I don't like the direction Eximus enemies are going.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

I find it quite disappointing that DE would just lazily implement red "weak points" on Eximi that you need to destroy in order to kill them. It doesn't look fun, it looks annoying, and adding invincibility phases to otherwise regularly spawning enemies is bad game design, and it's a step backwards from what I know DE is capable of.

DE is just taking the same crappy mechanics they added to the Kuva Guardians (where they're invincible until hit in a specific way) and adding them to regular entities, and the idea needs to be scrapped.

Expected Responses:

1. "ERMAHGERD STERP BEN MEEN TO DE INB4 LOK"

i get it, humans make mistakes. The members of DE are only human. This is not a topic meant to flame the staff and faculty of DE, because they made Warframe, and it's one of the best games I've ever played. I want them to keep it this way.

2. "LOL N00B WHY ER U TRIN TO MAHK DA GAM EASIER GIT GUD"

This wasn't the purpose of my topic either. It's not about making the game easier or harder, it's about the method they're trying to use to do so, and how I want them to reconsider. There are many alternatives DE can take. This planned method is not a good one. 

[Gremlin]

Whatll happen is just that people will rush through pointless enemies even more. Ill be avoiding bothering with them unless its exterm or defense. No reason otherwise.

[artemisfortune]

I usually go the route of "I have experienced it yet so I'll wait and see" but personally I'd rather see something like Dragon's Dogma where enemies have giant health pools and hitting weakpoints or severing limbs causes them to take massive damage.

[achromos]

10 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

Whatll happen is just that people will rush through pointless enemies even more. Ill be avoiding bothering with them unless its exterm or defense. No reason otherwise.

So much this.  I'd just run (or fly away as titania) from enemies unless I have no choice.  This is NOT good  :C

 

I personally (suprisingly) agree with @JSharpie for this one, Dragons Dogma did it right, weakpoints anyway.  Reward the player by choosing their targets, don't punish them and force them.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, achromos said:

So much this.  I'd just run (or fly away as titania) from enemies unless I have no choice.  This is NOT good  :C

 

I personally (suprisingly) agree with @JSharpie for this one, Dragons Dogma did it right, weakpoints anyway.  Reward the player by choosing their targets, don't punish them and force them.

I feel like I've been villified on these forums.

Really hurts my damn feelings, but yes, Monster Hunter/Dragon's Dogma/God Eater really nailed the weakpoints and DE could take a page from their books.

[Cranial_Enigma]

It's a band-aid fix, and a bad one at it. It is the same situation with the arc traps where no one wanted them and DE wanted people to stop rushing through levels. They started off as broken lights that shocked and blinded you (gave some one a seizure) then they changed them to traps, removed the blind, and the traps killed everyone extremely fast (this was before paying for revives was removed) and would spawn around 5 in the extraction zone murdering newer players and making people never play grineer maps. Then they changed them to have a damage cap so they wouldn't kill newer people that fast.

What do we have today with the traps? An annoying feature that 99% of players either jump/run/ignore past and didn't fix their issue of people rushing through levels.

What direction are they going in with eximus units? The exact same path where people will just ignore/run/jump avoid the eximus units because they are annoying and do not reward the players for anything. (Unless you are missing oberon, you better farm him quickly).

I personally can't see this feature being implemented the way it has been described now, with how ancients work the eximus units would be nearly impossible to kill, especially if you had to deal with multiple ancient healer eximus units with the artic enhancement. There wouldn't be a fun way to kill them and people would just use AOE weapons or the ignis to deal with them.

But until the feature is implemented we do not know for sure, or if it will even be implemented.

[MirageKnight]

So instead of balancing out the mods, weapons, and abilities that are and have been actively trivializing content...the devs are instead going to throw in even more mini bosses with invulnerability phases to disrupt gameplay even further. Just to make a bunch of whiny, vocal try-hards happy.

Oh joy.

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I'd rather see something like Dragon's Dogma where enemies have giant health pools and hitting weakpoints or severing limbs causes them to take massive damage.

See, that makes sense. Hitting a weakpoint so you can do major damage. I'd actually be on board for that. What baffles me is that the devs know that most of us hate Invuln phases - they said it themselves on the last stream. They then turn around and suggest an enemy type that has the very thing most of us don't want.

The level of disconnect is just...astounding.

