[Update 20] Octavia Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)x Deathcraft x]

This post had a valid point.

[SenorClipClop]

Hey there, Tenno.

I've been fiddling around with the Mandachord and I noticed, both in the Mandachord UI and in using the Metronome power in-mission, the Adau melody track feels a bit "behind the beat". The singing voices are great, but it doesn't quite sit into the rhythm of the rest of her powers. It feels to me like the soundclip has a lot of approach at the start of the note, so the attack is just a little behind the bass and percussion. Or it could just be lag or packet loss. I'm really not sure. On some tunes I put the Adau melody on the eighth-note behind where it should be and this seems to make it sound more flush in some places. The discrepancy feels greatest on the last 2 bars.

Is anyone else hearing this, or is it just me?

[JacketUnHoly]

.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Lluminate

[Chewarette]

33 minutes ago, Lluminate said:

So much this. I have seen enemies completely ignore the mallet even when no tenno are in their line of sight. I'm pretty sure Loki's decoy draws aggro harder than mallet does, and that definitely should be changed along with the line-of-sight thing that just makes no sense for a sound-based frame.

Yeah, I tried it in Simulacrum with heavy gunners.

Get Metronome's Stealth, put your Mallet, they will shoot at it. The second you stop being stealthed, you die.

Regarding any change to Octavia, I have the feeling that one of her spells should generate some Healing-on-Time. Metronome probably, that would suit the best.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I'm glad I'm not alone in finding the flat plane damage and the line of sight thing completely ridiculous for a sound based warframe, or that thinks the fact that the mallet and the rollerball don't synergize together is pretty counter intuitive. As for the buffs, I have a really simple solution. Why not let Octavia share her buffs by performing the action? Like, nobody else has to try crouching, or firing in time, or jumping, etc. Octavia pulls off any of these and it just gives her and everyone in the range of the ability the buff at the same time.

[Somethinglurks]

11 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

NOT a setting on Mandachords that mutes the music. That relies on other people to reduce the volume of their music, which many of them won't. This is not a solution to annoying songs or Octavias drowning out music because only a few people will actually do it.

We need our own option, on our end, to mute other Octavias, without muting the game music.

Yes please.

[HalidarSilvercloud]

I have every graphic option on low or off. Octavia's powers make me play the game at 20 fps.

[StarScribe]

I would like to make a feature request related to Octavia warframe:

It would be amazing to have an ability to cycle your music compositions during combat in one way or another, would certainly spice up those long survival/defense/interception missions when playing octavia! :D

Edit: Being able to assign energy color based of your current composition active would also be awesome!

Edited April 4, 2017 by StarScribe

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Spam crouch to become invisible is getting kinda dumb. Also the visuals of Metronome are so freaking bad making my eyes hurt in mere minutes of watching it.

[Xekrin]

Why hasn't this been moved to arts & animation feedback yet?

[Xekrin]

4 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Also the visuals of Metronome are so freaking bad making my eyes hurt in mere minutes of watching it.

You can also forget about any gameplay that requires you to focus attention on enemies below you, such as in sealab tileset with its many staircases.  Impossible to see anything under you.

[Ivan_Rid]

12 hours ago, Xekrin said:

Why hasn't this been moved to arts & animation feedback yet?

Because it is not necessarily a graphics problem, just like the most of warframe FPS drops this one seems to be tied to CPU activity.

[Drufo]

I don't know it it's been already asked, but can we be allowed to change song in mission? 

[LSG501]

Why do people always complain about frame drops without considering it might be down to their hardware not being strong enough to play the game smoothly anymore... as people keep saying, this game is beta (not that I agree on this) and so what was ok yesterday might not be today.

If your pc/laptop or whatever is struggling to get constant 60fps in this game before octavia then with all the new graphics stuff being added to the game the problem isn't so much the game but the fact you want to continue to play on old equipment (dont forget updates to the OS/drivers/software/junk can also slow your system over time).   Minimum specs mean you can run the game, not run the game smoothly, thats what recommended specs are for.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by LSG501

[Coldie93]

Pls do not nerf this amazing frame.

That aside, I do agree that mallet and resonator doesn't synergize well.

