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[DE]Rebecca

The road to 15/15 [Spoiler] Mods.

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Hey all,

I'll be using Spoiler tags in titles for just a bit longer until our Console family gets to see their first Riven Mods, although I wouldn't be surprised if the cat was way out of the bag by now.

You have likely noticed that there is a 15 Mod inventory Capacity on Riven Mods. We expect that some of you have started to reach this Capacity. This post aims to explain:

1) What happens right now when you reach Riven Capacity?
2) Why the Capacity exists at all?
3) What's next for the Capacity?

Read on to get these questions answered!

1) What happens right now when you reach Riven Capacity?

Right now if you are in the scenario of receiving a 16th Veiled Riven via Sortie, you're sent back to your Landing Craft and locked into making a choice of which Riven to Dissolve. It can be any Riven, even the Veiled one you just received. We don't love that it locks you into this decision immediately, which is why we're making this post to explain what's next.

2) Why the Capacity exists at all?
There are many reasons we started with a 15 Riven Mod Capacity, but the most important for future Riven conversations is the database impact storing Riven Mods has. As many of you have begin amassing collections, we can begin to see what will be scalable for the system across all future Weapon types.

3) What's next for the Capacity?
The first order of iteration is to make the experience of 'going over' Capacity more forgiving for you to make a choice of what to do with your excess Riven(s). As mentioned in point 1, right now you are locked to make a choice to immediately dissolve one. We are looking at ways to improve this demand on immediacy. The next order of iteration is how to allow collection growth without impacting the performance of our databases over time. This is something we're still undecided on as we're still measuring collections, but we're happy the demand is there.

Thank you - stay tuned for updates. We'll likely be discussing in Friday's Devstream too!

 

 

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A hint at whats to come for the dev stream. Im interested to see if rivens have done their job so far in your opinion and to see the future of the riven mod system.

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Maybe storage of Riven variables would be easier if riven stats per Prefix/Core/Suffix were standardized instead of a range like it is now.

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Sounds like an another (much needed) opportunity to motivate people to get higher mastery rank. Maybe increase capacity by +1 for every rank above 15?

Edited by -CM-Liverslices
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Why not have it based on MR since there are riven mods that require higher MR as is? It would give players an incentive to increase our rank other than "O look I'm MR20 isn't that nice." Maybe have the capacity increase by 5 or so per MR achieved. Also the only reason some are even close to capacity is by buying mods from others as you all have diluted the sortie tables with worthless rewards making some 1hr long sorties completely pointless.

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3 minutes ago, -CM-Liverslices said:

Sounds like an another (much needed) opportunity to motivate people to get higher mastery rank. Maybe increase capacity by +1 for every rank above 15?

I thought as much, but I was thinking of maybe doubling the overall capacity and restricting to 10 per category (10 Primary, 10 Secondary, 10 Melee). I know it sucks to suddenly limit more Rifle Rivens but...

Rebecca, what worries me most though is how you guys are going to adress acquisition when the 2 other categories are added. I understand giving a reliable way equals filling the cap much faster, but the way Sortie rewards are distributed right now though... There's a lot of possible rewards already...

Edited by NightmareT12
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Can't DE increase the size of said database to store the contents of riven mods?

Keep in mind i considered MR 12 to be a tad high when it came to a requirement for the sindicate primaries, MR 13 was also high and now at MR16 i was for the 1st time in 4k hours forced to grind for content i didn't want, so don't make the MR affect the number of riven mods.

Edited by KIREEK
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You could... I don't know, remove part of the "random" in the riven stats ? That sure would make it easier for the databases

Like if all riven for sybaris that grant damage would all grant a specific amount at each level (instead of a random amount depending on your luck)

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Would it help with data storage if:

1) Mods didn't have a SPECIFIC MR-requirement, but rather scaled with your MR instead (within the same scaling, lowest benefit at MR8, highest at MR16)
+
2) A specific stat is no longer completely random, even when said stat is on the same weapon and with the same MR-rank?
(Example: Currently, a MR16 Riven mod for Panthera with basedamage can give say, +180% at max rank, or +215% at max rank, all based on luck. If these were always the same, a Panthera Riven when you are MR16 would ALWAYS give, say, 215%, could that reduce data storage?)
+
3) There was a specific rule for their stats rather than either 2 or 3 positive stats, and MAYBE 1 negative stat? Why not make them all give 3 positive stats and 1 negative?
+
4) You took away some stat-possibilities (like critstats on weapons like  Miter/Panthera and negative basedamage/multishot)
 

Edited by Azamagon
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4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Can't DE increase the size of said database to store the contents of riven mods?

You can't just download data storage. It's an issue of infrastructure that they would need to buy, and that would take time, far more than a hotfix most likely. Also transferring data to new servers could cause a lot to go wrong, including loss of data if things really hit the fan. 

3 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

You could... I don't know, remove part of the "random" in the riven stats ? That sure would make it easier for the databases

Like if all riven for sybaris that grant damage would all grant a specific amount at each level (instead of a random amount depending on your luck)

That'd kinda defeat the point of them in the first place. They're supposed to be completely random.

 

I do like the idea of having Riven capacity increase with Mastery Rank like others have suggested. 