[Kalvorax]

honestly..the only eximus unit i could see weakpoints on is the parasitic (and the ones like it for the other factions..if there are any?) one....it has so much dang HP that having a weakpoint on it that could have a chance of instantly killing, and/or doing much higher damage than normal, it would be great imo

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

So instead of balancing out the mods, weapons, and abilities that are and have been actively trivializing content...the devs are instead going to throw in even more mini bosses with invulnerability phases to disrupt gameplay even further. Just to make a bunch of whiny, vocal try-hards happy.

Maybe, and hear me out here, that is a very difficult problem to solve and this is a step in that direction to try out some ideas. Perhaps it isn't just a simple thing to uproot an integral part of the game and just "fix it".

[Autongnosis]

Just now, peterc3 said:

Maybe, and hear me out here, that is a very difficult problem to solve and this is a step in that direction to try out some ideas. Perhaps it isn't just a simple thing to uproot an integral part of the game and just "fix it".

Thank you. Someone speaks sense sometimes here \o/

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

See, that makes sense. Hitting a weakpoint so you can do major damage. I'd actually be on board for that. What baffles me is that the devs know that most of us hate Invuln phases - they said it themselves on the last stream. They then turn around and suggest an enemy type that has the very thing most of us don't want.

While i can agree that the kind of implementation we've seen in the stream doesn't strike me as particularly interesting, i would just point to you that most of what we players consider high tier weapon are perfectly able to basically one-hit KO a lv 50-70 enemy under the 90% damage mitigation of the Ancients.
So other than invulnerability phases, how exactly would you make it actually worthwile to shoot the weakpoint without making it so that unless you run with a meta gun you'll be left in the dust?

[Sarge_Tarmus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

I find it quite disappointing that DE would just lazily implement red "weak points" on Eximi that you need to destroy in order to kill them. It doesn't look fun, it looks annoying, and adding invincibility phases to otherwise regularly spawning enemies is bad game design, and it's a step backwards from what I know DE is capable of.

DE is just taking the same crappy mechanics they added to the Kuva Guardians (where they're invincible until hit in a specific way) and adding them to regular entities, and the idea needs to be scrapped.

Expected Responses:

1. "ERMAHGERD STERP BEN MEEN TO DE INB4 LOK"

i get it, humans make mistakes. The members of DE are only human. This is not a topic meant to flame the staff and faculty of DE, because they made Warframe, and it's one of the best games I've ever played. I want them to keep it this way.

2. "LOL N00B WHY ER U TRIN TO MAHK DA GAM EASIER GIT GUD"

This wasn't the purpose of my topic either. It's not about making the game easier or harder, it's about the method they're trying to use to do so, and how I want them to reconsider. There are many alternatives DE can take. This planned method is not a good one. 

With Hema grinding this gonna be bad. On Oro Derelict I was trying to farm m-samples on survival. When Eximus spam came to me, I was able to one-shoot smaller and 2-3-shoot bigger ones on 80 lv. (Hek, explosive status, Justice augment). Eximus changes gonna make this game not more challenging, but more annoying.

[Tekaia]

Every time a new bandaid fix comes in i think about the gameplay in general. It is going worse every time and instead of fixing the real problems there are even more bandaids are coming.

Now imagine DE decides to fix the real problems like weapon dmg and/or armor scaling, in the long run i think all these bandaids will become the new problem.

 

[Damuranashi]

Weakspots are not weakspots if you don't damage the guy when you hit them. Invulnerable phases have to go for good.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Damuranashi

[saltygr33n]

I can see another mass ospray and nullifier, except may be more annoying. It's time to start playing a specific warframe.

Edited February 5, 2017 by saltygr33n

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I don't know why de works so hard to run people off of this game. They force stuff that we don't want down our throats,don't  give us stuff that we do want, and keep destroying our builds,sorry I meant rebalancing our builds. How about balancing the frames out before they release them and fixing all the bogs that really need to be fixed

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, Damuranashi said:

Weakspots are not weakspots if you don't damage the guy when you hit them. Invulnerable phases have to go for good.

To be fair, the only enemy I truly like them on are the Kuva Guardians. If they didn't have them, they'd have utterly ridiculous health pools, making them even more difficult to take down.

Otherwise, yeah, they need to go.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

2 hours ago, JSharpie said:

I feel like I've been villified on these forums.

