Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[Marine027]

The main problem in this mess sadly is how the powers not make sense anymore, since apperently her power came from the torture she gone trough, which makes me still hope they are there own beeings and not just puppets.

So basicly shouldn't Prime and Gersemi have different powers and be there own Frame then even?

Till the Trailer comes out we still have to guess alot.

[Abbados222]

I have a question about the lore because I don't understand this.

So back before the second dream, we didn't know who the operators were. Every warframe has its story. So to me it seems like every warframe is an independent being. Here for example is the explanation who valkyr is (got this from wiki)
 

Quote

 

Previously having thrived among the Tenno in her natural Gersemi form, Valkyr is known for her capture and subsequent torment at the hands of Alad V. The obsessed Corpus scientist would bring Valkyr to his lab on Themisto, Jupiter where she would be restrained and subjected to harsh experiments. This mad science would greatly expand the Corpus' knowledge of Warframe design, and consequentially left Valkyr maddened and scarred.

Ultimately, Valkyr was deconstructed and used to produce the Zanuka prototype, Alad V's companion fighting machine. However, blueprints of her components can still be found after defeating Alad V in combat.

Valkyr's abilities reflect her madness, accompanied by cries of anguish.

 

 

After the second dream and the war within I am really confused because now it seems that the operators are controlling these warframes. There was a sentence that didn't make sense to me when I played The War Within. I dont know what Teshin said exactly in this but he said that we are hiding behind a metal puppet. So are the warframes not independent? If we are controlling warframes then I don't understand the lore behind valkyr since this would mean that warframes can not move without operators. Only the operators give them life, right?

Can somebody explain this to a dingus like me :(

[Eda.Mone]

Not even DE knows what they are doing with their lore.
Only lord Gaben knows.

[VentiGlondi]

At the end of Second Dream the warframe was able to move without the operator.

I suspect Warframes aren't just mindless weapons.

[Voluundr]

"You think you're safe behind this metal, but you're not. Not in the ways that matter here", this might be the quote you're talking about.

As far as Warframes moving without Operators, in the Second Dream, after our Warframe is impaled by Hunhow's sword, and the Stalker closes in on the Operator, the Warframe sparks to life briefly and breaks the weapon. Warframes might have some sort of subconscious of their own, but overridden when we use Transference to control it. It's an idea, so don't take my word for it (or anything, really)

The Stalker also seems to be a Warframe in and of himself, considering he has the powers and mobility of one, but if he has an Operator or not remains to be seen. If he doesn't, then that might be proof that Warframes don't require an Operator to be functional, only the Transference allows direct control over it,

[OvAeons]

since when is a fan made skin canon?

Edited January 7, 2017 by OvAeons

[Cyberhazard]

Warframes are sentient being but dependant of the operator like a symbiosis link. Warframes are alive, they are made of infested flesh, they are living weapons. supposedly midless. But it won't surprise me that living weapons are able to develop a persona. Besides being made by infested flesh, they are not linked to the infestation's hive mind, instead of that, we are linked by transferance.   As I said on another topic, A Warframe is the warframe, A Tenno is the Tenno, The Warframe is the Tenno,  The Tenno is the Warframe. Despite being two different beings physically.

And to prove that Warframes are sentient beings,  look at Rhino Prime Codex Entry.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Cyberhazard

[BiancaRoughfin]

11 minutes ago, Abbados222 said:

I dont know what Teshin said exactly in this but he said that we are hiding behind a metal puppet. So are the warframes not independent?

Warframes are a vessel , they can either be controlled by someone through transference or in some cases house the mind of one ungifted by the void who operated them too frequently in the past.

As we all have seen in the Second Dream Quest when we are in the hands of the Stalker in our orbiter, our Warframe breaks the sword on his own. Maybe part of the mind of those who designed and tested them during the Orokin era still remain.

[SilvaDreams]

Well there is the big controversy of if the Warframes are thinking.

But I think TWW kind of hammers what little argument people had and supports my old theory that the operator was controlling it even if a bit subcontiously in their state of panic.

 

As for the lore part some could simply be stories of the original operators deeds with the frame, and in Valkyr's case it was more of a self made note than a fact as at the time we didn't know we weren't the Warframe.

[Abbados222]

5 minutes ago, Voluundr said:

"You think you're safe behind this metal, but you're not. Not in the ways that matter here", this might be the quote you're talking about.

As far as Warframes moving without Operators, in the Second Dream, after our Warframe is impaled by Hunhow's sword, and the Stalker closes in on the Operator, the Warframe sparks to life briefly and breaks the weapon. Warframes might have some sort of subconscious of their own, but overridden when we use Transference to control it. It's an idea, so don't take my word for it (or anything, really)

The Stalker also seems to be a Warframe in and of himself, considering he has the powers and mobility of one, but if he has an Operator or not remains to be seen. If he doesn't, then that might be proof that Warframes don't require an Operator to be functional, only the Transference allows direct control over it,

Exactly that quote thank you. I didn't remember what it was.

