across each level is the same unless augmented. In which case the weight of Rhino is about the limit for what is acceptable. His still able to jump the same but is much slower then any other frame. Anything heavier than Rhino would result in a frame that just can't keep up even when modded.

With the frame lore, it does point to whatever might be inside a warframe was human at some point. However the creation of warframes is mostly fluff until we get more lore connections.

In terms of promoting body image we do have frames like Nekros and Hydroid. However neither appear obese or anorexic and their body type can be found in many sport events.

Hit-boxes are a thing someone referencing Dark Souls should be familiar with. Depending on how hit-boxes are done in warframe an obese frame might have a larger hit area. Then there are such things as archwing, your arsenal, environment, and movement all of which would have problems with animation and clipping. Lastly you can't shoot through other warframes. Imaging how annoying this is going to be, to have an obese warframe constantly blocking allied shots and dying from taking all the damage because it can't get away fast enough.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Postal_pat

[Fionntan]

1 hour ago, GreyEnneract said:

Weighing 300lbs as a human is not healthy.

I hope this is sarcasm.....

 

Anyways, most in this thread forget that DE has the final say if they feel up to task to create a frame on the heavy side.

For all I know they can create an air filled frame or gravity frame that fits the memo for said body type  

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

No response on this thread has given an actual, legitimate reason as to why fat frames should exist in Warframe. Most of every supportive response is "X has fat character, why can't Warframe?" Now, this is a horrible way to support a position in any argument, because one system is completely different from the other (I.e choji from Naruto and the Warframes).

On the other hand, there have been many reasonable arguments saying why there shouldn't be fat frames, many relating to the mechanics of the game and lore (if there isn't any lore implications, I'm just gonna give my two cents).

Now, to state what someone said before, the Warframes follow a universal rig that is compatible with all Frames, having a fat frame would just complicate this rig causing clipping issues and such, even if the DEvs decide to make a completely different rig for this one Warframe, it'll just cause more work for a frame that is not part of the universal system.

 

Spoiler

  h cghhhhhxgsgsgazx

 

[LordOfScrugging]

16 hours ago, jsnforce said:

Can you imagine Survival missions? Lotus: "That should keep you going for a while. Except you chunky. You so winded I swore I had Zephyr on the line. You're so sweaty Hydroid is jealous. You're the reason orbiters don't have chairs. It takes two Operators to run your fat arse."

Damn, lotus can spit some hot flames. Roasted poor fatframe. #fatlivesmatter

edit: What people don't realize is, lore wise, frames were designed by the orokin. An egocentric empire full of people wanting everything to be perfect (to them) and to have everything aesthetically pleasing. I don't think Ballas looked at an obese body and though "That should be a killing machine"

Edited October 26, 2016 by LordOfScrugging