[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[SeaUrchins]

On 03.04.2017 at 7:22 PM, jmthebigman said:

nullifiers say hi...

No, they don't. They say goodbye and die.

Spoiler

 

 

[Muao]

54 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

No, I called you selfish because instead of offering a tweak which makes using Limbo  less problematic with teammates, you offerred Limbo getting outright nerfed so fewer player would use it.

Just admit it, "tweak" you told means nerf I said. I also said I don't care what specific is the adjustment, so.

[Syndrella]

The problem games like warframe the poor or almost non existent balance. Peoples can annoys others by their presence and every frame can be annoying aswell their user. There are multiple ways to play the game and some will play on way what you hate. Soloing and telling peoples not a solution, because the game is supposed to be coop however the game should care equal the single and public players aswell.

Each frame and weapons designed different and that would be awful if everything does the same and deals the same damage this is the only way to balance the stuffs but then everyone will rage out and bore the game because the variety is non existant. 

Limbo now strong and I am agree with tweaks but he shouldn't be nerfed under the ground because now he is useful against few factions. On low and on mid level every warframe mostly can perform doglike the problems coming when peoples want to be hardtry and going up to insane levels because their fun is depend on the hardiness. Others will cry how the game is boring and too easy while others will cry how hard. This is an online community with different ideas and personalities and the devs pretty much never will be able to be good enough for every person.

They reworked limbo which in my point wasn't problematic and there are other frames whom needs more the tweaks but they reworked him now he is more stronger than before and can be use on different mission types aswell. There will be peoples whom wish to nerf things others will call for buffs but the balance is an illusion and a never ending thing in the gaming industry. The pvp is party limited so the balance is means there you can just use few items and drastically reduced powers otherwise the current frames can wipe out each others in no time. As the PVE part I don't mind the buffs and nerfs if they have a stable system behind it because if they have not a stable working background for buffs and nerfs then the whole thread is pretty pointless. 

There are so much broken and half baked systems in game and the devs should focus on these before they adjust changes because far easier to balance things if the system behind it works well. The enemy scaling is a system which not works well, with the rivens they added more powercreep, but the modding system is the same as it was in the begins. Many peoples crying because the game is not enough hard and skillful because there is no skills it is not a platformer or racing game where you should know tricks to bypass or solve things. This is supposed to be a scifi shooter with hordes of enemies and you supposed to be a strong entitant whom decimate them with no time.

Those peoples whom want make harder for others the fun should choose a different game because this one not meeting to their exceptions and pretty much never will be. As I said earlier no dev and no game can be good for equal to all. I would like it to be but if remove the fun content and drasticaly underpowering everything to not be special and not be fun to use it cause more leaves and the game sooner than later will dies.

Old weapons needs some buffs not to be op weapons just to be updated to the content which changed a lot and left behind the older items. Every weapon should be fun to use and not tiered as trash or meta. This also stands to the warframes aswell.

[DinendalMinyatur]

31 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Just want to weigh in and say that you didn't really help your case.

Snowglobe is debateably OP for defence missions, in fact I'd even go so far as to say it's objectively OP. It's stackable and it's casts can be chained in such a way that it never leaves it's invulnerability absorb period and pushes anything that gets inside to the other end of the room.

It removes the objective from play, there's no reason to defend an objective that's untouchable.

Loki, or rather his Invisibility, is also debateably OP for spy missions. Again, it removes the Objective. What's the use in having Cameras and Security guards patrolling if you can press 2 and walk right past them. Ivara is of course worse, her augment removing any danger of failing the vault. You might as well spawn in a room with 3 consoles to hack and get your rewards there and then.

To clarify, I say these 2 are OP because they're powerful enough to trivialise the completion of the objective to such a point that there might as well not be an objective.

Ah I see, they were bad examples, however as I stated being something common is not always OP.

Pre-rework Tonkor and Synoid Simulor were examples for common =OP yes but lets talk about Nidus or Titania. I remember seeing them everywhere on their first release and then gradually they appear to be less common in games. Hell I even see Titania very very rarely.

So Imo, before complaining something is used very frequently we should pay attention to it's release date.

 

8 minutes ago, Muao said:

Just admit it, "tweak" you told means nerf I said. I also said I don't care what specific is the adjustment, so.

Admit what? Lol

I say "Hey guys this cataclysm is broken and stasis disrupts teamplay so I suggest doing this and that"

You say "This frame is broken!! Nerf it immediately. I don't care how do you do it"

Our goals are different, I seek a middle ground for both limbo players and limbo's teammates, you just think about yourself. Also there is a difference between negative criticism and constructive criticism.

 

[LuckyCharm]

With his new skills I'm seeing him played more and I've noticed something very disturbing. He just looks way too good in his bowler hat. He literally shows up other frames that don't have hats. This makes me sad and he needs a reduction in his swag. 

