Harrow feedback and discussion

[TheKingofChaos]

So far i like harrow and the recent dev stream has fixed most issues i had with him... and brought up another one (tho a little smaller than the others). His second, from the description, it sounds like the team heal is a percent of harrows damage (and i'm still unsure if the other buffs are given or if only harrow gets 'em). i don't really like this. i would rather lose my shields for the full duration and everyone get life strike than have the heal be based on my damage. :/

other than that, i am a little worried about the range of his third, and also how the crit buff works on his fourth. is it additive or multi? i would really prefer a buff that equally help everyone than a buff that helps some...

[Drasiel]

Until he's in our hands it's hard to really say what it will feel like playing him and everything seen on the devstream is still subject to change (one might say almost guaranteed to change based on previous frames).

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, TheKingofChaos said:

So far i like harrow and the recent dev stream has fixed most issues i had with him... and brought up another one (tho a little smaller than the others). His second, from the description, it sounds like the team heal is a percent of harrows damage (and i'm still unsure if the other buffs are given or if only harrow gets 'em). i don't really like this. i would rather lose my shields for the full duration and everyone get life strike than have the heal be based on my damage. :/

other than that, i am a little worried about the range of his third, and also how the crit buff works on his fourth. is it additive or multi? i would really prefer a buff that equally help everyone than a buff that helps some...

Megathread for all of this discussion: 

 

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, (PS4)cnemesis03 said:

I though wukong was a monk, because of the whole monkey master theme

You know, someone mentioned this to me sometime after I left this comment. (I had Wukong but I didn't like him, so I hadn't even finished leveling him.) I'm having a good time with Wukong asa monk-style kind of melee fighter. But someone else with a dash would be excellent.

[Evanescent]

5 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Can't wait to see 8 Harrow Raid flagellating themselves.

in pink ^{with little children inside them}

[PsiWarp]

1 hour ago, TheKingofChaos said:

So far i like harrow and the recent dev stream has fixed most issues i had with him... and brought up another one (tho a little smaller than the others). His second, from the description, it sounds like the team heal is a percent of harrows damage (and i'm still unsure if the other buffs are given or if only harrow gets 'em). i don't really like this. i would rather lose my shields for the full duration and everyone get life strike than have the heal be based on my damage. :/

other than that, i am a little worried about the range of his third, and also how the crit buff works on his fourth. is it additive or multi? i would really prefer a buff that equally help everyone than a buff that helps some...

Well we'll see. In Second Stream 14 Pablo described Penance as "Life Strike in your Affinity Range" while Devstream 93's ability description specifically points toward Harrow being the one to do the healing, with the reload speed and fire rate buffs being Harrow's alone... at least in that context. Need to test it out first.

Since Harrow's gonna be doing headshots and War Pact deals in critical damage, alongside mention of revising Red Crits into Orange Crits and Red Crits (new Red Crits being Harrow's thing), I don't think you have to worry much in the damage department.

[texrei]

13 hours ago, residente said:

She only hurts. The music you can make with the Mandacord is terrible, gives me second hand embarassment when I hear it from another player.

Meanwhile the Simon says room in Lua where you get one of her parts has some of the most beautiful sounds I've heard in a videogame.

Well, i've stolen Michael Jackson's Billie Jean remake from one youtuber and it sounds very decent. Imagine the whole squad bleeding and dying and hordes of enemies attacking, while listening MJ, it's something

[Redthirst]

On 5/28/2017 at 9:07 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said:

They changed ability so that normal non-headshots grant energy and Headshots grant bonus (more) energy.

Sadly, the kill still being a requirement for energy replenishment means he will not scale like Trinity. High Level Ancient Healer Auras (lvl 200+)will drastically show that Trinity does a far better job than Harrow for energy replenishment.

Hoping they lose the kill requirement. (I still think it should function more like We'll of Life where there is a Damage Conversion limit but per target for the ability duration. Aka so much damage from shots only grants a Max of X energy per enemy)

Would still promote killing enemies as you would run out of Energy sources unless you recast the ability.

He will never be better than Trinity at giving energy. It doesn't matter how much energy he can restore, EV Trinity eliminates the need for energy entirely, there's no topping that.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

6 hours ago, Redthirst said:

He will never be better than Trinity at giving energy. It doesn't matter how much energy he can restore, EV Trinity eliminates the need for energy entirely, there's no topping that.

I concur.

I was looking more at the possibility of near Side-grade*

Like a weapon with Punch-through and Harrow's ability dealing Object-Type damage-to-energy conversion 

High-powered weapon or Rapid-fire granting something like 75 (125 headshot)energy per enemy-cap (Punch-through allowing a Hallway to be massive energy-farm/leech)

But I also suggested in another thread, that perhaps We'll of Life and Energy Vampire getting mechanics swapped would be better balanced for other support frames while also encouraging players to use all 4 of Trinity's abilities. (Players would have to individually attack the Energy Well Target in this scenario...rather than passively benefit from Trinity doing the work to give them energy)

[Redthirst]

8 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I concur.

I was looking more at the possibility of near Side-grade*

Like a weapon with Punch-through and Harrow's ability dealing Object-Type damage-to-energy conversion 

High-powered weapon or Rapid-fire granting something like 75 (125 headshot)energy per enemy-cap (Punch-through allowing a Hallway to be massive energy-farm/leech)

But I also suggested in another thread, that perhaps We'll of Life and Energy Vampire getting mechanics swapped would be better balanced for other support frames while also encouraging players to use all 4 of Trinity's abilities. (Players would have to individually attack the Energy Well Target in this scenario...rather than passively benefit from Trinity doing the work to give them energy)

That's actually how Energy Vampire used to work. You mark the target, and damage done to it is converted to energy for whoever dealt the damage. Except unlike current Well of Life it didn't increase target's HP.