What I do is I put down a Mallet, let it get shot to build up damage then put a Resonator to parade that stacked up damage around.  The only problem I have is that with this way, the Mallet will always expire way before the Resonator so my suggestion is:

Why not make the Mallet's duration sync up to the Resonator's when it picks up the Mallet. That way both summons will have the same duration. If this implemented I'm sure people will abuse this and stack Mallet's damage indefinitely.  To avoid this, summoning a resonator or a mallet when a mallet+resonator (resonator carrying a mallet) is around will despawn the mallet+resonator.  This will also solve my problem of throwing a mallet to a good chokepoint, feel good about myself until my forgotten Resonator take the well placed Mallet away to Lalaland

[Xekrin]

Problems

Spoiler

 

• Mallet
  • Attraction is no where near high enough.  If anyone else is around, other players, a specter, you.  No matter how far away, enemies ignore it completely.
  • No base damage - it relies solely on waiting for the enemy to notice it before doing any damage.
  • Doesn't synergize with player input.  You cannot kill anything within its range for fear of the mallet not absorbing damage, if it doesn't absorb damage, it does nothing.
  • Relies on another ability, Amp, to extend its range.  It should not be so dependant, sound should magnify based on environment, affected enemies, or just have a higher base range.
  • Does not synergize well with Resonator, once attached its entire ability to absorb damage is negated as enemies no longer fire upon it.  Relying on enemies outside its range to shoot is absolutely nonsensical.
  • It doesn't absorb alternate damage - throwing it into a sapper ring or infested tarpit does nothing.  Possibly because it floats too high off the ground?  And yet we cannot seem to escape the range of these things by jumping over them.
• Resonator
  • Far too erratic at times - yes its beyond useful thrown into a swarm of enemies, but attracting enemies out of its current range is hit or miss at best.
  • It flounders against enemies spread out, it has no sense of intent and direction.  It does a terrible job of collecting enemies into a group unless they are already in a group.
  • Does not synergize well with Mallet - mentioned above but bears repeating.  Once it collects mallet it distributes only previously absorbed damage and does little damage of its own.
  • Considering her entire kit is about music, structure and patterns, it has none of the attributes associated with such things.
• Metronome
  • Too thick and spam dependent.  Impossible to look through it and since a lot of players utilize jumping, wall latching and/or aiming down at enemies, this is bad.
  • Duration of buffs very short considering the effort required to maintain them.
  • Pattern dependent buffs tend to force you to focus on that alone, doesn't synergize all that well with typical combat play styles much, forces the player to change how they play rather than synergizing with current play style.
• Amp
  • Not much wrong with this one other than I personally really dislike the visual effects of it.

 

Suggestions

Spoiler

 

• Mallet
  • Increase the attraction when deployed by itself.  If thrown right in front of enemies, it should really lower their aggro to whatever their prior target was and get it to focus on the mallet.
  • Give it a base damage, even 1 damage per beat or pulse or whatever, could be enough to redirect enemy attention.
  • Better synergy with Resonator - probably a lot of ideas already floating around on this one but here goes.  
    • It should double resonator damage at least if no previous damage is stored within scaled with power strength
    • Enemies should regain moments of awareness enough to actually fire at the mallet. Melee units should attack if within range, charmed or not.
    • Make it removable with recast, allowing the mallet to drop and absorb damage off charmed enemies.  Possibly a hold to remove, tap to deploy another roller scenario.
  • Lower its deployment height, allow it to accept damage (or a % of it?) of environmental hazards including fire, toxin and enemy based objects like sapper rings and tar patches.  
  • Change its interactions with Amp
    •  Its damage is already potentially infinite, does it really need double from amp (forcing a reliance on it), widen its range a bit maybe.  
    • Have amp drastically increase its attraction range and strength.  
    • Have amp change its damage type, maybe energy color (yes like chroma) could affect this,
    • or better yet just alternate damage types based on its beat or whatever, where certain patterns create specific damage combos
  • Let us deploy more mallets, splitting the Absorption factor between them, with a max capacity of 3 or 5.
  • HIGHER ATTRACTION STRENGTH, not range, just strength of whether enemies notice it when it is RIGHT IN THEIR FACE
  • the more enemies that notice it should increase its strength and possibly range, better yet base it on sound actions (melee strikes, gunfire directed at it) to determine strength and range.
  • Give some interaction with player input, a minor Antimatter drop (very very minor, just to get it started) perhaps, or anything else, suggestions requested.
• Resonator
  • Give it a better AI - structured pattern of deployment that centers around two things, the players general location and if activated, the Amp area of effect.
  •  In fact, considering that both mallet and metronome both rely heavily on their 'beat' (or some other professional music term) it should do so as well allowing us a customized control over its travel patterns in some way.
• Amp
  • Other than Mallet interactions (detailed above) nothing comes to mind other than BETTER VISUAL EFFECTS.