It's either that or buff other frames to the same level of the fabulous meter as limbo is at. Volt needs a fedora. Ivara needs a fruit hat. And Oberon ...needs a flower crown

[Fallen_Echo]

52 minutes ago, Muao said:

Just admit it, "tweak" you told means nerf I said. I also said I don't care what specific is the adjustment, so.

Okay your original statement said nerf him in a way so less players would use it.

You know what get unused in this game? Useless garbage frames and weapons.

Or do you have any constructive or acceptable tweak to this frame what would result in less players want to play it?

[Darkuhn]

8 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

With his new skills I'm seeing him played more and I've noticed something very disturbing. He just looks way too good in his bowler hat. He literally shows up other frames that don't have hats. This makes me sad and he needs a reduction in his swag. 

It's either that or buff other frames to the same level of the fabulous meter as limbo is at. Volt needs a fedora. Ivara needs a fruit hat. And Oberon ...needs a flower crown

laughed so hard 😂 pls "buff" the other frames :)

[Syndrella]

#buffotherframes

[LuckyCharm]

2 minutes ago, Darkuhn said:

laughed so hard 😂 pls "buff" the other frames :)

Somebody had to say it, and with his monacle he's all "Sir? some tea with your death?" He even has the butler tailcoat

[Darkuhn]

Just now, LuckyCharm said:

Somebody had to say it, and with his monacle he's all "Sir? some tea with your death?" He even has the butler tailcoat

Best Nerf Thread for Limbo I've come to read in the past days 👍🏼

[DaftMeat]

[Darkuhn]

@DaftMeat that exactly 😁👍

[Huanthus]

1 hour ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Ah I see, they were bad examples, however as I stated being something common is not always OP.

Pre-rework Tonkor and Synoid Simulor were examples for common =OP yes but lets talk about Nidus or Titania. I remember seeing them everywhere on their first release and then gradually they appear to be less common in games. Hell I even see Titania very very rarely.

So Imo, before complaining something is used very frequently we should pay attention to it's release date.

 

 

yeah probably ppl will go back to other nukers/high dmg dealers such as banshee/spore saryn etc its been a week or 2 for gods sake

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

OP is what we needed here today. You can take my +1 

Edited April 5, 2017 by (XB1)DeluxeKnight831

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

we can discuss this as long as we like, i think it's safe to say cataclysm will be changed regardless, judged from usage statistics alone. (some good suggestions were made already to leave it's basic mechanic intact while reducing spamability)

i'm honestly a bit disappointed in DE. this vitriol ("nerf-mentality" vs. "crutch-brigade") could have been so easily avoided with just minimal effort of playtesting before release, but they obviously didn't even bother in the least. i mean it's basically shield polarize all over again, something they could and should have learned from... now people will inevitably be frustrated by the coming nerf / change.

tbh. that carelessness is just so blatant it's hard not to suspect it to be a calculated move for some hype / plat sales. then again limbo isn't even that hard to farm. i don't know...

just don't get it...

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

#bufffashionframe

[Xardis]

2 things that stasis doesnt stop. Eximus aura effect, for example parasitic still drains your energy. And the other thing, nullifier bouble regeneration. You can try to shrink it to 0 and banish nulli to 1s later see that even with stopped time it managed to regen. Those my big issues with Limbo, if stasis stops time, stop it for everything within the rift.

One more thing about stasis. If you shoot in rift while in stasis and then exit the rift then toggle of stasis bullets dont damage whats in the rift but in the material plane. This needs to be changed too.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Xardis

[DaftMeat]

I actually like the Limbo changes, it was a bit of a learning curve but once I adjusted to his new moves, I find he performs much better than he used to:

1. Start with a Void Dash into Rift
2. Find group of enemies
3. Let them fire a bit, then Void Dash out and Banish them
4. Void Dash in and finish off (you can even use Stasis before hand just to be safe)

Virtual unlimited invulnerability if you're alone in the Rift, with no timer or power cost. Stasis can be used to mitigate enemies fighting back inside the rift. Cataclysm can be used both for CC when paired with Stasis, or as an AOE.

I understand the Banish limitation of same-plane-only, it makes it a bit more of a Risk-Vs-Reward rather than to just spam it with immunity from the safety of the Rift, especially with the new Stasis ability now added. It also makes sense considering the root word means "get rid of" and not "bring back":

Quote

ban·ish

ˈbaniSH/

verb

verb: banish; 3rd person present: banishes; past tense: banished; past participle: banished; gerund or present participle: banishing

1. send (someone) away from a country or place as an official punishment.

   "they were banished to Siberia for political crimes"

   synonyms:

   exile, expel, deport, eject, expatriate, ostracize, extradite, repatriate, transport; More

   antonyms:

   admit, readmit

   • forbid, abolish, or get rid of (something unwanted).

