Vali Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) In the recent hotfix, Artax Rivens were removed from the Riven pool, making them impossible to get. The reason given by DE was that regardless of the stats on the Riven it would still output an impractical amount of damage. However with the appropriate stats [namely Fire Rate and Status Chance], an Artax Riven can greatly increase its status/sec, up to ~50% which could provide great utility for high leveled play. I believe Artax Rivens should be re-added, simply because it can make the weapon somewhat viable. Edited February 14, 2017 by Agentawesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neear Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I also feel it should be readded. I mean you can only get the sentinel by completing earth>mercury junction and you don't even have access to rivens at that point. And I thought the point of rivens was to allow more usability to underpowered weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 makes sense to me 1 minute ago, Neear said: I also feel it should be readded. I mean you can only get the sentinel by completing earth>mercury junction and you don't even have access to rivens at that point. And I thought the point of rivens was to allow more usability to underpowered weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 It didnt make much sense to me either. It is weaker than the Deth Machine Rifle because its a beam weapon after all. Even if it was made just for newer players, having the option to try and make it viable would have been nice... even thought I do NOT want to see any kind of Sentinel weapon Riven, the one I got for the Stinger hurt enough! TYVM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)A_SimpleName Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said: makes sense to me which means that we won't see any retraction. Buh bye, Artax Riven. I never had a chance to get you. Also, how long will it be until Artax Riven is worth more than Primed Chamber in trading market? Edited February 14, 2017 by (PS4)A_SimpleName Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, Agentawesome said: In the recent hotfix, Artax Rivens were removed from the Riven pool, making them impossible to get. The reason given by DE was that regardless of the stats on the Riven it would still output an impractical amount of damage. However with the appropriate stats [namely Fire Rate and Status Chance], an Artax Riven can greatly increase its status/sec, up to ~50% which could provide great utility for high leveled play. I believe Artax Rivens should be re-added, simply because it can make the weapon somewhat viable. You don't understand the real reason they did it. That was all PR fluff. Reading between the lines it is clear that they want the weapon to be weak and sucky and don't want people to be getting creative with rivens and finding a way to change that. This was a preemptive nerf. The weapon isn't SUPPOSED to be viable. As [DE]Megan said, it is supposed to do negligible damage. They want it to suck. The PR thing about "it wouldn't help it anyway/smaller drop pool" is just that. PR fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 If you ask me, Sentinel Rivens are pretty stupid in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I would be fine if they re-added them but removed damage stats from the possible outcomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Miser_able said: I would be fine if they re-added them but removed damage stats from the possible outcomes I have a feeling that they (DE) wouldn't be on board with that either. I hate to say it but I think they are going to be more stubborn than the Hema on this. People can still get creative with non-damage stats making it really good at cc. And to be honest I don't think DE ever wanted or intended it to be anything but a little bit of helpful cc for a newbie. They just don't want this gun to be any good for a veteran. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf its cc as well. This is a case of DE saying "look, we made this gun intentionally to be garbage". And so the community took it as a challenge "let's see how crazy good we can make this thing at... something". Because that's just what gamers do. And they kind of succeeded. And that's really not what DE wanted. They wanted it to be trash. So I honestly fear more nerfs for its functionality actually, and don't intend to get attached to it. They really are putting their foot down on this and trying to tell us to stop trying to make it good. Edited February 14, 2017 by Tesseract7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I'll buy an artax mod from anyone willing to sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionntan Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I concur to undo the removal. The reasoning of being "starter" gear doesn't add up. I never seen the beam to be as destructive as for example, Synoid Gammacor Pre-nerf; it felt more like nice niche and fun to use. Isn't possible to also use Rivens on MK1 variants? Edited February 15, 2017 by Fionntan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fe-McHamm3rShot Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 *DE you messed up* How about you let us build the Artax how we choose. It does poop damage and is outclassed by every other sentinel weapon. You taking it anyway was a mistake, now it's the ONLY weapon in the game that is not eligible to mod with a Riven. PLEASE BRING IT BACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lei-Lei_23 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said: You don't understand the real reason they did it. That was all PR fluff. Reading between the lines it is clear that they want the weapon to be weak and sucky and don't want people to be getting creative with rivens and finding a way to change that. This was a preemptive nerf. The weapon isn't SUPPOSED to be viable. As [DE]Megan said, it is supposed to do negligible damage. They want it to suck. The PR thing about "it wouldn't help it anyway/smaller drop pool" is just that. PR fluff. My Tysis with its Riven is honking in protest like the Corrosive Infested Dolphin it is at this comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said: The weapon isn't SUPPOSED to be viable. As [DE]Megan said, it is supposed to do negligible damage. And for what reason exactly? It's not as if new players can get their hands on rivens right after earth. I've read your posts and, they don't want the artax to be good in any way as if that will break the game because it's supposed to be a starter sentinel? What is the lato then? Or the mk1-kunai? Or for braton they could make braton rivens incompatible with the mk1 braton because it isn't allowed to be good? The artax seems to be the only thing removed because, reasons. Now explain that again in a way that this move makes sense. Edited February 14, 2017 by IceColdHawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said: And for what reason exactly? It's not as if new players can get their hands on rivens right after earth. I've read your posts and, they don't want the artax to be good in any way as if that will break the game because it's supposed to be a starter sentinel? What is the lato then? Or the mk1-kunai? Or for braton they could make braton rivens incompatible with the mk1 braton because it isn't allowed to be good? The artax seems to be the only thing removed because, reasons. Now explain that again in a way that this move makes sense. I'm not saying I agree. I am saying how I have interpreted their actions. It seems clear to me that they WANT this thing to be awful. Just... awful. It's like they released the weapon for newbies, and because veterans are trying to make it good anyway, they spitefully replied with a "well, it's not supposed to be good, no more rivens for you!". It's like they just can't get over the fact that despite them saying "it was for newbies", that veterans are still trying to make it useful for sortie and up. As for weapons like the Braton, those weapons do have upgraded versions and so far the Artax does not -- and DE doesn't seem to want to split riven availability based on upgraded/weaker version; for example when the Aklex Prime was released they adjusted the rivens disposition downward instead of excluding one or the other variant. Again, I am not saying I personally agree with the decision, I am playing DE whisperer lol. My point is that the given reason "it won't help anyway" is not the real reason "they are trying to discourage vets from using it" (<Real reason), whether it makes any sense or not. To put it simply, vets are using it anyways when DE didn't want them to, so they are trying to discourage us from doing so. As if it is galling to them that we are defying the fact that it is supposed to be for new kids. Edited February 14, 2017 by Tesseract7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--.Zylux.nVbs.-- Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Tyrian3k said: If you ask me, Sentinel Rivens are pretty stupid in general. The sentinels rivens aren't that stupid when you can get a lot of kills in the sorties (geting some resources and energy while running) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said: To put it simply, vets are using it anyways when DE didn't want them to, so they are trying to discourage us from doing so. As if it is galling to them that we are defying the fact that it is supposed to be for new kids. How dare the evil vets have fun with something other than sweeper prime or vulklok. I get you just want to understand it but, not buying this, sorry. I don't even want to question the logic behind this... People have demanded a removal of sentinel guns eligible for rivens because it felt punishing. Nothing. Artax comes out. No one complained. Gets removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fe-McHamm3rShot Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said: People have demanded a removal of sentinel guns eligible for rivens because it felt punishing. Nothing. Artax comes out. No one complained. Gets removed. ^ um yeah.. The conversation prorb went something like this.. "let's make some fun new content" <"sure"> "how about a cool new sentinel?" <"that sounds like a cool idea"> "how about a new sentinel weapon? It will be the starter weapon and have 6 damage" <"that sounds safe enough for beginners"> "Now let's take away the Riven mod for it, so the vets don't even get a chance to build test it" <"sounds great, now let's go get drunk on maple syrup"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, --I-.Zylux.