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2 minutes ago, Imaru said:

That'd kinda defeat the point of them in the first place. They're supposed to be completely random.

But that's completely stupid.

Why do I have a sybaris mod that grant 150% damage and when I cycle it I get another roll for +138% damage.

Why doesn't each stat have its own fixed %

First it would fix (part of) the database issue, and it would remove a bit of the random (a very VERY tiny bit)

Right now it's already non interesting and boring, I don't even get what they want to do with that system.

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I got a suggestion for reaching the riven mod cap: make it actually possible to drop from sorties. That would be great, because they don't seem to be doing so. o 3o

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It's nice to get a definitive reason as to why the cap exists. The only thing I've seen mentioned about it up until now is something about "limitations encouraging creativity and choice". Still hoping that the cap gets increased at some point down the line. But frankly, I'm a lot more willing to be patient knowing that the mod capacity is primarily due to technical limitations rather than just being a random design choice.

As far as being more forgiving about surpassing the riven mod total, I wonder how much of an affect it would have on the database to just allow for us to keep excess veiled mods from sorties. We wouldn't be able to unveil them until we're back under the cap, but they could stay in our inventory until we've had time to make room. Also, it would probably be best to prevent us from being able to receive riven mods via trading (even veiled mods) if we've hit our max.

Looking forward to Friday's devstream to hear more.

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29 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

I would request that you look into more useful methods of dissolving Riven mods, since it seems to be a built-in part of their existence.

Options might be: dissolving them into Kuva rather than Endo, or having the option to Transmute 4 unwanted Rivens into a new Veiled one.

I might suggest 2 Rivens instead, but aside from that this sounds perfect, I would like to add some possible extension to the dissolving into Kuva though, in that the more cycling you've done for it the more Kuva you would get out of it.

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29 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

Options might be: ... having the option to Transmute 4 unwanted Rivens into a new Veiled one.

Was just thinking a few minutes ago, this in particular would be a great option to me. Could maybe also allow the option to add one of Simaris' transmute cores to the mix to influence the polarity of the new mod.

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Just now, Trichouette said:

Right now it's already non interesting and boring, I don't even get what they want to do with that system.

Let me disagree with you. I got not too long ago a Vectis mod that reduced recoil considerably (80%. That's a LOT) while also adding 80% multishot roughly.

It seems to me people don't realize how godly such simple 2 stats on a weapon can be. And they also only take a single slot. That means a lot. It also allows you to change the way you build the weapon more easily or give the possibilities a twist.

These mods are seen as the ultimate powercreep factory (hurr durrr look at my Soma Prime with my Riven that gives me godly crit chance and crit damage with base damage/multishot ohohohohohoh), but truth is they open up a lot of possibilities for weapons that you otherwise might not use that much in the first place. It won't make me use a Braton (regular Braton, mind you) in high level content, but I may take out a few things out of my dusty Arsenal at last.

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5 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

But that's completely stupid.

Why do I have a sybaris mod that grant 150% damage and when I cycle it I get another roll for +138% damage.

Why doesn't each stat have its own fixed %

First it would fix (part of) the database issue, and it would remove a bit of the random (a very VERY tiny bit)

Right now it's already non interesting and boring, I don't even get what they want to do with that system.

The reason the stats are random is to encourage build variability.

If they were all the same (all Sybaris Riven mods are the same in your example) then they become no different from a standard mod. If the stats they have are random but the numbers are fixed, people would just reroll until they get the perfect set of stats. Having their stats and the values of those stats completely random is part of why Rivens exist in the first place, and removing that would just make them into another normal mod. 

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7 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

But that's completely stupid.

Why do I have a sybaris mod that grant 150% damage and when I cycle it I get another roll for +138% damage.

Why doesn't each stat have its own fixed %

First it would fix (part of) the database issue, and it would remove a bit of the random (a very VERY tiny bit)

Right now it's already non interesting and boring, I don't even get what they want to do with that system.

This is basically the crux of the issue I have with Rivens. I don't necessarily mind the random prefix-core-suffix you can get. But I don't like the random amount of stats you get from an organizational standpoint and from a simple game balance and progression standpoint. I like standardized and predictable methods of modifying and increasing my power/damage/character.

And, honestly, until it changes, I really don't think I'll be using Rivens.

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4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

-snip-

What I mean is rather, as long as I can't lock some stats, I don't see the point in grinding kuva for the whole day just to roll the mod forever to get random stupid stats like -recoil on amprex or -damage on any other weapon.

so far I didn't even get to reroll anything good at all, and some of my mods already have 8 cycle.

It's boring and tedious.

3 minutes ago, Imaru said:

If the stats they have are random but the numbers are fixed, people would just reroll until they get the perfect set of stats

Yaaay let's reroll 50time the same mod.

fun and totally not boring. Especially with the forever increasing kuva cost

1 minute ago, Gelkor said:

This is basically the crux of the issue I have with Rivens. I don't necessarily mind the random prefix-core-suffix you can get. But I don't like the random amount of stats you get from an organizational standpoint and from a simple game balance and progression standpoint. I like standardized and predictable methods of modifying and increasing my power/damage/character.

And, honestly, until it changes, I really don't think I'll be using Rivens.


Someone who understands, finally...

Edited by Trichouette
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