     "it's perfectly feasible to banish the smoke without banning smoking"

     synonyms:

     dispel, dismiss, disperse, scatter, dissipate, drive away, chase away, shut out, quell, allay "he tried to banish his fear"

While I understand people griping about his Roll maneuver being changed to a Void Dash, it didn't take me long to unlearn it. And even when I still make the occasional mistake, it's easy enough to Void Dash to switch planes again.

 

Personally, I only have 2 problems with Limbo now:

1. Stasis is great if you're playing Limbo, but annoying for teammates. If you're trying to rank up your new Ferrox, but are teamed with a Limbo with max range Cataclysm and Stasis running constantly, you are not going to be able to use your weapon of choice. If you didn't bring a melee weapon to the mission (like some Sorties don't allow) this can become troll-bait as well. I'd prefer if Stasis would only stop enemies, not weapons. The bullets could still hit them and kill them, but they don't drop until Stasis ends or they fall out of the Rift.
2. Multiple players using Limbo in a squad can get in each other's way. I use Void Dash to navigate the battle field to pick my fights strategically, but the last time I got into a Public run with a second Limbo they spammed a max range Cataclysm often and I had no more Void Dash damage mitigation as a result. Instead I had to run Status constantly, which the other players complained about (as I note above). Limbo works OK individually, but his squad interactions could still use some tweaking. I also hope that the maximum size of Cataclysm can get re-evaluated, because it is ridiculously huge.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by DaftMeat
Always at least 1 typo

[main_antagonist]

His 4th doesn't scale well against enemies with armour it should scale with 10% of their armour to bring it in line with the other factions and how they take damage from this ability.

Grineer - Kuva Fortress trap mines, and tesla coils seem to damage you while you're in the rift so I'm assuming a few other types of traps do too! I did a sortie on the Kuva Fortress with Limbo and kept dying while I was in the rift anytime a team mate set off a trap near me.

(EDIT) Companions don't get to enter the rift (clientside only bug, does not effect the host or solo players) v

Companions don't enter the rift with you and it seems that the ability to banish your Sentinel doesn't work anymore. IF you are the CLIENT and not the HOST

Edited April 5, 2017 by main_antagonist
Client Side Bug for Companions and the Rift

[Brachion]

Limbo can already nuke enemies with infinite damage scaling. His 4th is already old-Ash-levels of broken.

Companions are brought into the Rift with you.

Traps hurting you is a bug.

[AzoreanEve]

Cataclysm isn't meant to be an AOE nuke anyway. And armour isn't hit points, it works as damage reduction. But if they do that tweak, they need to go and do the same to Equinox.

Kuva traps hurting you is a bug, like a lot of environmental hazards that took months to be fixed so they stopped hurting ppl in the rift.

Your companions always go into the rift with you if they aren't already rifted. So if you dash at the same moment you exit cataclysm then yes, your companion will probably still be in the cataclysm and won't follow you into the rift again.

[main_antagonist]

Just now, Brachion said:

Limbo can already nuke enemies with infinite damage scaling. His 4th is already old-Ash-levels of broken.

Companions are brought into the Rift with you.

Traps hurting you is a bug.

I specifically stated the Grineer don't take as much damage from it.

Seems they fixed it not working for your companions which is a nice discovery :D Glad that got patched in.

I'm going to add footage I just took of 3 factions at level 145 so you can see exactly why he needs a buff to scale with enemy armour because the Grineer take no notice of the damage of his fourth "Limbo can already nuke enemies with infinite damage scaling. His 4th is already old-Ash-levels of broken." is not correct and you'll see what I mean after you watch the video.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I'm nuking maps with less than 100% power strength. I have no idea what you're on about. Use corrosive projection and mod weapons for corrosive. That works perfectly fine.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Wyrmius_Prime

[AzoreanEve]

1 minute ago, main_antagonist said:

I specifically stated the Grineer don't take as much damage from it.

Seems they fixed it not working for your companions which is a nice discovery :D Glad that got patched in.

I'm going to add footage I just took of 3 factions at level 145 so you can see exactly why he needs a buff to scale with enemy armour because the Grineer take no notice of the damage of his fourth "Limbo can already nuke enemies with infinite damage scaling. His 4th is already old-Ash-levels of broken." is not correct and you'll see what I mean after you watch the video.

The problem isn't Limbo, it's the armour scaling. Every single warframe has the issue of abilities working better for Infested/Corpus than Grineer, unless said abilities do finisher damage.

[main_antagonist]

2 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I'm nuking maps with less than 100% power strength. I have no idea what you're on about. Use corrosive projection and mod weapons for corrosive. That works perfectly fine.

And then solo?