Really hurts my damn feelings, but yes, Monster Hunter/Dragon's Dogma/God Eater really nailed the weakpoints and DE could take a page from their books.

The only problem I see with that model is, those games usually have the player level and enemy scaling balanced. Or, more balanced. In Warframe, that is not the case. Low and high MR players mix, and high level players could go to a low level map and blast through the, "high hit points" of the Eximus unit for that tile difficulty level. 

The only way around that would be to make Eximus level be asynchronous to the Maps difficulty level. Or they have the same stats everywhere but can be defeated mechanically, regardless of the player level.

 

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

3 hours ago, JSharpie said:

I usually go the route of "I have experienced it yet so I'll wait and see" but personally I'd rather see something like Dragon's Dogma where enemies have giant health pools and hitting weakpoints or severing limbs causes them to take massive damage.

Especially bosses like sergant Sarg

Edited February 5, 2017 by (PS4)CaptainIMalik

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'm concerned too, mainly because it's going to completely change how we fight, and not necessarily in a good way. I'm personally hoping they rethink this idea, because it's just not a good one.

[Friede]

I hope DE doesn't go through with this...imagine having a bunch of Eximus infested running and doing cartwheels all around you while you try to snipe the weakpoint :(

[DeMonkey]

How are launchers going to work? They used to hit the entire body causing every shot to headshot, I know that was fixed but I don't know if they still hit the entire body.

If they do hit the entire body then DE's entire idea is rendered irrelevant by Tonkor/Simulor users, if they don't hit the entire body then they're going to be a nuisance to use.

And if DE's fix for launchers headshotting was simply to stop the damage being dealt to the head what if the weakpoint is on the head?

I don't like the sound of this either, especially for melee.

[Skaleek]

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

How are launchers going to work? They used to hit the entire body causing every shot to headshot, I know that was fixed but I don't know if they still hit the entire body.

If they do hit the entire body then DE's entire idea is rendered irrelevant by Tonkor/Simulor users, if they don't hit the entire body then they're going to be a nuisance to use.

And if DE's fix for launchers headshotting was simply to stop the damage being dealt to the head what if the weakpoint is on the head?

I don't like the sound of this either, especially for melee.

My guess is they won't. This is their fix for synoid/tonkor maybe? Yeah melee is gonna have to ignore this system, because last i checked we dont target melee we just swing in one direction.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Skaleek

[[DE]Momaw]

10 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

So instead of balancing out the mods, weapons, and abilities that are and have been actively trivializing content...

I'm afraid I must agree with MirageKnight. The problem is that players are obscenely overpowered and the only way to make them even stop and notice enemies or interact with those enemies, is to give enemies the ability to ignore warframe powers or damage output. Nullifiers ignore powers, and are for the most part a great addition to the game (it does get a bit silly when there's 4 of them with overlapping bubbles), but people have complained about it so much that now DE is backing down.  I pretty much expect the same situation to play out with eximus enemies.  They have to be invulnerable to stand up to player guns because player guns are too strong relative to the enemies we face. There will be one or two "gimmick" features that break the eximus weakpoint system and everybody will use that. Eventually players will complain so much about it that the change is hamstrung and made irrelevant somehow.

The real solution is a comprehensive rebalance of player firepower and player capabilities, and yet that's never on the table. DE has an extremely scattershot approach to balance in general. The Brakk was rebalanced in a matter of days after it was released, so was Synoid Gammacor, but the Synoid Simulor and Cover Lethality are still out there derping up the game.  Trinity's Bless got fixed to only be "extreme damage resistance" instead of godmode, which was a great change for the game, but Energy Vampire is still out there making a complete joke of the energy economy.  The Scorch enemy finally got rebalanced for fair play so that it doesn't cook your entire team in under a second through a wall, but then they add this John Prodman guy where it's functionally impossible to see him without hardcore exploiting the game's flaws because the enemies have ten million hitpoints and kill you if they touch you with anything.

At this point I don't know where this bus is going, and I am increasingly concerned that the driver doesn't either.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Momaw

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

9 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

My guess is they won't. This is their fix for synoid/tonkor maybe?

I'd prefer the weapons to be nerfed instead of making it so every other weapon has to suffer.

[DeMonkey]

30 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

My guess is they won't. This is their fix for synoid/tonkor maybe? Yeah melee is gonna have to ignore this system, because last i checked we dont target melee we just swing in one direction.

Wouldn't surprise me.