Overall, Harrow can be a sort of a side-grade that provides buffs in exchange for worse energy regen, but I'd still rather see EV nerfed. That's one of the most broken abilities in the game. Although even without it our energy system is quite broken.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

5 hours ago, Redthirst said:

That's actually how Energy Vampire used to work. You mark the target, and damage done to it is converted to energy for whoever dealt the damage. Except unlike current Well of Life it didn't increase target's HP.

Overall, Harrow can be a sort of a side-grade that provides buffs in exchange for worse energy regen, but I'd still rather see EV nerfed. That's one of the most broken abilities in the game. Although even without it our energy system is quite broken.

Yeah I was thinking it (Energy Vampire)was changed soon, that would allow other Frames to somewhat compete in the Support area.

Making it where Her 1st ability is the damage dealing AoE pulse and her 2nd Ability only marks a target but other players have to damage target to receive energy, would allow other Frames a chance to compete at support.

 

I am a little worried players may just use Harrow for the CC lockdown plus God-mode with Larger headshot multipliers.

Only utilizing Energy Regen as bonus ability.

Like how it seems the community prefers to only use Trinity for Energy battery and burst heal. Even though a Trinity can stack her DR abilities and use a weapon to outright kill an EV target to still provide Burst Energy.

(DE giving Phoenix Renewal a 90sec cool down but letting Blessing be a spam-able 100% Heal and status cleanse on a frame that basically has infinite energy...How are other support frames going to compete.)

Even if they changed Trinity - she would still be on top as her kit is that good. Duration Abating Link builds with Energy Vampire (or proposed Energy Well) would still be Strong. 

Now if they add Armor removal, even as an Augment, on Harrows Thurible (energy Regen)  that might going towards the same Overpowered energy Regen.(If other players don't outright kill everything 1st 😋)

[_Eclips3_]

Whelp, its been a while since Harrow was first announced, he is still not out and I'm sure many people are getting triggered, DE sure like to take their time, probably saving it for Tenno-con next month, not to mention they cancelled Dev stream 94 with Harrow details. I guess its goodbye warframe, until there's finally a proper update with a warframe, I'm leaving this game, maybe announce a new frame a few days before release and release a quickly made one during this time to not agitate people

[Miser_able]

No concrete date but we do have this. 

http://www.pcgamer.com/take-a-first-look-at-warframes-completely-revamped-earth-maps/

Also they didn't cancel the devstream, it was just moved to this Friday. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Miser_able

[aligatorno]

2 minutes ago, XxElite2015xX said:

Whelp, its been a while since Harrow was first announced, he is still not out and I'm sure many people are getting triggered, DE sure like to take their time, probably saving it for Tenno-con next month, not to mention they cancelled Dev stream 94 with Harrow details. I guess its goodbye warframe, until there's finally a proper update with a warframe, I'm leaving this game, maybe announce a new frame a few days before release and release a quickly made one during this time to not agitate people

According to PC Gamer's article, it should release later this month. We were supposed to know last friday, but the Devstream was delayed till this friday so we`ll get a confirmation in 2 days. 

[_Eclips3_]

Just now, aligatorno said:

According to PC Gamer's article, it should release later this month. We were supposed to know last friday, but the Devstream was delayed till this friday so we`ll get a confirmation in 2 days. 

Oh well, thx for telling me though xD

[_Eclips3_]

2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

No concrete date but we do have this. 

http://www.pcgamer.com/take-a-first-look-at-warframes-completely-revamped-earth-maps/

Also they didn't cancel the devstream, it was just moved to this Friday. 

Awesome, thx

[PrVonTuckIII]

Devstream 94 is planned for this Friday. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[_Eclips3_]

1 minute ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Devstream 94 is planned for this Friday. 

 

Awesome! hopefully we get a release date this Friday xD

[redeyedtreefrog]

First, they will not be savin gharrow for tennocon. If they were, they would have kept a tight lid on all information about him. They are also releasing a feature which will both radically change the gameplay and be the keystone to harrow's gimmick: shield-gating (harrow is a shield-based tank, but shields can never be as good as health until shield-gating exists). I believe we all want shield-gating to work properly on launch, instead of breaking the game. Also possibly planned for release alongside harrow is the earth remaster and gun-and-blade wielding. In short; harrow is a big update. I've been waiting for my tenno pump shotty since long before harrow was announced, but you don't see me bashing the devs (well, maybe not properly bashing them--but a little play-bashing never hurts). Oh, on the topic of the tenno pump shotty, that may also be released with harrow (warframes have always shipped with two weapons in the past, and so far we've only seen one, his signature pistol.) In short; it's gonna be a big update. DE has set a record by going almost a week with no hotfixes after an update, perhaps they want to get a streak running of successful-on-launch updates. 

[NightmareT12]

Seeing the trend of this I guess they have in mind a release date of next week -- they announce it this week, next Wednesday/Friday it hits, and then they can breathe some fresh air till TennoCon.

[Madway7]

Just now, NightmareT12 said:

Seeing the trend of this I guess they have in mind a release date of next week -- they announce it this week, next Wednesday/Friday it hits, and then they can breathe some fresh air till TennoCon.

The fresh air of feedback and bug fixes

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Madway7 said:

The fresh air of feedback and bug fixes

It's fresh! Fresh I say!

[kaliazane]

I'd say last week was the perfect date to release it.

[Wrum]

5 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

It's fresh! Fresh I say!

A FRESH PILE OF POOP!

[PrVonTuckIII]

22 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Snip

What exactly were you trying to say? The OP wasn't really bashing anyone.