That would be interesting if the stalker would not require a operator. But the scene in the second dream when the stalker sees the operator for the first time, they kind of looked alike. At first I thought that the Stalker is a Tenno.

[Abbados222]

8 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

Warframes are sentient being but dependant of the operator like a symbiosis link. Warframes are alive, they are made of infested flesh, they are living weapons. supposedly midless. But it won't surprise me that living weapons are able to develop a persona. Besides being made by infested flesh, they are not linked to the infestation's hive mind, instead of that, we are linked by transferance.   As I said on another topic, A Warframe is the warframe, A Tenno is the Tenno, The Warframe is the Tenno,  The Tenno is the Warframe. Despite being two different beings physically.

 

5 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Warframes are a vessel , they can either be controlled by someone through transference or in some cases house the mind of one ungifted by the void who operated them too frequently in the past.

As we all have seen in the Second Dream Quest when we are in the hands of the Stalker in our orbiter, our Warframe breaks the sword on his own. Maybe part of the mind of those who designed and tested them during the Orokin era still remain.

Great explanation people thanks :)

 

5 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well there is the big controversy of if the Warframes are thinking.

But I think TWW kind of hammers what little argument people had and supports my old theory that the operator was controlling it even if a bit subcontiously in their state of panic.

 

As for the lore part some could simply be stories of the original operators deeds with the frame, and in Valkyr's case it was more of a self made note than a fact as at the time we didn't know we weren't the Warframe.

To be honest I also thought that this was a state of panic caused by the operator when the warframe moved on its own.

[o0Despair0o]

I like to do a little roleplaying most of them time, because the game itself doesn't really gives me the feeling that anything I'm doing here changes anything.

For example, in the Crossfire missions, where Grineer and Corpus fight each other, I pretend that I have been split from a big group of Warframes and need to catch up, but they can't help me because they got problems of their own. Or, when we get that pump-action shotgun, I'll probably imagine my Valkyr or Nyx kicking in a door on a Grineer ship, and having them look at me scared to death while I load the next shell with that classic pump move.

Basically I imagine myself being the main character in some kind of movie.

 

Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is, this whole "movie" idea basically is my way of adding lore and story to the game.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Abbados222 said:

 

Great explanation people thanks :)

 

To be honest I also thought that this was a state of panic caused by the operator when the warframe moved on its own.

It makes sense after all does it not? We were making it move with physical contact even in our weakened and confused state, what is a few feet?

It makes even more sense after TWW and finding our Margalis had locked away some of our powers to help keep us stable. But that only affects the contious part of our mind, not the subconscious which reacts instinctively.

[wolhgart]

32 minutes ago, Voluundr said:

The Stalker also seems to be a Warframe in and of himself, considering he has the powers and mobility of one, but if he has an Operator or not remains to be seen.

i think that the Stalker is a Tenno, and he was with us when the disaster happen but he escaped in the confusion and hasn't put in the chambers like us. he fought to stay alive and start training is powers to a point he can rival a Tenno with is Warframe 

[arch111]

A warframe is a host, a symbiotic biotechnical living machine that uses the void energy that a Tenno sends it and focuses that into powers.

The Infestation are related to the warframes;  they are made from infested tissue.

They are allso made from chassis and systems that are not infested. 

A neutral net allows Tenno remote control, sort of like in Avatar, meaning a.pilot can sense pain.

The infested subjects were alive and aware before the warframe project became a full War-project. Given cephalons are humans made machineAI, it is not hard to imagine that a warframe have an onboard persona that like a onboard OS and AI assists the pilot.

We now know a Tenno can move itself into a warframe completely,  the chair was just a restraint. 

it is possible a Tenno was in Valkyr and not using the chair. No wonder she went crazy from torture.

Allso, the Specters of the rail are aware but refer to their "Shadow Life".

 

[rapt0rman]

54 minutes ago, OvAeons said:

since when is a fan made skin canon?

If you're referring to the Gersemi skin, it's not fan made, designed and modeled by Minki himself.

[Xolot]

Considering the times we have been told of Warframes acting by themselves (Inaros, heavily implied) like Titania, the second dream ending, Mirage and Valkyr's stories that would make no sense without the Warframe being sentient. And adding to that Silvana's link with Titania that allowed her to discover a tortured presence when linking with the Warframe. It seems they have some level of sentience by themselves.

 

"These past weeks, I've been secretly testing Transference on myself. I can only survive short bursts - linking to Titania the way only Tenno can stand. I've never felt anything like it. A tortured presence, like an evil ink, staining my mind. But... it worked. I'm going to use this wrong to make right."

 

[Ailissa]

I don't believe the frames have any sentience at all.

 

As was said above, we were only a few feet away from out frame when it happened and we were controlling it even in a weakened state so it was either us or something akin to a death rattle where a body moves on it's own.

 

As for Valkyr, Mirage and Inaros. 

 

Up until TWW we believed we were the frames, the Lotus led us to believe that to keep our operators safe.