-I-- said: The sentinels rivens aren't that stupid when you can get a lot of kills in the sorties (geting some resources and energy while running) Yeah, that works with so many of the sentinel weapons. Rivens are there to give players an option to use outdated weapons again, but sentinel weapons don't fit that well enough and players will only use the ones they already used anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said: How dare the evil vets have fun with something other than sweeper prime or vulklok. I get you just want to understand it but, not buying this, sorry. I don't even want to question the logic behind this... People have demanded a removal of sentinel guns eligible for rivens because it felt punishing. Nothing. Artax comes out. No one complained. Gets removed. Shrug. I am not saying I get any joy out of understanding. If my understanding is correct the decision was essentially made out of spite toward veterans who used a weapon DE didn't want them to use. I would hardly say "spite" is a good reason to do anything. Edited February 14, 2017 by Tesseract7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Well.... this would have been a big deal if we couldn't change weapons on sentinels, but we can so... I hear you though. If one was lucky enough to get a fire rate, status chance riven for Artax it could make the weapon do what it was intended to do a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx_mtv_xXx Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Tyrian3k said: If you ask me, Sentinel Rivens are pretty stupid in general. Orly and why is that? Lemme guess lol you're salty over bad rolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Just now, xXx_mtv_xXx said: Orly and why is that? Lemme guess lol you're salty over bad rolls? Already answered that in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 This another example of where the Riven system as it exists is underdeveloped. If the players had more control and options for what stats got rolled up weapons like the Artax would not have to be taken out of rotation. Some weapons just require different stat rolls to be made viable with Rivens... which was the stated intent of them in the first place, to make various under-used weapons viable. If Players could: Use Star Chart resources to lock or select Stat types during a reroll Use Star Chart resources, Blueprints (or fully constructed) of Weapons, and/or Extra Rivens to change a Riven's class (Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Melee) Use Star Chart resources and Blueprints (or fully constructed) of Weapons, and Extra Rivens to change a Riven's type (Braton, Latron, Strun, Paris) This would make the Riven system as whole function better in a future proofed way, as the games meta shifts. It would also create a resource sink that Warframe desperately needs. These costs in Resources do not need to cheap, but having a gradual transformation process helps blunt the RNG pain for people who fall on the bad side of the statistics. In the case of weapons like the Artax, simply removing it cuts off any option for players to investigate utility aspects. It affords players the option of experimenting with non-meta options (again the stated point of the Riven system which isn't really being fulfilled), without feeling trapped into committing limited database space (even with paid slots) to things that may still turn out to be rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidforged Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 "Breathe new life into less powerful weapons." *Adds a less powerful weapon. *Removes applicable riven mod, ensuring no new life will be breathed. Trade chat exploded the moment this hotfix went live. All the heavy-hitters are buying these mods like crazy because they're going to end up being like primed chamber. It went from barely being mentioned to being mentioned more frequently than maiming strike and argon scope. Within an hour of the hotfix, I bought four of these for over a thousand platinum each, some guy even took us up near two thousand in a bidding war. What are they going to be worth a month from now? It's unfair that that decision has been made for us, and that the only people that now have access to a mod specifically for the 'starter baby sentinel' of warframe are the plat-rich. The mod should be included in regular tables or removed from everyone's inventory. This game used to be fair for all players, now with every move DE makes it's turning into a gambling game where the rich get richer and the poor get nothing. If DE are going to stand by such a bullS#&$ system as the Riven system, they shouldn't play god and decide which weapons can and cannot use them. Is that not the entire point of the disposition system? From my perspective it's pretty clear that they have stopped caring to pretend that the riven system is anything more than a platinum sink. Pretty pissed off, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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