 

 

 

That's all, flame away.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Xekrin

[BansheePrime]

One problem complains about mallet synergizing with amp and the next point complains about it NOT synergizing well with resonator. *facedesk*

Edited April 4, 2017 by maj.death

[Xekrin]

Just now, maj.death said:

*facedesk*

I'm a very complicated person.

[Surby]

Hi, 'd like to point a not really cosmetic problem, I hope someone can help me specify what ability is that.
Problem is the fast movement of circles on the floor towards the middle of circle. It's too fast and just wrong somehow and makes me (and probably some other people too) suffer :(
Causes symptoms of migraine (that said - most probably also epilepsy which is way worse!) very easily. And said that i mean VERY, because even my "normal" friends felt slightly uneasy watching this graphic, while i was already crying my eyes out in suffering after half sortie.
Repeated that just for "statistics" (and more pain, yay, but had to be sure before whining in public), and I am now pretty sure I cant either use this warframe or play with randoms (because they can pick octavia).

PLease consider changing that or possibility to turn it off ("epilepsy mode" :P)

[Medane]

Really, I don't have much of a problem with Octavia.  I'll list some general things that should be easier to implement than recoding the Mandacord because I can only imagine how difficult that might be considering its effects in game. 

First, separate sliders for your own Octavia music and player Octavia music so that people can enjoy their own and others at their own volition; personally never saw it as a problem but more options are better.

I'll express some disappointment at the admittedly god-awful lack of free instruments on Octavia.  For all the potential in creativity she offers, most of the decent audio is frankly locked behind platinum.  I don't mind playing platinum for instruments, but I am disappointed in the initial selection, especially when I consider other players who may acquire her.  The prices aren't anything to sneeze at either.  

Her 1 damage is...ludicrous which I will use/hijack to explain my biggest issue with Octavia.  Now I don't play most other "meta" damage frames but I have never seen scaled damage like that before; 15K ticks on ALL enemies in the AOE, with ticks happening every 1/4 of a second, or faster.  At level 80.  Not only does this completely make Nyx and Ember practically worthless for damage from their core abilities alone (Nyx's 4 and Ember's 4), it's also more energy efficient by a tremendous margin.  I'm not saying that Octavia's 1 needs to be nerfed and reworked; I just think it could legitimately use lower damage (scaling damage is really nice) and that Nyx and Ember need reworks to their abilities to compensate.  Essentially, Octavia's 1 is Nyx's 4 with no continual energy cost, that is more powerful than all of Ember's AOEs and has literally magnitudes of higher potential damage with the addition of passive energy regeneration.  Octavia offers both raw 200% damage amplification buffs (without breaking a sweat) for less energy than it takes for Ember and Nyx to be even marginally effective, and frankly outputs more AOE damage than those two frames could ever do on their own.  The solution however, is to not drastically nerf Octavia's one or make it like Nyx's damage=power consumption.  It's to change other frames to be comparable and equally fun at higher levels.  As it stands, Octavia's one is a gimmick, a fun, entertaining gimmick, but a cheap and ridiculously scaling one at that.  Reduce it's damage to something reasonable (even 35% of its current damage would still be tremendous considering that enemies do not seem to resist Mallet's damage) and consider updating older frames to be comparable, because it absolutely renders Ember and Nyx practically worthless.  Fun in their own ways, but in no way useful in most cases.  The power creep is evident in Octavia and it is absolutely infuriating to play older frames that suffer as a result of balances brought on by the new, more powerful meta in newer frames. This is a shoutout to not balance content around the extremes of a meta as this only results in power creep that leaves older frames simply unfun to play without breaking their themes. Consider buffing older frames drastically before they become ineffective to the point of not being fun.  