 

Those frames were controlled by operators but, just like us, believed they were the frame or at the very least inside it.

 

Warframes were manufactured weapons designed to "control" the powers of the Tenno because the Tenno had no control. That's all they are, weapons. They aren't mystical sentient beings, they are weapons built for us.

[Xolot]

9 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

I don't believe the frames have any sentience at all.

 

As was said above, we were only a few feet away from out frame when it happened and we were controlling it even in a weakened state so it was either us or something akin to a death rattle where a body moves on it's own.

 

As for Valkyr, Mirage and Inaros. 

 

Up until TWW we believed we were the frames, the Lotus led us to believe that to keep our operators safe.

 

Those frames were controlled by operators but, just like us, believed they were the frame or at the very least inside it.

 

Warframes were manufactured weapons designed to "control" the powers of the Tenno because the Tenno had no control. That's all they are, weapons. They aren't mystical sentient beings, they are weapons built for us.

And Titania defended Silvana until death because a mysterious never before knew Tenno though it was cool sacrificing his/her Warframe created by Silvana to save her?

[Ailissa]

1 minute ago, Xolot said:

And Titania defended Silvana until death because a mysterious never before knew Tenno though it was cool sacrificing his/her Warframe created by Silvana to save her?

Pretty much, yeah.

 

It makes a lot more sense than something she built magically coming to life. It's not Pinocchio, they don't turn into real boys.

[Xolot]

13 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

Pretty much, yeah.

 

It makes a lot more sense than something she built magically coming to life. It's not Pinocchio, they don't turn into real boys.

If we account that Warframes seems to be made out o biological living infested matter, that the only person that ever connected to that recently baked warframe was Silvana and that she said herself that she found a personality when she connected with Titania.

We shouldn't forget Lotus despairing because she lost Mirage, or Valkyr's rage imprinted in every Valkyr we have seen, indicating all Valkyr frames are connected somehow to the original tortured Valkyr, similar to the infested Hive Mind.

And we fight Inaros in his tomb in order to claim his blueprints, he could have spoken to us seeing we are Tennos too, but he didn't seem quite talkative for a fellow Tenno, well, at least mine won't stop talking during a mission or with lotus in special mission. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Xolot

[SenorClipClop]

9 hours ago, Abbados222 said:

After the second dream and the war within I am really confused because now it seems that the operators are controlling these warframes. There was a sentence that didn't make sense to me when I played The War Within. I dont know what Teshin said exactly in this but he said that we are hiding behind a metal puppet. So are the warframes not independent? If we are controlling warframes then I don't understand the lore behind valkyr since this would mean that warframes can not move without operators. Only the operators give them life, right?

There's some material in The Second Dream suggesting that Warframes might not be just empty puppets after all. It's still a mystery.

Relating back to Valkyr and her personality, and the resulting schism between how her personality appears and the personality of the Operator, we can look to some of the dialogue in missions. When the Warframe is damaged, sometimes the Operator will mention feeling pain personally, despite the Warframe's nature as a proxy. The Somatic Link may be able to transfer more than just actions, but additionally sensations, etc. If this is accurate, the rage and madness seen in Valkyr might in fact be the rage and madness of Valkyr's Operator, imparted onto the frame.

[DatDarkOne]

To me the best way to explain Warframes is to compare them directly to the Guyver units. Which the Devs themselves said was one of the inspirations for Warframe. Let's look at the similarities.

Both are bio-organic armor. Both are very powerful weapons. Both rebelled against their creators. As of the Second Dream, both can operate autonomously to protect the host. It's this last one that seems to cause confusion.

The Guyver itself is semi-sentient. It does have automated protocols in place that can seem like true sentience. So, I'm going to safely assume the warframes are like this also. Well until DE adds more information to either expand on this or debunk it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by DatDarkOne
corrected a error after doing more research.

[Dragru]

I think the warframes can move themselves but its more like a "we do better as one" kind of thing, so you merge together.

A recent kind of example is titanfall, where the titans move and do things on their own, but a pilot controlling it is far better than being seperated.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Dragru

[JakeTrans]

Based on how I took the lore pre-second dream and combining the ideas I had, what if there was two type of frame.

the "Tenno" Warframes and the "Operator" Warframes: the basic concept is the frame we used are copies of a orginal experments, knowing what we do at the moment in building what if there where the first frames worn by the first tenno to be "weaponised" these particular renno (perhaps the oldest) where merged with there suit in a way greater than what we have now and far more powerful.  Of course the Tenno are a very limited resource and the "Operator Model "was constructed and there was a method to build a clone body of the orginal from infested tissues (Grineer Cloning Tech Maxed out) creating a basically a puppet (with perhaps sparks of intelligence) the "Tenno" Warframe are the ones in the Codex with only a few accounted for (i.e. Ember, Valkyr) and perhaps the Tenno frames contain a link to there "children" frames creating the raging Valkyr.

Just some head-cannon I came up with based on the Marine Legions and Primarchs from Warhammer 40K along with the codex entries