Edited April 5, 2017 by Medane

[-BKB-SamuarJoe]

yeah i do play em at 60 fps (uncapped refresh rate - 75 fps), most of the time, except when all the infested AI ganked on me which dropped down 48 fps which is above playability fps which is 30, yeah,  we DO struggle on machine that have fps leak somewhere even updated drivers on it, most of the player base is mid tier machine
so we can't complain something about the FPS leak?

[sulusdacor]

i think octavia is a lot of fun when playing and scales very well into the later game. there are however a few things that i can't get my head around.

first off, please give us an option to mute other octavias, the selfmute is nice, but only works for a part of the problem. it is one reason why currently for teamplay she is a bit of a damper. since i don't know if my squads octavia has her ability muted and i only find that out some time in the mission.

the other thing is about the manacord itself and the whole music mechanic/system. i like it and it is fun to play around, compose some sounds and do your thing. adjust the beat to weapons or the other way around. that said i do not feel it was needed and it is a mechanic that adds a lot to the game. it could have done way easier and probably with lot less time investment on the development side. from the impression i got from the dev stream a lot of time was spend into that feature getting it right, adding it the right way and so on. do not get me wrong i admire the time and passion you guys put into the game, but i can not stop to wonder if not just a few rythms fitting to some different speeds could have done the trick  (or some other simple solution taking less time) and the time could have spend better on adding endgame content or working on other major issues the game has. And we all know these other issues exist and do not go away / get worse with more content. so althrough the manacord is a nice feature to have i feel it side trackes the game/community, by not solving major problems or even taking them on. this might be just an outside perspective and maybe i got the wrong impression here, but i can't help to stop wondering about that when looking at the manacord.

so to the frame itself.

the passive feels a bit out of place, since i feel it does not really show the theme of the frame. i already pointed that out in another post in this thread so nothing more to say here.

the first ability is quite good. it scales super well and is cheap. so it is good, maybe a bit too good for a first ability and i feel a case could be made to switch this with her secound one. since the mallet scales damagewise good and does cc. the resonator damage is negligible and more a cc thing. so i feel it would fit a first abilty more. since msot firsts fall off damage wise and scale as cc later on or some form of utility.

the other thing is maybe an option to not let the resonator pick up the mallet. maybe like the other ai companions, where if i stand near i can press x to switch from follow ot stand. the resonator could have a pick up mallet or not swith option. these could be an option in the options menue itself too. i don't know. but since oth counter each other a bit this option is needed i feel. there should be an incentive to use all her abilitys and not to skip one if you want to use the others. it hurts the frame a bit in my opinion. currently it is 1 or 2 ability. both is a bit of a waste.

moving on to the thrid ability. i feel here are a few issues. frist of i tried a one spacing music version. where every 2nd space has a note. with that the buffs seemed to sometimes come instant and sometimes you try forever and get nothing. so it felt a bit like the traking is a bit screwed with lower higher speed songs. at least i got this impression. maybe my rythm is off too, so not 100% sure here.

the other problem is that this ability feels very very very powerfull (mostly the stealth). which is a good thing on one hand, but i feel the buffs are pretty easy to get. if you match your beat a bit your weapon or otherwise. you get the multishot all the time. so i feel like getting the buffs is no problem with a bit of practice and tinkering with the beat (which is good as i said, don't get me wrong here). so you end up with a permanent multishot + armor buff. to that comes that the stealth buff is very easy to get too. so you get stealth (+ the damage bonus from stealth), the armor buff and the multishot for a 3rd ability. it can be refreshed, so you basiclyy have this on all the time. which i think might be a bit strong considering you have this all the time with no effort at all.

the other thing is the stealth buff. it is longer then the other not toggable stealth in the game (ash, loki). it is refreshable. it can be given to teammates. ash can not even refresh his, even if he has the augment and can give it to the team. yes the others only need the key press not the matching rythm, but as said before this is not a problem and basilcy a non existant requirement in my eyes. to that comes that the "trickster god"(loki) and "assassin"(ash) theme based frames i feel should have a stronger relation to stealth and the mechanic fits them better.  so i feel these should excel in this ability compared to a music/support based frame like octavia. currently octavia does this way better then these. her stealth is longer+ refreshable + free for the team to take. which to her theme should not be the case. on the other side if you cimbine that wiht the armor + damage boost you basiclly have all the time. the third ability is not a support ability anymore. it is more a stealh ability with damage+tank boost. i feel the stealth time of the other frames should be adjusted a bit or octavias a bit. ash definilty needs to have an option to refresh, since i feel it should be a thing, at least with the augment. since non refreshable stealth yes makes you vulnerable,but removes it usefulness in higher content, sicne you die if not stealthed there. so maybe a slight tuning of the stealth times might be in order.

on a note here the armor buff is 35% at max. oberon has a similar thing and the status immunity too. but compared to the plenty other benefits octavia provides with her 3, oberon falls short. so i feel this is another point were her ability are a bit strong. althought in terms of oberon i feel it is more a case of him needing a rework/adjust then octavia being overtuned here.

so now to her 4th ability. it is an aoe, timed damage multiplier ability. which is good, really really good. but again like her three, compared to other options we have in the game it out shines them. at base it give 2x, with max strength it goes up to 7 times the damage (600% bonus). rhino has an aoe, timed damage multiplier, that goes up to 2.5 (150% bonus). duration scaling on both is the same. and yes one is a forth the other one only the thrid ability and with rhino you can run away if you gotten the buff and octavia needs to stay in range. but with some range mods, the range is big and not an issue for octavia. the damage buff is good and does do well, but i feel it is a bit over the top and scales a bit to good. it should be better, but i feel the scaling should be tuned down some bit.

so overall i like and ejoy her kit. there are some issues (1,2 ability conflict) and the scaling i feel should be adjusted (maybe 5-10 secounds less stealth then dedicated stealth frames, and only doulbe the other str buffs at max?). her kit is very versatile. she is baicly a jack of all trades (buffer, stealth, damage dealer). the problem i feel currently is althought she can do all things, she does them way better then frames that usally or in the past excelled in these things. which i think for the music + support theme does not fit her. but maybe it was not intended. so not sure. i feel she is strong and should not be nerved into the ground. the better option would be to bring a lot of weaker frames up in tiers/usability and just slightly adjust the numbers were conflicts are (emphasis on slightly *cough* not tonkor level *cough* ;) ). she is definilty in a good place.

[Ryuurik]

I just started to build Octavia and went to shop check the sounds i could get for it. For my big disappointment there is no sounds, that i would need to put up my favorite track! 

Luckily this would be easily fixed by adding more sounds to purchase.

As an extra, it would be great if we could compose longer tracks, and make longer notes, or atleast combine notes. (Example: Make 2 short 'Mi' notes combined long 'Mi = 'Mii') This could be continued all the way to the end of he entire track!

For example like this: (Just put that to mandachord form)

On 1.4.2017 at 11:58 AM, Ultrahorst said:

I'll let this link here. All Points Bulletin, an extremely customizable third person shooter in 2011 had a perfect example for what Octavia needs. Thousands of Players made music and stuff for their Radios, heard by all players(only the Shooting part of the game sucked ^^)  Thats what I wish for Octavia.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Ryuurik

[LSG501]

11 hours ago, SamuarJoe said:

so we can't complain something about the FPS leak?

You're 'assuming' it's a fps leak and it's not down to your cpu/gpu struggling with the extra graphics effects on top of everything else.  It might be the exact same '20fps' drop you're seeing happens on high end machines too because even high end systems lose some fps on heavy areas (like with infested) but because your fps are low to start with the effect seems worse because as a percentage of your base fps it's a lot higher.

[Sloth45]

The synergy between Mallet and Resonator is badly designed.

Her mallet only deals damage based on how much enemies have shot it. However, when a resonator picks up her mallet, it resets how much damage the mallet puts out, and prevents enemies from shooting it, because enemies are instead charmed to follow the resonator. Accordingly, it does almost no damage whatsoever, which makes putting a mallet in the resonator completely pointless- If the mallet's not going to do anything, then why give them synergy at all?

 

A better mechanic would be this: Since the resonator prevents enemies from shooting the mallet, then a mallet's damage when being carried by the resonator should instead be dependent on the total max health of enemies Charmed by the resonator. That way, the resonator's mechanics don't completely block the mallet's mechanics.

 

And for god's sake make it a direct change to the mechanics and not an augment like you did with Everlasting Ward. Please. Please, DE, do the right thing.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sloth45
Clarification, pleading for DE to do the right thing.